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Music.

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Hello and welcome to the inaugural podcast for the Self-Initiative Project,

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where we’re going to be talking about all things personal safety,

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self-defense, firearms, first aid, and all related areas of interest.

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Welcome and thanks for listening in. I’m your host, Jim O’Brien.

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So yeah, before we get started, we wanted to kind of tell you a little bit about us.

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The Self-Initiative Project was founded on the simple premise that we are all

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responsible for our own personal safety and preparedness, along with that of our loved ones.

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We started this podcast in the hopes of getting some good information out there

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for people, and in the process, maybe even be able to dispel some of the bad

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information floating around these days.

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And if we can help one person by giving them one, maybe even two bits of information

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that they can take away that helps them in some way, or makes them think about

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things more, more than we’ve done our jobs, and we hope you can get behind that with us.

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Now we’re going to get started, so sit back, relax, and have a listen.

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And if you like what you hear, tell your friends and family so they can have a listen too.

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This evening we’ll be talking about all things gun safety, and I’m fortunate

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enough to have my good friend Dennis Haynes on with us this evening.

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Dennis, how are you? Welcome, and thanks for joining us. Well,

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thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

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I’m honored to be part of your first podcast.

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I know this has been a long time coming, right? And I’m pretty excited as you

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are to go ahead and do this.

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Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you being on. Thank you for being on.

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And thanks for all of our listeners to being on too.

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You know, gun safety, when we think of gun safety, we think about those just

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in the gun community and how important it is for those of us who handle guns,

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shoot guns, whether whether it’s for hunting or target practice or competition

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or just general recreation or self-defense,

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you know, gun safety is of utmost importance.

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But the interesting part is, is even those that are for gun control,

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gun control advocates can also benefit from gun safety.

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So this podcast is really meant for everyone inside and outside the gun community.

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And I think that’s a good thing.

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Before we get started, I don’t just want to have friends on the podcast.

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There’s a good reason why I’m having you on, and I want the people to know who

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you are and what your background is and why you’re on here with me this evening.

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Let’s talk about you for a few minutes.

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Okay. I guess I can’t say I’m not used to talking about myself,

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but I’m a 15-year Marine veteran, combat veteran, was a Marine Infantry Platoon

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Sergeant on weapons platoon.

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And out of the 15 years that I served, nine years of that, I shot rifle and pistol competition.

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I also instructed while I was in the Marine Corps, a couple of different courses,

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most of which was based around weapons handling, total weapon systems, M60 machine gun.

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And then after that, you know, it’s so funny being into weapons and guns my

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entire career as a Marine.

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When I got out, I got married and we had a young child.

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And my wife, who was also a Navy corpsman, so she was used to being around weapons

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and her family hunted quite a bit. that she just didn’t feel comfortable having

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any guns in the house with a young child.

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And I understood that. So for years, to be exact, 16 years, I went without handling any weapons.

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I just kind of fell to the wayside and focused on the family and whatnot.

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And when my son turned 16, I went out and bought a .22 rifle,

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and we started shooting and going out to the farm and put some rounds downrange.

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And I realized as we were shooting, you know, I lost a little bit of some of

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the basics behind marksmanship and gun safety.

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And that kind of drove me to do a little bit more research and make sure I was up on the latest.

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And because of that, I ended up becoming a NRA instructor.

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Where I’m certified to teach basic pistol shooting and safety.

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And also I became a range safety officer, certified NRA range safety officer.

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And over the years, I’ve just pretty much researched and made sure I was up

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on speed on the latest techniques and handling, not just for range shooting,

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but for personal protection and defensive shooting.

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And then again, just keeping up to speed on the latest safety techniques,

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rules, right? Seeing things that people do.

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I’m a big advocate of learning from others’ mistakes.

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And you know, I just try to keep up on those kinds of things. Sure.

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And you know, it’s so funny because you and I got our NRA certifications for

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basic pistol and range safety officer about the same time.

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Of course, we went through basics pistol together. And I think the rain safety

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officer, we did a little bit differently, but I remember back and you,

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you probably remember this too.

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I remember back when we first, both of us, well, me, especially first started

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getting back into guns and enjoying shooting, you know, more on a just recreational

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or target shooting basis.

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I remember talking to you the first time saying, man, you really ought to start

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looking at some of these things and getting you signed up.

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And I remember, I remember at a point you said, no, I’m done with guns.

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I’ve shot all the guns I’m going to do. I’ve done too much with guns.

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And now all this time later now, here we are. Yeah.

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With a couple in our collection and talking about gun safety together.

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So that’s cool. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

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Those firearms correctly. And so I don’t really care how well someone shoots

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that comes in time with practice and work and effort, but getting those safety rules,

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those four basic safety rules down is really key. And we’ll talk more about those in a minute.

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You know, the media and Hollywood saturates us with so much misinformation and

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bad information and a lot of misguided.

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And, you know, Hollywood does a disservice showing guns being mishandled in

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just about every movie or TV and very seldom is a television show or a movie

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portray guns being handled in a proper manner.

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I mean, can you remember the last time you saw a movie where the whether it’s

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a good guy or a bad guy didn’t have his finger on the trigger if he was holding

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the gun? Oh, you know, it’s so funny.

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It’s because my friends and family really dislike going to action movies with

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me because I am constantly sitting in the seat going, oh, that’s wrong.

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You see him flag that guy?

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Right. Muzzles flagging across everybody, fingers on the trigger.

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Everything that we’re taught not to do, you see constantly in Hollywood because

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in Hollywood, at the end of the day, you don’t get hurt, you know?

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But, you know, in saying that, though, right, Hollywood portrays what real people

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do, because unless you’re conscious of or have a conscious of gun safety,

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you’re going to do exactly what Hollywood’s showing.

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I bet you that if you went out there and saw the average Joe out there handling a weapon,

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they would probably break those, you know, top four safety rules because a lot

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of people don’t think about safety. Safety is usually secondary, right?

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Or, you know, I should say not to the forefront.

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You know, that’s a really good point. I hadn’t thought of that that way.

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Those of us that handle firearms, weapons, whatever we want to refer to them

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as firearms, let’s say for the sake of this, you know, we’re used to that.

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And that’s at the forefront of what we’re doing when we’re handling whatever

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type of shooting we’re doing.

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And I think you hit the nail on the head. Hollywood really does portray what

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the common public might.

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Be doing most of the time or think most of the time, because they don’t handle firearms a lot.

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And when they do go to the range, they think, oh, nothing’s going to happen

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to me. Or, you know, I got to do something really crazy for something to go wrong.

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But, you know, interestingly enough, I was working the range just a couple of

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months ago as a range safety officer or an RSO, as they call us.

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And a gentleman and two lady friends of his went in the range.

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They were first in on the the range that morning and he had a firearm on his hip, open carry.

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And he was standing around one of the tables, you know, we have out there on

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the range and he draws his weapon from his holster. Now I didn’t see all this happen.

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I was inside at the sink in between and in, in the room in between the range

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and the main sales floor.

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And I suddenly heard this loud bang, you know, I knew a gun had gone off.

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And the first thing I did was check myself. self.

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And the next thing I did was open the door and I knew I was going to see,

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you know, something I didn’t want to see, you know, possibly some blood or somebody down on the floor.

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And the guy comes out and he’s white as a ghost, right?

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And he had drawn his weapon from his open holster.

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And because he couldn’t remember if it was loaded or not, he pulled the trigger

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to check to see whether it was loaded or not.

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And subsequently shot a hole through his, one of his friends, leather purses.

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And in the back of one of our walls there off to the side behind the table,

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you know, the one, as soon as you walk in the door, they’re the one to the left.

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And he just got lucky, right? Because it could have been himself.

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It could have been the lady friend that happened to be standing to the right

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of him or to the left of him.

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So he got lucky, But it serves to remind us that, you know, bad things can happen

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and negligent discharges, as they say, in these can happen to any of us.

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But it’s just serves as a reminder that we really have to handle those firearms safely at all times.

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They’re not Nerf guns. They’re not toys.

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It’s not a cartoon. It’s not Hollywood.

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You know, we can get hurt. And he just got lucky.

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He put a hole through, you know, semi expensive leather purse and into the wall.

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And he’s lucky he didn’t hurt himself or one of his friends so just serves as

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a reminder and we see it all the time yeah you know.

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That goes back to what we talked about, the safety rules. And,

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you know, whether you’re looking at the NRA safety rules or anybody else’s safety

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rules, right, the basics of rule number one is, you know, always treat a gun as it’s loaded,

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whether that means pointed in a safe direction or, you know.

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Absolutely. Whatever, right? But I’ve seen a lot of things, too, at the range.

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I’ve seen people, you know, fire around downrange or think they fire around

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downrange, pull the trigger, nothing happens, and they look down the barrel to see what happened.

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Right. Did that bullet come out of there? Yeah, it’s amazing.

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Or I see people shooting and get so excited, you know, finger on the trigger

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and turn around and face inward, you know, waving the gun around because they’re

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excited because they hit a piece of paper.

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So, you know, one of the things and, you know, I know we’re going to talk about

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this as we continue, but, you know, one of the one of the folks that I followed

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and I think you have, too,

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is Jeff Cooper and read a quote of his not too long ago.

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And it says safety is something that happens between your ears.

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Nothing that whole it’s not something that you hold in your hand.

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Right. And what that means is, you know, is it’s the behavior and thought behind

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safety. That’s what rules safety. Okay.

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It’s not necessarily the weapon, but it’s the behavior.

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Yeah. I don’t think people, people understand that. They always think that,

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and especially these folks that don’t understand weapons, they always talk about

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the gun and whatnot, whether, you know, you have a mechanical safety,

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which, you know, most guns don’t, you know.

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It’s not the safety. It’s not the safety on the gun that makes the weapon safe.

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It’s the way you you handle, it’s the mentality behind the way you handle the gun.

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And that’s something that really has to be taught because it’s not something that we do naturally.

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And as we just spoke about, you know, Hollywood and the way people are and every

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day, that’s not on the forefront of folks.

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You know, they’re more interested on everything else, rounds going down range,

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but before they’re really concerned about safety.

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Absolutely. And we see that all the time as range safety officers.

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And we’re actually going to have a podcast on being a range safety officer and

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what that means and what that looks like, aren’t we? We’ve already decided on that.

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That’ll be separate. So we’ll definitely be talking more about that responsibility and that role.

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But yeah, you’re absolutely right. I think people, when they go to the range, whether indoor,

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outdoor, it doesn’t matter, they get so caught up in actually what the firearm

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does and putting those rounds down range that they forget the basics of handling

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that firearm and weapon.

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And so that’s what we’re here to talk about now.

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So you already mentioned the first safety rule, and this kind of ties into what

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Jeff Cooper put together for us all.

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And I think as a Marine, you’ll remember the first safety rules you’ve already

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mentioned is always treat the gun as if it was loaded as all times. And.

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I think that kind of sets the precedence, kind of sets the stage for everything else.

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Because if you remember that rule before all else, you’re going to be more likely

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to follow a couple of the subsequent rules,

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like being aware of the business end of the gun and making sure the muzzle’s

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pointed in a safe direction at all times and keeping your finger off the trigger

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until you’re actually ready to shoot.

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But that first rule really sets the precedence for all the others.

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Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So if you treat the gun as it’s loaded,

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right, then you’re more conscious of where the muzzle’s pointed and what you’re doing with the gun.

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But again, it’s a behavior that people who aren’t used to handling guns have to get used to.

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Everything else is secondary. Absolutely.

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Absolutely. You got to remember the weapon is, if you treat it as though it’s

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loaded at all times, then you’re more likely to watch what it is you’re doing

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when you’re handling that firearm at all times.

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Rule number two, let’s talk about rule number two, and we’ll get through these

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first four, which I think are critical.

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And then there’s, there’s actually 10 or 12 rules depending on the source of

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the rules. And we’ll talk about that.

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So Jeff Cooper said, number one is always Always treat the weapon as if it was loaded at all times.

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Number two is, and this is a big one for me, especially we’ve seen on the range,

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always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

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I think that’s so important. Whether the slide’s open, you know the magazine’s

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out, whether you know it’s unloaded, you quote unquote know it’s unloaded.

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If you remember rule number one, the gun is actually always loaded at all times,

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then then you want to make extra specially sure that you’re not flagging someone,

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meaning pointing the muzzle towards something that you don’t want to shoot.

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And that’s, that’s equally as important. Yeah. Now, you know.

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The one thing where we, the one thing that we don’t do together is I enjoy hunting and I find that.

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I don’t want to kill Bambi, man. I know.

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I find though, when I go hunting, you know, one of the things that I consider

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when I go hunting with someone else is how safe they are.

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Yeah absolutely i actually talked

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to them about safety right whether or

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not we’re wearing vests which you know you should be hats you

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know their ideas behind gun safety you know

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if we’re doing bird shooting in the shotguns

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breach you make sure that you know the barrel still pointed away

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from folks you know you get people still out there especially when

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you go deer hunting for me you know that uh just because

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they don’t have a round in the chamber they think it’s okay to

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flag somebody well it’s not loaded well that doesn’t matter

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right doesn’t matter because guess what there’s rule number one yeah and i’ve

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actually walked away from hunting with what particular person because he continued

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to do it and i said god you’re making me nervous yeah i’m just going to go to

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the truck he didn’t he didn’t understand that right i had to explain to him that, you know,

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you’re not absolutely sure,

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you know, how do I know that, you know, and he had a bolt action,

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so the bolt was always home, right? How do I know there’s not a round in the chamber?

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Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, off topic a little bit, but we both ride motorcycles, right?

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And it’s kind of like riding motorcycles with others. If you’re riding in a

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pack or riding with an individual that’s not safe, that isn’t safety conscious,

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that’s unaware or just doesn’t care of those around them, then,

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you know, you might want to choose not to ride with them. It’s kind of the same to your point.

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It’s kind of the same with firearm handling, with gun handling, right?

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If you know someone’s not safe, you either need to make sure they understand

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what the rules are, but if they continue not to follow them,

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then you need to make a choice for you and or your loved ones if you’re around

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them while they’re handling those firearms. arms.

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So yeah, number three is just as important as the first two.

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Always keep your finger off the trigger until you’re ready to shoot.

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And what that means, again, is not just keeping your finger resting lightly

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on the trigger. Oh, no, no, no.

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You want to keep your finger off the trigger completely and outside the trigger guard.

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And that in combination with the first two rules really helps us ensure that

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we’re not going to accidentally shoot ourselves or someone else.

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Well, you know, I’m guilty of this one. I’ve had a negligent discharge a couple of times.

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Luckily, because I was following rules number one and two, you know,

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it wasn’t fatal or anything.

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But I’ve had incidences where out in the field or even at the range have had

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my finger on the trigger and the gun went off.

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And in these particular incidents, I was handling weapons that had one to two

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pound trigger pulls, two pound trigger pulls.

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One time out in the field was trying out a new sniper rifle and didn’t realize

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how light the trigger was, was focused in and just resting my finger there allowed

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the round to go down range.

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And it went down range unintentionally.

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That’ll get your attention. Right. I didn’t mean for it to go down range.

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Right. But the trigger was so light that, you know, barely resting as I was

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preparing to shoot, the round went off. It startled me and startled the people

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behind me, but it made me think, you know, good thing I had this thing pointed

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downrange. Yeah, absolutely.

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So, you know, it’s very important, you know, to follow the rules,

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right, as they apply, one and two especially.

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And then, you know, keeping your finger off the trigger until you intend to

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pull the trigger is a great another safety rule.

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Well, you know, I appreciate your honesty about having a negligent discharge

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because I too have had a negligent discharge and I was lucky.

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You know, I think the positive your situation was is that A,

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you probably walked away learning a lesson and B, and most importantly,

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your muzzle was pointed in a safe direction. It was pointed down range.

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I had a similar situation at the range where a gentleman and his son were shooting.

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A AR type platform, 22 caliber together, sharing some good, good shooting time together.

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And they had a malfunction with the firearm and asked me to come help them.

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And the father had set the firearm down on the table in their alley, in their aisle.

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And I picked it up and without, I don’t know what I was thinking,

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you know, accidents happen.

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And of course it was not an accident, negligence. I understand that.

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I pulled the trigger. I think I was checking to see if it had been cleared instead

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of going through the proper technique.

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So to your point you made earlier, you really do have to have the mindset,

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not just memorize the rules, but really have the mindset to understand why the rules are in place.

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And when you’ve got a firearm in your hand, make sure you’re adhering to them at all time.

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But again, the positive is, is that we probably Probably both walked away from

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our negligent discharges, thinking we’ll never let that happen again.

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And in both of our cases, the muzzle was pointed downrange and away from anything

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we weren’t willing to destroy.

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Most importantly, ourselves or some other person.

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Well, you know, I think we both know of a story where we know of someone holstering

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a weapon and had their finger on the trigger and it went off.

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Absolutely. Unfortunately, that was a bad scene.

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So, you know, it’s really you have to be conscious of your actions, right?

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Safety, in some terms, can be subconscious if you’re used to doing it because

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it becomes second nature, but still should be at the forefront, right?

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You should still be very conscious of your movements and your behavior when

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you’re handling a weapon. Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think, you know, for a lot of people, you know, I like to think that most

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people are not apathetic when it comes to firearms.

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But, you know, I think a lot of people get in the habit of, oh,

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it won’t happen to me or I know the firearm is unloaded or, you know, whatever it might be.

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And the point is, is, yeah, those things may be true, but the redundancy and

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the effort and the mindset never hurt.

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It’s always safer to be safe than not.

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Jeff Cooper’s fourth rule, be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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Yeah. So, you know, as Cooper mentions, make sure you know what you’re shooting at. Right. Right.

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Yeah. Make sure your targets possibly are identified. And, you know,

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like you said, in hunting, and that’s been my biggest fear, I have purposely

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missed a good shot because the target wasn’t clear.

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It wasn’t clearly identified to me. especially when you

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go pick and I’ve gone boar hunting at night

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several times and I see a shadow I know

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there’s nothing else out there my mind tells

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me it’s nothing but that I guess safety

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rules so until I can clearly identify what it is I’m shooting at I won’t pull

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the trigger and I’ve missed several shots because of that but I’m okay with

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that it may not have been a boar Or it may have been a dog. It may have been anything.

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Right. I don’t know until I can clearly identify that.

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I find that rule to come in place a lot when you’re hunting, you know, at the range.

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Yeah. You got to know, you know, what’s in front of you.

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But hunting, I think that that rule really plays a big role.

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And as you mentioned, competition shooting. Right. Make sure that,

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you know, the field of view is clear. And even in the military,

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that was one of our big rules, is making sure you identify the target.

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You start shooting big caliber guns, .50 cal, M60, that round’s going to travel.

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So you’ve got to make sure you know where your target is, identify the target,

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and make sure what’s beyond the target.

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Yeah, that’s a great point. And I think with hunting, that’s especially key.

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You know, don’t take the shot on the deer or the boar or whatever it is,

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unless you’re sure that of what’s beyond that target.

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And most importantly, no one else is behind that target.

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And that also carries over into the self-defense world.

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You know, a lot of us think, you know, the good guy is going to shoot the bad guy no matter what.

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And, you know, that’s not necessarily the case.

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You are responsible for every round that you release from your firearm,

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and especially in self-defense.

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If you don’t have a clear shot, your family, friends, or public, or around,

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or nearby, or behind the bad person, you don’t want to take that shot because

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bad people don’t care about whether or not they hit an innocent bystander or not.

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But as a law-abiding citizen in a self-defense scenario or protecting third

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party or, you know, whatever the scenario might be, you’ve got to be cognizant

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of your surroundings and what’s beyond,

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what might be hit by that range you send down range.

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So absolutely key. Just to recap, number one is always treat the weapon as if

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it was loaded at all times. And I think that just kind of sets the precedence for everything else.

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Number two is always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

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Be aware of that muzzle at all times.

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Be extra cautious and make extra effort when you’re handling your firearms so

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you know where that muzzle is and you’re not flagging people around you or animals

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around you, whatever it might be.

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Number three is always keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you’re

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ready to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard.

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And number four of Colonel Jeff Cooper’s gun safety rules is always be sure

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of your target and what is beyond it.

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You only shoot when you are absolutely certain of your target and everything behind it is clear.

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With that, we’ve reached a good stopping point for our inaugural podcast on gun safety.

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This will be part one of a two-part series where Dennis is going to be coming

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back to continue talking about all things gun safety.

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Safety we’ve started with arguably the top

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most important gun safety rules there are but

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in part two we’ll continue by talking about

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range safety hunting safety gun

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shop safety and etiquette safety for your children as well as cleaning your

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firearm and how that ties back into all things gun safety we appreciate you

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joining us and hope that you’ve liked what you’ve heard here be sure to tell

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your friends and family about us and let them have a listen too.

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And we look forward to having you the next time. Thanks so much for joining us.

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Music.