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Music.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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I’m your host, Jim O’Brien. Today I going to be talking to my bud,

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Van Sealy, a retired Marine of 20 years, firearms instructor,

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and a manager at a local gun store and range.

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I’ve had the pleasure of training under Van for everything from basic defensive

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pistol to advance, as well as a little bit of carbine work in the mix.

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And today we’re going to be talking to you about all things training versus

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gear and where it is you really should be looking to spend your time and money.

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I want to welcome Van to the podcast.

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This will be part one of two. Hi Van, how are you?

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Doing pretty good, thank you. How are you? Good, good, good.

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I’m glad to have you on today and seeing as how yesterday was Memorial Day,

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thank you for your service.

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Appreciate all you’ve done Yeah, thank you.

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So we wanted to get on here and talk about gear and training and why you might

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want to place one of those over the other. Absolutely.

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So I’m of the opinion that you should spend more money on training than you

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should gear, especially starting out. What do you think about that?

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Yeah, yeah. Over my time with active duty Marine Corps, being part of training

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Cadre in the Marine Corps and working my way into the civilian world,

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training has become second to equipment, especially in this current gun market

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where everybody’s got a thick outdoors trader, armless, eBay, Amazon. on.

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There’s always new gadgets, gears and gadgets that you can throw on your guns

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or replace your current gun with a different gun.

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And then everybody doesn’t invest time and money into training, let alone practicing.

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So they’re just kind of, they’re chasing perfection with equipment where if they would train more,

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they would find to bridge that gap of,

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you know, entry level level capabilities to getting

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better faster more accurate or whatever their skill you know mantra is yeah

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they replace it with gear and it’s it’s fine you know and you and i’ve talked

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about this but there’s a balance and uh one can’t supersede the other it kind of goes hand in hand.

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As we get older, there’s sometimes easier things to use, better advances in

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gear and equipment help, but it can never truly be the core.

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No, absolutely. I think a lot of people use gear to compensate for the lack of training.

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They think the gear is going to make them good. So before we deep dive in this,

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because I’m completely on board,

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I want to tell the people, our listeners, a little bit about you and your background

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and what you’ve done and who you are and that sort of thing.

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So take a few minutes and tell us about you.

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Well, I joined the Marine Corps in 1992. I ended up going to Okinawa for about

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six years, spouse draft and first recon company to fifth force.

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Both are the Marine Corps’ version of special operations, kind of like the SEALs,

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if you will, of the Marine Corps.

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And then ended up in 99, ended up going to First Force out in California.

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And then I did a stint, a four-year duty with First Special Operations Training Group.

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So being one of the guys that was deployed and one of the guys in the 4-3 Comp

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Platoon, I ended up being one of their instructors and evaluators.

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And over that four years, I taught CQB, close quarters battle.

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I was a primary breacher instructor.

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I ended up my last year there before I went back to First Force,

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ended up teaching the urban sniper and I was the intermittent chief instructor

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for the reconnaissance surveillance portion of the Marine Corps Special Operations training.

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And then ended up back at First Force, did a combat deployment,

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OIF, got back from there and decided I need a little time off of doing all the

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deployments I had in the past.

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And ended up as a ranger instructor because I was ranger qualified and did that for four years.

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During that time, I established a couple of different companies,

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training companies, helped the company with manufacturing and designing tactical

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bags, medical bags, and some other small things.

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And then once I finished off with a range of training battalion,

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I went to where it was active duty personnel as a reserve unit down in Smyrna.

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And I finished my last two years out of my 20 down there.

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Then after that, I started looking for an instructor job right before retirement.

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My primary focus was becoming a firearms instructor, tactical kind of thing.

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I want to own my own training company. Then I kind of fell into a retail business

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that was looking for an instructor that was in Beaufort, Georgia, a dead center.

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And then when I retired full time, I ended up going on staff full time,

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both teaching basic handgun and some advanced level stuff.

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Got my NRA certification, instructor certification.

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And then about a year later, ended up as a general manager.

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And then you know been

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in that retail farms community you know

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about six years now and then i also started you

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know smaller gear companies designing slings belts

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other equipment soft goods kind of thing then got in a customization of handguns

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this is kind of how you know you and i have talked with you know customizing

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the the glock turning a 500 glock into to a 1700 glock and it shoots like a

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60-millimeter Glock, you know.

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So, you know, my entire career was gears and gadgets.

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And, you know, we were always chasing the perfect piece of equipment.

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But we still had the baseline training to be able to take advantage of that equipment, you know.

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And then after that, I ended up, you know, still at Debt Center,

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but I ended up starting a cerakoting refinishing company as well.

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Well, you know, it’s my whole life and career has been, you know,

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either doing it or instructing somebody how to do it, you know,

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and then trying to find better ways to do it.

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Either from a teaching instruction standpoint, you know, better techniques or

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do we have a piece of equipment that can help maybe fix that?

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You know, there’s a flaw in whatever, you know, whatever equipment we had,

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be it a holster or a backpack or, you know, you can’t take a piece of styrofoam and make a holster.

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You can get a good holster that’s going to hold your gun.

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So there’s still that that equipment is important. But I find training is the foundation.

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It’s the core of what you have to have before you start searching for the magic,

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you know, the magical equipment, kind of like searching for the magical bullet.

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You know, everybody wants that magical bullet. It’s got a one-stop shop.

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Yeah. It’s going to do it all just like it does in the movies.

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Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s the point, right?

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And that’s what we’re here to talk to today. day and you’ve kind of walked both sides

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of the street sometimes simultaneously between gear

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and training right you’re in cells selling gear

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but you’ve also been on the training side and recognize the fact that the gear

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doesn’t compensate for the lack of training or the training and and you make

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a really good point with the the the glock analogy right you you got a 500 550 dollar Glock,

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you can spend a thousand dollars on it, but does that really make you better

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with that platform? Right.

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And it’s, it’s a, it’s a tough balance, you know, cause it’s not, it’s not inclusive.

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It’s, you know, they, they both share, you know, I mean, if,

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if gear and equipment wasn’t important, then we, we’d still be shooting muskets, you know?

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So there’s this There’s progression in this equipment.

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This is a perfect time right now because the industry as a whole,

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when it comes to farm sales, it’s stagnant.

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So all these companies now are becoming very creative.

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In their equipment, very creative in their products, but you can also get very lost.

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You know, it’s like going into a gun store and you see 350 choices of a handgun. It’s overwhelming.

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Yeah. And you’ve never held a handgun before. You have no clue other than the

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monkey behind the counter telling you what you need.

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So without a core, it’s kind of like buying a car and not, you know,

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or never driving before. You don’t know what the hell you need.

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You know, it’s, And we can get lost in that.

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And the gear and equipment is getting almost overwhelming where every day you

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see another piece of gear added to a gun.

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And it’s almost, what’s the analogy you can use?

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It’s like a Lego set on a gun now. There’s so many things to attach to them

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that, you know, where does it end?

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Yeah. Yeah. And I think part of the problem, though, is that a lot of the gear

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that’s available in the firearms industry is, at least on an individual purchasing basis,

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is cheaper than a single, at least a single quality training class.

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Would you agree with that? Like, maybe that’s part of the problem is price point or the perception.

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I don’t know if it’s price point or it’s pure laziness because what’s easier,

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Jim, to slap on a magwell on your Glock to make speed reloads easier or to practice

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reloads and get efficient at it, then add a magwell later.

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So it’s, I think, inherently kind of lazy.

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You know, we want the easy answers, kind of like the seven minute ads.

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You know, we want to have a six-pack doing a seven-minute workout.

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We’re not going to put in the 30 minutes in the gym or diet.

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We’re not, you know, we want the easy six.

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And I’m not saying that’s bad because there’s some of this equipment that is

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really, I mean, it saves lives. It does make life.

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Learning may be practicing easier, simpler, but it’s still that balance.

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And it’s also that balance of knowing where’s money wasted.

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And there’s a lot of philosophies on anything from how many magazines should

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you carry extra compared to you ever going to do a speed reload to what’s the magical bullet.

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And there’s a lot of misinformation out there too. And we’re our our own worst

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enemies because I think the industry as a whole, especially all these companies

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now that are popping up, they’re all alphas. Like everybody makes crap.

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Only we make the good stuff. Right. We eat ourselves from the inside that our

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magwell is better than your magwell is better than your rail is better than your light.

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And you’re feeding your, I don’t know, you’re selling a bill of goods to people

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that may not understand. And it’s that filtering.

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Where do I put a hundred dollars? You know, I argue with people about,

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you know, night sights and I people go cross-eyed at me when I tell them,

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why spend $50 on night sights?

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How many times you’ve been at the range? Right. I go to each once a month.

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Well, you might want to be able to get to the range more so you can instinctively

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shoot because in that high stress situation, you may not even see your sights anyway.

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Anyway, so spend $150 on ammo, add some trigger time, you’re not going to have

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to chase that front sight because you know what it feels like when your gun

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is pointed in the correct direction.

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But I’m not saying don’t get night sights. I’m just saying, where do you want to put your money now?

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Yeah, so I think you make two really good points in that if I had to summarize

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what I heard. First of all is that gear is equated to the quick fix.

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And we know at least especially here stateside that we’re all about the quick fix.

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You know, it’s the magic pill to lose the weight. It’s the magic pill to gain,

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you know, muscle mass, whatever it is.

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We’re always looking for the quick fix. And so the gear kind of gives us that

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same angle, right? Right.

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And the other point that you make, which I think is fantastic,

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is that training doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to go spend five,

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six hundred dollars to go to the top trainer that’s known in the firearm community.

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Training just means that you’re buying the ammo and actively going to the range

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and practicing or training regularly on your own and practicing skills.

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Right. It doesn’t have to be a six hundred dollar class that you’re spending

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to train. And I think that’s an important point to make.

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Yeah. And there is a difference between training and practicing.

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You know, when I when I mean, you do Krav, I do I’m doing jujitsu now and, you know, I go to a class.

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I am training. I am taught a technique that I may be familiar with,

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but I may be seeing it from a different avenue.

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But then after class, I stay with another guy and we practice that technique,

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you know, and just taking a training class. You’ve done them with me and I’ve

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done them and you’ve done them with other people as well.

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I’ve gone to Proctor. I’ve gone to Rogers.

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I’ve gone to, you know, all sorts of schools, especially in the Marine Corps. Sure.

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You know, you got to, you know, an eight, 10 hour class and you are in sensory

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overload because there’s so much information that as soon as you leave there,

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you’ve got to go practice, you know, but again,

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it’s an investment that you have to make.

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Hey, what are you going to get more out of,

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a $250 training class or $250 of trigger time or a balance of a little bit of

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each and then maybe some equipment?

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Because if you’re shooting a high point, you’re probably not looking at the best reliable gun.

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So maybe some of that $250 needs to go in there with a better gun into an aftermarket

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accessory That’s going to help with the techniques and what you’re practicing

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to make you better, make you faster, make you more accurate.

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And it’s still I always say it’s not all inclusive. You’ve got to have a balance of all.

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You know, you cannot you cannot stick to, you know, I used to call them the

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dinosaurs in the recon community and utmost respect for these guys.

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But, you know, they were I’m not saying Vietnam era guys.

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Now, I was back in 92. too so i mean the

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guys my team leaders my platoon sergeants my instructors they were you know

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the 80s marines you know roughed up and or but it was like just shut up pick

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that ruck up you know 100 pound ruck and i’m like this ruck was made in the

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60s dude like why do we not have,

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and why do we not have mountaineering equipment in order in order to handle

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that weight you know And then you get that cross-eyed look.

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I can respect the old school stuff. You know me. I love 1911.

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People are going to go out and gun jams all the time.

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Actually, mine doesn’t. But okay. And I’m not going to argue with you.

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00:15:49,474 –> 00:15:51,494
But I can’t shoot Glocks.

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00:15:51,634 –> 00:15:56,594
So I stopped a gun that I was issued for 20 years in the Marine Corps that I

211
00:15:56,594 –> 00:15:58,794
got trigger time on. Yeah.

212
00:15:59,491 –> 00:16:05,751
You know, I’ve had those $1,700 Glocks, but I could pick up a 1911 and drive

213
00:16:05,751 –> 00:16:08,171
tax with it, and I could never do it with a Glock.

214
00:16:08,291 –> 00:16:13,451
Again, I put in the time that I needed. I tried to fix something,

215
00:16:13,671 –> 00:16:15,631
one thing that wasn’t really broken.

216
00:16:16,051 –> 00:16:20,691
You know, the skill level wasn’t broken per se, but then I tried to fix it with

217
00:16:20,691 –> 00:16:24,431
another different gun, you know? Yeah.

218
00:16:25,211 –> 00:16:29,351
Well, your problem would have been solved if your Glock had have had the grip

219
00:16:29,351 –> 00:16:31,931
angle of a 1911. I’m convinced of that.

220
00:16:33,031 –> 00:16:36,431
Not that it was. Yeah.

221
00:16:36,731 –> 00:16:40,691
Yeah. You just bought the piece of gear to make it more like a 1911 and it made

222
00:16:40,691 –> 00:16:42,531
you shoot the Glock better. Right.

223
00:16:43,411 –> 00:16:49,311
Right. You know, it’s tough. And it’s sometimes, you know, I find myself being

224
00:16:49,311 –> 00:16:52,991
hypocritical because I like gear just like the next guy.

225
00:16:53,071 –> 00:16:56,271
I mean, I’ve got, you come to my house, I got a garage full of crap,

226
00:16:56,331 –> 00:16:58,731
but I’ve got bins full of stuff that never worked.

227
00:16:59,191 –> 00:17:04,571
Yeah. But why do I know it never worked is because I put in the time. Trial and error.

228
00:17:05,011 –> 00:17:10,271
Yeah. And I found it didn’t work. Like chasing a tail is, you know,

229
00:17:10,291 –> 00:17:11,711
you’re going to get there eventually.

230
00:17:11,711 –> 00:17:14,691
But you know it may not be as satisfying as you might

231
00:17:14,691 –> 00:17:18,971
think i had 17 18 holsters

232
00:17:18,971 –> 00:17:23,631
for the same gun you know it’s

233
00:17:23,631 –> 00:17:26,491
like all colors different positions different clips different

234
00:17:26,491 –> 00:17:29,291
that and you’ve got to try equipment don’t get me wrong

235
00:17:29,291 –> 00:17:32,131
because we’re all built differently yeah i gotta find

236
00:17:32,131 –> 00:17:35,251
what works for you right you know and i mean

237
00:17:35,251 –> 00:17:38,571
we’re same age so my eyesight’s

238
00:17:38,571 –> 00:17:41,391
going i can’t see the damn front side even if i want it

239
00:17:41,391 –> 00:17:44,091
i’m blind in one eye and can’t see out of the other at this

240
00:17:44,091 –> 00:17:46,871
point so yeah i shoot normally shoot with

241
00:17:46,871 –> 00:17:50,011
both eyes closed anyway so it’s i mean when you

242
00:17:50,011 –> 00:17:53,031
pull the trigger yeah but um

243
00:17:53,031 –> 00:17:55,991
it’s like you know what what’s the latest thing going

244
00:17:55,991 –> 00:17:58,751
on right now with with handguns is red dots

245
00:17:58,751 –> 00:18:01,771
everybody every company out

246
00:18:01,771 –> 00:18:25,651
there is now offering guns with The RMRs. RMRs, yeah.

247
00:18:26,066 –> 00:18:31,726
Great for people that want to go to the target range and just have a more enjoyable experience.

248
00:18:31,906 –> 00:18:36,686
The visual equation that we have to do with iron sights is difficult.

249
00:18:37,046 –> 00:18:41,346
And a lot of people don’t understand how that equation actually plays out in

250
00:18:41,346 –> 00:18:43,066
a gunfight with iron sight.

251
00:18:43,206 –> 00:18:48,066
So red dots actually help you do what you should be doing in a gunfight anyway,

252
00:18:48,166 –> 00:18:53,666
which is, you know, target focus, which is what your brain is going to want to do.

253
00:18:53,666 –> 00:18:57,566
So that type of equipment helps supplement, makes us faster,

254
00:18:57,746 –> 00:19:00,126
but it will not make you faster.

255
00:19:00,846 –> 00:19:06,026
Right. You know, just because a piece of equipment that will make you faster,

256
00:19:06,166 –> 00:19:09,166
you’ve got to have the experience behind it.

257
00:19:09,226 –> 00:19:12,466
You know, you look at three gun guys, competitive guys, you know,

258
00:19:12,466 –> 00:19:16,846
and I hear people scoff at me. Well, they’re three gunners. It’s not a real gunfight.

259
00:19:17,226 –> 00:19:20,866
I hate to tell you, bud, but these guys shoot fast and they shoot accurate.

260
00:19:21,306 –> 00:19:24,926
How do you win a gunfight? Like you shoot fast and accurate, right?

261
00:19:25,566 –> 00:19:28,766
And you’ve got to shoot faster, accurate than the other guy.

262
00:19:28,906 –> 00:19:32,206
Well, the other guy might be training. The other guy might not be training.

263
00:19:32,446 –> 00:19:36,726
You might get lucky. He might get lucky. But I would rather not rely on luck

264
00:19:36,726 –> 00:19:40,346
and rely on training and practice and get faster.

265
00:19:40,526 –> 00:19:44,946
So if there’s something I can do that’s going to get me faster,

266
00:19:45,106 –> 00:19:46,686
and there’s a point of limitation.

267
00:19:46,946 –> 00:19:51,346
Why do you think weightlifters use weight belts? because their body physically

268
00:19:51,346 –> 00:19:54,806
cannot handle that weight without augmentation.

269
00:19:55,386 –> 00:20:01,206
A gun is different. I can’t run that gun any faster without maybe augmenting,

270
00:20:01,206 –> 00:20:09,186
augmenting the trick, augmenting the sights, augmenting other than the presentation portion.

271
00:20:09,386 –> 00:20:13,826
So there comes a point to where I now need help to get faster and more accurate,

272
00:20:13,986 –> 00:20:17,686
and that’s kind of where the gear comes in. You know, you can pick.

273
00:20:18,261 –> 00:20:22,801
Three gunners, the open, the guys that shoot open and the guys that shoot stock,

274
00:20:22,941 –> 00:20:26,941
the guys that shoot iron sights and red dots versus the guys that shoot red

275
00:20:26,941 –> 00:20:29,181
dots on their handguns and magnified optics.

276
00:20:29,281 –> 00:20:33,301
The guys that are shooting enhanced equipment are going to shoot faster,

277
00:20:33,541 –> 00:20:39,401
not because they’re better, but because their equipment has bridged that gap

278
00:20:39,401 –> 00:20:44,061
of, you know, a fair fight, if you will. Yeah.

279
00:20:44,201 –> 00:20:48,521
And I think you make another really good point is, you know,

280
00:20:48,521 –> 00:20:51,181
in competition, it really becomes apparent.

281
00:20:51,401 –> 00:20:56,661
And yeah, the guys with the gear are doing really well, but they’re not doing

282
00:20:56,661 –> 00:21:02,161
really well just because of the $3,500 worth of gear that they’re running.

283
00:21:02,681 –> 00:21:07,421
They’re doing really well because of the training and the practice that they’ve done.

284
00:21:07,641 –> 00:21:13,841
And so I want to go back up just a minute, and hopefully you don’t mind me putting you on the spot.

285
00:21:14,241 –> 00:21:19,781
I want you to explain to our audience in your mind the difference between practicing

286
00:21:19,781 –> 00:21:24,021
and training, because there’s a definite difference between those two,

287
00:21:24,081 –> 00:21:26,261
and I think that’s important to point out and talk about.

288
00:21:26,261 –> 00:21:33,401
Well, training, I look at training as in I’m doing it with somebody.

289
00:21:33,621 –> 00:21:35,661
I’m either being taught something.

290
00:21:36,181 –> 00:21:40,981
I’m in that environment. Like I talk about with jujitsu, like I go in a way

291
00:21:40,981 –> 00:21:43,661
training class, you know, it’s an hour long.

292
00:21:43,801 –> 00:21:47,381
I’m under the tutelage of an instructor that was more than me.

293
00:21:47,621 –> 00:21:51,481
You know, hopefully they know more than me. You know, everybody knows more than

294
00:21:51,481 –> 00:21:56,661
me. And then I take that particular technique…

295
00:21:58,042 –> 00:22:04,942
And I go practice it. You know, am I training in the sense of am I going out

296
00:22:04,942 –> 00:22:07,722
there and doing something, applying something? Yes, I’m training.

297
00:22:07,882 –> 00:22:13,002
But but when you break it down between the two, I find that training is something

298
00:22:13,002 –> 00:22:19,962
you do under with somebody else as as, you know, either being taught or overseen

299
00:22:19,962 –> 00:22:22,522
or instructing somebody else as well.

300
00:22:22,522 –> 00:22:26,962
And then practicing the application of those particular techniques.

301
00:22:27,122 –> 00:22:30,362
You have techniques, you have methods in which we do something.

302
00:22:30,402 –> 00:22:31,962
You practice a magazine reload.

303
00:22:32,122 –> 00:22:38,822
You practice doing a drill, an engagement drill, two to the chest,

304
00:22:38,962 –> 00:22:43,082
one to the head, or four, six, seven to the chest, or whatever the case may

305
00:22:43,082 –> 00:22:44,382
be, whatever that drill is.

306
00:22:44,562 –> 00:22:50,502
You’re practicing that. Yes, I would say argumentatively, yes, you’re training.

307
00:22:50,502 –> 00:22:57,982
But I don’t when I practice, it’s kind of I have to now have a control point

308
00:22:57,982 –> 00:23:01,082
because the only point to practicing is to get better.

309
00:23:01,222 –> 00:23:05,302
If I am doing a specific drill like a magazine reload drill,

310
00:23:05,442 –> 00:23:07,662
like fire one, reload fire one.

311
00:23:07,762 –> 00:23:12,062
Does that have any sort of application to a gunfight?

312
00:23:12,142 –> 00:23:15,222
No, I’m never going to shoot somebody once, do a speed reload and shoot them

313
00:23:15,222 –> 00:23:21,662
one more time. but I took a piece of what I may find myself having to do in,

314
00:23:21,682 –> 00:23:26,002
you know, high situation in a gunfight or something like, and I practice that.

315
00:23:26,042 –> 00:23:29,942
I take a little piece out, you know, and then I can practice doing,

316
00:23:30,022 –> 00:23:34,002
you know, weapons retention or presentation drawing from the holster.

317
00:23:34,082 –> 00:23:40,882
If I appendix carry or purse carry, not that I carry first, you might, but I don’t. Yeah.

318
00:23:42,102 –> 00:23:45,662
I kidney pouch carry. That’s how I do.

319
00:23:46,142 –> 00:23:51,322
The man bag. Yes, man. So there you go. So, uh.

320
00:23:51,939 –> 00:23:58,639
You don’t have to necessarily do training per se, but if you have no grounds

321
00:23:58,639 –> 00:24:04,919
of knowing what the hell you’re doing, then you’ve got to receive instructions somehow.

322
00:24:05,159 –> 00:24:09,059
You have to train under somebody. You can’t just watch YouTube.

323
00:24:09,539 –> 00:24:13,879
Don’t get me wrong. I love YouTube. It’s a lot of good information out there. There is.

324
00:24:14,079 –> 00:24:20,379
For good information, I would say there’s probably 10 that are horrible to the

325
00:24:20,379 –> 00:24:24,599
one. And it’s but you’re filtering you to what is good.

326
00:24:24,739 –> 00:24:27,899
I don’t know. Hey, I saw this technique on YouTube.

327
00:24:28,259 –> 00:24:30,259
Yeah. Well, that’s stupid. But

328
00:24:30,259 –> 00:24:35,179
OK. But it’s out there because there’s no filter on you for stupid stuff.

329
00:24:35,339 –> 00:24:38,859
I mean, that’s why. And for folks that don’t know, it’s the same as anything

330
00:24:38,859 –> 00:24:41,699
else, right? It all looks the same. It all smells the same.

331
00:24:41,819 –> 00:24:44,939
So how do I get through that? Right. And I think part of that is just going

332
00:24:44,939 –> 00:24:49,179
out there and doing it for yourself and figuring it out or signing up for a

333
00:24:49,179 –> 00:24:54,219
class, finding a good class and signing up and going through it and experiencing and going, ah,

334
00:24:54,499 –> 00:24:57,859
that doesn’t really work or that’s stupid, you know, whatever it is.

335
00:24:57,939 –> 00:25:04,999
Or, hey, that’s really a good, a good, a good technique. And I’ve done a lot

336
00:25:04,999 –> 00:25:06,839
of training classes, as have you.

337
00:25:07,119 –> 00:25:11,039
Not just handgun classes, carbine classes, everything.

338
00:25:11,439 –> 00:25:15,959
Everything that I’ve done in life, I’ve gone through a training course, if you will.

339
00:25:16,559 –> 00:25:21,959
And there’s been, in particular, handgun. I’ve gone to some very good ones.

340
00:25:22,479 –> 00:25:27,159
I’ve gone to some others where I’ve had a little bit of takeaway as to everything

341
00:25:27,159 –> 00:25:29,399
I’m doing right now is better.

342
00:25:29,839 –> 00:25:32,499
But it was still trigger time, so that was good.

343
00:25:33,219 –> 00:25:36,759
I never gone to a class and said, well, that was an absolute waste of my time.

344
00:25:36,959 –> 00:25:41,219
I’ve had friends go to other instructors and large name instructors,

345
00:25:41,399 –> 00:25:45,279
and I’m not going to name drop anyway, but, and come back and said,

346
00:25:45,299 –> 00:25:47,019
that was an absolute waste of time.

347
00:25:47,579 –> 00:25:53,379
I argue is, was it a waste of time? Because it was still trigger time.

348
00:25:53,499 –> 00:25:57,579
You may still take away something, right? Even if it’s just the trigger time.

349
00:25:58,019 –> 00:26:01,019
Right. Yeah. I mean, you may have heard more stories of how.

350
00:26:01,743 –> 00:26:07,243
Badass they were, you know, when they were, you know, whatever unit and,

351
00:26:07,343 –> 00:26:10,943
you know, but you didn’t get as much trigger time as you paid for.

352
00:26:11,083 –> 00:26:17,083
So from a, I guess, a value standpoint, they didn’t get as good of a deal on

353
00:26:17,083 –> 00:26:21,603
it because they paid $300 to listen to a guy talk about himself and watch him,

354
00:26:23,683 –> 00:26:27,243
around in eight hours. I’m not saying that that’s good or bad.

355
00:26:27,463 –> 00:26:33,423
I never went to the course, But it’s something it sometimes gives you a different perspective.

356
00:26:33,723 –> 00:26:39,503
I’ve heard instructors say things that, you know, both in philosophical,

357
00:26:39,843 –> 00:26:44,603
you know, sides of things with gunfights and how you think things are going

358
00:26:44,603 –> 00:26:50,223
to happen or your assumptions on things to the way they handle a gun or or shoot

359
00:26:50,223 –> 00:26:52,183
around a barricade or do whatever.

360
00:26:52,183 –> 00:26:58,263
And I go, man, I do exactly that same thing, but I never thought about it from this perspective.

361
00:26:58,423 –> 00:27:04,803
I just did it because that’s what my instructor taught me 20 years ago at my first V course.

362
00:27:05,343 –> 00:27:07,063
And it works for you.

363
00:27:08,223 –> 00:27:11,323
Back then, it was never explained why it works.

364
00:27:11,363 –> 00:27:14,863
It’s shut up and do it, Sealy, and shoot around the barricade.

365
00:27:14,923 –> 00:27:16,303
And, you know, okay, cool.

366
00:27:16,383 –> 00:27:20,063
And I do it. And then you hear somebody break it down as to,

367
00:27:20,223 –> 00:27:23,223
these are things you need to think about. This is why.

368
00:27:23,483 –> 00:27:25,783
And then you start understanding things more.

369
00:27:26,183 –> 00:27:31,163
And I do this with people that come in to the retail store to buy a gun is,

370
00:27:31,243 –> 00:27:34,443
would you rather be educated and know what you’re shopping for?

371
00:27:34,643 –> 00:27:38,623
Or would you rather listen to the monkey behind the counter and tell you what

372
00:27:38,623 –> 00:27:40,363
you need, what you should get?

373
00:27:40,483 –> 00:27:45,083
I would rather be an educated consumer. Yeah. So when I spend my money,

374
00:27:45,163 –> 00:27:50,723
I know it’s spent, you know, it’s a good value and it’s where I want to spend my money.

375
00:27:50,943 –> 00:27:56,063
What do I give up another hundred dollars and then take a training class instead

376
00:27:56,063 –> 00:28:01,703
of buying that cheap whatever in place of what I actually need?

377
00:28:01,703 –> 00:28:04,123
Because I don’t know what I’m doing, so I need training.

378
00:28:04,203 –> 00:28:07,743
Or I know what I’m doing, I need practice. Or I’ve been practicing,

379
00:28:08,103 –> 00:28:10,803
I’ve reached that plateau.

380
00:28:11,223 –> 00:28:14,983
I can’t get any faster out of the holster I’m wearing.

381
00:28:15,123 –> 00:28:19,823
Or I can’t acquire my sights as quickly under these conditions.

382
00:28:19,923 –> 00:28:27,183
That’s when you would start augmenting with said equipment or other options out there. Sure.

383
00:28:27,483 –> 00:28:31,783
But I think the point that we’re trying to make is that you can’t replace or

384
00:28:31,783 –> 00:28:35,103
augment training and know-how with gear.

385
00:28:35,283 –> 00:28:41,463
Gear enhances, certainly, but it doesn’t replace or isn’t in lieu of training.

386
00:28:41,938 –> 00:28:45,018
Correct. I think that’s a safe statement to make.

387
00:28:45,658 –> 00:28:50,418
Yeah, and you can’t put one before the other because, again,

388
00:28:50,538 –> 00:28:52,698
you don’t know what you want. You don’t know.

389
00:28:53,198 –> 00:28:59,598
Until I get trigger time on a Glock, well, I buy a Glock, and then I put in

390
00:28:59,598 –> 00:29:03,358
a drop-in trigger, and then I change the sights, and then I have grip work done

391
00:29:03,358 –> 00:29:05,518
to it, and then I have a magwell put on it.

392
00:29:05,898 –> 00:29:11,378
But you never work the gun in its core, so you don’t know, do you really need

393
00:29:11,378 –> 00:29:13,838
that? You don’t even know if you ever needed it.

394
00:29:14,298 –> 00:29:17,318
Right. Did that $150 trigger.

395
00:29:18,098 –> 00:29:22,318
I’ve seen guys shoot Glocks better than I can shoot a 1911. Yeah.

396
00:29:23,018 –> 00:29:29,338
That’s cool. But, you know, do they just are so good with that Glock that they

397
00:29:29,338 –> 00:29:32,278
don’t need all those enhancements? So why spend the money there?

398
00:29:32,558 –> 00:29:36,878
They put in the trigger time. I’d almost bet you that most of them would put in the trigger time.

399
00:29:37,338 –> 00:29:40,618
But we fall back to instant gratification.

400
00:29:40,978 –> 00:29:45,678
Yeah. Okay, I’m going to buy a Glock, and I’m not, don’t, I don’t want to sound

401
00:29:45,678 –> 00:29:47,898
like I’m harping on Glock, Glock’s a great gun.

402
00:29:48,438 –> 00:29:51,478
Yeah. Isn’t the best gun out there. I have one or two.

403
00:29:52,518 –> 00:29:53,838
Yeah, I’ve got one.

404
00:29:55,438 –> 00:30:00,278
So, they need to do best. I mean, most people can’t out-shoot the gun.

405
00:30:00,478 –> 00:30:05,898
If you take all human elements out of firing that gun, you know,

406
00:30:05,898 –> 00:30:09,778
and just trigger pull sights, it doesn’t matter. or the gun is going to shoot

407
00:30:09,778 –> 00:30:11,658
better than you and I could ever shoot it.

408
00:30:11,918 –> 00:30:18,238
You know, will certain things make it easier for me to take full advantage of

409
00:30:18,238 –> 00:30:21,238
what the gun is capable of? Yes. Same thing with an AR.

410
00:30:21,598 –> 00:30:27,558
You know, when you get with certain builds and designs of ARs or,

411
00:30:27,558 –> 00:30:28,918
you know, what’s better?

412
00:30:29,138 –> 00:30:34,018
You know, muzzle brakes and flash hiders and sights and all these things are

413
00:30:34,018 –> 00:30:38,938
going to, they’re not going to get you better per se, but they’re going to let you fill the gap of.

414
00:30:39,652 –> 00:30:42,972
You know, you can shoot the gun faster and harder, you know,

415
00:30:42,972 –> 00:30:47,652
run the gun harder, run the gun faster when you have supplemented with certain equipment.

416
00:30:47,912 –> 00:30:54,252
You know, I’m not 250 pounds, I’m not 350 pounds, and I’m not 120 pounds.

417
00:30:54,392 –> 00:30:59,592
You know, a .223 rifle doesn’t kick my butt, but it still moves.

418
00:30:59,872 –> 00:31:06,452
You know, and how you prevent those things from moving more is by supplementing

419
00:31:06,452 –> 00:31:09,072
with a piece of equipment like a muzzle braver or something.

420
00:31:09,072 –> 00:31:15,012
So there will be that difference between a, you know, a race gun guy,

421
00:31:15,172 –> 00:31:18,892
like three gun competitive guy that shoots a baseline equipment.

422
00:31:19,112 –> 00:31:25,532
And then the guys that have graduated up to, you know, that $3,000 AR that,

423
00:31:25,612 –> 00:31:30,512
you know, $3,600 salient arm Benelli and, and the, you know,

424
00:31:30,512 –> 00:31:36,032
the, you know, the $3,500 custom STI race guns or whatever it’s.

425
00:31:36,032 –> 00:31:42,972
And I’ve seen that equipment maybe bridge the gap between an okay shooter that

426
00:31:42,972 –> 00:31:47,552
has all that equipment and a good shooter that doesn’t have any of it at all.

427
00:31:47,852 –> 00:31:52,452
Prime example, I’ve seen guys with that only shoot open guns,

428
00:31:52,652 –> 00:31:57,272
only shoot race guns, and I have seen them shoot a non-comps,

429
00:31:57,272 –> 00:32:02,252
non-tuned gun and can’t hold a 10-inch group at 10 yards.

430
00:32:02,832 –> 00:32:05,912
With no pressure nobody shoot back at you you

431
00:32:05,912 –> 00:32:08,772
know because they learn that piece of equipment and

432
00:32:08,772 –> 00:32:11,992
that piece of equipment only they can’t

433
00:32:11,992 –> 00:32:15,712
pick up a regular firearm and shoot it because of

434
00:32:15,712 –> 00:32:19,052
all the things that they are not used to they’re not experienced on not that

435
00:32:19,052 –> 00:32:23,612
they’re a bad shooter per se they have mastered what they have mastered kind

436
00:32:23,612 –> 00:32:28,792
of like having a taekwondo guy fight a judo guy you know totally two different

437
00:32:28,792 –> 00:32:34,092
fight fighting skills you know so one may be the the other out in one skill set and vice versa.

438
00:32:34,692 –> 00:32:40,392
Well, that’s kind of a good point that you make too, is that the gear doesn’t

439
00:32:40,392 –> 00:32:42,232
make you a great shooter.

440
00:32:42,352 –> 00:32:46,552
You just may be a shooter at some level based on your gear.

441
00:32:46,652 –> 00:32:51,432
But if you took all that away, you may or may not be performing at the level

442
00:32:51,432 –> 00:32:57,572
that you want to be or should be minus, you know, sans the gear, right? Well.

443
00:32:58,485 –> 00:33:05,885
But you can’t, like, if I say, yeah, I’ve got a, my carry gun has night sights,

444
00:33:06,125 –> 00:33:10,905
it’s got a red dot on here, it’s got a flared magwell, it’s got a three-pound

445
00:33:10,905 –> 00:33:12,545
trigger, it’s got all these things.

446
00:33:12,545 –> 00:33:16,585
If I’m practicing on that, I’m getting better with that equipment.

447
00:33:17,005 –> 00:33:22,185
Is there a better piece of equipment out there to make me a better shooter? Maybe, maybe not.

448
00:33:22,645 –> 00:33:25,025
But I also don’t want to go backwards.

449
00:33:25,645 –> 00:33:33,485
I carry an STI. It’s a compact STI based off of 1911.

450
00:33:33,925 –> 00:33:37,965
I’m really good with that gun. done. Can I pick a Glock up and do okay?

451
00:33:38,065 –> 00:33:39,845
Can I pick an MMP up and do okay?

452
00:33:40,065 –> 00:33:44,245
Yes, I can. Is it going to be good enough maybe for a gunfight?

453
00:33:44,385 –> 00:33:50,145
Yeah, maybe, but I’m getting the trigger time on a piece of equipment I’m going to use.

454
00:33:50,545 –> 00:33:54,105
I didn’t get that piece of equipment because nothing else worked.

455
00:33:54,205 –> 00:33:59,345
I got that piece of equipment because I realized I had so much time on that

456
00:33:59,345 –> 00:34:03,685
similar piece of equipment that I was fighting what I already knew,

457
00:34:03,825 –> 00:34:10,845
and I was trying to retrain everything I knew or adapted per se to different piece of equipment.

458
00:34:11,425 –> 00:34:18,285
Not saying a 1911-ish, 2011 style gun is better than an M&P,

459
00:34:18,465 –> 00:34:23,985
a Glock, a Beretta, a VP9, H&K VP9 or anything.

460
00:34:24,145 –> 00:34:31,205
It’s not better. It’s different that I have, this is by no means means of arrogance,

461
00:34:31,365 –> 00:34:33,525
but I have mastered that gun.

462
00:34:33,525 –> 00:34:39,505
You know, can I duplicate what I can do with that gun with a VP9?

463
00:34:39,825 –> 00:34:46,145
No. Can I still shoot a VP9? Yes. Are the fundamentals still true to both systems?

464
00:34:46,445 –> 00:34:51,425
Absolutely. Sure. But I didn’t buy that because my skill level stuck.

465
00:34:51,665 –> 00:34:57,045
I bought that because of my baseline skill level on that particular system.

466
00:34:57,445 –> 00:35:02,725
And it’s it’s it’s the same with anything. But that’s when we get into walk

467
00:35:02,725 –> 00:35:07,845
into that gun store, walk into a situation in which we want equipment.

468
00:35:07,945 –> 00:35:11,865
We don’t ever think about the training and the practice that.

469
00:35:11,925 –> 00:35:14,125
Right. There’s a baseline training.

470
00:35:14,770 –> 00:35:18,290
I think about, you know, just replace it with equipment. You can’t do that.

471
00:35:18,370 –> 00:35:20,130
It’s like navigating with a GPS.

472
00:35:20,530 –> 00:35:23,730
The GPS fails. I can’t read a map.

473
00:35:24,150 –> 00:35:31,310
So have that foundation. You’ve got to be able to have a core starting point

474
00:35:31,310 –> 00:35:34,390
and then progress. It’s not all inclusive.

475
00:35:35,030 –> 00:35:40,330
It’s a guy that’s got a baseline skill versus a guy with a baseline skill with better equipment.

476
00:35:40,330 –> 00:35:45,370
Yeah, the guy with baseline same equal skills with better equipment is probably

477
00:35:45,370 –> 00:35:47,450
going to be able to do it a little bit better then.

478
00:35:47,450 –> 00:35:53,830
Well, you make a good point, directly or indirectly, that even with the gear,

479
00:35:54,010 –> 00:36:00,230
even when you tack on a thousand plus dollars of equipment, RMR, whatever,

480
00:36:00,610 –> 00:36:08,310
night sights, crazy trigger, whatever, the training with that gear is what makes

481
00:36:08,310 –> 00:36:11,330
you proficient and effective with the gear.

482
00:36:11,330 –> 00:36:14,310
It’s not that the gear brought you up to the level.

483
00:36:14,350 –> 00:36:18,710
It’s that you working with that gear brought you up to the level.

484
00:36:18,790 –> 00:36:23,070
And I think that’s a, that’s a good takeaway too, because my takeaway from all

485
00:36:23,070 –> 00:36:27,030
this conversation we’re having is it’s not the gear that makes you,

486
00:36:27,090 –> 00:36:28,890
it’s really the training and practice.

487
00:36:29,090 –> 00:36:33,310
And I, and, and, and for our audience, I hope they’re taking that away too,

488
00:36:33,430 –> 00:36:39,190
because you know, the $500 laser on your AR isn’t going to make you shoot your

489
00:36:39,190 –> 00:36:41,030
layer after dark any better.

490
00:36:41,330 –> 00:36:47,150
Right. I mean, it might, but it’s only after you’ve trained with it that it will. And so.

491
00:36:48,570 –> 00:36:53,010
Familiarization with what you have. Yes. You know, and if you can get all that

492
00:36:53,010 –> 00:36:54,770
cool stuff, that that’s great.

493
00:36:55,560 –> 00:37:00,120
But you still got to put in the trigger time. You still have to put in the effort.

494
00:37:00,220 –> 00:37:01,600
You still got to go to the gym.

495
00:37:01,800 –> 00:37:05,880
You still got to do all those things. It’s not take magical pill,

496
00:37:06,060 –> 00:37:11,440
swallow that pill, or get on Amazon and replace it that way.

497
00:37:11,500 –> 00:37:15,040
You’ve got to go to the range. You’ve got to drive practice.

498
00:37:15,380 –> 00:37:20,280
And these guys that are top-level competitive shooters and these guys that have

499
00:37:20,280 –> 00:37:26,500
been downrange in gunfight, You honestly think any of these guys haven’t spent hours and hours,

500
00:37:26,640 –> 00:37:32,460
hundreds or thousands of hours doing that exact thing that they are training

501
00:37:32,460 –> 00:37:38,940
to execute or that they may end up having to execute when they go overseas or

502
00:37:38,940 –> 00:37:43,960
pull somebody over at two o’clock in the morning for a broken taillight.

503
00:37:43,960 –> 00:37:47,860
Whatever you you cannot just

504
00:37:47,860 –> 00:37:50,940
rely on the equipment too many times i’ve seen

505
00:37:50,940 –> 00:37:53,600
people come in and say well what’s the

506
00:37:53,600 –> 00:37:56,720
perfect light what’s the perfect sights what’s the perfect holster

507
00:37:56,720 –> 00:38:00,960
what’s the perfect trigger i’m just gonna throw this you know or what’s the

508
00:38:00,960 –> 00:38:05,540
perfect gun i’m just gonna i never want to shoot it i’m just gonna buy it and

509
00:38:05,540 –> 00:38:12,180
stick it in my my dress If I buy the $3,500 weapon with all outfitted with all

510
00:38:12,180 –> 00:38:15,880
the stuff that I know makes the top people, the top people,

511
00:38:15,940 –> 00:38:20,300
then I know on the rare occasion that I get out of the box,

512
00:38:20,480 –> 00:38:24,660
that $3,500 plus gun is going to make me perform.

513
00:38:25,340 –> 00:38:34,340
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s like, do you need a $2,700 AR or $700

514
00:38:34,340 –> 00:38:36,660
AR with $2,000 worth of training?

515
00:38:36,660 –> 00:38:39,320
And practice you know and i’m not

516
00:38:39,320 –> 00:38:42,160
saying you need two thousand dollars worth of training and practice but

517
00:38:42,160 –> 00:38:45,760
one bullets aren’t cheap not all practice

518
00:38:45,760 –> 00:38:49,000
requires you to go to a range but you

519
00:38:49,000 –> 00:38:51,980
we don’t learn through osmosis i don’t

520
00:38:51,980 –> 00:38:55,040
you know if you’re learning how to do math you can’t just read a

521
00:38:55,040 –> 00:38:58,680
book you’ve actually got to write some stuff down on a piece of paper when

522
00:38:58,680 –> 00:39:01,340
it cheating a calculator your whole life you’re never

523
00:39:01,340 –> 00:39:04,060
going to be a lad two plus two you know or give me

524
00:39:04,060 –> 00:39:08,040
change at the drive-thru without a calculator yeah

525
00:39:08,040 –> 00:39:10,740
you know in my mind and this is just

526
00:39:10,740 –> 00:39:14,820
how my small mind works i would rather go

527
00:39:14,820 –> 00:39:18,600
with the the person that’s got the 700

528
00:39:18,600 –> 00:39:22,860
ar and the two thousand dollars worth of training if that’s what your training

529
00:39:22,860 –> 00:39:29,040
is versus the guy with the ar with two thousand dollars worth of crap facility

530
00:39:29,040 –> 00:39:35,040
you know put on it and zero or very little training on it i’ll take the guy

531
00:39:35,040 –> 00:39:36,220
with the training any day.

532
00:39:36,889 –> 00:39:42,689
Yeah, and you probably have stood next to somebody on the range.

533
00:39:42,949 –> 00:39:46,789
I’ve had students in front of me with, they had money.

534
00:39:47,269 –> 00:39:50,949
They bought all the coolest equipment, you know, the annual defense,

535
00:39:51,289 –> 00:39:54,129
the aim point pros and all this other stuff.

536
00:39:54,289 –> 00:39:59,829
You know, body armor and all the tactical cool stuff that they couldn’t,

537
00:39:59,829 –> 00:40:01,829
they couldn’t operate that firearm at all.

538
00:40:01,909 –> 00:40:05,049
And I’m not saying that at least they were taking a training class. Absolutely.

539
00:40:05,809 –> 00:40:08,929
I’m encouraging that don’t take a training class unless you know what you’re

540
00:40:08,929 –> 00:40:10,829
doing, because that’s kind of counterproductive.

541
00:40:11,049 –> 00:40:14,809
You know, I’ve taken plenty of training classes where I had no clue what I was

542
00:40:14,809 –> 00:40:16,669
doing and I look like a buffoon.

543
00:40:17,009 –> 00:40:21,089
But you’re learning, right? But it’s that first step.

544
00:40:21,309 –> 00:40:24,529
Just because I could afford nice equipment in the beginning,

545
00:40:24,689 –> 00:40:26,929
I’m not faulting anybody for that.

546
00:40:26,929 –> 00:40:33,829
What I am faulting is for those that just like you mentioned that just going

547
00:40:33,829 –> 00:40:35,849
to spend that $2,700 on an AR,

548
00:40:36,029 –> 00:40:41,469
not shoot it, and then you shoot it, especially in a home defense situation

549
00:40:41,469 –> 00:40:43,309
or whatever other type of situation,

550
00:40:43,509 –> 00:40:48,529
and somebody unintentionally gets hurt that they didn’t mean to hurt, it’s on them.

551
00:40:48,529 –> 00:40:52,589
It’s not on Daniel Defense because they built a nice rifle. It’s not on Aimpoint.

552
00:40:52,889 –> 00:40:59,329
They built a bomb-proof optic. It’s on them because they failed to train with

553
00:40:59,329 –> 00:41:00,009
that piece of equipment.

554
00:41:00,469 –> 00:41:03,289
Yeah. You’ve got to know your stuff. You’ve got to use your stuff,

555
00:41:03,429 –> 00:41:06,869
know it, practice it, train it, train with it. Yeah.

556
00:41:07,349 –> 00:41:12,769
That concludes Part 1 of 2. Join us for Part 2 where we continue our discussion

557
00:41:12,769 –> 00:41:15,129
with Van talking about training versus gear.

558
00:41:15,280 –> 00:41:36,415
Music.