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Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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Today, I’ve brought back my very special guest, my kindred brother from Canada,

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Randy King of the 80-20 Conflict Management Systems. Did I get that right?

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Strategies. Strategies. I might have put it wrong, too. 80-20 Conflict.

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So we switched the name back and forth.

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Yeah. Management Strategies. Strategies. Solution.

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Yeah. So I might have gave it to you wrong.

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No, it’s probably me reading backwards or something. Who knows?

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Yeah, and so that’s recent change. And, you know, I was calculating today.

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So podcast 29 is what we did last. That was our first podcast together.

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And it was kind of focused around your program, realities of violence.

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I’m having a speech impediment problem today, evidently.

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And it’s been 10 months going on 11 months since we did that first one.

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And now we’re back today and want to talk to folks about de-escalation,

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a very important topic in the realm of violence and conflict management.

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And, you know, if you want to learn more about Randy, go back and listen to

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Podcast 29 because he does a great intro there.

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But I’m going to make you do it again here. Not the full thing necessarily,

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because we want folks to go back and listen to that one, certainly,

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especially now that it’s almost been a year.

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But I know that the 80-20 conflict management strategies is kind of a new revamping

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of what you’re doing, isn’t it?

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That’s 100% correct. So I, for the listeners who don’t know who I am,

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number one, thanks for listening. Share the show, everybody.

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I am an education-based self-defense instructor.

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And that’s probably different than what I said last time. And my focus is on

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conflict management and violence prevention.

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A lot of that switched kind of over this pandemic, but also over like a roof

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of my career. So I’m very lucky that people have received me very well.

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So I’ve had the honor and the privilege to work with just a wide demographic

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of people from First Nations, women’s shelters, corporations,

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the law enforcement, the military, the civilians, the martial athletes.

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I’ve kind of trained to talk to everybody. And I honestly believe that when

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you have people in limited time, which I do, I’m a seminar-based instructor.

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I travel. I used to travel. I’m going to travel again. But when I only get you

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for maybe 6 to 12 hours, education is by far the most important aspect of what I can give you.

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Education is accessible now, and techniques take time.

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So I revamp my business from APC self-defense to 80-20 conference magic strategy

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because I’m moving more into space education.

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There’s so much. There’s already a lot of really good people out there.

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You’ve had a bunch on the show that deal with the physical skill set.

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But beforehand, in the aftermath, there’s just holes.

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There’s huge gaping holes that are unnecessary. And I’d like to fill those up

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and make sure that people understand that a lot of this stuff is preventable.

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If you have strong boundaries, if you have constitutional awareness,

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and that’s not 100% armor.

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It’s not going to stop everything, but it’s going to stop a lot of stuff.

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So, yeah, that’s what I do. I’m an education-based instructor.

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As you mentioned, I have the reality pilot program.

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I’m releasing a new course July 1st called Reality Boundary Setting,

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which I firmly believe is the root of all self-defense.

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If you don’t have good boundaries, you’re more likely to be selected by predators.

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You’re more likely to be victimized and bullied.

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So I really believe the education portion of this is necessary,

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and that’s where I’m dedicating my life to now.

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I’m still teaching physical stuff, like for funsies, but that’s not what I do for a living. Yeah.

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And I think we kind of connected the first time we talked on that level,

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because I think we both agree.

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And I think I may even said it like this when we talked the first time,

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is that I’ve long been of the opinion, after having done some physical stuff

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anyway, that the information and educational pieces are just,

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if not more important than the physical aspects and the physical training.

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And with that being said you know when we

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talked about realities of violence the last time i

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think you know i signed up for that

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course just to go through it myself to see what you were putting out there

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and i was you know blown away by the content so

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if you guys listening have an opportunity it doesn’t

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cost that much and it provides you a lot of good core

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foundational types of information even above foundational

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check out the realities of violence that randy put

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out for sure and yeah so it’s safe

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to say that you’re you’re connecting with folks on more of a

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cerebral level which is a nice change of

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pace in the self-defense community for sure well yeah it’s uh it’s interesting

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and it’s definitely more difficult like teaching somebody how to do an agoshi

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or a sinawali drill or a reverse punch that’s like and i’m not trying to minimize

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anybody’s accomplishments out there but that’s the easy part the hard part is

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making them physically ready to do it,

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making them mentally ready to do it, teaching them that they’re worth defending, right?

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Teaching them that you know, this physical part.

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This is a hammer, and we want you to have a whole school kit,

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right? And like we’re going to talk about today, we’re going to be talking about de-exhaulation.

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It’s the piece that people don’t normally give out.

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And it’s not that people are doing it dis-service.

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They’re not. The physical skills are very important. It’s just in the world

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we live in, the odds of you getting into a physical encounter,

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if you’re not a jerk, is really low, right?

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So you can still pick bites at bars all day. And then we have to look at exactly

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how this comes up, right? So we look at stats.

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If you can’t identify a problem, you’re not going to be able to react to that problem.

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So if you can’t identify what type of violence it is or what victim profiles

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you fall into, it’d be very hard to come up with a proper response to that situation.

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Yep. Agreed. So de-escalation, I can’t help, and I’ve already decided in promo

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for this, I’m going to do it because I can’t help.

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When I think of the word de-escalation, I always think of an escalator.

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Don’t know why. Mind is a word association, right?

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So I’m totally going to use that for this, for us.

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But talking about de-escalation, you know, it’s a critical piece of the whole

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conflict management ecosystem, if you will, right?

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But when we get to de-escalation, you know, we’ve kind of passed up our situational

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awareness and our, maybe our ability to avoid, we may have just stumbled right into something.

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So let’s talk about a little bit about what de-escalation

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is and what it means so de-escalation is

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uh it’s kind of a buzzword in the and i think it’s correctly a lot uh de-escalation

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is something i’ve kind of been naturally good at i’ve always had the gift of

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gab as it’s been said so when i was a bouncer i’m going to kind of go back to

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like why i got under de-escalation that’s okay sure does that work for you yeah

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absolutely i think it’s important,

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Okay, so when I first started, when I was a bouncer, every, just for you listeners,

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every single martial arts or combat, whatever.

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So I was also one of those. And my first, like, three years of it,

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I kind of treated it like Roadhouse, like, you know, be nice,

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don’t kind of be nice, don’t worry about it.

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And Roadhouse is a movie for some of your listeners. Yeah, for those that have

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no idea who Patrick Swayze is or Sam Elliott, and you want to see an awesome

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action flick, Roadhouse is where it’s at.

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Roadhouse is great. It’s nostalgic

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for me, too. My life was based off Roadhouse for a good few years.

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So anyways, I learned very quickly in my career as a balance was I decided that

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being the tough guy wasn’t as cool, that nobody punched the smiling security guy, right?

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So I actually have a course called Smiling Security that’s taught in multiple

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countries through door staff and downstairs all around the world.

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And it’s kind of off the preface of, you know, people want to pick fights that

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people they believe are tough or they can gain social status from or they can

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gain the kind of money, pleasure, whatever, from that person.

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And if you’re the friendly, smiley guy, the odds of you getting punched are low.

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I have a little quick story where I remember I used to work at a very rough

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bar. and so did every structure of the class but it was a very rough bar during

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an oil boom here in Edmonton it’s like it’s like.

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And I remember walking into a fight, pulling two guys apart,

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and they wanted to kill each other.

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And then one guy raised his fist and turned and looked at me and he’s like,

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oh, not the friendly guy.

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He actually said that. Not the friendly guy. Not him. They stopped fighting.

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Yeah, they stopped fighting. If I was like the tough guy bouncer,

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that would have been like a fight. Maybe I’m going to get stabbed again. Who knows?

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But the stabbing really, really showed me that, you know, the escalation is

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very important because you don’t know what level people are willing to escalate to.

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So that was kind of my first point if you can’t talk a drunk at a bar probably

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drunk jump if you can’t you know right like these guys have to be tough guys

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at a bar like you can’t trick a drunk person you need a new job like this is

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not a hard thing you don’t need to be a hero with 600 street lights or whatever,

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so that was kind of my first case at the escalation how powerful it was because

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I was always in a conflict situation where I was telling drunk people no and

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And one of the most dangerous jobs you can get is a place where you tell the public no, right?

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Because some of the public isn’t going to respond to no very well.

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Well, especially when you’ve got a little bit of liquid courage in you too,

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right? That adds some interesting elements as well.

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Yeah, and liquid courage floods, right? Right. The extracurricular chemicals

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that aren’t maybe legal where you’re from in their system as well,

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which are interacting. Yeah, yeah.

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So in that situation, that was kind of my first phase of the escalation.

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And then I kind of went from there, but it was something that came naturally to it.

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So I never really, I never really analyzed it.

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This is, I think this is a problem with any kind of learning model is if the

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coach is good at something and they don’t know how they got good at it,

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it’s very hard to transmit information to others.

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So I’m Canadian, so I’ll use a very Canadian reference. Wayne Gretzky was one

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of the greatest hockey players of all time.

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He could, when he became a coach, he couldn’t transmit that greatness.

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Because he didn’t know how he got great. He just went to become a coach,

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and it wasn’t the same thing.

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So I had to step back and start analyzing, what is the escalation?

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How does it work? Why is it working for me?

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And one of the biggest factors that a lot of instructors don’t get to do it,

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just because it works for me, will that work for other people?

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So I’m six foot one, and I’m over

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250 pounds and I’m not a little guy like I’m chubby but I’m solid so maybe my

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de-escalation tactic might not work for my daughter who is 5 feet tall and 80

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pounds so all of this stuff came in so to me to answer your question the most

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roundabout way I thought.

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De-escalation is de-escalation is taking a situation and using verbal cues,

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body language tone, cadence,

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all of the ways you communicate to then try to take the boil down on that situation.

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So if things are starting to heat up, that escalating de-escalation is just

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trying to bring it back down.

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And it’s a tricky skill, but once you get it, it’s very easy.

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Honestly, it sometimes feels like a math.

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Learning how to de-escalate has been one of the things that has improved my

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life across the board, not even in just physical situations,

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but in my relationship and with my friend groups and all of that work, right?

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Learning how to de-escalate is very important.

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So there’s a couple of things you need to know about de-escalation,

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which I’m sure we’re going to talk about coming up.

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Yeah. And you know, you touched on a point that I wanted to make.

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So thanks for stealing my thunder.

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And that is, no, it’s quite all right. We need to talk about all this stuff.

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You know, I think so oftentimes at least, and I’m guilty of it myself,

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so that’s why I want to make a point of saying it now, is so oftentimes when

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I hear or think of de-escalation, I think I’m in conflict or, you know,

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trying to avoid conflict, right, or prevent it from escalating further,

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right, hence de-escalation.

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But, you know, there’s a element for personal use of de-escalation, right?

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You know, emotional maturity, you’re upset about something, realizing that you’re

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upset and you need to walk away and take a break, right?

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You know, what are they, I’m going to screw it up, but what do they say?

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Something at the effect of the best cure for anger is time, right?

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And you got to recognize that and walk away, you know, whatever it is.

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So de-escalation isn’t necessarily about all about violence and physical conflict necessarily.

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It’s, it’s got a purpose and a place, even, even in your personal life, right? For yourself.

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Absolutely. You can look at de-escalation in three ways.

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So number one, one of the first rules, and I’m going to be saying this probably

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a lot during this show, is you need to be able to de-escalate yourself first.

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So you being angry is not going to help a situation yet.

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If you’re yelling at somebody to calm down, there’s a history of that never working.

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So there’s an internal de-escalation that you need to have on yourself.

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I’m a student of Rory Miller. I’m doing a tour with Rory Miller coming up here in September.

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He wrote a great book called Conflict Communications.

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It is my favorite de-isolation program. I’ve taken a bunch of them.

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Listeners, I highly recommend you grab that book or take that course,

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or you can hire me to run that course, whatever you want.

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Even better. It’s a little plug. It is one of my favorite courses.

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I was the second licensed instructor through Glory, only because I was lazy

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to become number one I could have been.

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I’ve taken that course 14 times. Taken it, not taught it. Taken the course 14 times.

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And every time I get something new from it. But the biggest standout is number

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one, you need to be able to de-escalate yourself first.

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So like you said earlier, Jim, it’s about maturity, right?

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It’s about knowing your own emotions, right? Anger, anger and time,

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those are very important. So that’s the first thing. You don’t know how to be a place.

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And just to add on to that real quick, the other thing that comes to mind that’s

00:14:30.999 –> 00:14:35.279
just as important as the emotional recognition and keeping that in check.

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I think another key piece, especially for guys and guys in the bar,

00:14:39.839 –> 00:14:41.919
like what you were talking about just a couple of minutes ago,

00:14:42.079 –> 00:14:48.459
is recognizing that you’ve got an ego and you need to get that in check, too, in a hurry, right?

00:14:50.159 –> 00:14:54.739
Absolutely. I had to learn that lesson the hard way. My ego is out of control.

00:14:54.839 –> 00:14:57.119
It’s still not great, but it needs to be out of control.

00:14:57.459 –> 00:15:01.919
And that would cause you to make more decisions, right? I thought people challenged me personally.

00:15:02.139 –> 00:15:06.159
I couldn’t recognize the stress levels of myself rising.

00:15:06.379 –> 00:15:09.159
And I thought everybody thinks they’re making good decisions for stress.

00:15:09.319 –> 00:15:13.219
That’s one of the brain’s biggest tricks is it makes you think you’re making the proper decision.

00:15:13.739 –> 00:15:16.639
That’s that tribal, if we want to call it, a.k.a. the monkey brain.

00:15:16.639 –> 00:15:19.739
That’s the thing that you know it’s worried about your the

00:15:19.739 –> 00:15:22.359
reflection of you with others and so it you know

00:15:22.359 –> 00:15:25.079
i have to look tough your people are going to think i’m weak or people are

00:15:25.079 –> 00:15:27.839
going to think i’m a punk or whatever whatever word you want to

00:15:27.839 –> 00:15:32.799
use there right and so we over react or we over perform in these situations

00:15:32.799 –> 00:15:36.939
because like said right we don’t have that emotional recognition i don’t even

00:15:36.939 –> 00:15:39.479
want to say maturity you might be mature but you don’t have the recognition

00:15:39.479 –> 00:15:42.419
you’re getting like like so many people how many people have you dealt with

00:15:42.419 –> 00:15:45.899
when you’re like hey like it seems like you might be a little angry like i’m not angry.

00:15:47.879 –> 00:15:51.559
I don’t have a problem what are you talking about yeah yeah

00:15:51.559 –> 00:15:54.579
i think you might have a problem i think so yeah

00:15:54.579 –> 00:15:59.259
yeah from from there then we need to learn how to de-escalate the the person

00:15:59.259 –> 00:16:02.199
we’re talking to right so we need to learn how to make that communication but

00:16:02.199 –> 00:16:06.799
the third thing that people also forget about is like you can pre-de-escalate

00:16:06.799 –> 00:16:11.059
if that makes sense so you can like set up an environment to make sure it’s

00:16:11.059 –> 00:16:11.959
not a hostile environment,

00:16:12.599 –> 00:16:16.199
You can de-escalate the environment. You can take away bottles.

00:16:16.439 –> 00:16:20.119
You can take away weapons. You can take away things that might escalate the situation.

00:16:20.519 –> 00:16:24.439
Remove people from a room is de-escalation. A great example,

00:16:24.719 –> 00:16:28.919
the HA, the Hells Angels, used to not own the bar I was in, but they frequented off.

00:16:29.259 –> 00:16:32.999
When they used to get in the fight, it was never the full patch map.

00:16:33.139 –> 00:16:34.579
Those guys were very tough.

00:16:34.979 –> 00:16:39.059
But the prospect, when they would fight, we didn’t go to the prospect and say,

00:16:39.239 –> 00:16:40.539
stop, we went to the guy in charge.

00:16:41.159 –> 00:16:44.679
That’s a de-escalation tactic. as well, but that’s an environmental situation, right?

00:16:44.959 –> 00:16:48.359
We need you, boss, to remove this guy because I don’t want to pick a fight with

00:16:48.359 –> 00:16:54.219
him because what if the up and up in that hierarchy takes offense to me getting in their business.

00:16:54.839 –> 00:16:58.059
So, de-escalate yourself. You need to learn how to de-escalate the situation,

00:16:58.059 –> 00:17:02.379
but the situation also includes things around you. So, it could be somebody’s agitated.

00:17:02.599 –> 00:17:06.799
You get somebody to remove a sharp object. You bring them into a room with the

00:17:06.799 –> 00:17:10.219
lighting that’s not as bright, or you take them out of the bar situation where

00:17:10.219 –> 00:17:13.399
the music’s like, blah, blah, blah. It’s like you’re tapping them up and you

00:17:13.399 –> 00:17:16.559
put them somewhere else. So de-escalation comes a lot of work.

00:17:17.719 –> 00:17:20.359
Yeah. And, you know, in your space, right? I mean, just saying,

00:17:20.459 –> 00:17:23.539
hey, guys, let’s go outside and talk about this and come to a resolution,

00:17:23.539 –> 00:17:27.459
just getting them off the property, so to speak, right?

00:17:27.639 –> 00:17:31.299
Like outside those front doors, away from the loud music. So if nothing else,

00:17:31.399 –> 00:17:37.259
they can hear that those verbal aspects of the de-escalation that’s about to go down, right?

00:17:38.279 –> 00:17:41.739
Exactly. And that’s one of the things that people forget when they’re doing

00:17:41.739 –> 00:17:45.679
any kind of tactical, it’s called tactical communication, or they’re doing any

00:17:45.679 –> 00:17:49.859
kind of goal-driven communication. That’s a better way to say it.

00:17:50.399 –> 00:17:56.419
So goal-driven communication is that your tone and the way you speak and your

00:17:56.419 –> 00:17:58.179
inflection, it’s all going to make a difference, right?

00:17:58.179 –> 00:18:01.479
So everybody, I’m sure all your listeners have heard this statistic,

00:18:01.659 –> 00:18:08.299
like 80% of all communication is like body language.

00:18:08.399 –> 00:18:11.079
Body language, yeah. And the other 40% is the words, right?

00:18:11.479 –> 00:18:16.139
So 60% is body language. The next 20% is how you say the words.

00:18:16.339 –> 00:18:20.679
And then the words are a very small portion, right? So I can say,

00:18:20.799 –> 00:18:24.299
and I do this in courses, and it’s a little invasive, but it’s fun for me.

00:18:24.299 –> 00:18:28.519
So what I’ll do is I’ll be like, I’ll take a posture, a standing posture.

00:18:29.172 –> 00:18:33.232
And then I’ll lean backwards and I’ll say like this. So I’m leaning back away

00:18:33.232 –> 00:18:36.492
from the subject. I’ll be like, don’t mess with me. I’m the toughest man in the world.

00:18:36.752 –> 00:18:38.892
They’re like, okay. I’m like, how did that make you feel? They’re like,

00:18:38.992 –> 00:18:42.092
well, I don’t believe. I’m like, but I just said I was the toughest man.

00:18:42.452 –> 00:18:45.532
And then what I’ll do is I’ll get really close in their space.

00:18:45.532 –> 00:18:47.812
I’ll take like a predatory punch. I’ll look at them and be like,

00:18:48.212 –> 00:18:49.352
don’t worry, you’re safe.

00:18:49.712 –> 00:18:52.192
And they’re like, what? Like, do you feel safe? They’re like,

00:18:52.292 –> 00:18:54.152
no. I’m like, so do these words mean anything?

00:18:54.352 –> 00:18:57.152
Or should you be paying attention to my body language, my own,

00:18:57.292 –> 00:19:00.412
how I’m saying stuff? Because humans use words to lie.

00:19:00.632 –> 00:19:03.372
It’s harder to lie with your body. Yeah.

00:19:04.252 –> 00:19:08.432
Yeah. You know, and another great example that I think of a lot of times,

00:19:08.532 –> 00:19:12.932
too, is, you know, they talk about how when someone crosses their arms,

00:19:13.152 –> 00:19:17.752
you know, for for for women, what I understand, that’s just a very natural,

00:19:18.032 –> 00:19:20.272
comfortable position for them to be in.

00:19:20.352 –> 00:19:24.352
Right. So it’s harder sometimes to tell what that might mean for them.

00:19:24.512 –> 00:19:28.412
They might just be hanging out because it’s comfy. Right. But for a guy to do

00:19:28.412 –> 00:19:32.672
that with his arms closed, that’s a pretty good sign that he’s,

00:19:32.672 –> 00:19:36.832
you know, contemplating something awkward, uncomfortable, whatever.

00:19:37.132 –> 00:19:43.972
And talking about podcast on video, I was watching a video podcast of someone

00:19:43.972 –> 00:19:49.372
else in our space. and they were talking about, you know, I think it was some

00:19:49.372 –> 00:19:51.472
personal aspects of their life, right?

00:19:51.612 –> 00:19:54.032
Just answering the interviewer’s questions, whatever.

00:19:54.392 –> 00:19:58.452
And he was talking, you know, he was talking and going along with what was,

00:19:58.512 –> 00:19:59.912
you know, being asked of him.

00:20:00.052 –> 00:20:04.352
But at a point, and I don’t even, I didn’t even recognize when it happened,

00:20:04.352 –> 00:20:10.052
but at a point I noticed that this guy’s arms were crossed during the interview.

00:20:10.492 –> 00:20:13.412
And he’s sitting at his desk with his arms crossed. And I was like,

00:20:13.472 –> 00:20:18.812
okay, he’s either put off by the topic, not comfortable talking about the topic,

00:20:18.812 –> 00:20:22.572
or he’s already bored with this podcast, you know, something was going on there.

00:20:22.772 –> 00:20:26.052
So that body language tells all kinds of things, right?

00:20:27.192 –> 00:20:30.312
Exactly. And I like what you said there. You kind of touched on it,

00:20:30.312 –> 00:20:31.772
but I just want to extrapolate. Yeah.

00:20:32.352 –> 00:20:34.692
One, one cue doesn’t mean anything.

00:20:34.932 –> 00:20:38.792
So crossing my arms, that one thing doesn’t mean really anything.

00:20:38.952 –> 00:20:42.772
Maybe they’re chilly, maybe they’re bored, maybe they’re offensive, right?

00:20:42.952 –> 00:20:46.352
Yeah. We’re looking for clusters or groupings of those behaviors, right?

00:20:46.532 –> 00:20:51.052
So if they do three or four things in a sequence of aggressiveness, right?

00:20:51.232 –> 00:20:53.632
So if a person just crosses their arm, that’s not a big deal.

00:20:53.732 –> 00:20:57.132
But if they cross their arm, they lean forward, they take a deep breath,

00:20:57.272 –> 00:20:59.552
their nostrils flare, you’re like, okay, this is aggression,

00:20:59.872 –> 00:21:02.212
right? Because we have multiple different…

00:21:03.048 –> 00:21:06.668
Data points on this. But a person is crossing their arms or crossing their legs,

00:21:07.568 –> 00:21:11.148
isn’t enough to make that assumption, but it is enough to see that the baseline

00:21:11.148 –> 00:21:13.288
has changed, and so you should be paying more attention.

00:21:13.708 –> 00:21:18.748
Yeah, and that’s a good point. I mean, for all I know, this guy’s leg was bouncing

00:21:18.748 –> 00:21:23.288
up and down really quickly underneath his desk while he’s interviewing, right?

00:21:23.388 –> 00:21:26.788
And that would have been another indicator of, okay, his arms is crossed,

00:21:26.968 –> 00:21:29.608
he’s bouncing his knee up and down really fast.

00:21:29.928 –> 00:21:31.848
What’s making this guy so uncomfortable?

00:21:33.268 –> 00:21:37.548
I want to go, go ahead, sorry. Oh, no, I was going to stay kind of on that note

00:21:37.548 –> 00:21:39.828
of body language. I always like to give resources to people.

00:21:40.108 –> 00:21:42.988
So there’s a book by Joe Navarro, I believe his name is.

00:21:43.308 –> 00:21:47.448
He’s a former FBI agent. The book is called What Every Body Is Saying.

00:21:47.588 –> 00:21:50.628
It’s not everybody, everybody. Yeah. What Every Body Is Saying.

00:21:51.068 –> 00:21:54.288
It’s a quick read. Like, I think audiobook is only seven hours.

00:21:54.528 –> 00:21:59.288
But he has one of my favorite models for identifying what people are going through.

00:21:59.368 –> 00:22:01.868
He makes it very simple. So I highly recommend you have it.

00:22:03.228 –> 00:22:08.248
Cool. I need to check that out for sure. So going back to this point that you

00:22:08.248 –> 00:22:14.488
made earlier, which I think is a great one, and hopefully be able to talk about

00:22:14.488 –> 00:22:16.568
recognizing some of the things.

00:22:16.568 –> 00:22:24.808
You said that people, and I totally agree, people don’t always recognize when

00:22:24.808 –> 00:22:28.968
they’re about to blow up and they think that they’re, you know,

00:22:29.028 –> 00:22:30.608
I’m not angry, like we said, right?

00:22:30.828 –> 00:22:36.948
And they think they’re making rational, calm, you know, intelligent decisions

00:22:36.948 –> 00:22:38.208
when they’re really not.

00:22:38.428 –> 00:22:43.228
Can we talk about some of those cues that we should recognize within ourselves?

00:22:44.388 –> 00:22:50.628
Absolutely. So I think Miller says it fast, which is he uses the triune brain

00:22:50.628 –> 00:22:52.148
model, which I also like to use.

00:22:52.268 –> 00:22:55.648
It’s been debunked, but as a model, it works well to create the language to

00:22:55.648 –> 00:22:56.788
talk about people to think.

00:22:57.388 –> 00:23:01.288
So triune brain model says we have three brains. We don’t. We have one brain. It’s integrated.

00:23:02.488 –> 00:23:05.948
But we have what’s called the human brain. He calls it, which is your neocortex.

00:23:06.308 –> 00:23:09.948
Primarily, there’s other systems that work. Then he has what he calls the monkey

00:23:09.948 –> 00:23:14.588
brain. I like to say tribal, but it’s your limbic system, which is kind of like

00:23:14.588 –> 00:23:15.788
your emotional response system.

00:23:16.148 –> 00:23:18.508
And then he has what’s called the lizard brain, which is your survival mechanism.

00:23:18.888 –> 00:23:22.928
That’s kind of your brain stem, basal ganglia, the kind of things that give

00:23:22.928 –> 00:23:26.128
you that fight or flight or that kind of thing.

00:23:27.808 –> 00:23:32.188
So the way it works is the more complicated the brain, the quicker it shuts down direction.

00:23:32.628 –> 00:23:36.208
So the human brain, if we’re using this model, is by far the most complicated

00:23:36.208 –> 00:23:40.948
part. The neocortex takes a long form, doesn’t form until your mid to late 20s.

00:23:41.068 –> 00:23:44.988
So a lot of people don’t even have a fully formed brain when they’re making decisions.

00:23:45.628 –> 00:23:49.328
So honestly, anybody under 25, and I’m sure you’ve seen this,

00:23:49.368 –> 00:23:50.068
and I’m sure your listeners,

00:23:50.940 –> 00:23:54.420
that, you know, there’s a person like party animal, wild person,

00:23:54.520 –> 00:23:58.300
and all of a sudden they turn 27 and they’re like soccer parents and they’ve

00:23:58.300 –> 00:24:00.460
got a minivan. You’re like, what the fuck happened here?

00:24:00.800 –> 00:24:04.040
And it’s like, oh, it’s because their brain finished developing.

00:24:04.200 –> 00:24:07.920
There’s a bunch of theories on why the neocortex takes long to develop.

00:24:08.240 –> 00:24:13.180
My favorite theory comes from Robert Pulsky. And his theory is that because

00:24:13.180 –> 00:24:17.500
the later something develops in your body, the less it is affected by genetics.

00:24:17.800 –> 00:24:21.540
So it was important to have your human neocortex develop late,

00:24:21.760 –> 00:24:24.260
because then your genetics would affect it, your environment would.

00:24:24.540 –> 00:24:28.200
And also, we need risk takers as human beings. We need people to be like,

00:24:28.320 –> 00:24:29.760
what’s on the other side of that water?

00:24:30.100 –> 00:24:34.380
Nobody in 40 is like, let’s jump on a boat and discover the new world. That’s not happening.

00:24:34.780 –> 00:24:39.780
So we need to have those people doing that. So anyways, that’s a little bit about the brain.

00:24:39.960 –> 00:24:44.180
So going back to the triumvirate, human, monkey, lizard, we’ll just use Miller’s

00:24:44.180 –> 00:24:46.780
model for it, or whoever creates the model of this place.

00:24:47.340 –> 00:24:50.700
The human brain shuts down very quickly under stress. it’s not designed for

00:24:50.700 –> 00:24:51.880
it. The human brain is calm.

00:24:52.020 –> 00:24:55.480
That’s why meditation, so forth. That’s why learning how to perform under stress, so forth.

00:24:55.760 –> 00:24:58.200
Keep access to your human problem solving.

00:24:58.700 –> 00:25:01.920
What does kick in really quickly is your tribal slash monkey brain.

00:25:02.060 –> 00:25:06.060
And it’s very good at tricking the human brain into thinking that it works for

00:25:06.060 –> 00:25:09.480
the human brain, but in fact, your human brain works for your, right?

00:25:09.760 –> 00:25:13.040
So you’ve probably heard the saying, fact over feelings.

00:25:13.300 –> 00:25:17.860
I don’t like that saying because people almost always choose feelings over facts, right?

00:25:18.120 –> 00:25:21.620
And facts and feelings, that should be the thing, not facts or feelings,

00:25:21.860 –> 00:25:25.760
because people naturally level towards their feelings.

00:25:26.040 –> 00:25:29.920
So when you’re in your feelings, you are not in your critical thinker.

00:25:30.040 –> 00:25:33.120
So that’s the most important thing to understand, right?

00:25:33.400 –> 00:25:36.200
It’s like what people say, like, when you’re in love, you’re stupid. Absolutely.

00:25:36.480 –> 00:25:40.240
The amount of pretty ladies that have wrecked my life, Jim, it’s great.

00:25:40.240 –> 00:25:45.420
The amount of pretty ladies that have just come in and destroyed my life is insane.

00:25:45.640 –> 00:25:48.400
Because you’re making good, sound decisions for yourself, right?

00:25:49.220 –> 00:25:53.600
Exactly. Obviously, my emotions are the best way to make my critical life.

00:25:54.060 –> 00:26:00.020
So the first indicator that we want people to understand is that if you’re feeling

00:26:00.020 –> 00:26:04.000
an emotion about somebody, you’re not in your critical thinking break. And it’s any emotion.

00:26:04.300 –> 00:26:09.060
It’s love. It’s hate. It’s anger. It’s boredom. It’s whatever. Yeah.

00:26:09.640 –> 00:26:14.040
So example, example in my life, me and my sister. So nobody can get under my skin like my sister.

00:26:14.340 –> 00:26:17.560
My sister looks nothing like me. In fact, I just you might have seen it.

00:26:17.680 –> 00:26:20.100
I put up a post with me and her in it. And I have like a hover hand.

00:26:20.300 –> 00:26:23.360
Yeah. And everybody’s like, oh, a nice hover hand. You can still pull it like

00:26:23.360 –> 00:26:26.540
that is my biological sister. You bunch of perverts.

00:26:26.760 –> 00:26:29.680
But we look nothing. We look nothing alike. Like, seriously,

00:26:29.840 –> 00:26:34.280
nothing like you would never know we were related unless you talk to us. She’s deep to act very.

00:26:34.853 –> 00:26:40.433
Yeah. So nobody can get under my skin like her. She knows your buttons and switches. Yes.

00:26:41.013 –> 00:26:45.193
And it’s so good that even when she calls me, I feel emotions automatically.

00:26:46.493 –> 00:26:52.373
Right. So it’s very hard for me to critically think around her and I become

00:26:52.373 –> 00:26:53.813
a worse version of myself.

00:26:54.373 –> 00:26:56.533
So she’ll number one. Does she know this?

00:26:57.833 –> 00:27:02.753
Oh, she absolutely knows. No way. There’s no way like everybody,

00:27:02.953 –> 00:27:07.073
her husband, my fiance, my daughter, her kids are like, here they go.

00:27:07.213 –> 00:27:09.533
Everybody knows we’re going to get into a fight.

00:27:09.813 –> 00:27:14.173
And I teach de-escalation for a living and I still can’t get past this.

00:27:14.533 –> 00:27:18.693
So anytime you feel emotions coming up, that’s a good sign you’re not in your

00:27:18.693 –> 00:27:20.493
critical thinking brain. You’re going to think you are.

00:27:20.653 –> 00:27:26.053
That’s the trick. That’s the trick of the monkey brain. So that really is the defining moment.

00:27:26.053 –> 00:27:30.513
If you have any emotion at all around an individual, you know,

00:27:30.633 –> 00:27:35.093
around a group, an individual doesn’t matter or about a situation that,

00:27:35.093 –> 00:27:40.953
you know, human brain is switched off and you’re now at least dabbling on the edge of monkey brain.

00:27:42.133 –> 00:27:44.693
Yeah, you’re not thinking you’re not thinking as critically as you could.

00:27:44.853 –> 00:27:46.973
And I’m sure all of the experiences, right?

00:27:47.193 –> 00:27:50.113
Calm down. You’re like, why did I say that? That’s me.

00:27:50.273 –> 00:27:52.973
Every time after a hangout like this, that’s exactly me. Right.

00:27:53.053 –> 00:27:55.913
Like, why did I get so mad? like what

00:27:55.913 –> 00:27:59.073
is like and then you learn to de-escalate that’s right you learn about yourself

00:27:59.073 –> 00:28:02.113
you learn the markers and it’s better now for

00:28:02.113 –> 00:28:05.113
me and her but like it’s still not great yeah

00:28:05.113 –> 00:28:08.073
and everybody else though the lessons i learned in that

00:28:08.073 –> 00:28:11.853
situation have trickled down to the rest of my life and it’s made it easy so

00:28:11.853 –> 00:28:15.453
i want people to understand that your de-escalation is never going to be perfect

00:28:15.453 –> 00:28:19.293
it’s always going to be kind of a moving goalpost and especially the closer

00:28:19.293 –> 00:28:23.493
you are to a person the more quickly you’re going to get into that month’s brain

00:28:23.493 –> 00:28:25.253
the more quickly you’re going they get to a fight.

00:28:25.433 –> 00:28:28.133
That’s why Thanksgiving dinners are always such a problem for people, right?

00:28:28.213 –> 00:28:31.393
That’s like a trope, right? Oh, I got to go for Thanksgiving and talk to Uncle

00:28:31.393 –> 00:28:33.973
Blah about XYZ topic I don’t agree with.

00:28:34.613 –> 00:28:38.213
That’s why, because you’re already in your emotional state before you even get there.

00:28:38.413 –> 00:28:41.973
You’re prepped for a fight when you walk in. If you’re prepped for a fight and

00:28:41.973 –> 00:28:44.073
looking for a fight, there’s no way there’s not going to be a fight.

00:28:44.633 –> 00:28:49.753
So if you can learn to calm yourself, find a practice, whether it’s dead meditation

00:28:49.753 –> 00:28:53.353
or going for a run or lifting weights or screaming into your pillow. I don’t care.

00:28:53.793 –> 00:28:57.453
Whatever it is that’s going to get you out of that emotional pain back into

00:28:57.453 –> 00:29:02.113
your thinking brain, you’d be surprised how much your relationships improve

00:29:02.113 –> 00:29:06.833
when we’re talking about de-escalation in the long term as opposed to short-term de-escalation.

00:29:07.173 –> 00:29:09.953
You know, a guy gets in your face because of a road bridge.

00:29:10.813 –> 00:29:12.773
Yeah. And, you know.

00:29:13.833 –> 00:29:18.853
To to to follow up on that point, you know, that might look like something is

00:29:18.853 –> 00:29:21.993
avoiding Thanksgiving dinner with the family a year.

00:29:22.273 –> 00:29:25.193
Right. Because last year it was so heated or whatever.

00:29:25.473 –> 00:29:29.393
It might not be that extreme. It might mean, OK, we’re going to go.

00:29:29.633 –> 00:29:32.213
Let’s say you have a significant other. OK, we’re going to go.

00:29:32.493 –> 00:29:37.213
But you be my clock watcher and we’re going to leave in 45 minutes.

00:29:37.393 –> 00:29:40.173
We’re not going to hang out here all afternoon and give everything.

00:29:40.173 –> 00:29:46.333
Or it might mean that we cut the phone conversation short right before it escalates,

00:29:46.613 –> 00:29:48.353
you know, into something it doesn’t need to.

00:29:48.573 –> 00:29:51.993
Or it might mean, you know, if you do get in at Thanksgiving,

00:29:51.993 –> 00:29:55.833
you get up from the table and take a walk around the block, come back and you’re

00:29:55.833 –> 00:29:57.533
fine again, right? Those things.

00:29:57.733 –> 00:30:01.713
But to the point we’re trying to make here is recognizing when that,

00:30:01.873 –> 00:30:05.473
if you want to use that analogy, when the monkey brain is coming to play.

00:30:05.613 –> 00:30:10.393
And that just means keeping check on, do I feel any emotion right now? it all.

00:30:10.533 –> 00:30:14.473
And if I do, I need to be on top of that sooner than later.

00:30:15.473 –> 00:30:19.573
Exactly. I think there’s a, there’s a stoic practice. I’m thinking of stoic practice.

00:30:20.553 –> 00:30:24.993
There’s a stoic practice that, uh, that’s the first, one of the first practices,

00:30:25.173 –> 00:30:29.793
so is learning what you can control, what you can’t control and what you can influence.

00:30:30.453 –> 00:30:33.293
This is, this is the explanation to be in a nutshell, right?

00:30:33.433 –> 00:30:35.813
I know I control myself and my emotions. I do.

00:30:36.133 –> 00:30:40.853
I know I can’t control somebody else and what their reactions are to I didn’t

00:30:40.853 –> 00:30:43.433
want, but I might be able to influence them.

00:30:43.553 –> 00:30:46.493
So there’s these three pillars, what I can control, what I can’t control,

00:30:46.633 –> 00:30:47.533
and what I can influence.

00:30:47.953 –> 00:30:50.933
And de-escalation exists in the what I can influence.

00:30:51.233 –> 00:30:55.093
But you cannot influence anything if you can’t first control yourself.

00:30:55.213 –> 00:30:58.033
You just can’t do it. It’s almost impossible.

00:30:58.313 –> 00:31:03.773
I’m sure it’s been done, but more by accident than by desire. Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:04.493 –> 00:31:08.913
Totally get it. Talking about physical, right? Like we’re, you know,

00:31:09.013 –> 00:31:14.333
we’re all down in the cerebral aspects of self-defense and even personal,

00:31:14.553 –> 00:31:17.353
you know, your personal space like we were talking about.

00:31:17.913 –> 00:31:22.573
Talk about body language in a de-escalation situation.

00:31:23.733 –> 00:31:27.553
What do we need to be looking out for there? What do we need to be making sure

00:31:27.553 –> 00:31:31.393
we’re doing or not doing in a de-escalation situation?

00:31:31.973 –> 00:31:35.293
It’s a great question. so uh when i teach so there’s

00:31:35.293 –> 00:31:38.353
because i’m primarily a self-defense instructor right so

00:31:38.353 –> 00:31:42.193
i’m not teaching like boxing guards so much but we can learn a lot from sport

00:31:42.193 –> 00:31:46.933
based stuff when we are looking at creating distance any kind of time it’s a

00:31:46.933 –> 00:31:51.713
match but sport has a pretty good aspect though so i like to teach different

00:31:51.713 –> 00:31:55.393
like kind of ready positions that don’t look like ready positions very common

00:31:55.393 –> 00:31:57.093
so i have three that i like,

00:31:57.981 –> 00:32:02.501
the salesman, the thinker, and the chief. And I use each of those positions

00:32:02.501 –> 00:32:04.801
for different stages of the encounter.

00:32:05.061 –> 00:32:08.281
So the standard self-defense position where people put their hands up in front

00:32:08.281 –> 00:32:11.801
of somebody, and they call it a passive stance.

00:32:12.161 –> 00:32:16.661
In my experience, that stance has not seen as passive because the hands are close to the eye.

00:32:17.141 –> 00:32:20.921
So one of the first things you want to understand is that most of us get our

00:32:20.921 –> 00:32:21.941
information through our eyes.

00:32:22.141 –> 00:32:25.761
So if you’re putting something in the vision of somebody that is annoyed,

00:32:25.981 –> 00:32:29.301
they’re going to get more annoyed. because they think you’re not listening,

00:32:29.481 –> 00:32:32.961
they think you’re not looking at them, or they see you’re putting up a defensive

00:32:32.961 –> 00:32:35.621
structure and they call you on it, right? Yeah.

00:32:35.901 –> 00:32:38.921
And I’m not trying to pick up people that use the path of stats.

00:32:39.081 –> 00:32:41.401
I don’t like it. You’ve taken my course. I talk in the course,

00:32:41.501 –> 00:32:43.361
but why I don’t like it? Because it’s static.

00:32:44.401 –> 00:32:49.501
It’s multiple tacticals. Yeah. Or 40% of the time. So one of the biggest issues

00:32:49.501 –> 00:32:51.861
I take with that is people putting their hands in front of somebody’s face.

00:32:52.621 –> 00:32:55.861
Strategically, it’s a good position if you think they’re going to bite you.

00:32:55.961 –> 00:33:00.361
But if you’re looking to de-escalate, Putting any tool or weapon in the field

00:33:00.361 –> 00:33:03.401
of vision is going to raise their stress level, not drop it.

00:33:03.781 –> 00:33:08.261
So I like to keep my hands still in the workspace, still in front of me,

00:33:08.381 –> 00:33:13.861
but a lot slower than a lot of instructors advise because my goal is to try

00:33:13.861 –> 00:33:15.001
to calm this person down.

00:33:15.281 –> 00:33:19.161
You can’t calm this person down when you’re like, get back, get back. That’s not right.

00:33:19.421 –> 00:33:23.961
There’s a place for it. Don’t get me wrong. But that’s not a de-escalation strategy.

00:33:24.441 –> 00:33:29.621
That’s a time-based management strategy. Yep, and it’s getting close to go at that point, yeah.

00:33:30.761 –> 00:33:34.441
Exactly, but people use that as the default, and this is why they’re having

00:33:34.441 –> 00:33:37.661
trouble de-escalating, right? It’s the same thing we said verbally.

00:33:37.941 –> 00:33:40.681
If I’m yelling, calm down, that’s not going to work.

00:33:40.781 –> 00:33:43.721
If I’m standing in a Muay Thai stance saying, like, calm down,

00:33:44.161 –> 00:33:46.741
what I’m saying and what I’m doing aren’t tracking.

00:33:46.981 –> 00:33:51.721
And the body language and the tone cadence of the voice, our pitch volume of

00:33:51.721 –> 00:33:56.881
the voice are more important than what you’re saying. And this is a pet peeve

00:33:56.881 –> 00:33:58.061
of mine. It really bothers me.

00:33:58.201 –> 00:34:01.721
Because I see a lot of videos. A lot of people send me a lot of videos.

00:34:02.201 –> 00:34:05.821
And I see people in the stands with their fingers splayed, which is good for

00:34:05.821 –> 00:34:09.261
biomechanics, with the eyes like, back up, back up, back up.

00:34:09.401 –> 00:34:14.641
And then if they get agitated, if they get agitated, they’re definitely going to get agitated. Yeah.

00:34:14.861 –> 00:34:17.481
Screaming at them with your fingers near their eyeballs.

00:34:17.821 –> 00:34:20.141
You are front-loading this.

00:34:20.641 –> 00:34:27.761
You’re front-loading it assault. And a lot of systems hide their combative system

00:34:27.761 –> 00:34:31.741
in a self-defense model by being like, this is your passive stance.

00:34:32.181 –> 00:34:36.041
But the passive stance is set up to mess that person up, right?

00:34:36.301 –> 00:34:39.061
It’s not set up to actually strategically get to it.

00:34:39.161 –> 00:34:42.621
So for me, I like to keep the hands a little bit closer to my body,

00:34:42.821 –> 00:34:44.421
not actually sound if they’re going to fight.

00:34:44.741 –> 00:34:49.541
I like to speak with my hands below the eye level. with your hands and moving

00:34:49.541 –> 00:34:54.381
them is very good because the more you move your hands the harder it is for them to load up the.

00:34:55.019 –> 00:34:58.879
Because if you stand in one spot, the person can do the cancellation to punch you.

00:34:59.019 –> 00:35:02.419
If you’re constantly shifting your positions harder for them to ambush the sucker

00:35:02.419 –> 00:35:07.259
punch you, then when you’re doing this, you need to really make sure your voice

00:35:07.259 –> 00:35:09.699
is in a position. Unless you’re very talented.

00:35:09.859 –> 00:35:12.119
Like, I’m a loud, very energetic person.

00:35:13.919 –> 00:35:18.959
I can weaponize that to be athlete, but maybe somebody else can’t.

00:35:19.079 –> 00:35:22.059
So knowing yourself is very good. example i had

00:35:22.059 –> 00:35:24.959
a person on one of my shows and she was talking about

00:35:24.959 –> 00:35:27.919
de-escalating and she said she used her mom voice so her

00:35:27.919 –> 00:35:30.879
her her mom voice was

00:35:30.879 –> 00:35:35.219
a very good de-escalation tool me using a mom voice is not going to be a good

00:35:35.219 –> 00:35:39.739
that’s not going to work so well yeah so right so we need to pay attention to

00:35:39.739 –> 00:35:43.599
our body language we also need to pay attention to how we prevent right like

00:35:43.599 –> 00:35:47.539
i have this thing in my head where i think everybody’s the same height as me

00:35:47.539 –> 00:35:49.159
i don’t know why i’m very bad at it.

00:35:49.579 –> 00:35:51.699
And then I see myself in a picture with somebody and I’m like,

00:35:51.879 –> 00:35:56.039
I could eat that person. Jeez. And in my head when we talked, we were the same height.

00:35:57.319 –> 00:36:01.739
So I have to be aware of my physical presence. I have to be aware that I’m loud,

00:36:01.819 –> 00:36:05.239
especially when I get excited or energetic. I might fall these phrases.

00:36:05.519 –> 00:36:09.699
So I need to be aware of these things. So this is a de-escalation of yourself.

00:36:09.919 –> 00:36:14.759
Your position, what you’re doing with your body has to match the words that you’re saying.

00:36:14.979 –> 00:36:17.819
So if you’re aggressively positioned, you’re telling somebody to calm down,

00:36:17.959 –> 00:36:20.839
they’re not listening to your words or listening to what you’re seeing,

00:36:20.979 –> 00:36:22.579
what you’re doing, taking that information.

00:36:22.979 –> 00:36:26.959
So I like to kind of cross my arms over, not interlock.

00:36:27.139 –> 00:36:31.499
I use what I call the TV position or I put my hand on my chin and the finger I call it.

00:36:31.739 –> 00:36:35.319
So it looks like I’m listening and I’m also actually listening,

00:36:35.319 –> 00:36:39.699
but you have to show them that everything you do has to match.

00:36:39.859 –> 00:36:43.399
You can’t be disjointed because that’s going to cause confusion.

00:36:43.739 –> 00:36:47.479
And again, especially, I talked about chemicals before, if there’s chemicals

00:36:47.479 –> 00:36:48.639
in their system and they’re just

00:36:48.819 –> 00:36:51.539
spiking up cocaine is a great example of it yeah i’ve dealt

00:36:51.539 –> 00:36:54.399
with lots of people on cocaine it’s a very popular drug

00:36:54.399 –> 00:36:57.319
here for the oil worker culture that i live in yeah

00:36:57.319 –> 00:37:00.879
right because they need to stay up late so cocaine is super common

00:37:00.879 –> 00:37:05.819
here it’s a hell of a drug it’s a hell it works it works if you’re working 40-hour

00:37:05.819 –> 00:37:11.599
shifts and you want to stay thin that’s right but when well when uh when i’m

00:37:11.599 –> 00:37:15.039
dealing with these people like any kind of agitation is going to set them off

00:37:15.039 –> 00:37:19.079
so this is the thing with de-escalation. People think de-escalation is like.

00:37:19.848 –> 00:37:24.468
Right. Like, well, I put my hands up in a passive position and I told them that

00:37:24.468 –> 00:37:26.988
I didn’t want to fight and then they didn’t listen.

00:37:27.388 –> 00:37:31.528
And I did this other thing and I obviously had to stomp on their head 45 times.

00:37:31.848 –> 00:37:34.628
Right. That’s not de-escalation. That wasn’t de-escalation. That’s the violence.

00:37:35.028 –> 00:37:39.108
Right. Yeah. This is the step towards getting into a fight. And that’s what

00:37:39.108 –> 00:37:39.908
de-escalation is taught.

00:37:40.428 –> 00:37:44.648
It’s not taught that de-escalation often that de-escalation should be the win.

00:37:44.648 –> 00:37:47.548
It’s taught as something you try before you

00:37:47.548 –> 00:37:50.208
get to use your cool moves that you just got taught in

00:37:50.208 –> 00:37:53.268
class that thinking has to go away the escalation

00:37:53.268 –> 00:37:56.048
is the win that’s what you want you need to

00:37:56.048 –> 00:37:59.708
people need to reframe a win from physically

00:37:59.708 –> 00:38:05.008
dominating somebody to being able to make somebody not try to hurt you that’s

00:38:05.008 –> 00:38:09.728
the win if you can if whatever you do make that person not do what they wanted

00:38:09.728 –> 00:38:16.328
to do that’s a win so whether it’s de-escalation through pretending to be scared, right?

00:38:16.668 –> 00:38:19.648
So, a story I like to share all the time, there was a real estate agent here

00:38:19.648 –> 00:38:22.328
in Canada. She was attacked in a home she was showing.

00:38:22.628 –> 00:38:25.368
She had her hands grabbed and she was pushed over a sink.

00:38:25.848 –> 00:38:28.648
I don’t care what martial arts system you take. If a person,

00:38:28.808 –> 00:38:32.028
this guy had 150 pounds on her, if a person’s 150 pounds on you,

00:38:32.088 –> 00:38:35.888
has both of your wrists and it takes a center of gravity, there’s no ninja move at it. Yeah.

00:38:36.068 –> 00:38:40.808
Size does matter, contrary to some people’s beliefs. Exactly.

00:38:41.408 –> 00:38:44.648
100% agree. Size and strength absolutely matter. Ask Eddie.

00:38:45.128 –> 00:38:47.868
They like to put up videos about Jiu-Jitsu taking up bodybuilders.

00:38:48.168 –> 00:38:52.408
But that’s the experience most Jiu-Jitsu people have when they’re first working with a bodybuilder.

00:38:52.488 –> 00:38:54.568
Most people see the bed, so we need a higher level. Yeah.

00:38:55.128 –> 00:38:59.328
So she de-escalated by saying, wouldn’t this be more comfortable in the bedroom?

00:39:00.115 –> 00:39:04.115
He said, sure. He then let her go and stood up. Then she escalated again,

00:39:04.375 –> 00:39:05.615
which is also an important thing to know.

00:39:05.995 –> 00:39:10.895
She slammed his head into the wall and the bathroom got the hell out of the house. Well done.

00:39:11.375 –> 00:39:15.135
De-escalation should be the goal, but you should also be able to re-escalate.

00:39:15.315 –> 00:39:18.455
So de-escalation could be you’re having a conversation with somebody.

00:39:18.955 –> 00:39:25.315
Maybe you have best authority, law enforcement, security. It’s your house. It’s your best friend.

00:39:26.075 –> 00:39:28.775
Then you can de-escalate from point authority equal to equal.

00:39:29.335 –> 00:39:32.515
But de-escalation just means making sure the violence that was going to happen

00:39:32.515 –> 00:39:34.775
didn’t happen. That can be accomplished in many places.

00:39:35.115 –> 00:39:38.275
There’s so many ways to win at this that don’t have to go physical.

00:39:38.755 –> 00:39:44.535
And that’s one of the important parts of it. So physically for you, you need to…

00:39:45.275 –> 00:39:49.395
It’s an integrated strategy. So for the physical stuff, don’t do anything that’s

00:39:49.395 –> 00:39:50.675
contrary to what you’re trying to say.

00:39:50.895 –> 00:39:53.815
So keep a defensive position. Keep your hands near your chest,

00:39:53.975 –> 00:39:57.995
in between your head and your hips. but don’t look like you’re creating a sniper

00:39:57.995 –> 00:40:01.195
position or whatever people are phrasing it as. Trojan horse,

00:40:01.215 –> 00:40:02.295
I think, is also one of them, right?

00:40:02.475 –> 00:40:07.055
That’s a good analogy, and I like it, but if it’s a Trojan horse,

00:40:07.115 –> 00:40:08.375
they shouldn’t know it’s going to be an attack.

00:40:08.595 –> 00:40:13.175
So make sure you’re not fingers in the eye lie. Make sure you’re not too close and give the space.

00:40:13.455 –> 00:40:17.035
The other part of the escalation that’s really important is active listening.

00:40:17.915 –> 00:40:22.635
Most of the time, in my experience, why people get extremely violent is they

00:40:22.635 –> 00:40:23.995
believe that people aren’t…

00:40:25.637 –> 00:40:28.837
Especially if they have drugs in their system and they think you’re not listening

00:40:28.837 –> 00:40:31.957
because of the drugs, then it gets very hard.

00:40:32.057 –> 00:40:33.617
And if you’re not listening to them because they’re on drugs,

00:40:33.697 –> 00:40:34.897
that’s going to be a problem, right?

00:40:35.097 –> 00:40:40.577
You have a very, I think culturally, we have a very myopic view of what drugs.

00:40:40.837 –> 00:40:44.297
And a lot of people think like drugs change people and it changes some people.

00:40:44.417 –> 00:40:49.057
People really think addictive personalities. But I think straight edge people

00:40:49.057 –> 00:40:54.157
would be shocked to know how many people recreationally use chemicals and live

00:40:54.157 –> 00:40:58.217
a fully normal life outside of it. It’s like having a couple of drinks on the weekend. Sure.

00:40:58.617 –> 00:41:03.137
So if you catch a person on whatever substance, some kind of stimulus,

00:41:03.317 –> 00:41:04.997
usually that’s the problem. Stimulant changes the problem.

00:41:05.317 –> 00:41:08.257
One of my favorite lines that I heard when I was a pastor is,

00:41:08.357 –> 00:41:11.457
you know, if you get three drunk people, they’re going to start a fight.

00:41:11.597 –> 00:41:13.437
If you get three stone people, they’re going to start a band.

00:41:13.437 –> 00:41:18.757
So any kind of like weed right like any kind of and eat a lot of Cheetos,

00:41:20.057 –> 00:41:22.937
yeah exactly exactly honestly my career

00:41:22.937 –> 00:41:27.337
I would deal with a hundred potheads over one drunk like in a row potheads are

00:41:27.337 –> 00:41:32.517
just annoying yeah right but it’s like you gotta go oh come right that’s the

00:41:32.517 –> 00:41:37.577
whole thing and for drunk to get aggressive so any kind of place so your amphetamine

00:41:37.577 –> 00:41:40.937
those are the really dangerous ones alcohol you throw to the press.

00:41:42.537 –> 00:41:46.937
People will get angry and you’ll hear that when we’re talking about we’ll talk

00:41:46.937 –> 00:41:49.917
about people being sober in a second but when you hear that, you’re like,

00:41:50.177 –> 00:41:53.337
oh you’re just not listening because I’m drunk or because I’m dead or because

00:41:53.337 –> 00:41:56.917
I’m fat and if you address that, that’s not the issue no, no,

00:41:56.977 –> 00:41:59.677
I am listening to you, it doesn’t matter that you’re drunk, maybe I’m having

00:41:59.677 –> 00:42:02.997
more trouble but you can explain yourself, that’d be great but if you can really

00:42:02.997 –> 00:42:04.377
show that you’re trying to help,

00:42:05.157 –> 00:42:10.017
that’s going to be the Richard Dimitri, that’s one of his things that I take it, right, is,

00:42:10.711 –> 00:42:14.591
is this person just a good person having a bad day or is this actually a present?

00:42:15.031 –> 00:42:18.891
Yeah. And in a lot of situations, it’s just a good person having a bad day,

00:42:19.051 –> 00:42:20.591
right? Like what’s the bank?

00:42:20.771 –> 00:42:24.851
You’re overdrawn. You don’t have gas in your car. You’re driving your spouse,

00:42:24.991 –> 00:42:26.111
your partner is leaving you.

00:42:26.351 –> 00:42:28.631
Your kids don’t respect you. You’re not where you’re at at work.

00:42:28.711 –> 00:42:29.931
And then somebody cuts you off in traffic.

00:42:30.311 –> 00:42:34.671
Yeah. And that’s it, right? That’s the snap. And then they become aggressive.

00:42:34.851 –> 00:42:36.291
This isn’t a, this isn’t a villain.

00:42:36.551 –> 00:42:40.731
This isn’t, you know, better to be judged by 12 and carry by. situation.

00:42:41.231 –> 00:42:45.951
This is just somebody who snaps. You’re having a bad time. And that’s most of

00:42:45.951 –> 00:42:48.051
the escalation of somebody having a bad day.

00:42:48.491 –> 00:42:52.951
You can listen, actively listen, and show them through your voice,

00:42:53.171 –> 00:42:56.571
through your body language, that you’re actually trying to solve their problem.

00:42:57.031 –> 00:43:01.411
You’ll find the escalation happens very, very quickly. When somebody feels they’re

00:43:01.411 –> 00:43:04.291
not being heard or they’re being disrespected, that’s safe.

00:43:05.131 –> 00:43:09.471
Yeah. And I think that’s why, you know, at least a couple of techniques from

00:43:09.471 –> 00:43:15.611
active listening practices is key for de-escalation, one of which is, you know,

00:43:16.211 –> 00:43:20.051
letting them know you’ve heard what they’re saying or trying to say to you if

00:43:20.051 –> 00:43:24.631
they’re drunk, right, by repeating back to them key words that you’ve heard

00:43:24.631 –> 00:43:28.991
them say, right, to kind of get them agreeing with you and on your side.

00:43:29.351 –> 00:43:34.971
And, you know, another one is speaking in simple sentences, Right.

00:43:35.151 –> 00:43:38.751
Like, don’t get on a soapbox and don’t pontificate and don’t use,

00:43:38.771 –> 00:43:40.991
you know, 12th grade vocabulary.

00:43:41.191 –> 00:43:44.811
Keep it keep it like the newspapers, you know, fifth grade vocabulary.

00:43:45.011 –> 00:43:45.611
You know what I’m saying?

00:43:46.031 –> 00:43:51.091
Keep it simple and short. And, you know, talking about the drugs and the alcohol,

00:43:51.431 –> 00:43:56.551
there’s another reason to keep those comments and sentences or questions short

00:43:56.551 –> 00:44:00.031
and simple is because you may be dealing with an individual that’s impaired

00:44:00.031 –> 00:44:04.671
and they’re not going to they’re not going to respond to or even understand

00:44:04.671 –> 00:44:07.791
what you’re trying to say if you don’t keep it simple. Right.

00:44:09.351 –> 00:44:12.731
I can’t agree more. And I just want to say, like, how important that state.

00:44:13.493 –> 00:44:16.153
Because that statement, which is keeping it simple and direct,

00:44:16.493 –> 00:44:20.153
is the key to any kind of verbal strategy.

00:44:20.373 –> 00:44:24.913
So whether we’re de-escalating or setting boundaries, you need to keep it short

00:44:24.913 –> 00:44:26.613
and simple. Don’t over-explain yourself.

00:44:26.853 –> 00:44:30.073
Just tell them what you need, tell them what you need from them,

00:44:30.193 –> 00:44:32.093
and that’s going to make the conversation feel better.

00:44:32.193 –> 00:44:35.053
I can’t tell you the amount of people I’ve de-escalated from like,

00:44:35.213 –> 00:44:39.053
I’m coming back to shoot up this bar to them like 20 minutes later crying on

00:44:39.053 –> 00:44:42.453
the curb because we just found out their wife had a miscarriage.

00:44:42.453 –> 00:44:47.053
Right and so this is the thing is we don’t know what people are going i think hoover says right,

00:44:47.693 –> 00:44:50.613
everybody’s fighting something yep right everybody is fighting

00:44:50.613 –> 00:44:55.293
something yep we don’t know what they’re going through so if you can if you

00:44:55.293 –> 00:44:58.793
can make sure that you’re de-escalating yourself if you can have empathy for

00:44:58.793 –> 00:45:02.333
the other person if you could if we can just stop seeing every person that’s

00:45:02.333 –> 00:45:07.153
aggressive as the bad guy versus the good guy if we can take that world there

00:45:07.153 –> 00:45:10.553
to out a bit a little bit, de-escalation becomes much simpler.

00:45:11.233 –> 00:45:17.653
Yeah, and I think another piece of that, and it’s something that I’ve worked

00:45:17.653 –> 00:45:21.433
on. I’m not going to say that I’m an expert at it because I’m far from it,

00:45:21.453 –> 00:45:22.673
but it’s something that I’ve worked on.

00:45:22.953 –> 00:45:28.193
I think another key piece of de-escalation which plays into this that we’re

00:45:28.193 –> 00:45:33.953
talking about is especially knowing that you never know what someone else is

00:45:33.953 –> 00:45:37.173
going through or dealing with until you walked a mile in their shoes, right?

00:45:37.173 –> 00:45:40.313
Whatever that saying is, you don’t know a man until they’ve walked a mile in

00:45:40.313 –> 00:45:43.593
their shoes, a person you don’t know until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes.

00:45:43.853 –> 00:45:50.933
I think the key piece that people need to understand is trying to have more

00:45:50.933 –> 00:45:54.853
or better empathy with the individual that you’re dealing with, right?

00:45:55.073 –> 00:45:57.853
And empathy is not the same thing as sympathy, right?

00:45:57.953 –> 00:46:02.273
Like the story you just told the guy, you know, you get him on the curb,

00:46:02.273 –> 00:46:05.993
he’s crying and he’s talking about how his wife just had a miscarriage, right?

00:46:06.473 –> 00:46:10.513
It’s very easy to find yourself sympathizing with that person,

00:46:10.773 –> 00:46:14.633
feeling sorry for that person. But in the context of de-escalation,

00:46:14.753 –> 00:46:20.073
what we’re talking about, that’s not appropriate at all. What we’re talking about is empathy.

00:46:20.253 –> 00:46:25.533
And as empathy is, I like to think that I coined the phrase, I doubt I did.

00:46:25.673 –> 00:46:30.473
But when I think of empathy, there’s a thing in the South, and I don’t think

00:46:30.473 –> 00:46:34.913
very many people have them anymore, except maybe some older folks still around.

00:46:35.093 –> 00:46:38.593
But in the South, there’s this thing you place in the middle of your dinner

00:46:38.593 –> 00:46:43.213
table, and it’s called a Lazy Susan. Are you familiar with a Lazy Susan?

00:46:44.092 –> 00:46:49.272
I am, yes. Okay. So you got basically a miniature table in the middle of your

00:46:49.272 –> 00:46:52.312
table that you put your condiments, your salt and pepper, whatever,

00:46:52.552 –> 00:46:55.432
or your vegetables that you’re serving.

00:46:55.552 –> 00:46:59.472
And when somebody wants something, you spin the table so that that object is

00:46:59.472 –> 00:47:01.912
on their side so they can more easily get to it.

00:47:01.972 –> 00:47:07.552
Just explain to our audience what it is. And so when it comes to empathy,

00:47:07.552 –> 00:47:12.572
I just tell myself all the time, you know, I try to spin the lazy Susan so I

00:47:12.572 –> 00:47:14.492
can see things from their angle. Right.

00:47:14.972 –> 00:47:20.312
Or see things how they’re seeing it. So that’s kind of the way I try to think

00:47:20.312 –> 00:47:24.972
of empathy is spinning the lazy Susan, even though that’s probably going to

00:47:24.972 –> 00:47:26.632
be abstract for most folks.

00:47:26.872 –> 00:47:31.372
But the goal is to try to better understand where that individual is coming

00:47:31.372 –> 00:47:34.132
from. And that goes a long way in de-escalation as well.

00:47:34.712 –> 00:47:38.152
I agree. I love that analogy. It’s a really good one. And I think the other

00:47:38.152 –> 00:47:41.332
thing that we each realize for de-escalating is, and this is,

00:47:41.432 –> 00:47:44.052
we got to get out of this us versus them kind of thought process,

00:47:44.272 –> 00:47:47.772
is you might not actually be this person’s enemy.

00:47:47.972 –> 00:47:50.952
You’re just the person engaging with them while they’re going through this.

00:47:50.952 –> 00:47:53.772
So if you cannot take this personal like when i

00:47:53.772 –> 00:47:56.612
learned it took me a while like this is not i don’t consider myself

00:47:56.612 –> 00:47:59.532
an expert in anything that i talk about a lot of this is just learned

00:47:59.532 –> 00:48:04.812
from me being dumb and making a whole bunch of mistakes but when i first learned

00:48:04.812 –> 00:48:10.392
about kind of like kind of fitting way susan said it it was a hard thing for

00:48:10.392 –> 00:48:14.532
me to understand that i wasn’t actually the problem like because we’re designed

00:48:14.532 –> 00:48:18.212
to take stuff first we’re designed to be like oh oh, it’s my fault.

00:48:18.432 –> 00:48:20.952
But if a guy’s yelling at me because he wants to get into a bar,

00:48:21.112 –> 00:48:22.032
it’s not a problem with me.

00:48:22.672 –> 00:48:27.772
I’m just the barrier to his actual goal. So if I can try to help them get to

00:48:27.772 –> 00:48:31.492
their goal, that’s going to be helpful. And it’s the same thing in your relationships, right?

00:48:31.912 –> 00:48:34.432
So I’ve had a couple of relationships and a divorce under my belt.

00:48:34.572 –> 00:48:35.692
So I’ve learned some lessons.

00:48:36.252 –> 00:48:40.352
And one of the lessons is realizing even when your partner’s mad at you,

00:48:40.492 –> 00:48:41.652
they might not be mad at you.

00:48:41.812 –> 00:48:44.472
And they’re most likely not mad at you to think they’re mad at you

00:48:44.472 –> 00:48:47.732
for right now it’s probably something you did forever

00:48:47.732 –> 00:48:50.812
ago like if if your partner snaps over something stupid

00:48:50.812 –> 00:48:53.752
and small like i can’t believe you put the the chips

00:48:53.752 –> 00:48:57.912
under the bread like they’re gonna get cracked you’re like whoa this is an overreaction

00:48:57.912 –> 00:49:02.032
right it’s probably not about the chips probably two weeks we forgot a birthday

00:49:02.032 –> 00:49:05.852
or something yeah they’re like it’s been stewing and this is a thing that snaps

00:49:05.852 –> 00:49:11.832
it’s starting to show itself yeah yeah exactly and that’s where i think a lot

00:49:11.832 –> 00:49:12.692
of these problems come from,

00:49:12.792 –> 00:49:16.872
and that’s why that’s a feature cause of a good person having a bad day is really important.

00:49:17.412 –> 00:49:24.392
You just might be experiencing their snap, and you might not even be the cause

00:49:24.392 –> 00:49:27.572
of it, but it might feel like you are because you don’t know their backstory, right?

00:49:27.852 –> 00:49:32.332
So if you can, so desolate yourself, then if you can make it not personal…

00:49:33.596 –> 00:49:37.196
Man, honestly, that’s like a life hack. You can learn to not take things personal.

00:49:38.896 –> 00:49:43.356
It’s so freeing. I don’t know how much you’re listening to me on social media,

00:49:43.416 –> 00:49:45.976
but everybody knows I love my haters.

00:49:46.176 –> 00:49:50.876
I love you. All you people that hate me, I love you. Feed me. It’s my favorite thing.

00:49:51.096 –> 00:49:54.576
Because you know what? I know I’m not for everybody. I’m not everybody’s cup

00:49:54.576 –> 00:49:55.916
of tea, and I’m okay with that.

00:49:56.256 –> 00:50:00.016
And once you learn that it doesn’t matter what people say and it’s not personal,

00:50:00.636 –> 00:50:03.436
everything becomes easier. You get your message out more clearly.

00:50:03.596 –> 00:50:07.696
And especially if there’s the estimation involved, you want to get your best shot more clearly.

00:50:07.896 –> 00:50:11.036
If you don’t care what they think about you and you’re just trying to solve

00:50:11.036 –> 00:50:15.696
a problem and you’re not in your emotions, you’re going to become the thug whisperer.

00:50:15.756 –> 00:50:18.436
You’re going to become the carjacker whisperer or whatever it is,

00:50:18.536 –> 00:50:20.596
right? Like you’re going to have that ability.

00:50:20.916 –> 00:50:28.256
Yeah, and a better stoic too, right? You know, can’t control anything outside your space.

00:50:28.876 –> 00:50:32.936
Yeah, I think, you know, that’s a great point. Try not to take it personal because

00:50:32.936 –> 00:50:36.196
it seldom, I mean, if you’re the one that they’re in the fight with,

00:50:36.336 –> 00:50:37.216
that’s a different story.

00:50:37.636 –> 00:50:41.796
And it could change to that if you’re not good at de-escalation or if you’re

00:50:41.796 –> 00:50:47.076
not really working to de-escalate, right? But you shouldn’t take it personally.

00:50:47.256 –> 00:50:50.496
And, you know, I struggle with that myself. You know, to your point,

00:50:50.636 –> 00:50:55.096
we’re all kind of hardwired to varying degrees to take things personally.

00:50:55.096 –> 00:50:57.116
We take offense to it very easily.

00:50:57.576 –> 00:51:02.896
And as a sidebar note, and I’m not sure how this ties into de-escalation offhand,

00:51:03.016 –> 00:51:08.396
but one that my buddy tells me all the time is learn not to have any expectations, right?

00:51:09.436 –> 00:51:15.136
Yep. That’s another big life lesson. I think that ties into exactly what I was

00:51:15.136 –> 00:51:17.656
saying before, which is don’t expect as though it’s going to end up in a fight.

00:51:18.156 –> 00:51:21.436
Don’t think that everything you’re doing is leading up to the eventual fight.

00:51:23.111 –> 00:51:26.871
And why I say this and why I’m so passionate about it is a lot of instructors

00:51:26.871 –> 00:51:28.851
like the brag about their fight records or whatever.

00:51:29.231 –> 00:51:34.911
I don’t. I’ve been in a few. If you do the math, I work full time at a bar where

00:51:34.911 –> 00:51:37.611
people got to fight twice a night for six months.

00:51:38.131 –> 00:51:41.011
So I’ve been in a couple of scraps, but again, with just drunk people,

00:51:41.091 –> 00:51:42.091
very small, sliver of violence.

00:51:43.211 –> 00:51:50.191
But oh my God, how quickly did my fight drop when I started to see last year?

00:51:50.211 –> 00:51:52.911
This isn’t about me. right and even if it was even they said it

00:51:52.911 –> 00:51:55.671
was about me like going back to the relationship sure it wasn’t about the

00:51:55.671 –> 00:51:58.551
event that’s happening right now it’s about something else that happened

00:51:58.551 –> 00:52:01.611
so if you can just be take it personal don’t

00:52:01.611 –> 00:52:04.871
take it personal rather yeah don’t take it personal don’t be in your emotions you

00:52:04.871 –> 00:52:07.831
can then sherlock holmes your way to finding out what the actual issue

00:52:07.831 –> 00:52:10.691
is and it’s probably an easy stop right it’s

00:52:10.691 –> 00:52:13.551
probably not as hard as you think it is it the only reason

00:52:13.551 –> 00:52:16.411
it gets hard is when we get in our own way we take it personal

00:52:16.411 –> 00:52:19.071
when we attach to most we have expectations when we

00:52:19.071 –> 00:52:21.871
think like well this how how dare they treat me like this you’re

00:52:21.871 –> 00:52:25.051
like well maybe they’re breaking your violating your boundary because

00:52:25.051 –> 00:52:28.831
something you did right so if you can calm yourself

00:52:28.831 –> 00:52:31.991
down and pay attention to the environment actively listen hear

00:52:31.991 –> 00:52:35.251
what they’re saying and like you said repeat back like i

00:52:35.251 –> 00:52:38.631
think you’re saying this like that kind of communication is

00:52:38.631 –> 00:52:41.791
so important like i said it took me three

00:52:41.791 –> 00:52:44.651
or four years of getting punched in the face shot at and stabbed all

00:52:44.651 –> 00:52:47.811
the crazy stuff that happened in my life to realize like nobody punches

00:52:47.811 –> 00:52:53.031
a smiling guy right so that and that that pivoted my entire thought process

00:52:53.031 –> 00:52:57.531
and life became much much easier you know i didn’t go to i didn’t go to work

00:52:57.531 –> 00:53:00.471
in a bar for a fight i wanted to go to work at a bar because girls sort of was

00:53:00.471 –> 00:53:04.351
right so like i wasn’t there for scrapping i was there to meet somebody and

00:53:04.351 –> 00:53:07.611
my life that shifted very quickly to being that happy guy was great.

00:53:08.660 –> 00:53:12.440
And, you know, I can’t help but think, Randy, that if you had been better at

00:53:12.440 –> 00:53:16.360
that time with de-escalation and active listening, that you could have avoided

00:53:16.360 –> 00:53:18.360
that whole fork incident. I’m just saying.

00:53:20.760 –> 00:53:25.300
A hundred percent I could have. So that was a third part of the de-escalation

00:53:25.300 –> 00:53:26.760
because I was going to hurt that person.

00:53:27.840 –> 00:53:32.500
So that’s another de-escalation right there is just taking the bad actors out

00:53:32.500 –> 00:53:36.580
of the fight, right? Also, my main, the major stabbing that I talked about a

00:53:36.580 –> 00:53:39.720
lot, that one could have been avoided, too, with active listening.

00:53:40.040 –> 00:53:41.620
I just wasn’t listening. I think I got fed up.

00:53:42.040 –> 00:53:46.860
And then it got to be pointy sharp. So, yeah, it’s crazy if you,

00:53:47.060 –> 00:53:49.340
we have to learn these lessons slowly.

00:53:49.560 –> 00:53:52.760
And I hope your listeners understand what we’re trying to do for ourselves,

00:53:52.880 –> 00:53:55.140
Jim, all the stuff we’re doing here. We’re trying to compress time.

00:53:55.420 –> 00:53:59.420
We’re trying to show you our mistakes or the mistakes of people on the show

00:53:59.420 –> 00:54:03.640
in order for you not to make those same mistakes. So you can compress the tides,

00:54:03.740 –> 00:54:07.740
get more steel quicker without having to learn the lessons through blood or whatever.

00:54:08.160 –> 00:54:13.280
Yeah, the hard way, right? And hopefully, you know, some younger folks will

00:54:13.280 –> 00:54:16.980
listen to this, the right college age, bar hopping age.

00:54:17.240 –> 00:54:23.020
Maybe some folks that are below 25 would really benefit from hearing this information

00:54:23.020 –> 00:54:27.760
and learning it a more easier, digestible manner than getting a fist put down

00:54:27.760 –> 00:54:29.540
their throat and learning the hard ways.

00:54:30.780 –> 00:54:33.720
You know and i think people are gonna have to learn that some people

00:54:33.720 –> 00:54:36.520
just have to learn some people need to get kicked in the throat

00:54:36.520 –> 00:54:39.220
to learn a lesson unfortunately you know

00:54:39.220 –> 00:54:43.600
and i i i think this and and

00:54:43.600 –> 00:54:48.060
you know i can speak for myself certainly whether

00:54:48.060 –> 00:54:51.380
it’s a personal relationship or a bar fight i think

00:54:51.380 –> 00:54:54.600
a key piece of de-escalation is the

00:54:54.600 –> 00:54:57.420
person that’s got the issues right had the bad

00:54:57.420 –> 00:55:01.360
day or is the most upset or is gunning for

00:55:01.360 –> 00:55:04.220
some sort of fight for some reason right i think

00:55:04.220 –> 00:55:07.200
a key piece of the de-escalation which ties into everything

00:55:07.200 –> 00:55:11.680
we’ve been talking about is that they just want to be heard and understand understood

00:55:11.680 –> 00:55:18.460
so anything you can do to make them feel that make them feel better about that

00:55:18.460 –> 00:55:22.480
the better off you’ll be exactly and that’s where that repeating stuff back

00:55:22.480 –> 00:55:26.800
comes in and that’s where the activity comes in like treat just like a problem to solve.

00:55:27.000 –> 00:55:31.200
Don’t treat this like a personal attack and you’re going to do a lot better. Yeah.

00:55:31.940 –> 00:55:35.800
Just real quick, I want to run down a list. This is definitely not original

00:55:35.800 –> 00:55:40.720
content, but I do want to go through some other tips when dealing,

00:55:41.140 –> 00:55:43.040
when trying to deescalate a situation.

00:55:43.420 –> 00:55:47.840
Again, it could be personal relationship or that bar fight, wherever,

00:55:48.120 –> 00:55:50.200
however it manifests itself, right?

00:55:50.500 –> 00:55:53.940
And as I go down this list, some of which we’ve already talked about,

00:55:54.040 –> 00:55:57.620
if anything really stands out that you want to comment on just cut me off and

00:55:57.620 –> 00:56:01.020
we’ll talk about it in no particular order.

00:56:02.560 –> 00:56:05.720
So when you’re working to de-escalate,

00:56:06.878 –> 00:56:12.338
situation, you want to avoid saying no. It’s kind of like hostage negotiations,

00:56:12.578 –> 00:56:14.098
right? You want to avoid saying no.

00:56:14.618 –> 00:56:18.618
You want to give the other person plenty of personal space because I’m sure

00:56:18.618 –> 00:56:20.638
you appreciate personal space as well.

00:56:21.318 –> 00:56:25.778
You want to stay calm, which is kind of an obvious one. You don’t want to call

00:56:25.778 –> 00:56:27.758
names. You want to avoid the whole name calling.

00:56:27.978 –> 00:56:30.378
You want to avoid verbal and physical threats.

00:56:31.598 –> 00:56:34.678
And, you know, like we’ve talked about, I think is, you know,

00:56:34.678 –> 00:56:36.898
practice active listening and empathy.

00:56:37.538 –> 00:56:42.098
Is there anything there that you think merits deeper dive or anything missed?

00:56:42.538 –> 00:56:47.418
I, I, uh, so let’s, how about we’ll go, I’m going to get to go through the list

00:56:47.418 –> 00:56:53.498
again, but I’d like to just kind of put the order of, uh, the order that I think

00:56:53.498 –> 00:56:55.878
the, the estimation goes through first for the listeners.

00:56:56.098 –> 00:56:59.758
I’ll go through that. And then I do have some points on the things that you said.

00:56:59.918 –> 00:57:04.498
So first thing you want to do, number one is contacting the situation.

00:57:04.678 –> 00:57:07.638
Going to dictate your response every situation is different

00:57:07.638 –> 00:57:11.338
it’s why like checklist mentality in

00:57:11.338 –> 00:57:14.378
self-defense bothers me it often gets people into fights or out

00:57:14.378 –> 00:57:17.098
of fights like i said people tend to be like oh we’re

00:57:17.098 –> 00:57:20.898
de-escalating but de-escalation eventually leads to jujitsu time whatever they’re

00:57:20.898 –> 00:57:25.718
doing yeah so number one is just that’s the first thing once you know what situation’s

00:57:25.718 –> 00:57:28.398
happening you need to take breaths you might have to remove yourself from the

00:57:28.398 –> 00:57:32.438
situation we did this with door staff right if the person that threw somebody

00:57:32.438 –> 00:57:35.558
out of the bar was not the person that told them they couldn’t come back in.

00:57:35.978 –> 00:57:39.658
So if I’m the guy that threw somebody out, then I would leave,

00:57:39.698 –> 00:57:43.558
and the person at the door, a new, fresh face, would then tell them they couldn’t

00:57:43.558 –> 00:57:47.378
come back in, because the person they had a problem with, me in this scenario, is gone.

00:57:47.638 –> 00:57:50.538
So they’re not mad at the person at the door, they’re mad at the person that’s

00:57:50.538 –> 00:57:53.698
gone. It’s much easier to be escalated if you have to do.

00:57:54.545 –> 00:57:57.385
You have to escalate yourself first or remove yourself from the situation that’s good.

00:57:58.185 –> 00:58:01.705
Once you’ve escalated yourself, you need to suss out, is this a good person

00:58:01.705 –> 00:58:03.885
after a bad day or is this actual predatory problem?

00:58:04.125 –> 00:58:07.225
The predatory problem, jump, skip steps, your doctor gets late,

00:58:07.765 –> 00:58:11.065
go and deal with that. Let’s assume it’s a good person having a bad day.

00:58:11.425 –> 00:58:14.205
Then we need to find out what the root of their problem is. You’re going to

00:58:14.205 –> 00:58:17.085
actively listen. You’re going to commiserate. You’re going to have empathy.

00:58:17.525 –> 00:58:20.485
And then you’re going to find a solution. Ideally, do the solution and then

00:58:20.485 –> 00:58:22.065
make sure that there’s no reprise.

00:58:22.225 –> 00:58:26.505
So make sure that everything has been done. So it’s almost like a customer service call.

00:58:26.865 –> 00:58:29.625
Hey, how’s it going? What’s your name? How do I call you?

00:58:29.825 –> 00:58:33.245
Here is your problem. At the end of the call, they’re like, have we solved all

00:58:33.245 –> 00:58:35.025
your problems? Have we solved your problems today?

00:58:35.965 –> 00:58:39.785
Exactly. That’s what we’re looking for. So that’s like the timeline.

00:58:40.745 –> 00:58:43.565
How satisfied overall are you with us?

00:58:45.765 –> 00:58:48.505
How satisfied were you with your escort out of the box?

00:58:49.565 –> 00:58:53.185
But it’s important because you want to make sure there isn’t any other underlying

00:58:53.185 –> 00:58:59.845
issues because most people’s default communication method is passive-aggressive, which sucks.

00:59:00.585 –> 00:59:05.005
So it’s more like maybe they’re like, oh yeah, everything is fine.

00:59:05.005 –> 00:59:07.145
You’re like, it doesn’t sound like it’s fine.

00:59:07.425 –> 00:59:09.905
Like, were you okay with your service call today?

00:59:10.285 –> 00:59:12.305
Like, is there any other issues we could help with today?

00:59:12.765 –> 00:59:15.925
That’s important. And there’s a reason why customer service people do that.

00:59:16.085 –> 00:59:20.545
And one of the biggest things I like to point out is the self-defense stuff

00:59:20.545 –> 00:59:23.585
isn’t that different than your regular encounters in life, right?

00:59:23.585 –> 00:59:26.105
Everybody likes to make martial arts something specific, like,

00:59:26.265 –> 00:59:27.505
oh, it’s different, right?

00:59:27.605 –> 00:59:31.205
I’m like, if you play some football, learn how to box and get a sales job,

00:59:31.385 –> 00:59:34.005
you’ve got like almost all the skills you need to do with the fence.

00:59:34.125 –> 00:59:36.685
Yeah, yeah. You have physical resiliency, you can throw your hands,

00:59:36.865 –> 00:59:40.465
and you know how to deal with people in a way where violence isn’t an option.

00:59:40.665 –> 00:59:44.125
It’s just not an option. And that’s the thing is people always assume that violence

00:59:44.125 –> 00:59:47.165
is an option. So what was the first point on your list again?

00:59:47.645 –> 00:59:50.545
Well, basically, it’s kind of like hostage negotiation.

00:59:51.105 –> 00:59:55.545
Saying no is a no-no, right? I just said it, but…

00:59:56.651 –> 01:00:01.591
I disagree a little bit. Okay. And I understand that it is like, sure.

01:00:02.411 –> 01:00:06.071
And again, for me, it’s always short-term versus long-term. And that we need

01:00:06.071 –> 01:00:07.031
to look at both things, right?

01:00:07.151 –> 01:00:10.671
Short-term being in the moment, long-term being maybe place shipping or whatever, right?

01:00:11.431 –> 01:00:15.931
In a bar, if I beat the crap out of somebody, the long-term result might be

01:00:15.931 –> 01:00:18.651
these immatis friends rolling up after shipping, picking the crap out of them.

01:00:18.891 –> 01:00:20.711
We have to make sure there isn’t reprisal.

01:00:21.451 –> 01:00:24.271
We have to make sure there is retribution. We have to make sure they have a

01:00:24.271 –> 01:00:25.431
good customer service call.

01:00:25.431 –> 01:00:28.351
So when when they’re i

01:00:28.351 –> 01:00:31.131
don’t think don’t say no because there’s going to be times you

01:00:31.131 –> 01:00:34.231
have to say no right like hey how’s it going i’d

01:00:34.231 –> 01:00:37.131
like to get back in the barn well you can’t get back in the barn right if i

01:00:37.131 –> 01:00:40.491
don’t say no then what’s the point of having it i can’t just let them do whatever

01:00:40.491 –> 01:00:46.171
they want so you are going to have to say no yeah say don’t right i would say

01:00:46.171 –> 01:00:50.751
don’t say no the things you don’t need to say no to and really show them why

01:00:50.751 –> 01:00:53.251
you’re saying no but a rule of don’t say no oh,

01:00:53.431 –> 01:00:57.451
that’s not a good rule for any kind of going through.

01:00:57.791 –> 01:01:02.411
So try to avoid the negative, I think, but there’s going to be a place where

01:01:02.411 –> 01:01:03.891
you have to hold fast on it, right?

01:01:04.091 –> 01:01:07.371
Like maybe you’re in a fight with your partner, and then they’re like,

01:01:07.551 –> 01:01:10.451
so your partner’s like, well, listen, in order to resolve this, no more this.

01:01:10.631 –> 01:01:13.891
You might have to listen to that though. So I don’t really agree with it because

01:01:13.891 –> 01:01:16.371
context is king. I get why it’s a tip.

01:01:17.015 –> 01:01:19.435
But I don’t like those quick tips. Yeah. What was the next one?

01:01:19.615 –> 01:01:23.255
No, I was just going to say to add on to that, where I come from and,

01:01:23.455 –> 01:01:28.895
you know, that’s on a lot of how to deescalate list, right? Avoid saying no.

01:01:29.215 –> 01:01:32.895
And so I included it on the list because, again, those things I’ve zipped through

01:01:32.895 –> 01:01:36.235
are not original content for you and I here just to discuss.

01:01:36.595 –> 01:01:43.395
But I do agree that there, and I’m one of those guys that might be on the receiving

01:01:43.395 –> 01:01:46.035
end of a hard no at different points, right?

01:01:47.475 –> 01:01:54.875
And what’s in my mind when I think about that is that there’s an art to saying no without saying no.

01:01:54.955 –> 01:01:57.475
And I think it’s applicable even in the bar scene.

01:01:57.655 –> 01:02:02.335
Not that that applies to everyone that’s listening to us, but I think that’s applicable.

01:02:02.635 –> 01:02:07.095
So, for example, the guy that you just escorted out of the bar, he wants to come back in.

01:02:07.375 –> 01:02:10.275
You could say, that ain’t happening tonight, pal.

01:02:10.455 –> 01:02:14.875
Go home, right? Or some calmer facsimile thereof. Or you could say,

01:02:15.015 –> 01:02:16.575
we’ll see you tomorrow night.

01:02:17.015 –> 01:02:21.355
Right. You’re not coming in now, but it’s OK if you come back tomorrow night.

01:02:21.955 –> 01:02:26.755
Right. So I think in terms of learning the art of saying no without saying no,

01:02:26.935 –> 01:02:32.395
and that’s a skill that I have not mastered yet either, but it’s something that I’m working on. Right.

01:02:33.195 –> 01:02:38.395
I think that’s and again, context is so important, because like the art of saying

01:02:38.395 –> 01:02:42.915
no, while not saying no, could be implied by some people as not a no.

01:02:43.375 –> 01:02:45.355
Is, to some people, a yes.

01:02:45.835 –> 01:02:50.735
The absence of a no is not a yes, but a lot of people take it that way.

01:02:50.875 –> 01:02:52.195
So, again, it depends on the context.

01:02:52.415 –> 01:02:56.775
It could be you’re de-escalating somebody from harming you, and you have to

01:02:56.775 –> 01:03:00.375
have that hard no. No but, right? No but is okay.

01:03:00.795 –> 01:03:03.775
And like you said, right? Guys, can I come back in? No, you can’t tonight,

01:03:03.955 –> 01:03:08.215
but please come back tomorrow. Here’s a coupon for 10% off your bill. Yep.

01:03:09.300 –> 01:03:16.000
But that no has to stand. I’m really big on clear communication.

01:03:16.400 –> 01:03:20.120
I think it’s important. So this one’s tricky. And this is a thing,

01:03:20.260 –> 01:03:22.300
listeners. All of this stuff is tricky.

01:03:22.800 –> 01:03:25.760
All of this stuff has subtlety and all of this stuff has context.

01:03:26.740 –> 01:03:29.720
So again, you need to know the situation you’re in. You need to know what tools

01:03:29.720 –> 01:03:30.660
you have available to you.

01:03:30.700 –> 01:03:33.620
You need to know how you’re seen and what threats you present to you.

01:03:33.660 –> 01:03:35.340
And then you can make your strategy from there.

01:03:35.660 –> 01:03:40.500
Yeah. And, you know, as someone is quoted infamously that we know it depends, right?

01:03:40.720 –> 01:03:45.760
Like there is no magic one cure all that fits for every situation that’s going

01:03:45.760 –> 01:03:47.020
to work every single time.

01:03:47.360 –> 01:03:51.060
That’s true. No matter what their marketing says, no matter what their marketing says.

01:03:51.340 –> 01:03:56.360
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s true, whether it’s mental tactics or physical techniques, right?

01:03:56.500 –> 01:04:01.100
There’s not one magic bullet and none of them are guaranteed to work 100% of

01:04:01.100 –> 01:04:02.640
the time. So that’s that’s a great point.

01:04:02.760 –> 01:04:06.300
The next one moving on was, you know, give them their personal space,

01:04:06.440 –> 01:04:09.900
let them have their personal space. And again, I know there’s going to be situations

01:04:09.900 –> 01:04:13.080
where that might not be the thing to do. Right.

01:04:13.280 –> 01:04:18.300
But with that comes monitoring your own personal space as well.

01:04:18.300 –> 01:04:23.280
Yeah yeah and that that one i think i it’s not that was not as much of a.

01:04:24.320 –> 01:04:27.640
Annoyance to me but the other one was i think because yeah

01:04:27.640 –> 01:04:30.560
like give them the space they require but again the space

01:04:30.560 –> 01:04:33.620
they require maybe like i uh the the guy

01:04:33.620 –> 01:04:36.480
that had the miscarriage that that ended with

01:04:36.480 –> 01:04:39.500
me giving him a hug and i hate oh yeah i

01:04:39.500 –> 01:04:42.560
hate them i hate them i hate them but but you don’t

01:04:42.560 –> 01:04:45.540
even hug your sister right yeah no

01:04:45.540 –> 01:04:49.340
i don’t look at the picture look at the handout out man i

01:04:49.340 –> 01:04:52.040
just i’m not

01:04:52.040 –> 01:04:55.200
a big physical toucher and except for certain situations right

01:04:55.200 –> 01:05:01.140
so the with that like but i did like so i gave him the space they required sometimes

01:05:01.140 –> 01:05:06.280
that space might be right so listen to what the person’s asking the person is

01:05:06.280 –> 01:05:10.340
like a lot of this stuff and mark mc young says it really well right most violence

01:05:10.340 –> 01:05:13.500
comes to instruction on how to avoid right so somebody’s like,

01:05:13.800 –> 01:05:16.900
don’t come effing near me, then don’t go near them.

01:05:18.160 –> 01:05:21.880
They’re communicating their need. If they’re like, please stop talking and leave,

01:05:21.900 –> 01:05:24.760
if you both stop talking and leave, that’s going to work out.

01:05:24.980 –> 01:05:28.240
But again, if they’re like, people just don’t understand, so that collapsing

01:05:28.240 –> 01:05:34.260
of distance, give them the space they require, I think would be a good amendment to that.

01:05:34.420 –> 01:05:38.220
Not just give them space as a default, because maybe you’re trying to make a

01:05:38.220 –> 01:05:40.640
connection with this person in order to get them out, or maybe they’re going

01:05:40.640 –> 01:05:41.800
to something horrible, right?

01:05:41.920 –> 01:05:46.240
If you are If you’re trying to de-escalate a jumper, you want to get as close

01:05:46.240 –> 01:05:48.160
as possible to grab them and pull them back, right?

01:05:48.340 –> 01:05:52.540
So you might need to get there. But again, there’s such a broad spectrum.

01:05:52.660 –> 01:05:57.020
But as a general rule with the active listening, I do think giving people faith

01:05:57.020 –> 01:05:59.000
most of the time is a good move.

01:05:59.560 –> 01:06:03.480
Yeah, because I think we would be remiss to think that…

01:06:04.718 –> 01:06:09.518
The individual that’s being handled, so to speak, dealt with,

01:06:09.758 –> 01:06:12.498
doesn’t have some boundary needs themselves.

01:06:12.898 –> 01:06:15.538
So that’s kind of like the other side of the boundary fence,

01:06:15.538 –> 01:06:20.398
too. But anyway, the other one was stay calm, right?

01:06:20.898 –> 01:06:26.058
Yeah, that was 100%, right? And again, there’s times where I didn’t.

01:06:26.458 –> 01:06:30.678
Yeah, exactly. There was times where I didn’t stay calm, but I was commiserating.

01:06:30.838 –> 01:06:32.338
I was trying to bond with the person.

01:06:32.958 –> 01:06:37.878
So, you know, right? Like, stay calm is good, especially that stranger danger kind of infant thing.

01:06:38.018 –> 01:06:42.118
But, like, if your spouse is riled up about something, you’re not riled up,

01:06:42.258 –> 01:06:43.818
like, you’re not going to be able to escalate them.

01:06:43.938 –> 01:06:45.918
Sometimes you’ve got to be like, I’m also angry. And they’re like,

01:06:46.018 –> 01:06:47.618
good, now we’re friends again, right?

01:06:48.098 –> 01:06:52.518
But, again, as a general rule, stay calm is always the best thing. Yeah.

01:06:53.578 –> 01:06:58.178
The other two, which are, I guess, kind of bundled together in my mind,

01:06:58.318 –> 01:07:03.478
is don’t get into name calling and don’t be verbally or physically threatening, right?

01:07:03.578 –> 01:07:07.278
Like there’s a there’ll be a time possibly, but we’re trying to avoid it.

01:07:07.378 –> 01:07:10.578
There’ll be a time possibly where you need to be physically threatening.

01:07:10.778 –> 01:07:15.778
Right. But we’re trying to get around that. That’s the whole point of this whole de-escalation thing.

01:07:16.018 –> 01:07:20.178
So if we go into our fighting stance while we’re saying, yeah,

01:07:20.278 –> 01:07:22.938
man, I know what it’s like to get shitty service in the bar.

01:07:23.078 –> 01:07:26.118
I know just what you mean. And you’re sliding your back foot back.

01:07:26.158 –> 01:07:29.218
You know, you’re contradicting yourself, which is a no-no.

01:07:29.398 –> 01:07:32.098
And now we’re also showing signs of physical threat.

01:07:32.738 –> 01:07:38.558
Right. being physically threatening so don’t want to do that exactly i think

01:07:38.558 –> 01:07:43.198
that those rules are both very important especially the name calling one one

01:07:43.198 –> 01:07:47.598
of the ways though people act as violence four ways in my experience which is

01:07:47.598 –> 01:07:50.258
through either high levels of emotion or chemicals,

01:07:50.838 –> 01:07:53.698
number two is your social conditioning they grew up in a violent place number

01:07:53.698 –> 01:07:56.578
three is your awkward conditioning or training and then number four is what

01:07:56.578 –> 01:07:58.738
we call othering using names.

01:07:59.569 –> 01:08:02.549
It makes people feel like you’re not on their side, right? It’s like you’re

01:08:02.549 –> 01:08:03.689
putting them in a separate tribe.

01:08:03.949 –> 01:08:08.929
So going back to your hostage negotiation example, it’s exactly hostage negotiation 101, right?

01:08:09.089 –> 01:08:13.529
You want to show the person how similar you are to them as opposed to showing how different you are.

01:08:13.589 –> 01:08:17.789
Because if we’re different, we’re not on the same team. If we’re similar, we are on the same team.

01:08:18.009 –> 01:08:21.829
So your goal is not to other the other person. Your goal is to make it feel

01:08:21.829 –> 01:08:23.769
like they’re not part of the situation.

01:08:24.289 –> 01:08:28.749
Because one of the most dangerous places you can be is somebody from the out

01:08:28.749 –> 01:08:31.629
group trying to tell people in an in-group how to behave.

01:08:32.769 –> 01:08:37.049
That’s dangerous. That’s why domestic violence calls are so dangerous for police officers, right?

01:08:37.129 –> 01:08:42.369
Because a third party out there is coming in to tell this in-group, the couple, how to live.

01:08:42.869 –> 01:08:46.989
And they’ll both very often turn on the officer, even if the person,

01:08:47.149 –> 01:08:49.129
like there’s a really graphic story,

01:08:49.549 –> 01:08:54.149
but where an officer came in to help a woman who was being domestic abuse and

01:08:54.149 –> 01:08:57.969
when the handcuffs went on the husband, she actually hit the cop’s back head

01:08:57.969 –> 01:09:00.949
with the bat the guy had just used to hit her.

01:09:01.129 –> 01:09:03.609
He hit her so hard. There was still some of her hair on the bat,

01:09:03.769 –> 01:09:08.089
but because it was an outgroup coming in, she actually used that to hit the officer.

01:09:09.220 –> 01:09:13.000
Be aware that our job, that’s why the Hawks Association metaphor,

01:09:13.440 –> 01:09:15.920
our job has become part of the in-group of class.

01:09:17.320 –> 01:09:20.500
So example, I usually want to bounce for example. It’s one of my favorite parts

01:09:20.500 –> 01:09:22.440
of you anywhere, but example.

01:09:23.660 –> 01:09:25.720
Guys are like, I want to come back in. I’m like, honestly, dude,

01:09:25.920 –> 01:09:28.840
I’d let you come back in, but it’s not my job. We all got jobs.

01:09:28.920 –> 01:09:31.020
You got a boss, right? Like, yeah, I have a boss.

01:09:31.180 –> 01:09:33.880
Well, my boss is a dick and doesn’t like you, doesn’t want you to come in.

01:09:33.980 –> 01:09:36.080
And unfortunately, it’s my job.

01:09:36.240 –> 01:09:40.760
We call it upper management clothes. It’s our job not to let you back in. You get that, right?

01:09:40.880 –> 01:09:44.300
You get up until you’re making a living against you. It’s just the rule.

01:09:44.880 –> 01:09:48.420
That very often de-escalates it. They’re like, yeah, because again,

01:09:48.580 –> 01:09:49.660
right? We’re both working stiff.

01:09:49.840 –> 01:09:53.500
We’re both like, I’m like, dude, this is my second job. Let’s try to pay for whatever.

01:09:53.640 –> 01:09:55.880
They’re like, yeah, that makes sense. And you often get this.

01:09:55.980 –> 01:09:59.320
I’m not mad at you. I’m mad at actual problems, right?

01:09:59.500 –> 01:10:06.420
And so if we can get in that group, same thing with the guy that had the miscarriage,

01:10:06.420 –> 01:10:07.740
right? Like, I have a daughter.

01:10:08.760 –> 01:10:13.340
I could sympathize for sure, and it’s harder, but I was like,

01:10:13.440 –> 01:10:16.380
man, I couldn’t even imagine what you’re going through. I have a daughter,

01:10:16.560 –> 01:10:19.820
and I can imagine you’re going through.

01:10:20.120 –> 01:10:24.340
That’s going to be the change. So I love the hostage negotiator thing that hostage

01:10:24.340 –> 01:10:27.700
negotiator 101 is get into as many companies there as fast as possible.

01:10:28.020 –> 01:10:31.040
Oh, you like hockey? I like hockey. You like boxing? I like hockey.

01:10:31.200 –> 01:10:34.020
You like that? I like that. Common ground, right? That’s important.

01:10:34.940 –> 01:10:38.320
Common ground. So the faster you can become I’m an in-group person.

01:10:38.800 –> 01:10:43.180
People in the in-group solve problems. People in the out-group often see it as the problem.

01:10:43.420 –> 01:10:47.260
So I can come in and be in the in-group solving the problem instead of being

01:10:47.260 –> 01:10:50.940
the force making the problem. That’s going to make the escalation a lot.

01:10:51.440 –> 01:10:53.880
Go a lot smoother and in your favor, hopefully.

01:10:55.100 –> 01:10:59.100
A couple of last points that I want to make, which we kind of talked on in the

01:10:59.100 –> 01:11:05.360
realtor story, just two that make a lot of sense to me is, you know,

01:11:06.519 –> 01:11:12.959
Assuming violence may be or might have been imminent, ultimately for you,

01:11:13.179 –> 01:11:17.339
you want to find yourself getting away and getting out of that situation, right?

01:11:18.439 –> 01:11:22.299
And so that’s your ultimate goal is to go home and be done with it, right?

01:11:22.819 –> 01:11:28.499
And then coupled with that, and I think it’s important and things have to get pretty bad, I imagine.

01:11:28.919 –> 01:11:32.559
And the chances are going to be rare because to your point, I think it’s more

01:11:32.559 –> 01:11:35.359
good people having a bad day or a bad night.

01:11:35.359 –> 01:11:38.419
But in the case of predators, I think it’s more,

01:11:38.819 –> 01:11:45.339
I won’t say likely, but, you know, just need to be aware is don’t go anywhere

01:11:45.339 –> 01:11:50.359
with an individual that you’re, you know, working to deescalate.

01:11:50.479 –> 01:11:55.739
Right. If they say, well, let’s go take a car ride and talk this out. Don’t do that. Yeah.

01:11:56.519 –> 01:11:59.719
No, unless you control the space you’re going to, like if you’re like,

01:12:00.019 –> 01:12:02.999
hey, come with me to this place that I control, that’s fine.

01:12:03.119 –> 01:12:04.399
But you want to be controlling the situation.

01:12:04.919 –> 01:12:09.379
One of the things I’m most quoted saying is if you’re not taking damage or being

01:12:09.379 –> 01:12:12.319
transported, use that time to make your situation better.

01:12:12.759 –> 01:12:15.219
So if I’m not getting hurt and I’m not being taken anywhere,

01:12:15.359 –> 01:12:16.859
use that time to de-escalate.

01:12:16.999 –> 01:12:21.159
If you need to pretend you’re complying to get to be better, that’s also fine.

01:12:21.519 –> 01:12:25.199
There’s lots of ways to win here. But we have to get out of the mindset that

01:12:25.219 –> 01:12:28.019
that, like I said, we have to reframe that with violence.

01:12:28.299 –> 01:12:31.339
Even if violence was imminent, maybe we can talk ourselves out of it,

01:12:31.379 –> 01:12:32.899
and that needs to be seen as the win.

01:12:33.119 –> 01:12:36.699
So, yeah, you don’t want to ever go to a secondary place with somebody if they

01:12:36.699 –> 01:12:38.559
control it. You’d like to control that situation.

01:12:38.899 –> 01:12:40.899
Home field advantage is a real thing.

01:12:41.899 –> 01:12:45.099
The statistics on taking a secondary crime location are grim.

01:12:45.559 –> 01:12:48.059
I think the last time I looked, and maybe I need to update this,

01:12:48.159 –> 01:12:52.399
so I’m going to say 2014 was the last time I saw the stat. It was the FBI database.

01:12:54.024 –> 01:12:58.204
And it said that 3%, only 3% of people that were taken to secondary crime scenes

01:12:58.204 –> 01:13:02.164
actually didn’t have the crime that they were taking or happened to them.

01:13:02.684 –> 01:13:06.524
3%. And of that 3%, we can break it down into a third.

01:13:07.084 –> 01:13:11.944
One third of the people, the reason the crime didn’t happen is there was some kind of intervention.

01:13:12.284 –> 01:13:16.524
A neighbor or a police officer or somebody came and stopped them.

01:13:16.744 –> 01:13:21.704
Number two was the person escaped 1% of the time on their own, very rarely.

01:13:21.704 –> 01:13:24.944
And last but not least the other third percent is the attacker

01:13:24.944 –> 01:13:28.024
just dies so it’s as likely your

01:13:28.024 –> 01:13:30.744
attacker just dies then it is for the

01:13:30.744 –> 01:13:33.864
cops to come or for you to actually escape under your own power if

01:13:33.864 –> 01:13:36.764
take it to a place where they control this is very very

01:13:36.764 –> 01:13:39.664
important stuff do not go to places you do

01:13:39.664 –> 01:13:42.544
not control people you don’t know especially in predatory

01:13:42.544 –> 01:13:45.284
and that’s the other thing i think that there’s a little bit of mention i

01:13:45.284 –> 01:13:48.144
know we’re going long here but another thing that bears to

01:13:48.144 –> 01:13:51.424
mention is very hard to de-escalate a predator if they

01:13:51.424 –> 01:13:54.304
already see you as prey right the rabbit can say everything it wants

01:13:54.304 –> 01:13:57.524
with the wolf the wolf’s still gonna eat it so when you’re

01:13:57.524 –> 01:14:00.864
this is the problem with de-escalation some people think like you said and this

01:14:00.864 –> 01:14:03.904
is such a great point in fact you brought it up is that they think oh if I’m

01:14:03.904 –> 01:14:07.604
de-escalating I should be complying and not saying no so you should get in the

01:14:07.604 –> 01:14:12.044
car with me I’m not supposed to say no when I de-escalate so okay right you’re

01:14:12.044 –> 01:14:15.884
like no no no no that’s not okay No, no, no, no, no. It’s okay here sometimes. Yeah. Right?

01:14:16.224 –> 01:14:19.644
So in that situation, our Predators, you take advantage of Predators,

01:14:19.824 –> 01:14:21.924
they have two-based tactics, Charm and Blitz.

01:14:22.144 –> 01:14:25.544
Charm always leads to Blitz, Blitz being a sudden, violent attack.

01:14:26.164 –> 01:14:30.144
So in their Charm state, they might use your de-escalation against you if you

01:14:30.144 –> 01:14:35.344
have bad de-escalation skills and you don’t know, you know, safety before de-escalation,

01:14:35.464 –> 01:14:39.884
always de-escalation, so make sure you’re safe while de-escalating and then

01:14:39.884 –> 01:14:40.824
after that you de-escalate.

01:14:40.884 –> 01:14:44.304
But don’t de-escalate before de-escalation. That’s not a good point. Yeah.

01:14:44.964 –> 01:14:50.684
No, that’s a good point. And certainly in trying to avoid saying no,

01:14:50.684 –> 01:14:55.264
if you’re asked to go somewhere, that’s definitely, to your point,

01:14:55.364 –> 01:14:57.864
an exception to that rule, for sure.

01:14:59.244 –> 01:15:03.524
Exactly. Exactly. Right. So we don’t want to, like, anytime we put hard and

01:15:03.524 –> 01:15:05.444
fast rules on stuff, guidelines are fine.

01:15:05.664 –> 01:15:11.484
Yeah. But in general, you have to hold your… The reason there’s a conflict is because…

01:15:12.794 –> 01:15:15.814
I’m going to kind of boil this down to, in my opinion, I’m a sales guy,

01:15:15.934 –> 01:15:19.734
so take it straight itself. In my opinion, everything is a negotiation.

01:15:20.854 –> 01:15:24.734
Every interaction is a negotiation. It’s about what I want, and then it’s about

01:15:24.734 –> 01:15:26.574
what they want, and then we try and find a happy compromise.

01:15:26.794 –> 01:15:27.954
That’s the S of negotiation.

01:15:28.574 –> 01:15:32.594
That’s everything, right? So example with my partner, I like to work a lot.

01:15:32.694 –> 01:15:35.114
I’ve worked a hauler. So she wanted to have a date night.

01:15:35.634 –> 01:15:40.234
That was a negotiation. It also was kind of a fight, right? So if I understand

01:15:40.234 –> 01:15:43.754
this is a negotiation and she wants something and I want something,

01:15:44.374 –> 01:15:47.954
only one person is going to win this or we’re going to find a medium where nobody’s

01:15:47.954 –> 01:15:50.554
happy and that’s a good negotiation. Everybody leaves that happy.

01:15:50.834 –> 01:15:55.954
So when we’re doing this stuff, we have to realize it’s still a negotiation.

01:15:56.194 –> 01:15:58.854
We still have a goal, which is to de-escalate that. But we also have a goal

01:15:58.854 –> 01:16:03.714
of maybe I’m breaking up with this person or they’re a road racist or they’re

01:16:03.714 –> 01:16:06.434
not coming into this space or I need to leave.

01:16:06.434 –> 01:16:10.814
So the goal in mind is not just to calm them down, but also to get what you

01:16:10.814 –> 01:16:12.214
need out of the conversation.

01:16:12.614 –> 01:16:16.774
So if you have that safety and it’s a negotiation in mind, that’s going to be

01:16:16.774 –> 01:16:21.054
a good through, like through a way through all of this.

01:16:21.194 –> 01:16:24.374
That’s going to guide the rest of your situation. Yeah, it’s a good guide.

01:16:25.534 –> 01:16:31.014
This has been a good chat, man. Another good chat. I’m really hoping a lot of

01:16:31.014 –> 01:16:32.274
people listen to this one.

01:16:33.114 –> 01:16:36.474
I hope so too and luckily you’re looking for a younger demographic my

01:16:36.474 –> 01:16:39.294
demographic is younger so hopefully people listen to the show I’ll

01:16:39.294 –> 01:16:42.054
share the heck out of it of course but yeah like this is

01:16:42.054 –> 01:16:45.374
this is I’m glad you wanted to have this topic this has been a very good conversation

01:16:45.374 –> 01:16:48.874
because this is definitely not talked about enough and it’s talked about in

01:16:48.874 –> 01:16:52.574
my opinion as as all the listeners yourself have heard today I have a lot of

01:16:52.574 –> 01:16:56.194
little problems with the way it’s generally taught because it’s often taught

01:16:56.194 –> 01:17:01.194
as a throwaway checklist to make sure you did that stuff before you get cool ninja skills.

01:17:01.434 –> 01:17:03.854
And it shouldn’t be. This should be the width.

01:17:04.414 –> 01:17:08.554
De-escalation should be the gold standard of self-defense, not the physical response.

01:17:09.500 –> 01:17:12.760
Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Couldn’t agree more.

01:17:13.180 –> 01:17:17.200
Yeah. I think it’s been a good, a good, good one for us to cover for sure.

01:17:17.620 –> 01:17:20.600
How can people find you? I know you got new stuff out, so.

01:17:21.320 –> 01:17:25.220
Sure. So I’m still, most of the stuff is still going on Randy King Live.

01:17:25.500 –> 01:17:28.300
So Instagram is the best place to get a hold of me. That’s what you taught me.

01:17:28.460 –> 01:17:32.280
I really want everyone to understand I’m super accessible. If you message me, I will respond.

01:17:32.540 –> 01:17:35.040
I love having talks and communication with people.

01:17:35.320 –> 01:17:41.100
I’m still very much a one-on-one coach to like speak to bigger numbers because

01:17:41.100 –> 01:17:43.900
I like to hear people’s stories and learn things that I don’t know.

01:17:44.100 –> 01:17:46.980
Right? So if you have a story about de-escalation you want to share with me

01:17:46.980 –> 01:17:50.200
or questions about it, please feel free to at Randy King Live.

01:17:50.600 –> 01:17:55.980
Um, that’s the best way Instagram. You can get me, uh, Randy King live.com is my website.

01:17:56.100 –> 01:17:58.000
If you’re looking to book me, but also if you want to book me,

01:17:58.060 –> 01:17:59.900
just send me a message on Instagram. It’s easier.

01:18:00.280 –> 01:18:04.600
Uh, and then I think that’s pretty much it. I have a podcast as well called,

01:18:04.780 –> 01:18:08.540
uh, the devil’s advocate podcast where I debate people.

01:18:08.820 –> 01:18:12.920
If you want that, it’s all Randy King live channel. You can find it anywhere.

01:18:13.540 –> 01:18:18.300
Uh, podcasts exist. Yeah, that’s awesome. Randy, thanks so much for doing this

01:18:18.300 –> 01:18:20.960
again. And I’m looking forward to the next one already, too.

01:18:22.440 –> 01:18:24.840
Awesome. Anytime you want to have me. I love having conversations with you.

01:18:25.040 –> 01:18:27.320
It’s been very fun. Appreciate it. Talk to you soon.

01:18:38.480 –> 01:18:46.990
Music.