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Music.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the self-initiative project podcast,

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i’m your host jim o’brien hey so welcome to episode 24.

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You know today is a pretty exciting day this podcast is our 24th and it’s two

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years of doing podcasts now one a month for the last 24 months so pretty exciting

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and today my guest is ben powell from bullseye indoor range and gun shop in

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Lawrenceville, Georgia. How are you, Ben?

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Hey, how’s it going? Good, good, man. I appreciate you doing this with us.

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I think it’ll be a good chat.

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Today, we’re going to be talking about how to purchase a firearm and what to

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expect. So that’s a pretty important topic.

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Important topic for a number of reasons, eh? For anyone new just getting into

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purchasing firearms, hopefully give them some helpful information.

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And while we’re talking about it, you know, hopefully dispel some of the myths

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that float around, especially in the anti-gun community or otherwise,

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just some misknowledge, I guess, bad information out there.

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So yeah, it should be a good one.

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So yeah, absolutely. I’ve been looking forward to this one for a few weeks now, for sure.

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So before we get into it, just we like to talk when we have guests on,

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talk about them, their background, who you are, where you came from,

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how you got into all of this?

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Yeah. So, yeah, my name is Ben Powell.

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I’ve been in the gun industry for 15 years now, and I’m only 31.

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So that means I’ve been doing it since I was 15 years old. I’ve been in the gun industry.

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Now, when I was 15, I wasn’t doing everything I am now, and I wasn’t allowed

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to do a lot of the stuff at the gun shop. But at that point,

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I was almost like a janitor, I guess.

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So, right. But so, yeah, I’ve been doing it for 16 years.

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I mean, I love every minute of it. I’m a part owner of the shop. Me and my family own it.

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Me and my dad and my three brothers, we all work there.

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And, you know, we love it. So, yeah, we’ve been open since 1991.

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Wow. And, yeah, so I’m coming up on 30 years here now.

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Like I said, I’ve been there since 2004, so right after the assault weapons

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ban went on the flight, that’s how I remember it.

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But, yeah, we love it, man. We do a great job over there. We have a lot of fun.

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We try to have some personality at our shop, too, you know. Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely helps with sales, too. And I think your shop has a great reputation

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and the prices are good and all of that good stuff. So I always enjoy going

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in there. But we wanted to talk.

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Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, today we wanted to talk about purchasing a

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firearm, purchasing a gun and what all is involved with that and kind of like

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what people can expect and what the process is like and all of that.

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So I guess we’ll just start with, you know, what’s involved with buying a firearm?

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What’s involved with buying a rifle?

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How old do you have to be? What’s involved? What’s the paperwork?

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You know, buying a pistol, how old you have to be? What’s involved there?

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If there’s any differences and then kind of go from there, I guess.

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Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, when you come into a shop, you know,

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basically you need to, you know, you just come in and you fill out what I think

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it calls a Form 4473, which is just, you know,

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we’ll ask you your general information, like name, address, and then ask you

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to answer yes or no to some questions and whatnot.

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You fill out one of those. And so you do need to typically, so there are,

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this is, I’m going to speak for Georgia specifically because that’s where my

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experience is from and that’s where, you know, we’re,

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located here so for us in Georgia you know

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we we have it pretty easy it’s not too difficult to to purchase a firearm and

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so you know as far as there’s restrictions I mean so yeah you have to be 18

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to buy a rifle or shotgun and 21 to buy a handgun and so when you come into

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a shop and you’re ready to uh ready to purchase you know.

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The one thing that we try to do, so a lot of people, a lot of shops in general

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will be very specific on what they recommend.

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For me, like, and for us at the shop, we try to get as much information from

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the customers to see what you need, what you’re trying to use the gun for.

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Because, you know, every gun is going to be different for different purposes.

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You know, people ask me all the time, like, oh, what’s your favorite gun?

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Well, it depends on my situation, you know. You know, like what I’m doing,

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if I’m carrying a gun all the time, you know, I don’t want something that’s going to be huge.

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But also when I’m target shooting, shooting the bigger guns are going to be more comfortable.

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And the reason is because the bigger guns are going to have less recoil and

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easier to control and more accuracy than the smaller guns.

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The smaller guns tend to have more recoil to them. And I consider those,

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they’re not fun to shoot, you know.

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They’re necessary guns to own and necessary to carry, but they’re not one you’re

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like, hey, I can’t wait to go shoot 100 rounds through this little .380 pocket

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gun because that’s going to have some snap to it.

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But I do still recommend a lot of those guns to people depending on who they are.

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But I think the big thing with purchasing a gun is finding one for your particular

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needs and for you as a person because everybody’s hands are a little bit different.

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That will feel good to me, may not feel good to you.

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So the big thing we try to do is get a lot of information from them on what

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they are looking for in the handgun so we can kind of direct them to a specific

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gun that will fit their needs. Yeah.

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Yeah. And that’s a good point. You know, yeah, that’s a really good point.

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And a lot of times, you know, folks will walk into a gun shop,

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no, not knowing maybe it’s their first time, or maybe they’re just looking for

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something new and they ask advice, you know, what should I get?

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What do you like? What, what should I buy today?

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And it’s better just to try to figure out what works for you.

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You know, I tell people all the time, try renting, try renting as many things

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as you can and get your hand on there. See how the recoil works for you.

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See how it fits your hand how the trigger pull works all

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of that good stuff yeah definitely i

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think shooting the gun is going to be the

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best way to figure out what you like but

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you know that also means you know knowing what

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to expect like if you buy one of those small guns don’t

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expect it to be the smoothest best shooting

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gun you ever shot because it just won’t be you know and it’s

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one of the things where it’d be nice if you get the tiny

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pocket gun that holds 15 rounds but that’s just not

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a possibility right not yeah it’s not physically possible

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you know so but yeah i think knowing what to

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expect is a big thing i mean

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so going to shoot is the best way to do that and

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i will 100 all the time say

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get training yeah possibly even

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before you purchase a gun and i know i’ve looked

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into several of your podcasts where you talk about training and

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it’s just so essential to being

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prepared and knowing what kind of gun you

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want also what kind of gun for different purposes you might you might want so

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i always recommend take a class before purchasing a gun that way you’re making

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an informed decision not just buying on impulse buying because it looks cool

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buying because fits in your hand well.

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Although those are somewhat important things, the main thing is knowing how

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to control the gun, getting something for your needs in particular.

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Yeah, absolutely. And putting safety first and that’s an important part of that training too,

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especially if you’re just new to the firearms industry and looking for something

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or buying on a panic impulse based on whatever’s going on in the government or otherwise.

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Circling back to the paper, kind of like the way things are right now, right? Exactly.

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Circling back to the paperwork for just a minute, the form 4473.

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So you got to be 18 to buy a rifle or shotgun and 21 to buy a pistol.

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And everyone’s got to complete that form. So let’s talk about that for a minute.

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I know one of the things that on the form asks for is your social security number,

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But you’re not required to provide your Social Security number correct.

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Correct. Yeah, it is an optional thing. You know, the only time I’ll recommend

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that you put your social security number is if we have to do a background check.

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And that’s just so they can narrow down who you are.

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It might not take so much time for them to come back with the correct background.

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And it can help them, you know, again, like I said, narrow down who you are

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so they don’t get you confused with somebody else that may have a similar name to you.

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Yeah, and that’s a good point. So most anyone coming in to purchase,

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unless they have a concealed carry permit or a concealed carry weapon permit

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like we have here in Georgia, everyone’s got to go through a background check, right?

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Assuming they’re purchasing legally in a store. Everyone’s got to,

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you know, when they fill out the paperwork, you guys get on the phone and call,

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don’t you, right there on the spot?

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So, yeah, we can do it a couple different ways. So, you know,

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when we do a background check, they do have a website. site we can do it through,

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which is primarily what we like to use because it’s better time-wise.

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It doesn’t take so long to do the background check.

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And it allows you to do multiple things at once that you need to.

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But yeah, everything requires a background check.

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The only thing that I would say doesn’t is if you have a concealed weapons permit

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in Georgia, that lets you go around having to go through that background check.

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So, you know, again, I always recommend anybody that purchases a gun or owns

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a gun, get a carry permit.

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Not that you’re going to carry it everywhere you go, even though I may recommend that. Right.

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Not that you’re going to necessarily carry it everywhere. But even for the simple

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fact that if you get pulled over and it’s in your car.

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It lets the officer know that, hey, you know, this guy or this lady is a law-abiding gun owner.

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And that kind of maybe puts their mind at ease a little bit,

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you know. And it’s just something good to have.

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Again, it allows for a quicker purchase.

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But it also is something, you know, you never know when you’re going to go through

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an area that you’re like, you know what, I need to have something on my side. Yeah.

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So I would highly recommend that as well. So, but yeah, pretty much a background

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check on everybody. There is no, as the liberal media like to say, gun show loophole.

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There is no gun show loophole. As bad as they want there to be one,

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because even at gun shows, they have to run background check.

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If they’re a business, they got to run a background check.

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Yeah, if they’re a business, everyone still has to do that paperwork,

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right? There is no real loophole.

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Nope. Nope. You don’t have, yeah, everyone has to fill that out.

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There is no gun show loophole, like they say, for sure.

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And I want to talk more about that. But just to finish up on the primary paperwork,

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I know, so if you have your CCW, you’re good, and you can skip the immediate background check.

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But you also have to have a driver’s license either way. Are there any other

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forms of ID that will let you purchase?

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Or what is the rules and regulations around the ID outside of a CCW?

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So, yeah, you need a driver’s license. with your current address,

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that seems to be a big problem sometimes. People don’t tend to update their

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license to their current address.

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So you would need your driver’s license with the current address or basically any photo ID.

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Government-issued photo ID with your address on it and an expiration date will

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work, which driver’s license is going to be one of the only things that applies there,

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considering, you know, passports not going to have your address on it, things like that.

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So, yes, but if you don’t have your current address on your driver’s license, you can still purchase.

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You would just need something government-issued with your current address.

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So it would have to have your name and your address on it. I mean,

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it would have to be government-issued.

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So like a tax document or car registration or something like that would work

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for that in that case. Yeah.

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And so, yeah, good stuff there, because that helps, you know,

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when you come into the shop and you’re looking to buy, you know,

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here’s some things that you can just expect. Waiting periods.

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Where are we here in Georgia with waiting periods? It doesn’t seem like anyone

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has to really wait anymore.

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Is there any instances where there is a waiting period in place?

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So there’s not like a set waiting period, but when we do a background check,

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they can either tell us three different things. So they can tell us,

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you’re proceeded, you’re good to go, you can take the firearm home that day.

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And they can tell us that you’re denied so that you can’t buy the gun that day.

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And they can also tell you delayed. So what they do in a delayed situation is

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they have to, they give you basically three days, not including the day that

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you do the background check or the day that you can pick it up.

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So basically five days is like the most you would have to wait.

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So the five days is basically…

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A little period where you can, you know, they’ll either call us and let us know

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that you’re proceeded or if they have to come back with a status within those

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five days or you can legally come get the gun.

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So that’s really the only waiting period that you’re going to have.

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You know, when purchasing a standard firearm, you know, class three items is

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a little different. But when purchasing a standard handgun, long gun,

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rifle, yeah, there’s no official waiting time or anything.

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Now, in a situation like we’re in right now with the coronavirus,

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the COVID-19 stuff going on, they have kind of changed that because of the possibility

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of having to shut the government down.

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So that has changed a little bit here right now. But in the 16 years I’ve been

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doing this, that’s the only time I’ve ever seen it. It may even be the only

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time in history that they test, but they do normally.

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I would say 85% of the time, they come back with a status within a few days.

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In the case of if you’re not a U.S. citizen, they are usually delayed.

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I don’t know if I’ve ever done a background check on someone that is not a U.S.

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Citizen that didn’t have to wait. And that’s a pretty standard thing Or again,

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if you’re not a U.S. citizen Sure.

00:15:29.162 –> 00:15:35.042
So talking more about this gun show loophole myth, I was just having this conversation

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with a buddy of mine the other day up in Chicago. He’s up in Chicago, actually.

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And so he was talking about, you know, that’s one thing where there needs to

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be some things in place. And I’m like, wait a minute.

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There is no gun show loophole because any business present at the gun show selling

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firearms has to have you complete that same form and go through the check process.

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Just like if you walked into a gun shop.

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But I do think, and I don’t know what percentage of time it happens,

00:16:04.902 –> 00:16:11.042
I suspect some, but not a lot, there are sales between private individuals, right?

00:16:11.182 –> 00:16:16.102
Like I’ve got this really cool pistol that you’ve been wanting me to sell to

00:16:16.102 –> 00:16:19.582
you for a while, and I can do that. And I can do that at home,

00:16:19.622 –> 00:16:21.362
or I can do that out in the parking lot.

00:16:21.722 –> 00:16:25.582
And for that matter, I can do it out in the parking lot while at a gun show,

00:16:25.582 –> 00:16:29.962
But that’s a sales transaction between two private individuals.

00:16:31.122 –> 00:16:36.102
Right, exactly, yeah. So, yeah, if you are selling a gun to a private individual,

00:16:36.102 –> 00:16:41.042
you legally do not have to do any paperwork per se.

00:16:41.322 –> 00:16:44.542
Now, that’s not necessarily what I’m recommending, you know.

00:16:44.642 –> 00:16:50.122
Sure. I have sold guns to friends and people I know, and my biggest requirement,

00:16:50.302 –> 00:16:54.422
especially if I’m not, I don’t know the person, is that they would have to have

00:16:54.422 –> 00:16:58.962
a carry permit, which is the same requirement that a gun shop would have, you know?

00:16:59.242 –> 00:17:03.562
Yeah. So to me, to be able to take it home without a background check.

00:17:03.782 –> 00:17:07.702
So to me, you know, I would say, you know, you do want to do your due diligence

00:17:07.702 –> 00:17:11.622
because if you sell a gun to somebody that’s not legally able to purchase a

00:17:11.622 –> 00:17:14.722
gun, that is on you and you are liable for that.

00:17:14.882 –> 00:17:19.402
So it is, it’s not like you’re, it’s not like you’re scot-free if you can just

00:17:19.402 –> 00:17:23.902
sell as many guns as you want to anybody you want and have no repercussions, you know?

00:17:24.162 –> 00:17:29.402
Yeah. So yeah, although there is, you know, there is a way to sell a gun without

00:17:29.402 –> 00:17:32.822
a background check being done through private individuals only.

00:17:33.042 –> 00:17:36.542
Yeah. It’s not like you’re, you’re scot-free if you sell it,

00:17:36.622 –> 00:17:39.362
you sell it to whoever you want, you know? Right.

00:17:39.862 –> 00:17:44.182
Yeah. And that’s a good point, which I don’t think a lot of people realize because

00:17:44.182 –> 00:17:49.082
I’ve got a who buys and sells, you know, he’s not flipping guns per se,

00:17:49.102 –> 00:17:54.082
but he has bought several that he just turns around and sells to private individuals.

00:17:54.402 –> 00:17:58.462
And he does go through the due diligence.

00:17:58.822 –> 00:18:03.982
Like I’m pretty sure he gets a copy of their driver’s license and he’s got some

00:18:03.982 –> 00:18:07.522
kind of basic short form that he has them sign saying, you know,

00:18:07.582 –> 00:18:09.782
they’re not felons or anything like that.

00:18:10.771 –> 00:18:15.911
That extra step, that extra precaution in place, A, it’s going to make someone

00:18:15.911 –> 00:18:22.391
hesitate if they know they shouldn’t be buying firearms if you ask them to complete

00:18:22.391 –> 00:18:24.571
that paperwork as a private individual.

00:18:25.251 –> 00:18:29.651
And two, it’s kind of CYA paperwork, too, because as I understand it,

00:18:29.791 –> 00:18:33.711
since the firearm was originally in your name, in other words,

00:18:34.051 –> 00:18:38.091
you know, it’s on the 4473 form if they wanted to go back to the shop and look

00:18:38.091 –> 00:18:42.091
it up, you’re really the first person that they’re going to inquire with should

00:18:42.091 –> 00:18:45.351
anything happen and that firearm get used in a,

00:18:45.611 –> 00:18:51.111
you know, in the commission of a crime or in an illegal act, whatever it is.

00:18:51.111 –> 00:18:56.871
My understanding is, you know, the original owner of the firearm is the first one questioned.

00:18:57.151 –> 00:19:01.191
And then it’s up to you to prove, no, no, I haven’t had that gun for the last

00:19:01.191 –> 00:19:06.111
six months. I sold it and here’s the proof of that, that sell.

00:19:07.031 –> 00:19:10.471
Right. So, you know, that’s another myth I would say is that,

00:19:10.731 –> 00:19:16.891
you know, you just because you, just because you sell or just because you purchased

00:19:16.891 –> 00:19:18.611
a firearm from an individual.

00:19:18.991 –> 00:19:24.031
Yeah. or just because you sell a gun to an individual doesn’t mean that it’s

00:19:24.031 –> 00:19:27.051
not required for you to do your due diligence.

00:19:27.331 –> 00:19:32.811
So what happens is if a firearm is found or reported stolen or found stolen

00:19:32.811 –> 00:19:40.431
or was using a crime, what they do is they go to the APF or the whatever police agency.

00:19:40.631 –> 00:19:44.971
What they do is they go to the manufacturer of the firearm and they say,

00:19:44.971 –> 00:19:47.811
hey let’s say Glock who did

00:19:47.811 –> 00:19:50.531
you sell this Glock 19 to and they say oh

00:19:50.531 –> 00:19:53.231
well we sold it to Bullseye Indoor Range and

00:19:53.231 –> 00:19:56.391
Gun Shop in Lawrenceville and yeah and so they

00:19:56.391 –> 00:20:01.151
come to us and say okay Bullseye who did you sell this to and then we have to

00:20:01.151 –> 00:20:06.611
give them the paperwork saying we sold it to Jim and they you know that’s how

00:20:06.611 –> 00:20:12.311
they do their due diligence so then you would need to provide some sort of accurate

00:20:12.311 –> 00:20:14.411
depiction of where that gun went, you know.

00:20:14.611 –> 00:20:19.491
And that’s why I would always recommend you do a bill of sale and you have a

00:20:19.491 –> 00:20:23.631
record of the guns you have owned and sold just in case.

00:20:23.911 –> 00:20:26.311
You never know what’s going to happen.

00:20:26.651 –> 00:20:29.891
Like I said, even if the gun’s stolen, you know, that’s how they track it.

00:20:30.331 –> 00:20:35.451
They’re not, the ATF, the federal government is not legally allowed to keep

00:20:35.451 –> 00:20:36.791
records of who owns what.

00:20:36.951 –> 00:20:40.311
That would be called a registry. And that is one thing that,

00:20:40.331 –> 00:20:44.731
you know, us as gun owners and the Second Amendment supporters do not want.

00:20:45.011 –> 00:20:49.871
We don’t want them to have access to that because that’s the way for them to

00:20:49.871 –> 00:20:51.711
be able to come confiscate, you know.

00:20:51.891 –> 00:20:54.651
Right. And that’s been done in the past in other countries.

00:20:54.871 –> 00:20:59.931
And so that’s one good thing about the way our system is set up for sure is

00:20:59.931 –> 00:21:05.351
that, you know, you can’t just you are liable for it. And you do have to be be careful.

00:21:06.027 –> 00:21:14.967
Yeah, and that’s a good point, too, is some folks think that when you complete that 4473,

00:21:15.147 –> 00:21:18.827
even though I don’t think very many people even know that’s the name of the

00:21:18.827 –> 00:21:23.727
form or the number designation for it, they think that’s on a gun register.

00:21:23.727 –> 00:21:28.507
They think that means your name is on some list somewhere.

00:21:28.747 –> 00:21:35.867
And, yes, there is a paperwork trail for legal store-purchased firearms,

00:21:35.867 –> 00:21:37.947
but that is not a registry.

00:21:38.367 –> 00:21:45.287
Yeah, that’s definitely true. And even when they come and do an audit on us,

00:21:45.347 –> 00:21:47.067
when I say they, I do mean the ATF.

00:21:47.067 –> 00:21:51.887
Even when the ATF does an audit on us, you know, they’re not even allowed to

00:21:51.887 –> 00:21:55.727
take the books to their hotel room or to their house and look at them.

00:21:55.827 –> 00:21:59.827
They have to leave the books and the paperwork at the store.

00:22:00.267 –> 00:22:03.547
And so, yeah, that’s a big thing.

00:22:03.667 –> 00:22:07.167
Even when they do audit, they have to do that. So, yeah, that’s true.

00:22:07.427 –> 00:22:11.407
I did not know that. Well, that’s good. Yeah, there’s been some concern expressed

00:22:11.407 –> 00:22:15.287
about that whole thing in the past, too. So that’s good to know.

00:22:15.827 –> 00:22:20.287
Let’s talk about what you should not do when you come to purchase a firearm.

00:22:21.147 –> 00:22:28.067
As far as things that I would say you don’t want to do when coming to purchase a firearm, well—,

00:22:28.767 –> 00:22:32.807
You know, be open to listen to the sales associate.

00:22:32.967 –> 00:22:39.347
Now, a lot of one thing that we try to do is we try to let our customers look

00:22:39.347 –> 00:22:42.647
around and have some face to look around a little bit.

00:22:43.107 –> 00:22:48.947
But, you know, you don’t want to go in with an attitude of this is a gun for

00:22:48.947 –> 00:22:50.887
me unless you know what you’re doing.

00:22:51.047 –> 00:22:53.727
You know, if you know what you’re doing, that’s one thing. But if you’re new

00:22:53.727 –> 00:22:58.447
to it, be open to understanding why you might want something in particular.

00:22:58.447 –> 00:23:01.247
There you know yeah and and i would say again be open

00:23:01.247 –> 00:23:03.987
to taking a class because that’s you know i can

00:23:03.987 –> 00:23:06.607
do i can show you a gun we can feel it we

00:23:06.607 –> 00:23:09.607
can talk about it you can even shoot it but there

00:23:09.607 –> 00:23:12.367
may be something about it that you know you think you

00:23:12.367 –> 00:23:15.387
don’t like but maybe you’re holding the gun wrong maybe you’re

00:23:15.387 –> 00:23:18.427
you know maybe you’re not sure how to

00:23:18.427 –> 00:23:21.407
manage the recoil and that’s why i would recommend taking

00:23:21.407 –> 00:23:24.967
a class you know so and a lot of these shops what

00:23:24.967 –> 00:23:27.787
they like to do is they like to oh well you know

00:23:27.787 –> 00:23:30.927
buy a Glock 19 or buy a this particular gun

00:23:30.927 –> 00:23:33.687
but again everybody’s different you know they’re not

00:23:33.687 –> 00:23:36.327
every not just because it feels good to me doesn’t mean it’s going to

00:23:36.327 –> 00:23:39.147
feel good to you so and even you know

00:23:39.147 –> 00:23:44.647
this whole the whole you know you I have an uncle who’s a cop or I have a you

00:23:44.647 –> 00:23:48.007
know brother who’s a cop and they told me to buy this gun well that’s a good

00:23:48.007 –> 00:23:53.787
recommendation but I wouldn’t take that as like as a as you know that word is

00:23:53.787 –> 00:23:56.427
gold because But everybody’s different.

00:23:56.567 –> 00:24:03.787
And so I think a big thing is just being open to some different suggestions.

00:24:04.667 –> 00:24:07.907
Because, like I said, I’ve been doing this for a long time, and I’m not one

00:24:07.907 –> 00:24:10.887
of these guys who are going to say, I know everything about guns, because I don’t.

00:24:12.607 –> 00:24:17.487
I’m learning stuff every day about it. But I feel like I have seen some situations

00:24:17.487 –> 00:24:22.647
and handled a lot of guns that I can give an accurate depiction of what a person

00:24:22.647 –> 00:24:26.887
may need or may want based on their needs.

00:24:27.627 –> 00:24:33.087
But I think that’s a big thing is just being open and willing to listen to what,

00:24:33.629 –> 00:24:36.509
someone else has a suggestion about and that

00:24:36.509 –> 00:24:39.769
doesn’t mean that if you don’t buy that one then oh

00:24:39.769 –> 00:24:42.909
you know that sales associate didn’t help you know i think it’s

00:24:42.909 –> 00:24:45.609
just show them a bunch so take a look

00:24:45.609 –> 00:24:48.869
at a bunch of guns put them all in your hands maybe shoot

00:24:48.869 –> 00:24:54.829
three or four or five of them and see how they shoot but be open to to discussions

00:24:54.829 –> 00:24:59.369
and be open and that’s really in life you know be open to have these discussions

00:24:59.369 –> 00:25:05.629
yeah so yeah yeah and you know i know So on that particular topic, I know, you know,

00:25:05.729 –> 00:25:08.169
a lot of times women are told, oh, you need a revolver.

00:25:08.329 –> 00:25:10.889
You got to get a revolver because it’s easiest. And, you know,

00:25:10.989 –> 00:25:14.029
so oftentimes they’re pointed in the direction of a revolver.

00:25:14.169 –> 00:25:17.289
And maybe a revolver is what they’ll like and what they need.

00:25:17.369 –> 00:25:21.569
But they should they should work with a shop that’s willing to show them a lot of things.

00:25:21.569 –> 00:25:26.129
And then they should find a shop or multiple shops that allow them to rent so

00:25:26.129 –> 00:25:31.209
they can get a good sampling of things that they think they might like to try

00:25:31.209 –> 00:25:34.389
and figure out if it’s right for them or not, because you’re right.

00:25:34.769 –> 00:25:40.589
Suggestions from somebody that knows for someone that doesn’t know doesn’t mean

00:25:40.589 –> 00:25:44.849
it’s necessarily the right choice, the right suggestion for that person.

00:25:46.069 –> 00:25:49.029
So proxy purchases when i go in

00:25:49.029 –> 00:25:52.049
and i say hey i want to buy my uncle this

00:25:52.049 –> 00:25:54.809
firearm that’s illegal is it

00:25:54.809 –> 00:25:57.789
not yeah so that’s what

00:25:57.789 –> 00:26:02.789
what we call straw purchases actually yeah i’m

00:26:02.789 –> 00:26:07.909
sure proxy purchase is a is another term for but yeah a straw purchase is when

00:26:07.909 –> 00:26:13.729
somebody is buying a gun for someone else and that is 100% illegal and I can

00:26:13.729 –> 00:26:21.609
smell it coming from a mile away and it’s one of those things that happens all the time for us,

00:26:21.789 –> 00:26:26.689
most of our bad reviews come from that because what will happen is you’ll get

00:26:26.689 –> 00:26:29.309
a man and a woman come in and.

00:26:30.609 –> 00:26:35.249
The man will pick out a gun that they like and then they’ll say,

00:26:35.289 –> 00:26:37.849
oh well she wants this gun and that’s,

00:26:38.841 –> 00:26:43.081
textbook right there there’s your telltale yeah yeah definitely

00:26:43.081 –> 00:26:45.961
i mean i’ve had people you know exchange the money

00:26:45.961 –> 00:26:49.041
in front of my face and you know say you know well this

00:26:49.041 –> 00:26:51.901
is you know this is not for me it’s for this person

00:26:51.901 –> 00:26:56.521
well that’s not that’s not legal you know yeah you can’t purchase a gun in place

00:26:56.521 –> 00:26:59.941
of someone else you know that they have to go through that background check

00:26:59.941 –> 00:27:06.401
and they can come back on you because that form 4473 is a federal form if you

00:27:06.401 –> 00:27:10.201
lie on that form you can go to jail and pay large fines for that.

00:27:10.361 –> 00:27:14.701
They can definitely take you to jail. The first question they ask you on that

00:27:14.701 –> 00:27:19.621
form is are you the actual transferee slash buyer of the firearm?

00:27:20.401 –> 00:27:27.281
If you answer that with a yes and then you give it to…

00:27:28.801 –> 00:27:33.821
The purpose of buying that gun is for someone else. That’s lying on a federal form.

00:27:34.141 –> 00:27:37.661
That’s not good. I think the fine is…

00:27:38.161 –> 00:27:42.561
Something like $250,000 fine and up to 10 years in jail. Wow.

00:27:42.901 –> 00:27:46.801
Which is hefty. Yeah. It’s a hefty fine. And it’s something that,

00:27:46.801 –> 00:27:50.121
you know, people should take into account, you know.

00:27:50.461 –> 00:27:55.281
Don’t buy a gun for someone that can’t purchase a gun. If they want a gun,

00:27:55.381 –> 00:27:57.261
they need to go get the gun. Yeah.

00:27:57.821 –> 00:28:01.841
Because not only, and us as a shop, we can get in trouble for that.

00:28:01.841 –> 00:28:10.101
So, like, the ATF is known to send people and send people into stores to test

00:28:10.101 –> 00:28:12.081
that and see if they will sell them firearms.

00:28:12.481 –> 00:28:17.421
And for us, it’s not worth our business license and our FFL,

00:28:17.621 –> 00:28:19.281
our federal firearms license.

00:28:19.641 –> 00:28:24.061
You know, we’re putting that at risk when we sell a gun, knowing that it’s a

00:28:24.061 –> 00:28:25.601
straw purchase like that, you know.

00:28:25.861 –> 00:28:30.921
And you can only help what you can help. So, I mean, some people may do that

00:28:30.921 –> 00:28:35.961
and let’s not know about it, you know, because I don’t know what everyone’s intentions are.

00:28:36.321 –> 00:28:41.481
But I, you know, we try to be very diligent because it’s my family out there, too.

00:28:41.801 –> 00:28:45.861
You know, somebody that is coming in to get a gun that doesn’t need a gun.

00:28:46.541 –> 00:28:48.821
You know, my family could be the victim from that.

00:28:48.941 –> 00:28:53.801
So I’m very aware of that. And I try to make sure that we don’t have we don’t

00:28:53.801 –> 00:28:57.081
allow any of that in the shop. You know, I understand, you know,

00:28:57.261 –> 00:29:00.941
people helping other people purchase the gun as far as like,

00:29:01.081 –> 00:29:03.041
you know, getting suggestions and whatnot.

00:29:03.461 –> 00:29:08.441
But when one person not even holding the gun, the person that that gun is supposed

00:29:08.441 –> 00:29:10.321
to be for doesn’t even put it in their hand.

00:29:10.541 –> 00:29:14.001
And another person says that they want it. That’s a pretty telltale sign.

00:29:14.121 –> 00:29:16.501
Yeah, that’s a big indicator. What’s going on. Red flag.

00:29:17.101 –> 00:29:20.701
So, you know, I’ve often wondered myself about that.

00:29:20.701 –> 00:29:24.761
So it sounds like it’s a matter of liability because, you know,

00:29:24.841 –> 00:29:30.221
in my mind, I think, okay, yeah, we know that’s not legal and I should not sell

00:29:30.221 –> 00:29:35.121
a firearm to this person that is really for someone else. Yeah.

00:29:35.763 –> 00:29:39.923
What’s the difference between that and then that person that purchased it for

00:29:39.923 –> 00:29:44.743
themselves, going out in the parking lot and selling it to that individual right

00:29:44.743 –> 00:29:46.883
after they’ve made the sale?

00:29:47.023 –> 00:29:54.003
Is it a matter of traceability and liability, and that’s really the only difference in that situation?

00:29:54.003 –> 00:29:56.823
Because i’ve often i’ve often wondered like i i

00:29:56.823 –> 00:30:00.363
get that it’s it’s not legal but you

00:30:00.363 –> 00:30:03.283
know nothing says i couldn’t go out in the parking lot right after

00:30:03.283 –> 00:30:06.803
the sale and just sell it to them on the spot right

00:30:06.803 –> 00:30:10.863
and there’s no there’s no way to tell whether that’s happening or not you know

00:30:10.863 –> 00:30:14.343
that people could be doing that but the thing is that i think the difference

00:30:14.343 –> 00:30:19.203
is really in intention what their intentions are you know if you buy it with

00:30:19.203 –> 00:30:25.083
the intent for it to be for someone else then that I would consider that a straw purchase, you know.

00:30:25.243 –> 00:30:29.343
But if you’re not buying that for your intention of using it,

00:30:29.463 –> 00:30:33.763
your own intention of using it, then that’s probably a straw purchase.

00:30:34.223 –> 00:30:37.263
Now, and then it gets a little dicey when you throw in the gifts,

00:30:37.703 –> 00:30:41.123
you know. So Christmas time is one of our biggest times of year.

00:30:42.003 –> 00:30:45.743
And you can legally gift a gun to someone.

00:30:46.043 –> 00:30:51.623
Now, again, you are liable for that. So, you know, just because you can do it

00:30:51.623 –> 00:30:54.063
doesn’t mean you can do it for everyone.

00:30:54.303 –> 00:30:58.783
You know, people that cannot possess a gun can’t possess a gun no matter how they get it. Yeah.

00:30:59.323 –> 00:31:02.763
So, you know, that it gets a little dicey when you when you,

00:31:02.823 –> 00:31:05.163
you know, kind of add those things in there.

00:31:05.343 –> 00:31:10.523
But again, you know, I would say the main difference is going to be intention.

00:31:10.903 –> 00:31:14.403
You know, if you’re buying it with the intent of it being for someone else,

00:31:14.643 –> 00:31:18.923
then that’s probably not a good idea. And the gift thing kind of rolls in that.

00:31:19.083 –> 00:31:23.103
And it’s one of those things where, you know, that’s something that you have

00:31:23.103 –> 00:31:26.443
to leave to the discretion of the employee or the shop, you know.

00:31:27.625 –> 00:31:32.445
In my opinion, I would think that it would be the best thing for everyone if

00:31:32.445 –> 00:31:39.425
whoever is intending on using the gun comes in and either purchases it or does the paperwork for it.

00:31:39.905 –> 00:31:45.345
And that way everyone’s covered. The shop’s covered, the customers are covered,

00:31:45.525 –> 00:31:48.105
because that’s the safest way to go about it.

00:31:48.445 –> 00:31:53.625
Give your family members some cash and let them go buy the gun for themselves.

00:31:55.125 –> 00:31:58.465
Exactly. And then just, you know, buying guns is a personal thing,

00:31:58.505 –> 00:32:01.785
like we said before, you know, just because it feels good to me doesn’t mean

00:32:01.785 –> 00:32:02.965
it’s going to be good for you.

00:32:03.245 –> 00:32:07.745
And so having someone else pick out what they want, that’s going to be the better

00:32:07.745 –> 00:32:10.285
option for everyone in the long run, I think.

00:32:10.645 –> 00:32:16.585
Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk about all the fun, exciting things,

00:32:16.905 –> 00:32:22.085
SBRs and suppressors and things like that, goodies we want to get our hands

00:32:22.085 –> 00:32:27.005
on that are a little bit more troublesome to go through the hassle for.

00:32:27.205 –> 00:32:28.745
What’s involved with that and

00:32:28.745 –> 00:32:32.565
why is it different and what’s involved in getting those sorts of things?

00:32:32.605 –> 00:32:38.485
I guess those are considered class three and you have to have a tax stamp for it, et cetera.

00:32:38.485 –> 00:32:41.625
Right right yeah so class three

00:32:41.625 –> 00:32:44.725
items involve like shore barrel shotgun which is

00:32:44.725 –> 00:32:47.845
a a shotgun with the barrel less than 18 inches

00:32:47.845 –> 00:32:50.745
or a shore barrel rifle which is

00:32:50.745 –> 00:32:56.525
a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches and or suppressors or silencers

00:32:56.525 –> 00:33:03.445
they legally according to the atf they’re silencers but yeah yeah right yeah

00:33:03.445 –> 00:33:09.105
i wish that’d be great right but yeah so we sell a lot of those at the shop.

00:33:09.785 –> 00:33:14.465
We’ve been selling Class 3 items probably since we opened.

00:33:16.045 –> 00:33:18.785
There’s been some changes throughout the year, but currently,

00:33:19.025 –> 00:33:24.565
so any purchase of a Class 3 item, so be that a silencer, short barrel rifle,

00:33:24.865 –> 00:33:28.705
or short barrel shotgun, requires you to pay a tax stamp.

00:33:28.905 –> 00:33:35.105
It’s a $200 tax stamp that you have to pay to be able to purchase the item, and that’s per item.

00:33:36.015 –> 00:33:40.435
If you buy two silencers, that’s $400. If you buy three silencers, that’s $600.

00:33:41.655 –> 00:33:47.455
So each silencer or each class three item requires a $200 time stamp.

00:33:48.095 –> 00:33:54.235
And currently, the way it’s done is basically you have to get fingerprinted

00:33:54.235 –> 00:33:56.575
for either a local agency,

00:33:56.955 –> 00:34:05.835
like police agency, or even now Silencer Shop is a retailer that actually has these kiosks up now.

00:34:06.015 –> 00:34:09.755
And what these kiosks do is they do your fingerprint at the kiosk.

00:34:09.815 –> 00:34:14.855
So while you’re at the store, you can actually do your fingerprint all in the

00:34:14.855 –> 00:34:17.335
store. So that’s what we have in our shop.

00:34:17.535 –> 00:34:21.175
So, yeah, you’re required to do fingerprints.

00:34:21.215 –> 00:34:25.695
You’re required to have a passport photo taken that’s on your paperwork when

00:34:25.695 –> 00:34:29.575
you get it back. And then basically you have to send all that paperwork off

00:34:29.575 –> 00:34:32.755
with a $200 tax stamp paid.

00:34:33.235 –> 00:34:36.535
You send that off to the ATF and you have to wait for approval.

00:34:36.895 –> 00:34:41.735
And as of late, it’s taken about 10 months for paperwork to come back.

00:34:41.895 –> 00:34:43.955
And it’s not always that way.

00:34:44.395 –> 00:34:47.595
It hadn’t always been that way as far as it’s taking that long.

00:34:47.695 –> 00:34:52.115
But that’s the big downside to purchasing a silent third Class III item is that

00:34:52.115 –> 00:34:54.375
you do have to wait about 10 months.

00:34:54.715 –> 00:34:59.335
But you do also have to, not only do you have to wait, but you do have to purchase

00:34:59.335 –> 00:35:04.635
the item as well. because the serial number of that item is recorded on the paperwork.

00:35:05.035 –> 00:35:09.915
So, yeah, when we do the paperwork, that serial number is attached to your form.

00:35:09.915 –> 00:35:14.995
So we have to pull that item off the shelf and then put it in the bag until

00:35:14.995 –> 00:35:16.775
your paperwork gets sent back

00:35:16.775 –> 00:35:20.715
to us, and then we call you and let you know that your paperwork’s back.

00:35:21.195 –> 00:35:28.815
So you can use those items while you’re waiting, right? Do I understand that right?

00:35:30.344 –> 00:35:34.824
Right. And it’s all up to the shop or the range that you’re purchasing it from.

00:35:35.024 –> 00:35:39.264
But, yeah, if you’re at a range, and most ranges, I mean, I won’t see why you

00:35:39.264 –> 00:35:45.064
wouldn’t, most ranges will allow you to use the item while you’re waiting in their range.

00:35:45.244 –> 00:35:48.584
So as long as they have the range on the same premises as the shop.

00:35:48.724 –> 00:35:52.704
You know, if it’s at a different location, you know, you can’t take it off location.

00:35:53.624 –> 00:35:56.784
But yeah so you can you can definitely use

00:35:56.784 –> 00:36:00.244
silencers or sbrs in the range you

00:36:00.244 –> 00:36:05.444
know for us when when we have a range open our range is open you know you’ll

00:36:05.444 –> 00:36:10.244
be able to to purchase it and use it in our range as long as one of our managers

00:36:10.244 –> 00:36:15.344
is there because we do lock them up you know every day so as long as one of

00:36:15.344 –> 00:36:19.624
our managers are there we have access to them and we can let you use them while you’re waiting.

00:36:19.804 –> 00:36:22.144
And even if our manager isn’t there, if you kind of call ahead,

00:36:22.484 –> 00:36:28.544
we can kind of have it set aside to where you can use it, even if the manager’s not there.

00:36:29.424 –> 00:36:35.784
So why is it that it takes so long to get approved on a Class 3 item?

00:36:36.646 –> 00:36:42.146
Well, you know, I don’t know. I can’t answer that exactly because I don’t necessarily

00:36:42.146 –> 00:36:47.186
have a whole lot of inside information on the NFA branch of the ATF,

00:36:47.306 –> 00:36:49.206
which is where they all get processed.

00:36:49.566 –> 00:36:52.366
But, you know, it’s kind of that. That’s another thing.

00:36:52.526 –> 00:36:56.666
There’s a lot of myths about, you know, nobody really knows why it takes so long.

00:36:56.666 –> 00:36:59.506
It’s a mystery is they do a background

00:36:59.506 –> 00:37:02.846
check yeah it is it’s kind of a mystery you know they they

00:37:02.846 –> 00:37:05.626
have to conduct a background check which seems to

00:37:05.626 –> 00:37:08.946
be about the longest part of the waiting yeah

00:37:08.946 –> 00:37:11.906
and you can also call and get updated from

00:37:11.906 –> 00:37:15.006
the apf on where you’re at in the process not necessarily in

00:37:15.006 –> 00:37:18.086
how much how much longer it will take but if

00:37:18.086 –> 00:37:20.966
you’re in the phase of background check or

00:37:20.966 –> 00:37:23.946
if you’re you’re in the phase of you know reviewing the

00:37:23.946 –> 00:37:26.866
form and all that so you know that’s an option too

00:37:26.866 –> 00:37:29.786
you just can you can call the nfa branch of

00:37:29.786 –> 00:37:32.746
the atf give them the serial number of your item

00:37:32.746 –> 00:37:36.206
whatever class three item you’re buying and then they can

00:37:36.206 –> 00:37:40.566
they can check and see the status of it too but that’s

00:37:40.566 –> 00:37:44.986
a yeah it’s it’s i don’t i don’t know that i can answer that honestly we’ll

00:37:44.986 –> 00:37:49.346
we’ll pretend it’s just volume yeah we’ll just pretend it’s volume of what they’re

00:37:49.346 –> 00:37:53.106
having to deal with going through there right the nfa is having to deal with

00:37:53.106 –> 00:37:56.966
yeah so yeah And that is probably part of it. Yeah.

00:37:57.606 –> 00:38:02.606
So, okay, I’ve purchased the, let’s say I’ve purchased my suppressor.

00:38:02.906 –> 00:38:09.386
And I’ve sent in my $200 and my photo and the paperwork into the ATF NFA.

00:38:09.866 –> 00:38:15.226
And I’m waiting. And, you know, while I wait, maybe I come up to the range a

00:38:15.226 –> 00:38:18.886
couple of times and shoot with it because I’m super excited to try it out.

00:38:19.026 –> 00:38:23.386
You know, just see how cool it is to shoot a silencer. and at the end of that

00:38:23.386 –> 00:38:26.826
10 months, I’m declined. What happens then?

00:38:27.766 –> 00:38:31.506
So, yeah, that’s happened before. It’s not very common.

00:38:32.226 –> 00:38:39.386
But, yeah, if you’re denied from that, so you technically do lose your $200 fee that they charge.

00:38:40.106 –> 00:38:46.226
And there’s a way to appeal it also, just in case you are falsely denied.

00:38:46.386 –> 00:38:49.946
You know, there’s a possibility because we’re talking about the federal government here.

00:38:50.826 –> 00:38:54.606
But, right. So they can falsely deny you.

00:38:54.806 –> 00:38:58.766
But, you know, what ends up happening is because that that item has been pulled

00:38:58.766 –> 00:39:03.366
off the shelf for so long, you know, it’s typically like a restocking fee and whatnot.

00:39:03.366 –> 00:39:08.066
But I think, you know, what’s important is you you understand,

00:39:08.266 –> 00:39:13.066
you know, when you purchase that item, that item comes off the shelf and it

00:39:13.066 –> 00:39:16.326
tells for, you know, 10 months. You know, that’s a long time.

00:39:16.526 –> 00:39:20.106
And at any given time, we probably have three to four hundred items,

00:39:20.286 –> 00:39:23.266
class three items that are waiting for for tag stamp.

00:39:23.486 –> 00:39:28.206
So we have a lot of different items that sit in our in our room.

00:39:29.327 –> 00:39:33.847
I mean, a whole shelf full and a whole, maybe a whole room full of suppressors

00:39:33.847 –> 00:39:36.447
and SBRs that are waiting.

00:39:36.707 –> 00:39:39.907
So, yeah, typically, you know, there’s a restocking fee. You know,

00:39:40.007 –> 00:39:44.547
I don’t know that every shop is going to be a little different on how they do it.

00:39:45.267 –> 00:39:48.087
But, yeah, you will end up losing some money.

00:39:48.227 –> 00:39:51.427
But, again, another important thing to realize is basically,

00:39:51.707 –> 00:39:55.007
from what I understand, And if you’re able to have a carry permit,

00:39:55.387 –> 00:39:59.487
then you’re able to own a suppressor or Class 3 item.

00:39:59.867 –> 00:40:03.427
So that’s the big thing is if you can get a carry permit, you shouldn’t have

00:40:03.427 –> 00:40:06.847
any problem with getting a Class 3 item.

00:40:07.527 –> 00:40:11.907
Yeah, makes sense. So just to get your personal opinion on this,

00:40:12.007 –> 00:40:16.607
because I wrestle with this myself, which is one of the reasons why I haven’t done a Class 3 item.

00:40:16.707 –> 00:40:19.907
And there’s a couple of things that I want, but I’ve put it off.

00:40:19.907 –> 00:40:22.647
Do you feel being in

00:40:22.647 –> 00:40:26.427
the business for as long as you have do you feel like if

00:40:26.427 –> 00:40:32.387
i pay and pay the tax stamp and go through the process of waiting to get approved

00:40:32.387 –> 00:40:38.667
for my suppressor or my stock that makes my pistol now an sbr or whatever do

00:40:38.667 –> 00:40:42.707
you think that puts me on some list that’s going to go to the top of some list

00:40:42.707 –> 00:40:46.287
when things go south with the government or otherwise do you think,

00:40:46.907 –> 00:40:50.927
In other words, should people be concerned that that’s a thing or should they

00:40:50.927 –> 00:40:55.287
proceed and do what they want to do and it doesn’t really have any impact?

00:40:56.587 –> 00:41:01.387
So I wouldn’t necessarily know if there’s a list. I mean, I guess technically

00:41:01.387 –> 00:41:03.887
those items are registered under your name.

00:41:04.807 –> 00:41:07.707
But you know the big thing that i hear is that

00:41:07.707 –> 00:41:10.747
people are afraid that because you have

00:41:10.747 –> 00:41:13.707
these class three items the atf can come

00:41:13.707 –> 00:41:17.067
can come check on them and make sure that

00:41:17.067 –> 00:41:20.107
you know those are correct and serial numbers

00:41:20.107 –> 00:41:22.947
are correct and all that they have the ability to

00:41:22.947 –> 00:41:25.867
come and come to you and double check those items

00:41:25.867 –> 00:41:28.867
which they do technically they do have

00:41:28.867 –> 00:41:32.547
the ability to to come check on them but i

00:41:32.547 –> 00:41:35.247
mean in dealing with the atf for for a

00:41:35.247 –> 00:41:38.647
long time i i think you know i’ve only

00:41:38.647 –> 00:41:42.467
heard of one situation where that has been something

00:41:42.467 –> 00:41:46.307
that’s happened and what it was was it was a a wife

00:41:46.307 –> 00:41:49.167
whose husband had passed away and had

00:41:49.167 –> 00:41:53.687
this old machine gun that he had and they got it they had to get it transferred

00:41:53.687 –> 00:41:59.647
into her name and got it transferred into her name and an atf agent came in

00:41:59.647 –> 00:42:04.787
and checked on it and made sure that that item was transferred and that the

00:42:04.787 –> 00:42:06.307
serial number was correct and all that.

00:42:06.427 –> 00:42:10.527
Usually what that means is that their paperwork is off and they want to make

00:42:10.527 –> 00:42:15.247
sure they have some sort of discrepancy and they want to make sure that their paperwork is right.

00:42:15.567 –> 00:42:19.307
The ATF is a very understaffed.

00:42:20.028 –> 00:42:23.088
Agency yeah and again i’ve been talking

00:42:23.088 –> 00:42:25.868
to the inspectors and the agents they all

00:42:25.868 –> 00:42:28.548
say the same thing it’s that they don’t have the

00:42:28.548 –> 00:42:32.648
manpower to just go by and check everybody’s everybody’s

00:42:32.648 –> 00:42:36.108
cluster items especially you know like me who

00:42:36.108 –> 00:42:42.528
own three silencers or or cluster items or you who own one or two as opposed

00:42:42.528 –> 00:42:47.428
to some of these companies that own hundreds or thousands of them you know those

00:42:47.428 –> 00:42:50.968
are the ones that they are going to check more than the people that own three

00:42:50.968 –> 00:42:52.948
or four or even 10 silencers.

00:42:53.228 –> 00:42:56.408
That’s not even, that’s not even a blip on their radar really.

00:42:56.608 –> 00:43:01.388
You know, they don’t have the manpower to send all of their guys to,

00:43:01.388 –> 00:43:06.168
you know, Ben Powell’s house to go check his three silencers,

00:43:06.388 –> 00:43:07.448
you know, for some reason.

00:43:07.648 –> 00:43:11.628
The only, the only real event that that’s going to happen is if you’re probably

00:43:11.628 –> 00:43:14.848
doing something you shouldn’t anyway, and you’re on their radar for that.

00:43:14.848 –> 00:43:20.288
So to me, you know, I don’t worry about it because like I said, in the 15,

00:43:20.448 –> 00:43:24.908
16 years I’ve been doing this, I’ve never heard of someone getting checked just

00:43:24.908 –> 00:43:29.008
because they were checking or trying to incriminate them or anything like that.

00:43:29.128 –> 00:43:30.948
That’s what a lot of people worry about. Yeah.

00:43:31.308 –> 00:43:38.708
But for me, I don’t, I don’t kind of, I think that’s more of a conspiracy type mindset. Sure.

00:43:39.108 –> 00:43:42.288
I’m not, I don’t think it’s as much of a big deal personally.

00:43:42.608 –> 00:43:46.408
Yeah. But they kind of, I mean, if it’s a federally registered item,

00:43:46.668 –> 00:43:49.228
they kind of have to have the ability to come check it.

00:43:49.368 –> 00:43:52.868
If there’s paperwork on your end and there’s paperwork on their end.

00:43:53.308 –> 00:43:57.428
If their paperwork is incorrect, they’ve got to be able to come to you to fix

00:43:57.428 –> 00:44:01.168
it, you know? Yeah, and that makes sense. I do understand that.

00:44:02.088 –> 00:44:05.568
Although purchasing a silencer and doing the registering to me doesn’t make

00:44:05.568 –> 00:44:09.748
a whole lot of sense as far as why you have to go through all that.

00:44:09.848 –> 00:44:13.648
Right. especially for what I call a glorified muffler. Right.

00:44:14.048 –> 00:44:18.348
Because in all lessons, that’s about what a silencer is, is a glorified muffler.

00:44:18.388 –> 00:44:19.848
Yeah, it is. You know what I mean?

00:44:20.947 –> 00:44:23.887
Yeah yeah but so uh

00:44:23.887 –> 00:44:26.647
machine guns taking this one step further and i

00:44:26.647 –> 00:44:30.687
know your shop has a few couple how

00:44:30.687 –> 00:44:33.867
do machine guns differ or how do how

00:44:33.867 –> 00:44:36.807
does the purchasing process for machine gun

00:44:36.807 –> 00:44:39.807
different or is it the same as the other class three

00:44:39.807 –> 00:44:43.227
stuff how what what’s the delineation there

00:44:43.227 –> 00:44:46.907
so there is it’s the same process so it’s

00:44:46.907 –> 00:44:49.887
the same process the process to purchase a a

00:44:49.887 –> 00:44:52.807
machine gun as a any other class

00:44:52.807 –> 00:44:55.787
three item okay but the difference in a machine gun

00:44:55.787 –> 00:45:03.147
is the item has to be made before 1986 or registered before 1986 to be able

00:45:03.147 –> 00:45:09.887
to purchase them so what that means is they are very expensive yes and not you

00:45:09.887 –> 00:45:14.087
know i’m just kind of guesstimating here but like one of the cheaper.

00:45:15.027 –> 00:45:17.807
Class or cheaper machine guns is a

00:45:17.807 –> 00:45:20.747
like a max 11 let’s say and those

00:45:20.747 –> 00:45:24.027
last i checked are bringing somewhere between

00:45:24.027 –> 00:45:27.207
six and eight thousand miles you know for any

00:45:27.207 –> 00:45:31.007
any of them so they’re very very expensive and

00:45:31.007 –> 00:45:33.667
you know if we can afford them and you know

00:45:33.667 –> 00:45:36.947
go for it but they’re very expensive and they’re

00:45:36.947 –> 00:45:39.787
expensive to feed too you know you gotta pay for the ammo to

00:45:39.787 –> 00:45:42.967
gotta pay for the ammo to feed that baby oh yeah

00:45:42.967 –> 00:45:46.487
that can be more expensive than the actual item yeah yeah

00:45:46.487 –> 00:45:50.167
no absolutely so it’s it’s got to be pre-86

00:45:50.167 –> 00:45:53.087
pre-1986 and otherwise it’s pretty

00:45:53.087 –> 00:45:57.307
much a class three type of item right exactly

00:45:57.307 –> 00:46:00.367
yeah yeah i knew they were expensive

00:46:00.367 –> 00:46:03.387
and i suspect that fact alone will keep most

00:46:03.387 –> 00:46:06.207
people from ever even having to worry about machine guns but

00:46:06.207 –> 00:46:09.187
you know there’s always this big debate in the especially

00:46:09.187 –> 00:46:12.087
the anti-gun community why does anybody need a machine gun

00:46:12.087 –> 00:46:15.487
and they’re too easy to get not really i mean

00:46:15.487 –> 00:46:20.727
if you got a lot of money i guess not easy to get right right you got to find

00:46:20.727 –> 00:46:24.547
them first and then you got to pay for them and then you got to feed them that’s

00:46:24.547 –> 00:46:27.487
the problem is there’s not a lot of them yeah there’s there’s not a lot of them

00:46:27.487 –> 00:46:32.067
out there now you know you they do you know they are kind of an investment too

00:46:32.067 –> 00:46:33.487
you know they go up in value,

00:46:34.147 –> 00:46:37.527
pretty high you know a little bit every year they seem to go up you know it

00:46:37.527 –> 00:46:43.667
depends but a lot of people will buy them you know if you you purchased a machine gun back in 1995.

00:46:44.327 –> 00:46:48.407
And you still have it that gun is probably about three or four times what it

00:46:48.407 –> 00:46:53.987
was worth now what it was worth then you know so yeah so they are investments

00:46:53.987 –> 00:46:57.367
too but you know a lot of Some will cost more than more than your car.

00:46:58.287 –> 00:47:02.347
Right. And then some. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, definitely.

00:47:03.307 –> 00:47:07.747
For for for women coming into the shop, whether it’s their first purchase or

00:47:07.747 –> 00:47:11.067
subsequent purchase, but primarily the first purchase.

00:47:11.407 –> 00:47:16.587
What would be your biggest piece of advice for for women coming into the shop?

00:47:17.562 –> 00:47:21.082
Women have it rough when it comes to carrying guns.

00:47:21.102 –> 00:47:25.782
I feel for women because, you know, like us men, we have, you know,

00:47:26.082 –> 00:47:27.982
baggy clothes more or less.

00:47:28.102 –> 00:47:31.602
You know, we have usually larger shirts and things, you know,

00:47:31.662 –> 00:47:36.562
we have places to hide a gun, whereas a female does not have very many places

00:47:36.562 –> 00:47:38.662
that they can hide, hide a gun, you know.

00:47:38.942 –> 00:47:45.422
Yeah. So women, you know, a lot of it depends on, you know, how they want to carry, you know.

00:47:45.422 –> 00:47:51.142
You know, I would always say it’s best to have the firearm on your person if

00:47:51.142 –> 00:47:54.202
you’re going to carry it, you know, and that’s my personal preference.

00:47:54.342 –> 00:47:57.722
Yep, mine too. But a lot of women like to carry it in a purse also, you know.

00:47:58.342 –> 00:48:02.042
And, you know, it’s probably better than nothing, but, you know,

00:48:02.122 –> 00:48:06.182
having it on your purse and as far as a female goes, it’s hard to do.

00:48:06.882 –> 00:48:11.742
And honestly, what I would recommend, and that’s just because it’s hard for

00:48:11.742 –> 00:48:18.002
women to find accessories, is whatever gun you buy, buy a holster designed for women.

00:48:18.262 –> 00:48:23.402
So there’s a website, and I’m going to call them out because they’re a good

00:48:23.402 –> 00:48:26.202
website to go to for women specifically.

00:48:26.462 –> 00:48:29.582
But it’s called the Well-Armed Woman. Yes, familiar.

00:48:29.982 –> 00:48:36.402
And they are fantastic. They have lots of different options for women and caring

00:48:36.402 –> 00:48:42.262
for women that are on your person, not just, you know, for purses and things like that.

00:48:42.762 –> 00:48:46.062
Again, a purses, that’s all you got and that’s what you got to do.

00:48:46.202 –> 00:48:52.182
It is what it is. But I would highly recommend carrying it on your person.

00:48:52.382 –> 00:48:57.082
That way it’s easier to get to. And they have things like holsters for bras,

00:48:57.602 –> 00:49:01.262
holsters, like what they call belly band holsters, things like that,

00:49:01.362 –> 00:49:05.322
that are specifically designed for women because they do require some special

00:49:05.322 –> 00:49:09.222
care to make sure that they can carry efficiently and effectively, you know.

00:49:09.222 –> 00:49:14.882
So for us men, you know, most holsters, you know, are going to work for us,

00:49:14.942 –> 00:49:18.382
you know, as far as like inside the waistband, you can throw your shirt over it.

00:49:18.662 –> 00:49:21.502
Women don’t have that extra bit of shirt to cover their gun,

00:49:21.622 –> 00:49:24.982
you know. They have to come up with a little more creative ways to do it.

00:49:25.342 –> 00:49:28.042
Yeah, they’ve got to change their wardrobe in a lot of cases.

00:49:29.103 –> 00:49:34.623
Oh definitely definitely and then you know as far as like for a woman purchasing a firearm,

00:49:35.163 –> 00:49:41.383
i think again shooting is a is a big thing knowing what you’re getting into trying out different,

00:49:41.903 –> 00:49:45.543
different calibers trying out different sizes understanding that

00:49:45.543 –> 00:49:48.583
smaller guns are going to take more than bigger guns yeah so

00:49:48.583 –> 00:49:51.803
if they plan on just keeping it at the house or this

00:49:51.803 –> 00:49:54.843
is going to be a home protection gun get a larger gun don’t

00:49:54.843 –> 00:49:57.623
get a real small gun that way you can practice with it

00:49:57.623 –> 00:50:00.523
you can target you with it get comfortable with

00:50:00.523 –> 00:50:03.383
it and and shoot it without having to deal with the higher

00:50:03.383 –> 00:50:09.383
recoil and things like that you know yeah so i think i say first is is take

00:50:09.383 –> 00:50:13.323
lessons and and and learn about it learn about the gun learn about what you

00:50:13.323 –> 00:50:18.583
want and know what you want to use it for and then you know again shoot them

00:50:18.583 –> 00:50:20.743
put them in your hand see how they feel,

00:50:21.283 –> 00:50:25.263
understand that if it’s a small gun it may not fill up your hand completely

00:50:25.263 –> 00:50:29.603
If you want a pocket gun, it’s not going to fill your hand or else it won’t

00:50:29.603 –> 00:50:30.983
fit in your pocket. Yeah.

00:50:32.503 –> 00:50:38.883
And I’m a big fan of my biggest thing for carry guns is the best one is the one you have.

00:50:39.023 –> 00:50:41.463
Yeah, right. And the one you have on you is the best gun.

00:50:42.203 –> 00:50:47.563
Just because you have a gun that you love and it’s at home, when you need it

00:50:47.563 –> 00:50:51.363
and you’re out and about, it doesn’t matter how good that gun is. You don’t have it.

00:50:51.543 –> 00:50:54.003
Right. So the best gun is the one you have on you.

00:50:54.583 –> 00:50:57.763
And again, that’s something that I personally believe pretty strongly.

00:50:58.103 –> 00:51:02.043
You know, a lot of people say, oh, well, don’t get a 22, you know,

00:51:02.143 –> 00:51:06.323
because that’s going to just hurt somebody or that’s just going to make somebody mad, you know.

00:51:06.503 –> 00:51:12.203
No, I don’t think I don’t agree with that. I think that, you know, even a 22 will do damage.

00:51:12.343 –> 00:51:16.423
If you’re efficient with a 22, it will do plenty of damage.

00:51:16.723 –> 00:51:21.343
So I think being comfortable with what you’re carrying so that you don’t you

00:51:21.343 –> 00:51:23.823
aren’t afraid to use it if you absolutely have to.

00:51:24.003 –> 00:51:27.363
You know, that hesitancy can honestly get you killed.

00:51:27.603 –> 00:51:30.943
You know, if you’re hesitant to pull your gun out and defend yourself,

00:51:31.183 –> 00:51:33.803
that can be a bad situation.

00:51:34.083 –> 00:51:39.643
So being comfortable with this big understanding that as long as it’s with you,

00:51:39.843 –> 00:51:41.243
that’s the safest place.

00:51:41.403 –> 00:51:44.743
You know, that’s the safest way to do it, to have the gun on you.

00:51:44.883 –> 00:51:50.003
And so if you’re more likely to carry a gun because of the .22 and get you a

00:51:50.003 –> 00:51:56.563
.22, If you’re not going to carry a 380 or a 9mm as much, then get the 22,

00:51:56.763 –> 00:52:00.563
because that’s the one you’re more likely to be efficient with and more likely to carry.

00:52:00.983 –> 00:52:07.523
That’s the one you need to get. And, you know, I say the same thing for men, too. You know, it’s…

00:52:08.272 –> 00:52:13.312
Just people don’t want to get .22s or small calibers, but if you’re not going

00:52:13.312 –> 00:52:20.412
to carry a 9mm because it’s too big, then a .22 or something small may do you better, you know?

00:52:20.412 –> 00:52:26.212
Yeah, I think the two takeaways, and you’ve touched on these multiple times

00:52:26.212 –> 00:52:34.072
in our talk, is one is certainly if you want to get people’s opinions and get people’s advice,

00:52:34.912 –> 00:52:40.312
especially those that shoot regularly, know firearms better than you do, great.

00:52:40.312 –> 00:52:46.072
Take those opinions, get that advice, but ultimately go and find out for yourself.

00:52:46.332 –> 00:52:50.752
Hold those guns, rent them, go shoot them, figure out what makes sense for you.

00:52:50.892 –> 00:52:55.972
Don’t just go purchase the firearm that your Uncle Bob told you to get.

00:52:56.212 –> 00:53:02.092
And then the other thing is, is that you’ve got to shoot regularly and you need some training, right?

00:53:02.232 –> 00:53:04.832
And I think those are two key important takeaways.

00:53:05.852 –> 00:53:08.792
Definitely. Again, you’re not going to be comfortable with it if you’ve never shot it.

00:53:08.792 –> 00:53:13.992
So in wrapping up here, because I think we’ve had a good chat on this topic

00:53:13.992 –> 00:53:18.952
for sure, and I’ve even learned a couple of pieces of info I didn’t realize

00:53:18.952 –> 00:53:23.472
before, a couple of pieces I actually need to relay to some folks right after this.

00:53:23.472 –> 00:53:28.892
But, you know, for me, and, you know, if you’ve listened to the podcast before,

00:53:29.032 –> 00:53:33.032
you know, I’m big on safety and talk a lot about safety, or at least I have.

00:53:33.452 –> 00:53:38.992
From your perspective, what would you tell people about safety in and around

00:53:38.992 –> 00:53:40.712
the gun shop when they’re looking

00:53:40.712 –> 00:53:44.152
at the counters, when people are to the left and to the right of them?

00:53:44.292 –> 00:53:49.912
What advice would you give in the safety department, the etiquette department for that matter?

00:53:50.572 –> 00:53:53.852
Sure sure i mean that’s a huge thing because i

00:53:53.852 –> 00:53:56.732
mean every every gun shop or gun range you go into

00:53:56.732 –> 00:54:02.352
i guarantee you if they haven’t had a i call them mds or negligent discharges

00:54:02.352 –> 00:54:06.772
yeah you’re going to have them i mean we’ve had them before in our shop from

00:54:06.772 –> 00:54:12.792
either customers or or even possibly employees but i i think the biggest thing

00:54:12.792 –> 00:54:16.392
is to follow the safety rules and i just listened to your podcast on that.

00:54:17.152 –> 00:54:22.312
You know, and I think that that’s one thing that, you know, always treat a firearm like it’s loaded.

00:54:22.712 –> 00:54:27.652
And then, you know, as far as in a gun shop for being a gun shop specifically, you know,

00:54:28.123 –> 00:54:32.943
One thing that we like and we kind of require is if you’re bringing in a gun

00:54:32.943 –> 00:54:39.443
to the range and you want to shoot and you don’t have a case or a bag or a box to put it in,

00:54:39.703 –> 00:54:45.243
make sure that action or that bolt or that slide is locked to the rear and you’re

00:54:45.243 –> 00:54:47.483
holding it in a non-threatening manner.

00:54:47.963 –> 00:54:52.243
That being not with your hand on the grip, finger on the trigger.

00:54:52.243 –> 00:54:56.003
You know yeah so always action open magazine

00:54:56.003 –> 00:54:58.943
out is is 100 the way

00:54:58.943 –> 00:55:01.763
especially if you don’t have a case and if it isn’t a case

00:55:01.763 –> 00:55:04.703
and you plan on you know maybe even trying it in a holster

00:55:04.703 –> 00:55:07.563
or things like that first off you

00:55:07.563 –> 00:55:10.303
know come in with it unloaded if you plan on doing

00:55:10.303 –> 00:55:13.063
those things do not come into a gun shop with it

00:55:13.063 –> 00:55:16.443
with one in the pipe or even a magazine loaded yeah

00:55:16.443 –> 00:55:19.183
again it happens all the time yeah i’m sure and at

00:55:19.183 –> 00:55:22.223
our shop person yeah our shop we you know

00:55:22.223 –> 00:55:25.203
we encourage you to carry inside the shop loaded and

00:55:25.203 –> 00:55:30.183
ready to go you know i don’t i don’t think a gun shop is a place where you know

00:55:30.183 –> 00:55:34.503
that is is is not valid you know carrying is not valid i think it’s definitely

00:55:34.503 –> 00:55:39.683
a place that people should carry but do not take that firearm out under any

00:55:39.683 –> 00:55:43.383
circumstances unless it is in a dire situation.

00:55:44.043 –> 00:55:47.483
I don’t care if you want to try it in a holster. If you want to try it in a

00:55:47.483 –> 00:55:50.423
holster, we’re going to make you go in the range, unload it,

00:55:50.543 –> 00:55:52.343
and then you can bring it back in.

00:55:53.903 –> 00:55:59.023
One other thing that I would say would be if you bring it in in a box or a bag

00:55:59.023 –> 00:56:05.203
to let the associate take it out, it’s going to make us more comfortable as sales associates.

00:56:05.683 –> 00:56:10.283
It’s going to make other people around us more comfortable just because we’re

00:56:10.283 –> 00:56:11.463
going to take extra care.

00:56:11.603 –> 00:56:14.323
And I’m not saying that, you know, because you’re a customer,

00:56:14.323 –> 00:56:17.063
you don’t know what you’re talking about, that you don’t know how to handle it.

00:56:17.163 –> 00:56:21.443
But it’s more about making everybody around you more comfortable because you

00:56:21.443 –> 00:56:25.223
are dealing with something that is potentially dangerous, you know.

00:56:25.483 –> 00:56:32.563
And so we try to take extra care in that. You know, we don’t want any accidents to happen.

00:56:32.823 –> 00:56:36.323
So, you know, we try to, you know, again, keep our heads on a swivel,

00:56:36.323 –> 00:56:43.823
even in the shop. and we look at people their reactions and their actions in general if they’re,

00:56:44.885 –> 00:56:48.465
You know, most people are going to carry inside of a gun shop and I’m fine with that.

00:56:48.645 –> 00:56:54.505
Again, just don’t, don’t dig out that firearm unless it is in a situation where

00:56:54.505 –> 00:56:56.105
a dire situation, you know,

00:56:57.065 –> 00:57:02.645
because it can be, it can be very, very traumatic to people that are just in

00:57:02.645 –> 00:57:05.965
the same room or something like that. Yeah. I mean, I’ve been in the same room.

00:57:06.365 –> 00:57:10.625
I’ve, I’ve had a negligent discharge before and it was 100%,

00:57:10.625 –> 00:57:12.025
thousand percent my fault.

00:57:12.185 –> 00:57:15.225
You know, if you have one, it’s because you broke one. of the rules.

00:57:15.625 –> 00:57:19.145
That’s just the way it happens. But if you break two of the rules,

00:57:19.545 –> 00:57:21.045
then somebody’s probably going to get hurt.

00:57:22.925 –> 00:57:29.045
That’s one thing that I’m big on, is making sure that you follow all of the

00:57:29.045 –> 00:57:32.345
safety rules, the guidelines that you talked about in your previous podcast.

00:57:32.645 –> 00:57:37.185
I think that’s something that everybody should read, listen to,

00:57:37.385 –> 00:57:42.525
adhere to at all times because that’s how people get killed accidentally.

00:57:43.245 –> 00:57:48.945
That’s just That’s a situation where it can be very traumatic, even people around.

00:57:49.285 –> 00:57:55.745
We’ve had emails in the shop when that happened and it literally traumatized some of us.

00:57:55.965 –> 00:58:00.705
It’s a terrible situation and it’s something that we try to avoid at all costs,

00:58:00.965 –> 00:58:03.385
any kind of negligent discharge.

00:58:03.725 –> 00:58:08.385
But it’s a scary thing. It’s a scary thing to be around.

00:58:08.525 –> 00:58:12.885
It’s a scary thing to witness, but that’s why we all need to be careful.

00:58:13.999 –> 00:58:18.159
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And I’m glad you touched on those points because

00:58:18.159 –> 00:58:20.439
they’re things that I harp on all the time.

00:58:20.659 –> 00:58:25.219
And, you know, in the gun shop, it, I would, I’m not going to say it’s more

00:58:25.219 –> 00:58:30.559
important, but it is vitally important that you’re following basics because

00:58:30.559 –> 00:58:33.719
there’s so many people in a condensed space, right?

00:58:33.719 –> 00:58:39.459
And if you’re waiving a loaded firearm, because they’re all supposed to be loaded,

00:58:39.719 –> 00:58:42.399
you treat them all as if they’re loaded at all times.

00:58:42.419 –> 00:58:46.859
If you’re pointing the business end at people to the left and the right of you

00:58:46.859 –> 00:58:50.499
when you’re inspecting a gun you’re considering for purchase or whatever else.

00:58:50.879 –> 00:58:55.399
The likelihood of someone getting hurt is much greater just because a lot of

00:58:55.399 –> 00:58:58.179
times there’s a lot more people in a smaller place.

00:58:58.179 –> 00:59:01.099
And so those safety rules become even

00:59:01.099 –> 00:59:03.919
more important from a you know from

00:59:03.919 –> 00:59:08.099
a shop perspective at least it seems like to me right yeah

00:59:08.099 –> 00:59:10.899
i definitely agree because you got a lot

00:59:10.899 –> 00:59:13.839
of people around you you know when you’re at your house by yourself but

00:59:13.839 –> 00:59:16.939
yeah yeah it’s your safety but you’re dealing

00:59:16.939 –> 00:59:19.859
with other people when you’re in a public place or in

00:59:19.859 –> 00:59:23.859
a location like a shop or rain so it’s

00:59:23.859 –> 00:59:27.159
just taking that extra care yeah my opinion yeah

00:59:27.159 –> 00:59:30.379
at home you know okay yeah there’s kids but hopefully

00:59:30.379 –> 00:59:35.739
it’s just the couch in the way right but in the gun shop you’ve got sales associates

00:59:35.739 –> 00:59:41.079
you’ve got customers you’ve got you know a whole lot of things going on so following

00:59:41.079 –> 00:59:46.619
those basic safety rules is super important well ben this is great would you

00:59:46.619 –> 00:59:49.599
would you have anything else to add to what we’ve talked about?

00:59:50.459 –> 00:59:55.199
Oh, man, we’ve talked about a good bit of stuff. Yeah, I can’t think of anything

00:59:55.199 –> 00:59:57.299
that is coming to mind yet.

00:59:57.679 –> 01:00:01.339
But I do appreciate you having me, though. Yeah, it’s been great.

01:00:01.439 –> 01:00:03.599
How can folks find you guys?

01:00:04.299 –> 01:00:07.959
So, we’re Bullseye Indoor Ancient Gun Shop in Lawrenceville, Georgia.

01:00:08.379 –> 01:00:15.979
So, that’s about, you know, what, about 40 miles east and northeast of Atlanta.

01:00:16.379 –> 01:00:21.619
And And, yeah, we’ve been around. We’re open every day during the week, you know.

01:00:22.579 –> 01:00:27.339
So, yeah, you can come by and see us anytime. And we’d love to help you out.

01:00:27.339 –> 01:00:31.559
Or if you have any questions or anything like that, you can always call us or

01:00:31.559 –> 01:00:33.739
come by and check out the stuff.

01:00:33.819 –> 01:00:36.079
Because we got a lot of guns normally.

01:00:36.359 –> 01:00:40.559
So, you know, we keep a lot of stuff in stock. Yep, you do. I can attest to that firsthand.

01:00:40.939 –> 01:00:44.119
Well, Ben, I appreciate you coming on and doing this. And I’m sure we’re going

01:00:44.119 –> 01:00:48.379
to talk to you soon. when the next time we’re up at the shop looking to purchase something probably.

01:00:49.139 –> 01:00:51.519
Awesome. Well, I look forward to seeing you, Jim.

01:00:51.600 –> 01:01:12.545
Music.