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Music.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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I’m your host, Jim O’Brien. Welcome back.

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This is part two of all things training versus gear with Van Sealy.

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All right, so we’ve kind of made it a point that hopefully folks are picking up on.

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You should spend your time and money in training first and then gear.

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But let’s be fair and, And, you know, the industry kind of promotes the gear, right?

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That’s how they make business, you know, how they make money,

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how they make their business.

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What, how, how should I go about buying gear? Like what’s, what’s the right angle to take with that?

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Well, when you’re, when you’re looking at gear and I look, look at this back

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when I was first, you know, young recon, you know, new, new to a team.

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And I talked about the dinosaurs before that had the Vietnam era harnesses and

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rucksacks and all this other stuff.

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And, you know, it’s what was what was my mission? What was what did I need equipment for?

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And it was very specific usage. If we were doing a deep reconnaissance patrol,

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we’re carrying 80 pounds of equipment.

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Equipment and I got to be able to carry that and get to the objective and be

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able to physically be able to do something, not just fall over,

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you know, like a, you know, a dead cockroach lay on my back and never get up

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because the equipment just broke me in half.

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Right. So when I get firearms and equipment, you know, when you separate handguns

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and carbines and shotguns and

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all those things that we’re going to use for personal home defense, you.

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We all have a budget. I mean, some of us are a little bit more liberal with our budget than others.

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You know, some have significant others at home.

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So you’re stuffing money into a soft drawer, you know, to kind of accumulate

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enough money to buy the gadgets or the guns or whatever that you want.

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So training, absolutely. Training and practice. If I obviously don’t know what

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the heck you’re doing, you’ve got to get training.

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You’ve got to get formalized training by somebody that knows what they’re doing.

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They may not be the perfect instructor.

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You don’t need to spend $350, you know, but once you know, have a base,

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you know, I know how to shoot.

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I know we’ll use a handgun as an example.

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So I know that when I went and bought a handgun, I bought a baseline handgun.

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I’m just going to, you know, we’ll go back to the Glock thing again,

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you know, because you understand Glock. When they hear Glock,

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they know what we’re talking about. out.

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So let’s just talk a Glock. And the Glock I was buying was for personal protection.

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I was going to carry it. I was going to keep it in my car.

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I was going to keep it in my house. It’s going to be my bedside gun. It would do everything.

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Well, if I’ve got a budget and I want to focus money on things,

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I know I need to practice. So I know I need to get to the range.

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The more skill level I have, meaning the more knowledge I have in this firearm,

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I don’t have to practice three, four times a week.

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You know, I might be able to do statement practice, but what am I using it for?

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What’s more important? You know, $150 for nightlights, a flashlight.

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It really depends. It depends on your philosophy. You know, do I need $100 or $150 nightlights?

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There’s plenty of companies out there that make $70, $80 set of nightlights.

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There’s nightlights that glow in the dark.

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There’s plenty of companies that make handheld flashlights for $15,

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$20 that you can get at the gas station.

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I wouldn’t buy one because if the gas station buys one, it’s probably the drive

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home alone hard to use in practice.

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But let’s just generically say weapons mounted light.

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So there’s companies out there you can get on Amazon, $20, $30,

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$40, $50 for a flashlight.

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It’s a screw on the bottom of your handgun. You know, there’s also companies

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that make the $20, $30, $40, $50 lasers that screw on the body of your handgun,

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but you’ve got to prioritize.

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You don’t want all these gadgets on your gun to begin with if you’re not going to practice with them.

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So if I put night sights on my gun, every time I shoot my gun,

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I practice with them because I’m seeing them.

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But am I practicing with night sights or not? because when I go to the range,

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is the shooting stall lights on? Is the entire range lit?

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Yeah, it is. So I’m not practicing with my night sights. I’m just practicing with my sight.

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Same thing with a flashlight. You know, do I go to the range?

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Do I learn to turn my flashlight on and off?

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Do I learn how to use a handheld flashlight in my support hand when shooting with my primary hand?

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Hand, you still have to pick one or both and then still practice with both or

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get training in proper application.

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There’s no, my philosophies on night sights are, would I rather see my sight?

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And this is where I get in arguments with, would I rather see my sights or I’d

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rather illuminate the target and then know what I’m shooting at?

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I can, what if scenarios, home invasion scenarios, gas station,

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you know, walking in and out of a convenience store, walking in and out of a

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club in Atlanta, not that I go clubbing.

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I see myself applying the use of my handgun.

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You know, if I’m in a movie theater, you know, and God forbid something ever

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happens there, what is the application of, you know, can I see what I’m shooting

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at in a movie theater with night sights?

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Night sights don’t illuminate a target. Night sights illuminate your sights.

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If I, in my opinion, if I can’t see the target, it doesn’t matter if I can see my sights on my gun.

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I don’t pull the trigger. Yeah, let’s get on with it.

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Professionally, and I’m not saying I’m not a lawyer, but you’re responsible

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for every round that comes out of that muzzle. Absolutely.

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If you’re not seeing a target clearly, then you’re not engaging a target accurately.

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Yeah. If you have a flashlight or weapons-mounted light, I can see my sights.

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It’s contrasting sights. The target is contrasting to my sights.

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It may not be the perfect sight picture. It may not be as pronounced as I want

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it to be, but my gun is pointed at the target that I’ve identified.

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Somebody kicks in the door in my house and my daughter is running around.

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She’s going crazy. She doesn’t know what’s going on.

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I just don’t blindly shoot at shadows if my entire house is blacked out.

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I want to see what I’m going to engage. That’s why when I prioritize one over

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the other, if you have to make a choice, then I would lean more towards a light,

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a flashlight of some sort.

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Weapon mounted light, handheld light, that’s an argument for technique.

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That’s an argument for a method in which you can use both.

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I can’t point a flashlight in a direction where my gun isn’t if it’s attached to my gun.

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But i can also use the light as

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a aiming tool to aim my firearm if it

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is attached again this comes down to training

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and practice is to learning a technique and then mastering that particular technique

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based off of the equipment that i have if i don’t have a flashlight i don’t

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have the if i have night sights now the issue is they’re in a dark room i’m

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in a dark room i can’t see And they can’t see me.

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Well, that’s still fine because they can’t hurt me if they can’t see me. Right.

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But I can’t take care of the threat that can progress to be put me in more danger.

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So that’s why, professionally speaking, I prioritize the flashlight overnight side.

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I’m kind of free enough in the industry to where I can afford both,

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you know. But if you’ve ever seen my carry gun, I don’t have night sights on my carry gun.

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I have fiber optic front sight on my carry gun with a blacked out ledge rear

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sight, and that’s based off of how I train and my application of which.

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If I’m doing a lot of full-time range shooting, being able to see that front

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sight quicker where I can learn over time instinctively how to point that gun,

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I’ve accomplished what I need

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to to be able to point my gun in the direction of a target or a threat.

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You know, lasers. Lasers are another thing. Well, lasers are going to scare people.

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So, you know, I don’t need to learn how to shoot my gun. I’m just going to scare

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them with a laser. Then buy a point that green laser downrange. It’ll be fine.

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Yeah. Just go, just go to the gas station, buy that $7 green laser key chain and don’t buy a gun.

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It’s kind of like the whole shotgun content. Now we’re getting into philosophies

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and thoughts, but it’s like the shotgun.

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Gun i’m going to get a pump shotgun because that sound

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is going to scare the bad guys well if that’s the case

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then just get a radio with machine gun fire screaming babies

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you know bombs going off if you think audible sounds

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are going to right well you know

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when i when i when i cock the shotgun van we

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know that that scares criminals away and that’s all

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i can worry about i just i just i just cock the

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pump shotgun and we’re done i don’t even have to fire a

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shot i don’t have to worry about any of that that’s why you need the recording

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of just playing that audible you don’t actually need a firearm that’s right

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you know it’s just play it just play it loud let’s use that shotgun analogy

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so i’m gonna use that audible to scare somebody off well what if that doesn’t work,

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So I get in a potential confrontation with a shotgun in close quarters with

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a pump shotgun that I spent zero time at the range learning how to load,

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unload, and clear malfunction.

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Now, that gun, because you bought it based off of this industry,

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you know, this myth that, you know, sounds are going to scare bad guys,

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lasers are going to scare bad guys.

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Not that they can’t, but I’m not betting my life on it. Absolutely not.

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Zero time training with it zero time practicing

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with it so now it’s just a baseball bat with

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five rounds of slug buckshot in the tube but

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you have a baseball bat because you don’t know how to operate it because you

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never practiced with it but hey counter said hey all you got to do well actually

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i think it was joe biden said all you need is a double barrel shotgun right

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and you just shoot it in the air right good air kill kill your uh your neighbor

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that was on the upper floor in your

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apartment building yeah so you know

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it’s you have to prioritize equipment when you’re

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dealing with you know choices if

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if you have to make choices so ars are one of those where it it you could put

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gadgets on ars for for days you know a lot of you’ve got these 15 inch rails

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and when you talk 15 inch rails with four sides to a rail you know that’s that’s 60 inches of

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rail space to add gadgets, vertical grips, angled floor grip,

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bipods, flashlight, lasers.

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Got a lot of space to add some gear, man.

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Throw, you know, backup irons, it’s magnified optic, red dot.

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And now you’re talking, it’s a 14 pound crew serve weapon that you’ve got zero

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training on and crap is falling off because one, the flashlight you got,

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the rail system doesn’t attach properly.

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The batteries don’t work because the battery cap is crappy because you bought a,

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you know, $17 made in taiwan piece

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of junk because it was it was a deal on amazon your bipod

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collapses when you put it on the range but you know

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it looks cool you know because it’s got those metal claws you gotta prioritize

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if that gun is just for bench shooting go ahead get a bipod if that gun is you

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know is if it’s a gun you shoot competitively then get all those cool comps

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or get all those cool you know, gadgets, barricade stops,

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and other things, if it enhances the application,

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and that’s where we bridge the gear.

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If you can add it, that will enhance the application of such,

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you know, firearm, like a handgun or rifle or shotgun.

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If it enhances the application based off the end state, home defense, personal carry.

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Competition shooting, target shooting, whatever,

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ever you know we we default to the whole defensive kind of mindset because i

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think that’s kind of where all most of our heads are you know yeah it wouldn’t

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be stations if we were you know you know five yard bullseye shooter yeah that’s

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fair yeah you know i can’t see 25 yards anymore so.

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But but i think you may i think you make more good points right first of all

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gear does not preclude training.

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And even when you do get gear, when you get gear that’s going to fix all of

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your shooting issues and otherwise, you’re

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Training is still what gets you through, right? Because you just can’t slap

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and glue those things onto your weapon systems and it work out for you.

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You still need to train and get familiar with them and become proficient at

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them for them to work for you in the situations that you’re planning for.

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Yeah, you hit it right there when you said familiarization and,

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you know, the application familiarization.

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You got to be familiar with this stuff. Like it’s a selector switch on an AR,

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you know, going from a Glock to a 1911 or a Glock to something with a mechanical safety.

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You know, I hear a lot of people on mechanical safeties on farms because they

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don’t trust themselves with a gun without a safety. Well, then you don’t need a gun.

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If you don’t practice with the safety under high stress situations,

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you’re not going to disengage a safety. So on AR, you can get these cool things

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or, you know, short throw lever safeties for an AR.

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Does that make me go from safe to fire quicker?

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No, it is milliseconds at best between the distance from safe to fire as I present the firearm.

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You know, again, that’s training and practice on how you transition a safety

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from safe to fire as you present a firearm.

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You don’t do it once the gun is up. You do it as you are moving the gun up.

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It takes longer to move the gun up.

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But what does that short throw lever, for example, do for you?

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Well, it makes it a heck of a lot easier to go from fire to back to safe because

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you don’t have to break the fighting grip.

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So that kind of piece of equipment will actually make things smoother in transition

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00:15:14,800 –> 00:15:16,920
based off of its application.

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00:15:19,323 –> 00:15:24,043
I would never leave my AR on, what was that, Blackhawk down?

214
00:15:24,243 –> 00:15:28,443
Where’s your safety there, Sergeant? This is my safety. My finger, right. Just the finger.

215
00:15:29,443 –> 00:15:34,903
Okay, I get that, but not when you don’t have control of the firearms control,

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00:15:35,003 –> 00:15:38,783
the pistol grip, which is right next to the trigger.

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If you don’t have control of that system, then that gun needs to be on safe

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00:15:42,763 –> 00:15:47,243
or the weapon needs to be in a safe configuration like a handgun and a holster.

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00:15:47,323 –> 00:15:49,123
It’s kind of like these guys with Glocks.

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They just stuff them down their pants with no holster. Well,

221
00:15:52,283 –> 00:15:55,603
you know, enjoy the trip to the emergency room because, you know,

222
00:15:55,623 –> 00:15:58,843
you’re going to have an accident eventually. Yeah, eventually it’s coming.

223
00:15:59,783 –> 00:16:04,243
You know, and so let’s talk about ARs. Well, optics.

224
00:16:04,723 –> 00:16:08,963
Optics are one of those where it’s almost, it’s more overwhelming than what

225
00:16:08,963 –> 00:16:10,903
night sights do I stick on my handgun?

226
00:16:11,063 –> 00:16:15,523
Yeah. Is it, what’s the advantage of a red dot over iron sights?

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00:16:15,523 –> 00:16:19,803
Well, I don’t have to focus on my look through the rear sight,

228
00:16:19,983 –> 00:16:23,203
do the mechanical visual equation of rear sight, front sight, target.

229
00:16:23,383 –> 00:16:28,803
I can just focus on the target using my dot essentially superimposed on the

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target. Now that visual equation is gone.

231
00:16:31,503 –> 00:16:33,883
So will that make you faster on target?

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Yes, because you’re not doing as much math.

233
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It’s not two plus two plus two equals six.

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It’s now six equals six. You don’t have an equation there. So the shorter your

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brain has to think and visualize things and process, things get faster.

236
00:16:52,303 –> 00:16:55,203
That’s the goal, get faster and get more accurate.

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00:16:55,543 –> 00:17:00,603
If what I’m either doing, either in training or practice, or equipment in which

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00:17:00,603 –> 00:17:04,023
I add to my primary firearm,

239
00:17:04,343 –> 00:17:08,403
handgun, rifle, shotgun, whatever, if that does not make me better,

240
00:17:08,523 –> 00:17:14,063
and I’m not saying out of the box make you better, you got to put in the time. Yeah.

241
00:17:14,583 –> 00:17:21,863
I’ve had guys get red dots on a handgun, and I gave it up, too,

242
00:17:21,983 –> 00:17:24,163
because I didn’t put in the time.

243
00:17:24,303 –> 00:17:30,003
The visual equation of presentation, I’m not seeing what I normally would see

244
00:17:30,003 –> 00:17:31,263
as I present the firearm.

245
00:17:31,423 –> 00:17:36,023
So if I’m not normally indexing the firearm the same way with the red dot,

246
00:17:36,163 –> 00:17:37,563
then it’s not going to make me faster.

247
00:17:37,743 –> 00:17:44,123
So I have to put in the time to relearn that because the sight height might be different. Yeah.

248
00:17:44,818 –> 00:17:49,658
The optic may be a little higher. So is it red dot versus magnified?

249
00:17:49,878 –> 00:17:51,078
Well, what’s the application?

250
00:17:51,358 –> 00:17:56,738
If your application is inside your home or inside a 25-yard range,

251
00:17:56,938 –> 00:18:00,938
I would probably be willing to bet that your money is better spent on a red

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00:18:00,938 –> 00:18:03,278
dot versus a magnified optic.

253
00:18:03,278 –> 00:18:08,358
If you’re looking to push it out a little bit further, the option of inside

254
00:18:08,358 –> 00:18:14,718
the home, then pick a low power variable power optic, like a 1-6, 1-8, 1-5 or something.

255
00:18:14,978 –> 00:18:19,418
If it’s 300 yards and then pressure buddies, you can shoot golf balls at 300

256
00:18:19,418 –> 00:18:23,658
yards, then you’re going to need a higher magnification optic for your rifle.

257
00:18:24,138 –> 00:18:27,238
So, again, it’s application. location and then

258
00:18:27,238 –> 00:18:30,118
you just advertise it’s even in those

259
00:18:30,118 –> 00:18:33,178
subclasses of optics it’s overwhelming

260
00:18:33,178 –> 00:18:36,398
is it the 50 nc star optic

261
00:18:36,398 –> 00:18:40,258
or is it the 1300 trigicon you

262
00:18:40,258 –> 00:18:45,858
know is there a difference between the two yeah 1250 bucks but you’re talking

263
00:18:45,858 –> 00:18:51,038
a whole lot more features with a better quality optic you know do i spend 50

264
00:18:51,038 –> 00:18:55,038
bucks on an optic now or put a little bit more money in software and get If

265
00:18:55,038 –> 00:18:59,978
the $200 dot that’s going to last me longer has a better warranty,

266
00:19:00,118 –> 00:19:05,098
has actually been used on a real firearm, not just an airsoft gun on Amazon,

267
00:19:05,438 –> 00:19:08,518
do I put my money there?

268
00:19:08,698 –> 00:19:11,598
But I may be able to get that right now.

269
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Or my application evolved from in the home to the range, indoor range to an outdoor range.

270
00:19:19,918 –> 00:19:22,998
There are other transitions that you can make there. You know,

271
00:19:23,058 –> 00:19:29,058
bins of optics, too, that eventually built so many guns that I’ve got extra

272
00:19:29,058 –> 00:19:31,398
this next to that. And I’ve tried this and I tried that.

273
00:19:31,658 –> 00:19:36,998
But I’ve only changed stuff based off of my training and background and experience.

274
00:19:37,670 –> 00:19:41,810
The things I practiced on, I didn’t just slap it on a gun, give it one shot

275
00:19:41,810 –> 00:19:44,070
at the range, you go, oh, I don’t like this.

276
00:19:44,170 –> 00:19:47,930
I’m going back to the old style. No, you got to put the time in too.

277
00:19:48,790 –> 00:19:52,770
But you also need a point in which you can measure.

278
00:19:52,950 –> 00:19:56,970
You know, if it’s me faster, more accurate, that’s a thing.

279
00:19:58,150 –> 00:20:01,650
But where you may gain things, you may lose in other aspects,

280
00:20:01,730 –> 00:20:06,530
like a variable power. People have a hard time with those in close quarter situations

281
00:20:06,530 –> 00:20:12,150
because of the tunnel vision you can get with a magnified optic on a rifle.

282
00:20:12,350 –> 00:20:17,830
So that may be an experience as to, I went to this guy and he showed me the

283
00:20:17,830 –> 00:20:22,810
technique on how to use a variable power optic without getting that tunnel vision,

284
00:20:22,890 –> 00:20:26,110
looking through the toilet roll tube kind of thing, or the paper towel tube.

285
00:20:26,250 –> 00:20:30,610
He showed me a technique. Well, crap, you know, the only reason I found that

286
00:20:30,610 –> 00:20:32,550
out is I actually went through a training class.

287
00:20:32,870 –> 00:20:37,310
Not because I just went to the, you know, just threw it on my rifle,

288
00:20:37,350 –> 00:20:39,510
looked at it and back of my safe.

289
00:20:39,570 –> 00:20:43,930
I actually got some time on it and got feedback on somebody that was way more

290
00:20:43,930 –> 00:20:49,910
experienced than me as to a better way to see things or apply things.

291
00:20:50,130 –> 00:20:54,550
So it made that piece of equipment enhance my shooting capability even more

292
00:20:54,550 –> 00:20:57,650
so without training. And it’s a constant loop.

293
00:20:57,810 –> 00:21:03,210
It’s a, you know, you know, the observe, orient, decide, enact the OODA loop. It’s constant.

294
00:21:03,350 –> 00:21:05,870
It’s the same thing with training, practice and equipment.

295
00:21:06,430 –> 00:21:09,850
You know, you can have training, then you practice, then you add equipment,

296
00:21:09,970 –> 00:21:11,710
then you’ve got to go back through that loop again.

297
00:21:11,750 –> 00:21:14,710
And you’ve got to loop all the way around again. It’s full circle.

298
00:21:15,230 –> 00:21:20,890
You’ve got to get training. He’s a guy from – he’s a little short guy.

299
00:21:20,990 –> 00:21:24,070
He kind of pioneered the arm of the Glock.

300
00:21:24,510 –> 00:21:27,090
I can’t remember his name, but Gabe.

301
00:21:28,190 –> 00:21:35,070
So Gabe has techniques to teach people application of a red dot.

302
00:21:35,070 –> 00:21:41,250
If you go to some NRA instructor that’s been an NRA instructor since the 1950s,

303
00:21:41,250 –> 00:21:45,450
and he’s teaching a class and he still carries a wheel gun,

304
00:21:45,630 –> 00:21:49,790
he’s probably not the guy you’re going to want to go see to learn how to use

305
00:21:49,790 –> 00:21:54,830
an RMR or Red Dot Sight on your handgun because what does he know?

306
00:21:55,290 –> 00:21:59,630
What does he bring to the table to make you better? Like I’m not going to go

307
00:21:59,630 –> 00:22:05,130
train under a white belt in jujitsu because he doesn’t know as much as I already know.

308
00:22:05,290 –> 00:22:10,490
So when you take your training and you go that full circle back from the equipment

309
00:22:10,490 –> 00:22:15,350
and now learning on that equipment and YouTube, again, good information there sometimes.

310
00:22:16,434 –> 00:22:20,074
Under the tutelage of somebody to give you feedback, to answer those questions.

311
00:22:20,394 –> 00:22:25,074
Get on Facebook. You ask a question, well, hey, I bought a HoloSun optic for

312
00:22:25,074 –> 00:22:27,414
my rifle. Oh, what’d you buy that piece of crap for?

313
00:22:27,554 –> 00:22:32,154
Then everybody starts the memes and the making fun of me because I didn’t get

314
00:22:32,154 –> 00:22:35,974
an Aimpoint because, you know, that’s what the military uses for.

315
00:22:36,114 –> 00:22:37,094
Well, that’s great, guys.

316
00:22:37,274 –> 00:22:40,434
But you know what? I can’t afford an Aimpoint T2.

317
00:22:40,694 –> 00:22:46,354
I don’t have $700 to pay for that. I want information on what I currently have.

318
00:22:46,454 –> 00:22:51,114
Can you help me? Yeah. There’s always an opinion on current equipment for sure.

319
00:22:51,814 –> 00:22:59,134
So I think, you know, for me, the takeaways are that training precludes gear.

320
00:22:59,894 –> 00:23:04,754
And then the second point of that is that training wins again because even with

321
00:23:04,754 –> 00:23:12,234
gear, even when you opt for gear, there’s an opportunity to train and learn that gear, right?

322
00:23:12,234 –> 00:23:16,934
Because otherwise, you’re not going to need it when the time comes if you’re

323
00:23:16,934 –> 00:23:19,154
shooting and training for that scenario.

324
00:23:19,414 –> 00:23:24,054
There’s plenty of folks that train and shoot for competition or just recreational.

325
00:23:24,074 –> 00:23:26,994
Hey, I hit a piece of paper. This is great.

326
00:23:27,414 –> 00:23:33,954
But if it comes down to, dare I say, meaningful shooting, meaningful training,

327
00:23:34,174 –> 00:23:41,274
either way, the training overrules the gear. Is that a safe summary?

328
00:23:42,654 –> 00:23:49,214
It’s the training and practice. And the training, like, it gets muddled with practice, too.

329
00:23:49,314 –> 00:23:54,554
And if we want to blanket training under the tutelage of somebody else or training

330
00:23:54,554 –> 00:23:57,954
just getting out there and getting trigger time kind of training. Trigger time.

331
00:23:58,354 –> 00:24:02,934
Whatever you want to call it. You know, it will just fall back to that because

332
00:24:02,934 –> 00:24:07,574
no matter how good the equipment is, the equipment is only as good as you are

333
00:24:07,574 –> 00:24:10,414
in the application or the usage of that equipment.

334
00:24:10,494 –> 00:24:15,054
It doesn’t matter how, you know, we’ve had, you know, back in the day where

335
00:24:15,054 –> 00:24:17,594
we had PBS 7 Bravos or PBS,

336
00:24:17,854 –> 00:24:22,234
you know, just old crappy starlight scopes on our M16s, you know,

337
00:24:22,234 –> 00:24:26,834
to, you know, the new $20,000 set of night vision now that they got.

338
00:24:26,834 –> 00:24:31,014
You know, do you still have you still have to train on? It’s a better piece of equipment.

339
00:24:31,194 –> 00:24:34,474
It may not be as complicated training. It may simplify your training,

340
00:24:34,534 –> 00:24:38,754
may simplify your practice, you know, extended magazine release.

341
00:24:39,234 –> 00:24:43,154
But, you know, you put extended magazine release on your handgun,

342
00:24:43,294 –> 00:24:47,474
you put it in your holster and you realize your holster is not fitted for that extended mag release.

343
00:24:47,474 –> 00:24:54,974
And every time you reholster, oh, damn, if I didn’t practice on the range,

344
00:24:55,114 –> 00:24:59,514
I would have never have known that in the first place until something bad happened.

345
00:24:59,654 –> 00:25:05,794
You had a cool piece of equipment that ultimately fell on you in practical application. Yeah.

346
00:25:06,163 –> 00:25:13,083
Right. And like you said, it all falls back to training. That is the foundation.

347
00:25:13,923 –> 00:25:17,963
No matter how big your foundation is, no matter how much you add to the house,

348
00:25:18,143 –> 00:25:19,863
you got to have a solid foundation.

349
00:25:20,103 –> 00:25:23,763
You can’t just hang stuff off of the roof and expect it to work. Right.

350
00:25:23,883 –> 00:25:28,583
So it will always fall back to training practice, no matter how equipment is,

351
00:25:28,683 –> 00:25:31,623
familiarization and being comfortable with it.

352
00:25:31,663 –> 00:25:34,343
Because if you’re not familiar with it, you’re not comfortable with it.

353
00:25:34,403 –> 00:25:38,603
You’re never going to be able to apply that stuff under under stressful conditions

354
00:25:38,603 –> 00:25:43,703
when your brain doesn’t operate the way it normally does when you go inside

355
00:25:43,703 –> 00:25:49,023
shooting range and practice for your 30, 40 minutes. it. There’s a lot more going on.

356
00:25:49,203 –> 00:25:56,263
So it falls into the, you know, the repetitive application of that equipment that you have.

357
00:25:56,423 –> 00:25:59,523
And this is why I’m always been a big proponent. You know, this,

358
00:25:59,603 –> 00:26:02,843
you know, these guys that come out when we used to shoot steel competitions

359
00:26:02,843 –> 00:26:06,543
at the range, you know, they’d bring out their race guns or they’d run through

360
00:26:06,543 –> 00:26:10,523
one of my training classes and they’d bring their race gun, the fun gun that they can shoot.

361
00:26:10,603 –> 00:26:12,863
I’m like, Hey, where’s the carry gun? Well, that’s in my bag.

362
00:26:13,003 –> 00:26:14,243
So why aren’t you shooting it?

363
00:26:14,643 –> 00:26:19,223
Well, cause it’s a fun class and And I want, so you’re going to practice with

364
00:26:19,223 –> 00:26:23,103
a gun again and again and again and again and again, but it’s not the gun you’re going to use.

365
00:26:23,183 –> 00:26:26,603
High stress situation is what you’re telling. Yes. I said, you’re an idiot.

366
00:26:26,643 –> 00:26:28,603
Go back to your range bag and grab the gun.

367
00:26:28,663 –> 00:26:35,163
You’re going to actually go to the poo hits the fan and use that gun.

368
00:26:35,303 –> 00:26:41,203
Because in any application, any environment that you can expose yourself to, to apply.

369
00:26:42,487 –> 00:26:47,647
That system, that firearm, whatever, in those types of situations,

370
00:26:47,847 –> 00:26:50,887
that’s when you get ahead of the game, you

371
00:26:50,887 –> 00:26:54,327
know, and you don’t have that de-familiarization. You’re not retraining.

372
00:26:54,427 –> 00:26:59,887
Having 27 guns is cool, but I would much rather be proficient with one of those

373
00:26:59,887 –> 00:27:02,827
than be okay with 27, you know?

374
00:27:02,947 –> 00:27:08,347
Absolutely. I got guns that I have fun with whatever, but you’re darn tooting

375
00:27:08,347 –> 00:27:13,107
that gun that’s like next to my bed, I could buy tax with. All day long.

376
00:27:13,867 –> 00:27:18,207
Yeah. So, and it’s not the sexiest gun. It’s not the prettiest gun.

377
00:27:18,407 –> 00:27:21,607
It’s, you know, it doesn’t have all the cool gadgets on it, but I don’t need

378
00:27:21,607 –> 00:27:24,647
all the cool gadgets because I know how to shoot it. Yep. Yep.

379
00:27:25,327 –> 00:27:28,727
The one you know the best, the one that you can operate the best,

380
00:27:28,747 –> 00:27:32,127
and the one that works the best. So, yeah, as we’re wrapping up here,

381
00:27:32,207 –> 00:27:36,627
it’s become painfully apparent for me as if I didn’t already know that training

382
00:27:36,627 –> 00:27:40,007
really precludes gear in the overall scheme of things.

383
00:27:40,127 –> 00:27:44,727
And even when you have gear, you need to be training with that and be proficient

384
00:27:44,727 –> 00:27:46,327
with it if you’re going to have it.

385
00:27:46,527 –> 00:27:52,467
Otherwise, it’s just for talking points and, you know, for points of discussion

386
00:27:52,467 –> 00:27:56,927
and bragging rights as far as what gear you have on your equipment.

387
00:27:56,927 –> 00:27:59,967
But we’ve talked a lot about gear.

388
00:28:00,067 –> 00:28:03,867
We’ve talked a lot about training and the importance of training with or without gear.

389
00:28:04,367 –> 00:28:09,007
So just to put you on the spot again, here wrapping things up.

390
00:28:09,127 –> 00:28:15,327
As far as my pistol goes or my AR goes, my rifle, whatever,

391
00:28:15,627 –> 00:28:24,327
what’s a good piece of gear that I should be concerned with or that I need to be investing in?

392
00:28:24,327 –> 00:28:29,007
And then as far as training go, where can I go for good training?

393
00:28:29,187 –> 00:28:33,187
I mean, I want to get trained. You’ve convinced me. Where should I go?

394
00:28:34,061 –> 00:28:40,761
Okay, so with regards to gear, you know, primary, you know, let’s say handgun right now.

395
00:28:41,101 –> 00:28:45,921
If I took all my handguns of all the different options that I have out there,

396
00:28:46,021 –> 00:28:51,581
I think the one common piece of equipment gear that I’ve changed or added to

397
00:28:51,581 –> 00:28:52,881
that particular firearm,

398
00:28:53,021 –> 00:28:56,661
I think across the board is honestly,

399
00:28:56,841 –> 00:29:00,601
I think it’s sights and it’s consistency.

400
00:29:00,601 –> 00:29:03,021
It’s things that I have to visualize. lives.

401
00:29:03,201 –> 00:29:07,421
I know in the beginning I talked about flashlights.

402
00:29:07,541 –> 00:29:13,921
That is a primary piece of gear for a handgun, but a flashlight to me is also like a knife.

403
00:29:14,761 –> 00:29:19,561
It’s in itself a separate piece of equipment that doesn’t necessarily relate

404
00:29:19,561 –> 00:29:25,421
to the handgun, like that EDC kind of thought process of I carry a knife,

405
00:29:25,561 –> 00:29:27,541
I carry a gun, and I carry a flashlight.

406
00:29:28,061 –> 00:29:31,761
So the flashlight is absolutely, Absolutely. Yes, it’s important,

407
00:29:31,941 –> 00:29:34,361
but I think it’s important beyond just the handgun.

408
00:29:34,481 –> 00:29:40,181
So if I’m talking about something attached to augmenting a handgun for everything,

409
00:29:40,461 –> 00:29:42,281
be it personal defense, home defense,

410
00:29:42,661 –> 00:29:47,441
target shooting, competitive shooting across the board, I would say sights because

411
00:29:47,441 –> 00:29:52,421
I’m very finicky about the visual equation in which my brain has processed. process.

412
00:29:52,681 –> 00:29:57,141
With regards to a rifle, I’m going to fall to the exact same thing.

413
00:29:57,441 –> 00:29:59,201
It’s that visual equation.

414
00:29:59,521 –> 00:30:04,481
I like consistency from gun to gun, the way the stock feels,

415
00:30:04,581 –> 00:30:06,521
the way the grip feels, the way the trigger feels.

416
00:30:07,041 –> 00:30:13,741
But without all that, and as I get older, sights, the optic will always be a

417
00:30:13,741 –> 00:30:18,361
primary piece of equipment that I will do first and foremost.

418
00:30:18,801 –> 00:30:23,841
And it doesn’t necessarily certainly have to be a red dot. It’s just how you

419
00:30:23,841 –> 00:30:25,621
can, how you visually understand.

420
00:30:26,851 –> 00:30:33,131
Line up the firearm to the target. It’s that visual, be it magnified red dot

421
00:30:33,131 –> 00:30:37,511
or backup iron sights or fixed iron sights.

422
00:30:37,771 –> 00:30:42,491
You know, I always default to a red dot, in my opinion, because it’s consistent.

423
00:30:42,571 –> 00:30:45,111
It’s consistent for the ranges in which I find myself.

424
00:30:45,871 –> 00:30:50,671
And it’s been ultra reliable for me over the years, even without spending,

425
00:30:50,751 –> 00:30:55,211
you know, the prices of endpoints with some of these other high-dollar optics.

426
00:30:55,911 –> 00:31:02,151
And you could say almost the same thing for a shotgun or any other firearm is that visual equation.

427
00:31:02,371 –> 00:31:06,151
If you can’t work that visual equation, you can’t see the front sight,

428
00:31:06,351 –> 00:31:10,691
you can’t line them up, whatever, you’re not going to be able to hit anything. Can’t shoot.

429
00:31:11,611 –> 00:31:16,071
You’re right. You can have a crappy trigger on a gun, but if you can’t line

430
00:31:16,071 –> 00:31:20,331
the sights up, it doesn’t matter how good you can pull the trigger if you cannot

431
00:31:20,331 –> 00:31:23,751
visualize that equation. You have to do it quick, too, you know,

432
00:31:23,771 –> 00:31:25,051
in under-stressful situations.

433
00:31:25,351 –> 00:31:30,331
We’ve done that in training practice and so on, is that speed of acquisition

434
00:31:30,331 –> 00:31:33,071
of targets, lining your sights up, getting on targets.

435
00:31:33,251 –> 00:31:36,511
So iron sights for, you know, the handgun.

436
00:31:36,711 –> 00:31:41,731
I think it doesn’t trump a flashlight because, to me, a flashlight is a separate piece of equipment.

437
00:31:42,794 –> 00:31:46,794
But, you know, that going on a handgun, and then I would say the optic on a

438
00:31:46,794 –> 00:31:50,874
carbine and sights on a shotgun, whatever that might be.

439
00:31:51,534 –> 00:31:55,074
Regards to training, there’s a lot of places to train. There’s a lot of good

440
00:31:55,074 –> 00:31:57,474
places to train. There’s a lot of bad places to train.

441
00:31:57,714 –> 00:32:03,074
A good friend of mine, Colonel Steve Shy, he’s a Fort Recon Marine as well.

442
00:32:03,214 –> 00:32:08,714
He has a Semper Fi gun training up in Alto Lula, Georgia area. He does everything.

443
00:32:09,734 –> 00:32:16,594
Great, great guy. He’s a veteran. He’s just, he’s spot on. He’s done a lot of training.

444
00:32:16,714 –> 00:32:19,754
This is not, this is a guy that you talk in 30 years in the military,

445
00:32:19,914 –> 00:32:24,174
force recon Marine, you think he’s, you know, he’s gonna, hey, he’s checked the block.

446
00:32:24,274 –> 00:32:27,434
He’s done it, you know, everything in the military, but the guy goes to training

447
00:32:27,434 –> 00:32:31,994
classes more than I have ever done since I’ve been a civilian and him in a close

448
00:32:31,994 –> 00:32:34,034
friend of mine, Harold Lanier as well.

449
00:32:34,174 –> 00:32:38,954
So he’s one of his instructors and Harold used to work with me when I own my

450
00:32:38,954 –> 00:32:41,474
training company. I still do some private instruction.

451
00:32:41,894 –> 00:32:45,594
I’ve kind of fallen off of that because, you know, you get spread too thin and,

452
00:32:45,634 –> 00:32:47,454
you know, personal lives go down.

453
00:32:47,634 –> 00:32:53,254
So, yeah, I had to prioritize. So that’s when my training company kind of put that on the back burner.

454
00:32:53,434 –> 00:32:56,754
But I would say Semper Fi Gun Training for local companies that I know and I

455
00:32:56,754 –> 00:32:58,254
would trust with people.

456
00:32:58,534 –> 00:33:02,574
There are great places out of state. Frank Proctor comes to mind.

457
00:33:06,434 –> 00:33:09,574
Frank He teaches a lot of military guys. I’ve been to Bill Rogers.

458
00:33:09,794 –> 00:33:11,434
That’s a great training course.

459
00:33:11,894 –> 00:33:17,474
Bill is not cheap by any means. He’s probably one of the most expensive training in this area.

460
00:33:18,054 –> 00:33:21,194
And L.J., great class, so great instruction.

461
00:33:21,334 –> 00:33:25,554
He’s got some good instructors under him now. I went there in 2001,

462
00:33:25,914 –> 00:33:31,034
and it was Bill and a couple of his – Andy and another guy that was training there.

463
00:33:31,154 –> 00:33:34,574
But I think Bill’s kind of – I don’t know how much he teaches there anymore.

464
00:33:34,574 –> 00:33:38,174
But there’s a lot of good guys, local. Look at reviews.

465
00:33:38,814 –> 00:33:44,234
Get some feedback. Don’t look at just postings that these training companies

466
00:33:44,234 –> 00:33:50,254
post on their website because they’re going to pick the greatest user feedback

467
00:33:50,254 –> 00:33:51,934
that they can find. Right.

468
00:33:52,354 –> 00:33:55,554
We’re all five stars because that’s what we filtered through.

469
00:33:55,874 –> 00:33:59,754
I went through the Glock Instructor course down in Smyrna.

470
00:33:59,954 –> 00:34:05,794
It was a good, I think it was four or five days. It was trigger time for me.

471
00:34:05,854 –> 00:34:09,854
It was one of those courses where I think for the average person,

472
00:34:09,954 –> 00:34:11,274
it was a very good course.

473
00:34:11,434 –> 00:34:16,374
I think for an instructor level with my background, I felt kind of short on,

474
00:34:16,494 –> 00:34:20,154
but that’s not what the focus of that class was. And some of these classes you’ve

475
00:34:20,154 –> 00:34:25,114
got to look at that some of these classes are going to be advanced beyond your skill set.

476
00:34:25,474 –> 00:34:29,974
Don’t lie to yourself because you’ve been standing next to the guys like I have

477
00:34:29,974 –> 00:34:37,254
that I’ve taught as well that think they’re coming to the table with a pretty solid foundation.

478
00:34:37,694 –> 00:34:39,114
They leave my class…

479
00:34:39,949 –> 00:34:43,069
I was satisfied, but they’re humbled.

480
00:34:43,409 –> 00:34:49,129
It’s just that way. They found out that they weren’t as good as they thought they were.

481
00:34:49,609 –> 00:34:56,229
And it’s exposure to different things. It’s not standing static in a shooting

482
00:34:56,229 –> 00:35:00,329
stall, shooting at five yards at a man’s target at five yards.

483
00:35:00,489 –> 00:35:04,749
Well, when my daughter was six, she could do that with her left hand upside

484
00:35:04,749 –> 00:35:09,429
down at a man’s target at seven yards.

485
00:35:09,949 –> 00:35:12,769
Look at the course curriculum too so you can’t

486
00:35:12,769 –> 00:35:15,549
just look at the instructor like you know one of

487
00:35:15,549 –> 00:35:18,469
my the unicorns that i want to go see

488
00:35:18,469 –> 00:35:21,729
i want to go see pat mcnamara like

489
00:35:21,729 –> 00:35:24,729
most phenomenal you know i don’t think i’m in physical

490
00:35:24,729 –> 00:35:28,289
shape for his class because he is just he’s a

491
00:35:28,289 –> 00:35:33,509
beast he’s a stud no doubt but look

492
00:35:33,509 –> 00:35:36,929
at his stuff he also his core foundation basic

493
00:35:36,929 –> 00:35:39,769
on mastering we talked about up training

494
00:35:39,769 –> 00:35:42,809
but mastering the basics yeah being so good

495
00:35:42,809 –> 00:35:45,589
at the basics that it was sort of all these

496
00:35:45,589 –> 00:35:48,509
guys doing cool guy stuff yeah you know that yeah

497
00:35:48,509 –> 00:35:53,209
that that looks neat and all but dude you you can’t master a basic reload then

498
00:35:53,209 –> 00:35:57,409
what are you diving out the side of a vehicle doing this combat roll into the

499
00:35:57,409 –> 00:36:03,809
tumble right the crane shooting stance or something so that’s a lot of good

500
00:36:03,809 –> 00:36:06,689
training in the area, but check,

501
00:36:06,949 –> 00:36:07,889
get some feedback.

502
00:36:08,169 –> 00:36:12,509
And if you can, you don’t want to ask around if you’re in that community where

503
00:36:12,509 –> 00:36:16,309
you have friends that have gone to training classes, some people will have good feedback.

504
00:36:16,429 –> 00:36:21,769
Some people will kind of be, eh, it wasn’t as good as they claimed.

505
00:36:21,889 –> 00:36:26,469
I had somebody go see an instructor that I went and saw, and they were like, yeah, it was okay.

506
00:36:26,709 –> 00:36:32,069
But at the level that they were at, I think that they expected more Or…

507
00:36:32,901 –> 00:36:36,461
So the expectations were kind of let down, but it’s a good course.

508
00:36:37,801 –> 00:36:42,761
Yeah. So there’s a lot of courses out there, right?

509
00:36:42,801 –> 00:36:49,321
And there’s a lot of folks that I admire as trainers and that I’m sure have a lot of capability.

510
00:36:49,661 –> 00:36:55,421
But, you know, in the circles that I run, and we’ve talked about this before,

511
00:36:55,521 –> 00:36:57,421
right? Oh, why don’t you train them, blah, blah, blah.

512
00:36:57,501 –> 00:37:01,561
But at the end of the day, I want them to go and get real training,

513
00:37:01,661 –> 00:37:05,141
right? Right. And I want them to go and get the type of training that could

514
00:37:05,141 –> 00:37:12,481
help them move to the next level or help them in defense of their life if need be. Right.

515
00:37:12,561 –> 00:37:15,401
And I don’t know that I’m the right person for that.

516
00:37:15,501 –> 00:37:25,601
So what advice or what type of training would you suggest for the newbie looking

517
00:37:25,601 –> 00:37:28,981
for not just, this is how you shoot a gun.

518
00:37:28,981 –> 00:37:36,041
This is basic safety, but here’s taking you to kind of the next level beyond

519
00:37:36,041 –> 00:37:38,761
that, like especially for home defense, whatever.

520
00:37:39,841 –> 00:37:44,501
What should they look for? What should they try to go for?

521
00:37:45,081 –> 00:37:49,921
Well, when it comes to personal defense, home defense, you have to prioritize

522
00:37:49,921 –> 00:37:56,241
like what kind of situation in a home defense situation or at personal engagement,

523
00:37:56,241 –> 00:37:59,281
me walking out of the convenience store, where am I going to see myself?

524
00:37:59,461 –> 00:38:03,961
I’m going to see myself between zero and three to five yards,

525
00:38:04,381 –> 00:38:06,661
home defense, maybe a little bit more.

526
00:38:06,901 –> 00:38:10,181
But when you’re talking home defense, it’s angles of fire.

527
00:38:10,941 –> 00:38:15,941
I’m in a barricaded position, they’re in my house, even walking out of a convenience

528
00:38:15,941 –> 00:38:18,661
store, there’s a car there, it’s angles of fire.

529
00:38:18,801 –> 00:38:22,141
How can I situate myself between me and a bad guy?

530
00:38:22,281 –> 00:38:26,601
So a lot of the application for basic people with knowledge,

531
00:38:26,821 –> 00:38:30,561
you know, basic firearms knowledge, you got to get comfortable with the gun.

532
00:38:30,661 –> 00:38:33,061
You got to get comfortable in presentation of the gun.

533
00:38:33,261 –> 00:38:38,101
So classes, you can focus on presentation, getting the gun out,

534
00:38:38,161 –> 00:38:39,361
getting the gun out on target.

535
00:38:39,601 –> 00:38:43,481
But my problem with that is I appendix carry.

536
00:38:43,701 –> 00:38:48,661
There’s not a class of course that I can find that will allow appendix carry

537
00:38:48,661 –> 00:38:51,581
or purse carry in a training class.

538
00:38:51,921 –> 00:38:57,541
So say a friend of yours, she’s got a purse. She carries a revolver and purse.

539
00:38:57,841 –> 00:39:02,661
She’s got no place to go train because nobody’s teaching that because it’s too

540
00:39:02,661 –> 00:39:05,281
dangerous on the square range.

541
00:39:06,841 –> 00:39:09,741
So then you have to start looking for private instruction,

542
00:39:10,765 –> 00:39:13,885
to learn how to do these things, you know, the one-on-one instruction.

543
00:39:14,585 –> 00:39:18,345
When it comes to home defense and personal defense and the tactical portion,

544
00:39:18,945 –> 00:39:25,785
that is one of those to where, you know, does a range have the ability to shoot barricades?

545
00:39:26,045 –> 00:39:31,345
Do they have the ability to walk through a situation on how to barricade yourself

546
00:39:31,345 –> 00:39:33,245
in a room or in your house?

547
00:39:33,345 –> 00:39:38,105
So sometimes even that gets into private instruction because a lot of ranges

548
00:39:38,105 –> 00:39:42,125
don’t have those types of philosophies, Excuse me, the facilities that have

549
00:39:42,125 –> 00:39:45,805
a shooting house, they don’t have barricades, they don’t have cars,

550
00:39:46,085 –> 00:39:50,205
you know, junk cars to be out there to shoot the windshield or have a separate car.

551
00:39:50,765 –> 00:39:54,465
So you have to look at the situations you’re going to find yourself and then

552
00:39:54,465 –> 00:39:55,625
start picking and choosing.

553
00:39:55,825 –> 00:40:02,485
You may end up going to a course that talks about 10 things and you only really needed three of those.

554
00:40:02,665 –> 00:40:05,705
But those are seven things. You’re still getting trigger time.

555
00:40:05,785 –> 00:40:07,965
It’s still OK. Trigger time is good. Good.

556
00:40:08,885 –> 00:40:12,165
It’s always good. And it’s you only get out what you put into it.

557
00:40:12,205 –> 00:40:16,145
Like the guys that gave me feedback on a course that I’d been through that I

558
00:40:16,145 –> 00:40:18,265
said it was a good course. They had higher expectations.

559
00:40:18,545 –> 00:40:23,405
I’m like, OK, well, how much did you put into that course that you got out of it?

560
00:40:23,505 –> 00:40:29,025
Like if you didn’t put in to it as much, then you didn’t get out of it as much

561
00:40:29,025 –> 00:40:33,285
as you thought because you failed to put in more. So it works both ways.

562
00:40:33,725 –> 00:40:37,925
As an instructor, if I got a student that’s just not in it, you’ve seen this

563
00:40:37,925 –> 00:40:40,785
in out of carbine class where it was hot as heck.

564
00:40:41,685 –> 00:40:44,505
Guys that look like they’re going to die because it was in August,

565
00:40:44,705 –> 00:40:48,145
you know, and, you know, they’re showing up with all this cool guy kit.

566
00:40:48,285 –> 00:40:53,025
And that lasted about 37 minutes because they realize how hard it is to have

567
00:40:53,025 –> 00:40:56,485
all that crap on, you know, when you’re trying to learn. I’m not trying to teach

568
00:40:56,485 –> 00:40:57,865
you how to shoot with body armor on.

569
00:40:57,885 –> 00:41:00,605
I’m trying to teach you how to shoot from a barricade.

570
00:41:00,725 –> 00:41:03,025
You want to learn with body armor, do that on your time.

571
00:41:03,265 –> 00:41:09,005
You know, though, you know, it’s, it’s tough. It’s a lot of information out

572
00:41:09,005 –> 00:41:10,065
there. It’s overwhelming.

573
00:41:11,225 –> 00:41:15,885
And there’s a lot of good books too. A lot of, we’re internet people.

574
00:41:16,065 –> 00:41:19,705
We want to download everything. We want to video everything, watch it online.

575
00:41:20,225 –> 00:41:25,025
There’s a lot of really, really good books out there. Yeah, but that’s a great

576
00:41:25,025 –> 00:41:30,925
point, too, is that, you know, that’s not gear, that’s training,

577
00:41:31,025 –> 00:41:32,985
right? So that counts towards that, too.

578
00:41:33,946 –> 00:41:37,566
Yep. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Van, this has been great.

579
00:41:37,706 –> 00:41:41,586
This is a lot of good information. There may even be enough information here

580
00:41:41,586 –> 00:41:45,466
to carry us over into another episode, potentially at some point in the future.

581
00:41:45,526 –> 00:41:51,666
But for now, I think the takeaways are is that training should become for gear.

582
00:41:51,966 –> 00:41:58,766
And even if you do choose gear, that training with that gear is paramount.

583
00:41:58,786 –> 00:42:02,466
And I think you agree with me on that point.

584
00:42:03,166 –> 00:42:08,766
Absolutely. And I think we’ve made that clear over the course of this, this podcast.

585
00:42:08,846 –> 00:42:11,206
So I want to thank you again.

586
00:42:11,286 –> 00:42:16,506
The information is invaluable and Van, I just want to say wholeheartedly,

587
00:42:16,506 –> 00:42:19,646
thank you for your service. Thank you for all you’ve done.

588
00:42:20,166 –> 00:42:25,846
You’re one of the types I look up to as a hero and I appreciate and think it’s

589
00:42:25,846 –> 00:42:30,246
great that you’ve taken this opportunity to be with me on this podcast this evening.

590
00:42:30,826 –> 00:42:34,086
Thanks, Jim. It’s been a bit of an honor to be able to talk about things.

591
00:42:34,186 –> 00:42:35,786
You know, I’m passionate about all this stuff.

592
00:42:35,926 –> 00:42:38,886
So, yeah, it’s been a great conversation.

593
00:42:39,086 –> 00:42:43,266
I think it’s a lot of good information for people. And if it gets people thinking,

594
00:42:43,446 –> 00:42:45,906
that’s what we want, you know? Absolutely.

595
00:42:46,946 –> 00:42:50,646
Don’t follow the, don’t get in the conga line and just follow the next person

596
00:42:50,646 –> 00:42:53,586
in front of you. So it gets people thinking and gets a conversation started.

597
00:42:53,826 –> 00:42:57,846
Yeah, someone I heard recently said, I can’t teach you anything,

598
00:42:58,026 –> 00:43:01,226
but I can make you think and start thinking for yourselves.

599
00:43:01,506 –> 00:43:04,006
And so I think that’s an important takeaway, too.

600
00:43:04,606 –> 00:43:07,646
Definitely. Thanks so much. Thank you, Jim.

601
00:43:08,106 –> 00:43:12,646
Hi, I’m Jim O’Brien, your host of the Self-Initiative Project podcast.

602
00:43:13,526 –> 00:43:17,466
If you think the information here is good or could be helpful to someone,

603
00:43:17,706 –> 00:43:21,666
feel free to tell your friends and family so they can have a listen to it.

604
00:43:21,806 –> 00:43:23,826
And we want to thank you for listening.

605
00:43:24,560 –> 00:43:45,387
Music.