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Music.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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I’m your host, Jim O’Brien. Hey and welcome to episode 19 where we talk about

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all things being a range safety officer.

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I’ve got my good friend and my brother from another mother, Denis Haynes,

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back on with me this evening.

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You may remember him from our gun safety episodes part 1 and part 2.

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If you haven’t listened to those yet, I recommend you going back and listening to that.

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The gun safety definitely ties into the range safety officer,

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and when Dennis and I first started this, he actually did the very first podcast

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with me on gun safety, and we talked about then doing one on being an RSO, a range safety officer.

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So I want to welcome back Dennis W. Haynes to the program. How are you, Dennis?

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I’m doing pretty good. Thanks for having me on again. Absolutely.

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These are fun to do, so I’m glad you’re doing this with us again.

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So I’ll spare us a brief intro because, again, if you listen to part one and

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our very first episode, podcast one and part one and two of gun safety,

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you know who Dennis is by now.

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So I would ask that you go back and listen to those.

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But I want to talk a little bit about what a range safety officer is and kind

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of why we got certified to be that,

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what’s involved with being a range safety officer and some war stories,

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and then some tips along the way, too, of what to expect at the range and what

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you should and shouldn’t be doing.

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So what is a range safety officer? What is an RSO?

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Well, it’s an individual or individuals that are at the range to look over everyone’s

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safety, to make sure everyone’s following proper gun safety rules,

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handling their firearms correctly, and are brave enough to go up and give some

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critiques and critical feedback to those that may not be doing what they should be safely.

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What would you add to that? You know, if you Google, it says that a range safety

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officer is someone who supervises shooting activities prescribed by the range SOP, right?

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And as you know, when we took our course, that understanding and following the

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range SOP was a very key role for the range safety officer.

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Yeah, that’s a good point. And Dennis and I went through, we became and went

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through NRA’s certification for being a range safety officer.

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And that’s a really good point because my key takeaway from that certification

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was really not only being competent in gun safety rules and being willing to enforce those,

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but also the key was to follow the ranges SOP that you were working at.

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So knowing what that range ranges rules are.

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And following what they want you to follow and follow what they want you to

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enforce out on the range at any given time.

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Yeah. And, you know, for the average shooter, if someone coming in,

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it’s important that they look for the range rules also. So they know and understand

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what’s expected from them or of them as a shooter.

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Absolutely. And that’s a great point, too, is that a lot of ranges,

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if not most ranges, have safety rules posted around the place.

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If not, a lot of them will have you walk through a basic safety video or welcoming

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course, whatever, just to kind of get you familiar with what the expectations out on course.

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But the general gist and takeaway is, is that you should be following those

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basic gun safety rules at all time.

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And that’s really the main point of what an RSO is and what they do for that range.

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It comes up a lot. there’s a lot of ranges, at least in my mind,

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there’s a lot of ranges that don’t support RSO or don’t, what I mean by support

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is they don’t necessarily have them employed on staff all the time out on the range with you.

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Cause of course we know one local range here that actually employs RSOs or is

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a part of their employees job responsibilities to act as an RSO out on range.

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I guess the question in my mind comes up,

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In your opinion, Dennis, do you think ranges should employ more RSOs?

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Should there be more RSOs on the range to help people, especially newbies?

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I do, because as you said, there’s a local range that actually has RSOs as part of their staff.

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And there’s another local range that never has an RSO out on the range.

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And I’ve gone to both and have talked to shooters at both.

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And I can tell you, I’ve heard more than on one occasion that speaking with

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shooters at the range that does not have an RSO,

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those experienced shooters say that they get nervous out there watching new

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shooters get out there and start walking around with their guns loaded,

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flagging people and whatnot, and just doing a lot of silly little things.

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So I definitely would tell you that having a range safety officer on just brings

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more comfort to the shooter. I Completely agree.

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Yeah, I think that’s something that I’ve heard thematically over the years, too,

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is that a lot of patrons of ranges wish that they would be more active in overseeing

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the range and enforcing just some basic gun safety because,

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you know, it’s not until you work a range and you’re in a range regularly.

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Whether you’re just shooting or especially acting as an RSO,

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that you begin seeing a lot of the unsafe practices agree.

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And some of the shenanigans that go out on the range.

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But, you know, in fairness to the ranges, it’s a bit of a challenge, right?

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Because potentially it’s more pay for employees to act as that RSO.

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I think that’s why some make it, I guess maybe I don’t know how they’re doing

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it, but perhaps a prerequisite to their employment that, hey,

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as you know, if you work around behind the counter, that’s great.

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But part of your responsibilities is going out on range and acting RSO for,

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you know, an hour or two as your shift and rotating out and another way to do

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it is kind of like what you and I experience where a range office offers a volunteer

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program where they have volunteers come in and do it but I think the challenge there is is getting.

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Competent individuals that not only can enforce range safety,

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but have the time and are willing to show up regularly and consistently for that volunteer role.

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And so I think there’s a couple of challenges behind that, but suffice it to

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say, an RSO can certainly make the range experience better overall, safer overall.

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And I think the public would prefer to have it

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if they knew it was a possibility to begin with to your point

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yep you know i’m not

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a range owner obviously but i do recall during the course that one of the benefits

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of the rso to the range itself it helps on the insurance now i can’t confirm

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or deny that but it would make sense to me right so Yeah, it seemed to.

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Yeah. Given that, I don’t understand why more rangers would not employ RSOs.

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Like you said, even on a volunteer basis, there’s a lot of guys out there that

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would be willing to be a range safety officer if you just allow them to shoot for free.

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Yeah. So it’s not a big cost for them. A fringe benefit for sure.

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Yeah, I think there’s an opportunity for ranges to consider that role as part

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of their offering because it only serves to make things safer,

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at least in theory, I think in practicality as well.

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And then it gives shooters peace of mind, especially, I think,

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what you said a few minutes ago to new shooters, right, coming out there for

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the first time. They’re not sure what to expect.

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They’re dealing with, I know, a lot of new shooters that have never shot before

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just are having a hard time acclimating and dealing with the loud sounds of

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the guns discharging all at one time.

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Everything from little .22s all the way up to big bore rifles and 12-gauge shotguns.

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Which can be a little disconcerting to any new shooter.

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I know part of the being an RSO is getting to see and experience some of the

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shenanigans firsthand.

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Do you have any stories you want to talk about? Because I have a few of just

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the ridiculous things you see and blatant violations of basic gun safety 101.

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I have to say I’ve had to call a ceasefire a few times.

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And, you know, I think about that, too.

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You know, anyone that’s been on a range, if, you know, you’re on an eight-lane

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range and you’re down in lane one and someone has, you state,

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performing shenanigans down in lane eight,

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right, and causing an unsafe condition for everyone else on the range,

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the person on lane one will never have an idea of what’s going on.

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So, you know, having that range safety officer as a center point,

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right, to ensure safety on the range and on the fire line is important.

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But I had an incident when we were on the range, and I gave that scenario with

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the two lanes because we had a lane where lane 8 was down doing something and lane 1 didn’t know.

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And the guy on lane eight was holding his weapon wrong, and he ended up getting

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a slide bite where, as you know,

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he had his thumb behind the slide holding his weapon incorrectly,

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and slide came back and ripped off a good piece of meat, and he started bleeding all over the place.

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And, of course, when it happened, he panicked and started waving the gun,

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the loaded gun with his finger still on the trigger with his firing hand.

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And his wife was there. She was concerned with him bleeding.

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So I immediately had to call cease fire and get everyone back off of the line

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so I can get to him and control the weapon.

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And then eventually, once we controlled the weapon, got it in a safe condition,

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we was able to perform minor first aid on him.

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But I had everyone stand back off the line because this guy,

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because he was wailing around with the gun, had blood all on the bench and in front of the line.

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We ended up having to clean everything up. Right. So, you know,

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you get a lot of people standing by and looking at that.

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You’ve got to think, what would have happened if there wasn’t an RSO on duty

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and this guy was doing all that, you know, because he was more concerned about

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himself being hurt rather than being concerned about the safety of others?

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Absolutely, and I think you make kind of an excellent point indirectly is that

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that’s a key takeaway from this too and kind of a safety element that isn’t

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talked about in the context of gun safety rules per se is that when you’re out on the range –

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you’re you could have things go wrong

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you could have something bad happen especially to

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someone new newer to shooting or isn’t

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fully competent in shooting or just isn’t comfortable in shooting you know like

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holding the semi-automatic pistol with the thumb behind the slide is a good

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case of that i think it’s safe to say that you and i have seen a whole lot of

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that happen out on the range and I know, I think you’ve done the same thing.

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When I see that, I go and try to correct that and try to teach them the proper

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way of holding a semi-automatic so that they avoid that thumb bite,

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because that’s a real risk when they do hold their pistols in that manner.

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And you make a good point because when things go south like that,

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when you have slide bite your thumb or you have a piece of hot brass go down

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the front of your shirt, ladies,

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or the back of your shirt, whatever it is.

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You know, people tend to focus on the event at hand.

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And sometimes handling that firearm becomes secondary and the safety rules go out the window.

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They’re more concerned with dealing that hot brass that gets hung up down the

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front of their shirt, down in their chest, whatever it may be.

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Or they have a bad slide bite from that semi-automatic pistol.

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You know it’s important that when those

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things do occur that you remain cognizant of

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the safety rules and where your your firearm is

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and that you put it on safety you put it down and

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then you deal with the the more

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immediate emergency of the brass being down the shirt

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or the slide biting the thumb whatever

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it is yeah but you know

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we’re human yep and you

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know when something happens especially for someone that’s

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untrained your instinct is

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to take care of yourself first not understand that right so that’s what happens

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yeah right a lot of times you know folks do that and aren’t really concerned

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about what’s going on around them other than their immediate need to stop the

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pain for most part. Right.

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Nothing beats a piece of burning brass down the front of your shirt for sure.

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And so I think that’s a good case right there in and of itself for why an RSO

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can be a valuable asset out on the range because, you know, if they’re doing

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their jobs, they’re looking to

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oversee everything that’s happening across however many lanes there are.

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And then if they are paying attention, they’re able to spot those scenarios

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and get on top of them before they potentially turn into more dangerous situations

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where folks are spinning around in their aisle with the gun pointing back behind

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them instead of downrange.

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A couple of takeaways there. I remember even before, and I think I told this

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story maybe in one of our earlier podcasts.

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I remember, I want to say it was even before I became an RSO,

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Raymond was in town and I took him to the range and he was on an aisle shooting

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and I was back behind him at one of the tables there in the range,

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reloading one of my magazines.

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And at the time, the range had, I think, done some sort of Groupon coupon type thing.

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And what I saw with the Groupon deal was it brought in a lot of new shooters,

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shooters that wouldn’t normally go to the range. It was a good opportunity.

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It was a very good deal, if I remember right. And you could always tell them

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because, A, you knew they were a Groupon group. If they came in and you happened

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to be out at the counter before they checked in, you knew what they were there for.

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But you could kind of spot them too at the time because you knew the Groupon was running.

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And a lot of the times the folks that had, you know, the rental ear protection,

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eye protection, and the little container, the bucket, so to speak,

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that they put the rental guns into,

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you know, you could kind of spot them from across the room at that time if you

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knew they were running Groupon.

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And I remember a couple came in shooting together, clearly their first time.

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And I was back on that table, wasn’t even working that day.

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And like I said, I think it was before I became a range safety officer.

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And I remember the woman turning around in the booth with pistol in hand,

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finger on the trigger, walking straight towards me.

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And I panicked for a moment. And then I realized I had no idea what she was

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doing and I wasn’t going to let just anything happen.

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So as she approached me, my eyes locked with her. And I remember very vividly

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without taking my eyes off of her eyes, I reached out with my left hand and

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very carefully and gently. I.

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The firearm out of her hand and said, let’s go back to the booth and let’s be

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sure not to come out of that booth with a loaded weapon again.

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And it turned out it was innocent enough.

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They didn’t know what to do with the firearm. They wanted to take a break from

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shooting and they wanted to know where the safety on the firearm was because they didn’t know.

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And it was just a matter of showing them that, hey, this is a striker fired weapon.

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Not all weapons have an external safety to turn on and off.

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At the end of the day, the real safety is you, the operator.

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And your safety is keeping your finger off of that trigger.

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So I proceeded to show them how to unload it and how to slide the,

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you know, how to slide the slide back, take the round out of the chamber and

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put the firearm down on the counter and then reminded them again,

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not to come out of that booth with a loaded weapon again.

00:17:05.315 –> 00:17:11.535
So, you know, whether you’re RSO or not, you’ll see a lot of crazy things, but suffice it to say,

00:17:11.755 –> 00:17:16.935
acting as volunteer range safety officers like we did, we had the opportunity

00:17:16.935 –> 00:17:20.495
to see a lot of crazy stuff out on the range.

00:17:20.695 –> 00:17:25.535
Yeah, we have. I’ve seen a lot. You know, in saying that, seeing a lot as a

00:17:25.535 –> 00:17:29.755
range safety officer, you have to, it takes a certain nerve to do it too,

00:17:29.775 –> 00:17:32.455
because you do see a lot and people do a lot of crazy things.

00:17:32.575 –> 00:17:36.935
I’ve been nervous a lot of times, you know, very similar to the incident you’ve had.

00:17:37.035 –> 00:17:43.575
I’ve seen people out there, young people that have not shot before or new shooters

00:17:43.575 –> 00:17:48.015
or experienced shooters, I should say, out there taking pictures of themselves

00:17:48.015 –> 00:17:50.255
holding up guns, you know.

00:17:51.115 –> 00:17:55.655
And I use the word guns, and I can show it off as if they’re in a gang or something,

00:17:55.875 –> 00:17:57.615
and they’re on the range doing this, you know.

00:17:57.715 –> 00:18:00.575
I have no idea if the weapon’s loaded, or if the thing’s on the trigger.

00:18:01.295 –> 00:18:03.595
Or anything else and makes you kind of nervous.

00:18:04.407 –> 00:18:07.487
Right. Well, to your point, you know, when you’re taking those selfies,

00:18:07.707 –> 00:18:10.027
because that’s a that’s a thing these days, right?

00:18:10.107 –> 00:18:14.127
We all have got smartphones with the with social media, you know,

00:18:14.207 –> 00:18:17.647
you’re bound to take a selfie or two or have someone take a picture of you.

00:18:17.647 –> 00:18:23.087
You know, naturally, those pictures are with you facing uprange,

00:18:23.307 –> 00:18:27.487
meaning you and that weapon are likely pointing in the incorrect direction in

00:18:27.487 –> 00:18:28.667
order to take that picture.

00:18:29.207 –> 00:18:34.487
And as a third party, as an RSO looking on that, you’re seeing this person turned

00:18:34.487 –> 00:18:38.107
the opposite direction, the direction they’re not supposed to be facing,

00:18:38.347 –> 00:18:42.127
holding up the firearm to have their buddy take the picture of it. Right.

00:18:42.847 –> 00:18:47.047
That’s definitely a good example of some of the things we see,

00:18:47.127 –> 00:18:52.147
especially now with social media and folks wanting to take pictures of themselves. And I get it.

00:18:52.267 –> 00:18:55.367
Right. I think that’s I don’t know about you, but that’s one of the things I

00:18:55.367 –> 00:18:57.547
did enjoy about being an RSO.

00:18:57.807 –> 00:19:02.867
And I think we did it for about a year and a half volunteer basis in the overall scheme of things.

00:19:02.967 –> 00:19:06.127
I think it was about a year and a half. That was one of the things I really

00:19:06.127 –> 00:19:14.067
did enjoy about that job was seeing like-minded individuals on the range doing

00:19:14.067 –> 00:19:18.067
something they all enjoyed or wanted to try out or take part in.

00:19:18.207 –> 00:19:22.987
And I really did enjoy that aspect, like all shooters are there for the same

00:19:22.987 –> 00:19:25.187
reason. They’re enjoying the same activity.

00:19:25.687 –> 00:19:29.567
But it’s important to remember there’s still some basic safety that we need

00:19:29.567 –> 00:19:32.667
to make sure that is adhered to at all times.

00:19:32.667 –> 00:19:41.127
So on that note i know what my two are what are your top violations you think you saw in

00:19:41.527 –> 00:19:46.547
that time there what do you think you saw the most top violations

00:19:46.547 –> 00:19:50.187
i would say given the

00:19:50.187 –> 00:19:54.787
golden rules of safety people continually

00:19:54.787 –> 00:19:57.867
keeping their finger on the trigger and not

00:19:57.867 –> 00:20:00.907
having the weapon pointed down range yeah i think

00:20:00.907 –> 00:20:03.867
i think that’s one of the top violations i

00:20:03.867 –> 00:20:07.147
see and i think the second one

00:20:07.147 –> 00:20:10.087
is shooting outside of their lane

00:20:10.087 –> 00:20:13.007
i i wanted to see what

00:20:13.007 –> 00:20:16.667
do you mean yeah i tend to see people coming

00:20:16.667 –> 00:20:19.787
farther out of the booth than necessary

00:20:19.787 –> 00:20:28.467
or even sometimes shooting so far ahead of the table right and leaning over

00:20:28.467 –> 00:20:32.707
the table that rounds are ejecting into the next booth yeah because you know

00:20:32.707 –> 00:20:37.727
i think those were like two biggest things with the latter being,

00:20:38.567 –> 00:20:42.827
more so i’ve corrected so many people say you need to step inside the booth before you shoot.

00:20:43.729 –> 00:20:48.189
Yeah, the shooting forward of the bench, so to speak, you know,

00:20:48.309 –> 00:20:55.849
getting too far out there, you know, causes, to your point, in semi-automatic pistols and rifles,

00:20:56.309 –> 00:21:01.289
especially pistols, when your arms are extended, causes those brass,

00:21:01.549 –> 00:21:07.269
expended brass shells to go over to your, in front of your neighbor’s booth,

00:21:07.429 –> 00:21:09.129
which is distracting to them.

00:21:09.129 –> 00:21:12.089
And, you know, they’re getting hit with your hot brass.

00:21:12.249 –> 00:21:15.549
So that’s a that’s a good point to remember for those listening.

00:21:15.789 –> 00:21:20.169
Like, don’t extend beyond your booth, like stay inside those walls because those

00:21:20.169 –> 00:21:22.869
walls help keep in your brass.

00:21:23.409 –> 00:21:29.009
My two were my two main violations that I saw were your two.

00:21:29.309 –> 00:21:34.609
First, I saw fingers on the trigger when they shouldn’t be folks laying set,

00:21:34.769 –> 00:21:38.489
whether they’re setting down the gun or turning around in their booth,

00:21:38.489 –> 00:21:39.809
which I shouldn’t be doing.

00:21:39.989 –> 00:21:46.289
I saw a lot of fingers on the trigger in a lot of cases where the finger should

00:21:46.289 –> 00:21:47.689
not be on the trigger, right?

00:21:47.849 –> 00:21:51.429
That’s the second gun safety rule, right?

00:21:51.629 –> 00:21:55.869
Is trigger off the finger, finger off the trigger until ready to shoot,

00:21:56.029 –> 00:22:00.029
meaning the fingers not only off the trigger, but outside that trigger guard.

00:22:00.209 –> 00:22:04.109
I saw a lot of fingers on triggers at a lot of times they shouldn’t have been.

00:22:04.269 –> 00:22:09.809
And then my second biggest that I saw was not watching where the business end

00:22:09.809 –> 00:22:13.049
of that gun was pointing, the muzzle of that gun was pointing,

00:22:13.209 –> 00:22:18.029
whether it’s at their partner in the booth with them, turning around and flagging,

00:22:18.389 –> 00:22:24.629
meaning pointing that firearm at people indiscriminately behind or up range,

00:22:24.849 –> 00:22:29.089
you know, from them behind them, just out behind the alleyways,

00:22:29.289 –> 00:22:30.849
I think those two are really big.

00:22:30.989 –> 00:22:39.789
So if you’re following the first four gun safety rules, those won’t be such an issue for sure.

00:22:40.109 –> 00:22:45.729
You know, when it comes to safety and RSO or just safety and enforcing SOPs

00:22:45.729 –> 00:22:51.269
and whatever, what do you think gun ranges overall could do a better job of?

00:22:51.769 –> 00:22:55.409
You know, there’s a local range down here that has everyone,

00:22:55.409 –> 00:22:59.509
and they’re one of the rangers that have range safety officers employed.

00:22:59.709 –> 00:23:02.769
But what they do is they have every shooter.

00:23:03.552 –> 00:23:07.172
Watch a safety video yeah because again

00:23:07.172 –> 00:23:10.052
right new shooter coming into a range there’s no

00:23:10.052 –> 00:23:12.912
range safety officer there’s and some ranges don’t

00:23:12.912 –> 00:23:15.832
even have range rules posted right and let’s

00:23:15.832 –> 00:23:19.412
just say worst case scenario you have the scenario

00:23:19.412 –> 00:23:22.972
where you don’t have a range safety officer you don’t have range rules posted

00:23:22.972 –> 00:23:26.612
you get someone that you like you said got a groupon to

00:23:26.612 –> 00:23:30.292
go shoot at half price they they

00:23:30.292 –> 00:23:34.112
give them bullets in a gun and they walk right

00:23:34.112 –> 00:23:37.212
so that was the worst case scenario that’s

00:23:37.212 –> 00:23:39.792
a worst case scenario so you know

00:23:39.792 –> 00:23:43.012
i think at a minimum you know the rangers should

00:23:43.012 –> 00:23:50.192
have folks watch a range safety film right and go through some of the key range

00:23:50.192 –> 00:23:54.852
rules yeah so if there’s not a range safety officer on duty at least you know

00:23:54.852 –> 00:24:00.192
that shooter has an idea of what’s expected from them for, you know, for the range. Yeah.

00:24:00.572 –> 00:24:04.552
Now having a range safety officer to remind it and thrust that just makes it

00:24:04.552 –> 00:24:05.832
better for everyone involved.

00:24:06.272 –> 00:24:11.612
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I would think that’s my thing. Cause I, cause I wrestle, right.

00:24:11.732 –> 00:24:16.272
I, I wrestle with the idea cause I get it, right. It’s a business that are there to make money.

00:24:16.492 –> 00:24:22.132
They can’t, they can’t take time out to take 10, 15 minutes a side out while

00:24:22.132 –> 00:24:26.572
they’re busy checking people in at the gun counter range to get them out on range to shoot.

00:24:26.572 –> 00:24:31.452
They can’t take 10, 15 minutes out to pull a newbie to the side and show them

00:24:31.452 –> 00:24:35.252
the ins and outs of the gun they may have rented or maybe they just recently purchased.

00:24:35.672 –> 00:24:40.412
They don’t have time to run through those safety rules and give them some guidance

00:24:40.412 –> 00:24:47.372
on things to do, not to do, the basic workings of a firearm before they go out.

00:24:47.432 –> 00:24:50.712
And I know a lot of ranges do that, right? They try to give them a once-over.

00:24:50.852 –> 00:24:54.212
They’ll ask, is this your first time? Are you new at this? He said,

00:24:54.312 –> 00:24:58.912
any gun they rent, you know, they try to give them a brief once over of that weapon.

00:24:59.717 –> 00:25:04.617
But, you know, in the spirit of their time and making running an efficient business,

00:25:04.877 –> 00:25:09.257
I think that video, to your point, is a good way to kind of cover at least the

00:25:09.257 –> 00:25:11.577
fundamentals, the basics, right?

00:25:11.677 –> 00:25:15.737
To give everybody, like, here are basic gun safety rules.

00:25:15.757 –> 00:25:21.257
Here’s some things we like to do and insist upon here at this range just to

00:25:21.257 –> 00:25:22.517
kind of give you a foundation.

00:25:22.897 –> 00:25:27.237
And then if you got an RSO out on range, that just helps bring it all together.

00:25:27.237 –> 00:25:32.697
But doing more up front for those new shooters, I think, is something that all

00:25:32.697 –> 00:25:36.457
ranges could do a little bit better job at, for sure.

00:25:37.357 –> 00:25:40.377
Yeah, and I think that would be the main thing. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:25:41.157 –> 00:25:43.037
So, you know, having done this,

00:25:43.317 –> 00:25:48.577
like I said, for a year and a half, what, what are your, what are your thoughts

00:25:48.577 –> 00:25:55.577
on what it takes to be an RSO and, and what you have to be willing to do when

00:25:55.577 –> 00:25:57.997
you’re acting as an RSO out on range?

00:25:58.317 –> 00:26:01.237
What do you, what do you think is involved in that? And what do you think it

00:26:01.237 –> 00:26:06.037
takes? I think just to become an RSO, you should have a good understanding of

00:26:06.037 –> 00:26:09.897
basic gun discipline, right?

00:26:11.237 –> 00:26:16.217
Understand clearing of a weapon, you know, know how to shoot yourself.

00:26:16.477 –> 00:26:20.737
I’m not saying you have to be an expert, but you should be familiar with things

00:26:20.737 –> 00:26:23.057
because, as you know, being a range safety officer,

00:26:24.497 –> 00:26:30.297
Although the range SOP may state that, you know, you shouldn’t be out there

00:26:30.297 –> 00:26:34.837
assisting people with shooting, but there are a lot of times when shooters out

00:26:34.837 –> 00:26:38.057
there, they have no idea, you know, shooting a semi,

00:26:38.457 –> 00:26:41.997
they raise a hand, they’re panicked because they got a stovepipe,

00:26:42.097 –> 00:26:44.057
they have no idea what to do, right?

00:26:44.057 –> 00:26:46.537
They pulled the trigger, the gun went bang, nothing happened.

00:26:46.537 –> 00:26:47.857
They have no idea what to do.

00:26:47.937 –> 00:26:52.717
And as a range safety officer, you need to be able to learn how to know how

00:26:52.717 –> 00:26:54.997
to help that shooter clear that weapon.

00:26:55.457 –> 00:27:02.837
So I think without that basic understanding of guns and gun discipline,

00:27:02.857 –> 00:27:06.937
it’ll be difficult to be a proficient range safety officer.

00:27:08.207 –> 00:27:10.807
Yeah. I think that’s, I think that’s really it. I think, you know,

00:27:11.307 –> 00:27:14.567
anything else is just really up to the individual, but in general,

00:27:14.667 –> 00:27:17.047
I think that that’s a necessity. Yeah.

00:27:17.887 –> 00:27:24.567
No, I agree. I think being able to address the things that come up is certainly

00:27:24.567 –> 00:27:30.567
a part, part of it for me, you know, I think in terms of what does it take for me to do that job?

00:27:30.567 –> 00:27:35.807
And I know, you know, I’m not an outgoing social person, not type a personality,

00:27:35.807 –> 00:27:41.547
But I know in that role, you kind of had to make yourself be that because you’re

00:27:41.547 –> 00:27:44.887
dealing with potentially dangerous situations.

00:27:44.887 –> 00:27:51.107
So for me, what it takes is a willingness to approach someone that’s doing something

00:27:51.107 –> 00:27:55.327
maybe not all out dangerous is going to get everyone in trouble,

00:27:55.327 –> 00:28:00.347
but just little things that you can do to make things safer for them and for

00:28:00.347 –> 00:28:01.647
everyone else around them.

00:28:01.647 –> 00:28:08.327
Like, for example, a mild case may be correcting someone the way someone is

00:28:08.327 –> 00:28:13.327
holding their semi-automatic pistols so they don’t get slide bite, right?

00:28:13.467 –> 00:28:17.127
That’s just an accident waiting to happen. I’ve seen it so many times where

00:28:17.127 –> 00:28:21.587
you just kind of cringe because you’re waiting on the trigger to get pulled

00:28:21.587 –> 00:28:24.827
and that slide to come back over the top of that thumb knuckle.

00:28:24.827 –> 00:28:30.227
And so, you know, the willingness to go up to them and offer help in showing

00:28:30.227 –> 00:28:35.327
them how to properly hold that firearm so they avoid that potential injury.

00:28:35.667 –> 00:28:43.007
But just the ability and willingness to approach an individual and correct them.

00:28:43.007 –> 00:28:50.527
And I think the ability to give constructive criticism in a firm but friendly

00:28:50.527 –> 00:28:54.027
manner is absolutely key to be an RSO, right?

00:28:54.127 –> 00:29:00.547
You can’t soft-step it so much. You have to call them out on what they’ve done and correct it.

00:29:00.667 –> 00:29:04.727
And then, you know, if they continue to violate what you’ve corrected them on,

00:29:04.847 –> 00:29:07.267
then you have to kind of escalate as you go along.

00:29:08.007 –> 00:29:11.507
But I think that willingness to approach folks that you would,

00:29:11.767 –> 00:29:15.347
you know, if you were at the range shooting, you may not approach.

00:29:15.467 –> 00:29:19.167
Although a lot of cases, I don’t know about you, but I’ve been at the range

00:29:19.167 –> 00:29:23.947
shooting on my own and I’ve seen something unsafe, like somebody loading their

00:29:23.947 –> 00:29:25.607
weapon at the table behind me.

00:29:25.727 –> 00:29:30.127
And I’ve approached them and be like, Hey, you guys need to load and unload

00:29:30.127 –> 00:29:33.047
your weapon in the booth, not behind me at the table.

00:29:33.207 –> 00:29:36.287
Right. So that, you know, kind of getting you out

00:29:36.287 –> 00:29:39.507
of that comfort zone of being willing

00:29:39.507 –> 00:29:43.807
to approach people when you normally wouldn’t necessarily and then being able

00:29:43.807 –> 00:29:49.667
to give them corrective feedback i think is an important part of being an rso

00:29:49.667 –> 00:29:56.547
for sure yep i agree i agree i know the time i had as an rso i enjoyed it you know,

00:29:57.593 –> 00:30:01.653
I enjoyed talking to people, working with people, watching shooters.

00:30:02.713 –> 00:30:09.273
Fortunate for us, the range we were at had a lot of law enforcement and FBI agents.

00:30:10.113 –> 00:30:17.193
We’ve had a lot of contractors come in, guys come in to have more money than

00:30:17.193 –> 00:30:20.293
cents and bring all kinds of crazy weapons into the range.

00:30:20.753 –> 00:30:25.153
So that part of it was always fun. There was always something new going on.

00:30:25.373 –> 00:30:26.693
It was never a dull moment.

00:30:27.593 –> 00:30:30.513
And you think just, I think that’s common in most jobs, right?

00:30:30.533 –> 00:30:33.313
If you, if you’re busy, the time goes fast and it’s more enjoyable.

00:30:33.513 –> 00:30:36.533
It’s those times when there’s one shooter out there and, you know,

00:30:36.533 –> 00:30:37.573
he’s an experienced shooter.

00:30:37.713 –> 00:30:40.553
He doesn’t need any help. And it’s just you and him out there on the range,

00:30:41.273 –> 00:30:43.733
right? Time goes really slow. Yeah.

00:30:44.273 –> 00:30:48.093
Yeah, I agree. I, I’ve met a lot of interesting people, some,

00:30:48.273 –> 00:30:52.193
you know, crazy people with a lot of money that have a lot of fun toys.

00:30:52.433 –> 00:30:55.473
And fortunately, again, kind of going back to the point I made earlier,

00:30:55.473 –> 00:31:00.213
I really enjoyed seeing, being around and seeing people shoot.

00:31:00.413 –> 00:31:05.113
I’ve met a lot of people that have allowed me to shoot their firearms that I

00:31:05.113 –> 00:31:06.593
wouldn’t have an opportunity to shoot.

00:31:06.673 –> 00:31:11.633
Otherwise I’ve let them shoot my firearms when the, when the opportunity presents

00:31:11.633 –> 00:31:15.613
itself, you know, it’s just a lot of camaraderie, a lot of opportunity to talk

00:31:15.613 –> 00:31:19.473
to people you wouldn’t otherwise be able to talk to and, you know,

00:31:19.593 –> 00:31:21.473
all for a common interest. Right.

00:31:22.233 –> 00:31:25.813
Wait a minute. Do you let other people shoot your firearms that you don’t know

00:31:25.813 –> 00:31:30.493
and you already let me shoot him i i have i have yeah i still owe you a few

00:31:30.493 –> 00:31:34.493
rounds on a couple of goodies that i have in the closet yeah for sure.

00:31:35.241 –> 00:31:38.181
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the great part of it. And I think,

00:31:38.321 –> 00:31:43.901
you know, going back to my original point, I think there’s a way to work with

00:31:43.901 –> 00:31:48.761
folks to let them know that you’re there to help them, to make them better.

00:31:48.761 –> 00:31:53.381
I think you probably took advantage of that sometimes more than I did in that

00:31:53.381 –> 00:31:57.821
you take it as an opportunity to teach somebody something new,

00:31:57.961 –> 00:32:01.881
like whether it’s how to properly hold their pistols so they don’t get slide

00:32:01.881 –> 00:32:07.521
bite or how to properly align their sights so they can shoot better or their

00:32:07.521 –> 00:32:09.701
breathing, their stance, whatever it is.

00:32:09.701 –> 00:32:14.221
It’s not just about correcting them when they make a safety faux pas,

00:32:14.461 –> 00:32:18.361
but I looked at it as an advantage when I saw, especially when I saw something

00:32:18.361 –> 00:32:23.101
glaringly, obviously not as good as it could have been to help them out if they

00:32:23.101 –> 00:32:25.241
were willing to take my input on that.

00:32:25.361 –> 00:32:29.001
And I can’t tell you, I don’t know about you, but I can’t tell you how many

00:32:29.001 –> 00:32:34.581
times I had guys thank me for helping their significant other,

00:32:35.001 –> 00:32:39.001
you know, their girlfriend, their wives or whatever out because they wouldn’t

00:32:39.001 –> 00:32:41.761
listened to their husbands or their boyfriends,

00:32:42.041 –> 00:32:47.061
but because I came up and introduced myself, they were totally willing to listen

00:32:47.061 –> 00:32:53.561
to me and immediately incorporate that feedback into how they were shooting that day.

00:32:53.681 –> 00:32:58.341
And I got a lot of pats on the back and thank yous for that.

00:32:58.481 –> 00:33:01.741
So that was a good part of that role as well. Oh yeah.

00:33:02.221 –> 00:33:06.101
Outside of being a rain safety officer, absolutely. and I’ve had people come

00:33:06.101 –> 00:33:11.541
and say, hey, can you teach my son and wife to shoot? Because they just won’t listen to me.

00:33:11.981 –> 00:33:16.481
They just won’t listen to me. But some perfectly good stranger they’ll listen

00:33:16.481 –> 00:33:18.101
to and follow immediately.

00:33:18.361 –> 00:33:22.561
And, you know, that was the great thing too. And not to toot my own horn because

00:33:22.561 –> 00:33:27.081
it just happened to be circumstance, but I had a lot of situations where I’d

00:33:27.081 –> 00:33:32.181
go up and give tips or pointers, tricks, whatever it was that I was doing

00:33:32.595 –> 00:33:36.595
telling the individual and it wasn’t just, you know, women or,

00:33:36.595 –> 00:33:41.675
or young ladies that I was telling this to whoever it was, but they immediately

00:33:41.675 –> 00:33:44.775
saw improvement in what they were doing out on that range too.

00:33:44.955 –> 00:33:49.235
So it’s not just about criticizing someone cause they’re not following the rules.

00:33:49.235 –> 00:33:52.875
It’s about building the community and making better shooters,

00:33:53.015 –> 00:33:55.375
hopefully at the end of the day. Yes, absolutely.

00:33:56.075 –> 00:34:02.715
So for me, you know, I asked the question, what can you do to support your range safety officers.

00:34:02.995 –> 00:34:08.595
And I think the first one is being open to feedback and not getting offensive.

00:34:08.875 –> 00:34:14.235
Like if you’re doing something the RSO deems potentially unsafe or is blatantly

00:34:14.235 –> 00:34:20.495
unsafe, not to be standoffish, not to act like you’re the one that knows better than they do,

00:34:20.875 –> 00:34:24.555
you know your gun’s unloaded, whatever the situation is.

00:34:24.555 –> 00:34:29.235
I think one of the things that you can absolutely do to support any range safety

00:34:29.235 –> 00:34:32.715
officer that’s out there working for you, because that’s what they’re really

00:34:32.715 –> 00:34:37.695
doing at the end of the day, is to be open to their feedback and their direction.

00:34:37.935 –> 00:34:41.175
What would you say is something that you can do to support them?

00:34:41.355 –> 00:34:45.895
I would agree with you. The first thing is being receptive and open, right?

00:34:46.015 –> 00:34:50.795
Don’t take offense when range safety officer is correcting you because he’s

00:34:50.795 –> 00:34:54.735
looking out for your safety and welfare as long as everyone else on the range.

00:34:54.895 –> 00:34:58.095
So I think that’s the main thing to support your range safety officer.

00:34:58.455 –> 00:35:03.235
I’ve had people after giving them correction, tell them that they’re doing something

00:35:03.235 –> 00:35:05.655
that’s against the range rule, really get upset about it.

00:35:06.182 –> 00:35:09.902
Yeah, and so be open and willing to take that feedback because at the end of

00:35:09.902 –> 00:35:15.522
the day, they’re not only trying to make you maybe not a better shooter,

00:35:15.562 –> 00:35:20.942
but certainly hopefully a safer shooter, not just for you, but for everyone around you.

00:35:20.942 –> 00:35:25.402
So you may think you’re safe, but if the range safety officer on duty sees something

00:35:25.402 –> 00:35:27.962
that they think is unsafe or potentially unsafe.

00:35:28.282 –> 00:35:33.482
It’s good to take their input and feedback and process it and incorporate it

00:35:33.482 –> 00:35:37.402
into whatever it is you’re doing and not get an attitude about it.

00:35:37.562 –> 00:35:42.862
I think that’s really the biggest thing that you can do to support the RSO.

00:35:43.022 –> 00:35:45.622
And just know that the RSO is there to support you.

00:35:45.842 –> 00:35:50.102
Like, he’s not just, again, he’s not there just to make you a safer shooter.

00:35:50.102 –> 00:35:52.822
He’s got everybody else on that range in

00:35:52.822 –> 00:35:56.342
mind too because you’re not the only one they’re shooting yes

00:35:56.342 –> 00:35:59.202
sir not a

00:35:59.202 –> 00:36:02.062
whole lot more to say about that is there no there isn’t

00:36:02.062 –> 00:36:08.582
really listen to your local friendly rso yep absolutely so so what are some

00:36:08.582 –> 00:36:14.362
tips and takes a takeaways being rso i i know a couple for me that come to mind

00:36:14.362 –> 00:36:19.322
is obviously listen to the rso and the other one that I think we experienced,

00:36:19.442 –> 00:36:24.062
and we don’t have to go down in the rabbit hole on this, but if there is a conflict,

00:36:24.062 –> 00:36:28.802
and what I’m thinking about is the range and the RSOs that they have on duty,

00:36:28.822 –> 00:36:33.922
if there is a conflict, someone doesn’t see eye to eye and what’s being addressed

00:36:33.922 –> 00:36:36.642
or critiqued is to not…

00:36:37.483 –> 00:36:42.023
Have the debate and argument in front of the client, in front of the customer

00:36:42.023 –> 00:36:48.543
out on range, take that offline, deal with it later, go with whoever’s got the

00:36:48.543 –> 00:36:52.163
authority out on range at the time that the feedback was given.

00:36:52.323 –> 00:36:59.723
And so I’d say those are my two biggest tips and takeaways related to RSOing.

00:36:59.863 –> 00:37:01.183
What would you say are yours?

00:37:01.583 –> 00:37:05.163
You know, I think when it comes to that, But one of the main things,

00:37:05.243 –> 00:37:10.723
again, is what does the range SLP, because I’ve had an incident with that and,

00:37:10.743 –> 00:37:15.023
you know, the particular range, yeah, the range that we went to, you know.

00:37:15.703 –> 00:37:21.903
SLP says that if there’s an issue, the range safety officer has the last ruling.

00:37:21.903 –> 00:37:27.003
But if that person doesn’t feel that the ruling is just or has a problem with

00:37:27.003 –> 00:37:30.623
the ruling, then they should go outside of the range, like you mentioned,

00:37:30.783 –> 00:37:33.703
and talk to the staff on hand,

00:37:34.043 –> 00:37:38.963
the range manager or shop manager, and take it up with them.

00:37:38.963 –> 00:37:44.023
And so not to take the range safety officer attention away from,

00:37:44.023 –> 00:37:45.903
you know, his duties on the range, right?

00:37:46.043 –> 00:37:49.023
Because the range safety officer can’t be a range safety officer if he’s in

00:37:49.023 –> 00:37:52.643
there arguing with someone over a decision he’s made. Right.

00:37:53.143 –> 00:37:57.603
Absolutely. And that’s a fantastic point. And I think the other part of that

00:37:57.603 –> 00:38:02.443
is that if you have those debates and arguments in front of the customers,

00:38:02.703 –> 00:38:05.863
then you erode the authority that the RSO has.

00:38:05.863 –> 00:38:10.683
And I think you want to avoid that at all costs, because then people just figure,

00:38:10.803 –> 00:38:13.423
hey, we can do what we want to do anyway at this point in time.

00:38:13.543 –> 00:38:19.663
And that’s not good, because what the RSO says should go, and then any issues

00:38:19.663 –> 00:38:24.183
with that or debates on that should happen offline, and then you’re better prepared

00:38:24.183 –> 00:38:26.983
the next time for it. Yes, absolutely.

00:38:27.483 –> 00:38:33.983
So in closing, I just want to cover the top four gun safety rules that we should

00:38:33.983 –> 00:38:38.323
all be adhering to and following at all times. Do you want to take these? Do you want me to?

00:38:39.104 –> 00:38:43.804
We should know them, right? I’ll let you close it out. All right.

00:38:44.004 –> 00:38:49.944
Number one, treat all firearms as if they were loaded at all times.

00:38:49.944 –> 00:38:55.364
And if you listen to our very first podcast, you know that I’m of the opinion

00:38:55.364 –> 00:38:59.824
that that rule in and of itself kind of sets precedence for all others.

00:38:59.824 –> 00:39:04.764
If you treat, even if you quote unquote know that firearm’s unloaded,

00:39:04.904 –> 00:39:11.064
if you treat it as though it were loaded, then you’re set up better for success and being safer.

00:39:11.544 –> 00:39:17.504
The second rule of gun safety is keep your finger off the trigger until you’re

00:39:17.504 –> 00:39:20.004
ready to shoot. And that means just that.

00:39:20.164 –> 00:39:24.164
Keep the finger off the trigger and outside that trigger guard until you’re

00:39:24.164 –> 00:39:26.284
ready to engage whatever target you’re shooting.

00:39:26.284 –> 00:39:29.144
And number three is be aware of

00:39:29.144 –> 00:39:31.824
the muzzle at all times the business end of

00:39:31.824 –> 00:39:34.784
the firearm and do not point it in anything that you

00:39:34.784 –> 00:39:39.984
are not willing to destroy or kill and number four is is being sure of your

00:39:39.984 –> 00:39:44.844
target and what’s beyond it and by beyond it i mean beyond it beside it around

00:39:44.844 –> 00:39:49.004
it or whatever you want to know what it is you’re shooting and what potentially

00:39:49.004 –> 00:39:54.244
is beyond it so that you’re able to make a better call as to whether or not you should shoot or not,

00:39:54.764 –> 00:39:59.684
And so those are the four most important top gun safety rules in my mind.

00:40:00.104 –> 00:40:02.424
Dennis, is there anything you want to add at this point?

00:40:03.544 –> 00:40:05.964
No, I don’t, but I’d like to thank you for having me on again.

00:40:05.984 –> 00:40:07.944
It’s always a pleasure and fun.

00:40:08.404 –> 00:40:12.304
Yeah, absolutely. It’s fun. If nothing else, we get to talk about stuff we enjoy,

00:40:12.304 –> 00:40:14.104
and I appreciate you doing this with me.

00:40:14.244 –> 00:40:21.384
I like conversation better than I like just talking to the microphone myself. So this is always good.

00:40:21.904 –> 00:40:24.824
I appreciate you doing this for sure. For sure.

00:40:25.164 –> 00:40:29.224
I have yet to get used to the microphone. So it’s always good to actually have

00:40:29.224 –> 00:40:31.824
a conversation with someone else other than myself.

00:40:32.944 –> 00:40:38.084
So with that, we’ll end this episode 19. And Denis, I want to thank you once

00:40:38.084 –> 00:40:40.184
again for being on with us. You’re welcome.

00:40:40.844 –> 00:40:44.424
Thanks so much, guys. If you like what you’re listening to, be sure to tell

00:40:44.424 –> 00:40:45.464
your friends and family.

00:40:45.624 –> 00:40:50.404
If we can get one bit of information out there that makes you think more about

00:40:50.404 –> 00:40:53.684
something you haven’t before or makes you employ something you haven’t before,

00:40:53.744 –> 00:40:56.304
then we’ve done our jobs and that’s great. So thanks so much.

00:40:56.240 –> 00:41:17.625
Music.