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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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I’m your host, Jim O’Brien. Hey, and welcome back to podcast number 38.

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Today I have on my special guest, Tammy Yard-McCracken, psychotherapist turned Krav

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Maga practitioner and self-defense instructor. Tammy, how are you?

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I’m well, thanks. How are you? I’m good. I’m good. Thanks so much for doing this with us.

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Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely.

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So today we’re going to talk about all things self-defense related,

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and I think we want to focus on some maybe more philosophical points of self-defense

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and getting women involved in that circle.

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I know when we had our first phone conversation, you know, So one of the pressing

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questions I’ve had on my mind, and I think I told you I’d asked a previous guest on the show,

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Kelly Sayre, similar types of questions is, how do we get more people interested

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in their personal safety and involved?

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And so that’s where I kind of want to start things. But before that,

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I want you to tell our guest who you are, what your background is,

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your history, what you do, and kind of how you got to where you are today.

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Sure. It’s a little bit of a windy, twisty little trail, so I’ll try to keep it from being a novel.

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I’m not young, so I’m over 50, and so there’s a lot of twists and turns along the way.

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My fundamental training for the majority of my adult life, I’ve functioned as a psychotherapist.

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I lived in Texas for over 25 years and had a practice in that area and did a

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lot of other things in the journey of being a psychotherapist.

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My actual original degree is in special education, so this has been a very interesting

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journey from the mid-1980s forward.

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But as it relates to getting into martial arts and then into self-defense,

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my first journey into martial arts was actually…

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In my early 30s, I had one of my kiddos was doing the whole,

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you know, sort of traditional martial arts thing. Yeah.

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And trying to be, you know, like doing the good mom thing and being involved.

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I was like, I’ll do this too and then we can do it together sort of thing.

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And did a variety of things, mostly Taekwondo and then Tai Chi through that

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traditional martial arts journey.

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One of the things that evolved along the way while I was also in private practice

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is doing work with the Harris County Victim Assistance Program,

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which Harris County is a big county that encompasses Houston, Texas.

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And the victim’s assistance programs for

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your listeners who may not be familiar with them are sort of

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government sponsored in a way like their local programs through the judicial

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system and law enforcement system that provide some degree of support and counseling

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for folks who are going through the system who’ve been targeted for violent action.

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And they’re in the criminal justice system is grinding away in support of whatever

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prosecution may be taking place.

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And the victim’s assistance programs provide a limited number of counseling

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sessions for those individuals while they’re in the process.

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And so as a psychotherapist, you get involved with that and say about you,

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and then you choose to take those folks on as they give you a call and say,

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hey, we’ve got somebody who needs your support. Yeah.

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I did that kind of work. And then as a psychotherapist, I also did a significant

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amount of work in just general clients who had been survivors of various kinds

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of violence and post-traumatic stress disorder.

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So doing that kind of work over the years and then also being a traditional

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martial artist discovered that there’s that point at which there’s a point of time on the couch,

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to use that phrase, that when somebody completes for that period of their life,

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has completed their therapeutic journey,

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there’s still this little place of personal agency or personal authority that

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the couch couldn’t give back.

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So traditional therapeutic processing, regardless of the approach of theoretical

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orientation that you take,

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is not going to be able to touch that raw physical place of agency that was

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taken in that violent attack or violent encounter.

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We can theoretically address it

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a hundred ways from sunday but that the physical aspect of it is we just can’t

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touch it on the couch not really and the more that became evidence yeah you

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know it’s like well it has to be if it was physically taken it has to be physically

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regained is my theory at a point so.

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I recognizing traditional martial arts and how lengthy that journey is before

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you reach fundamental competency, which is the black belt when it’s not a black

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belt factory kind of a training center.

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That’s not I knew that wasn’t going to be the approach that I could recommend

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as psychotherapist for people.

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Because it’s like, hey, go invest in 10 years of martial arts training to reach

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the point where you begin to feel like you’ve got that agency back.

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And the through through that

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journey I met a Krav Maga

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instructor who was just developing a program in

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the Houston area he was one of the first guys to really kick things off

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in Houston this was a while ago so and and

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we ended up creating a little connection and I referred some people to him with

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the caveat like you can’t like try to enroll them financially as students because

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that gets sketchy for me as a psychotherapist making those kinds of recommendations.

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But I have this theory that something like Krav at the foundational level,

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and I know you and I share a Krav background.

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Could really create a very quick touchstone of, even if they don’t want to invest

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in a physical training program, that they can at least know in the back of their

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minds, I could do this if I wanted to. I could do it, yeah, absolutely.

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And so I had a couple of clients pick me up on the offer.

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They went and did a couple of classes with him. One of them stuck with it for

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a good long period of time.

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And that was so that the things lined up there.

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The idea that if I could do something that could teach me relatively quickly, I’d

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that I can regain this personal agency, that there would be a switch that could flip.

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So I started training, because don’t recommend something you haven’t done.

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So I started training in Krav, became a certified instructor in Krav Maga,

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and even through that journey, eventually reached the point of there’s still some missing pieces,

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when it comes to actual down and dirty self-defense at its most basic level,

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which launched me back into, you know, the training and the studying journey, which brought me here.

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So that’s sort of the twisty little tale.

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Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. One question that did enter my mind as you

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were talking through that, and it completely resonated with me when you said

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it, as you said, and I’m paraphrasing here, but you said those that have been

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through, you know, physical things,

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violence, acts of violence, your theory was, is that in order to be able to

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more fully or completely recover,

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at least start recovering from that, they needed to go through something similar

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themselves to prove that they could do it themselves or they were capable of

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doing that to kind of help restart their engines, I guess, is the way I have it in my head.

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Have you been able to prove that theory? And is that proven to be what it actually takes?

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Or have you found other things or you just found that wasn’t the case at all?

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Like, where did you come out of that or are you still working on it well

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i’m certainly still working on it i think it’s and i think i i think it’s a

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two things one i would have discovered that over time i’m working with people

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who have violence in their background men and women alike so it doesn’t it’s

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not gender specific here that,

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Taking to the mat and something that is basic, foundational, raw.

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Just learning how to take care of yourself physically in this context has definitely

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made a difference for those individuals who are stepping on the mat and being

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able to regain a sense of agency.

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Certainly not everybody who’s been through a violent

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encounter has to go through

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a physical training experience or program to be

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able to feel like their journey is as complete

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as it will ever be as we journey through life so it’s not like if you don’t

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do this you’re not you’re going to be left unfinished i think that people who

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find that they notice this feels like there’s still a piece of self-doubt.

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There’s still a question.

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There’s still an internal dialogue about, can, should I face this again?

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Will I act differently? Will I have, you know, what will happen for me if I

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end up in this situation again? People who carry that.

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A pivotal point for, and then I think just overall education,

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like people who could, so much of self-defense is not the physical piece.

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And you shouldn’t know that I’ve got all kinds of tools in my toolbox that I

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can access should I need to, or should I choose to, goes to the non-physical side.

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And I think that that is also a pivotal piece.

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So I think it’s a both-and that makes sense. I was a little twisted there in my response.

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No, I think, you know, in my mind, the word that keeps coming up,

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and I know in some circles, They say it’s actually not a good word to use,

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but I struggle with that. I keep thinking empowerment, right?

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Like getting back to where you feel like, you know, you’re feeling whole again.

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You’re feeling capable, even if you never felt capable before.

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Maybe now that you’ve gotten a little training under your belt,

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you’re getting confidence back.

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And it’s, dare I say again, empowering.

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You know, I think, yeah. Go ahead. Yeah, the word’s gotten a little,

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it’s been used so much. I think that people are getting a little glitchy with it.

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However we use the language, it’s just that personal agency.

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You also touched on something that I know we wanted to talk about today,

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and we kind of touched on it in our first phone call, but talking about even

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with Krav, even though I think it’s my personal opinion,

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maybe it is yours too, but I think Krav does a better job of addressing actual

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self-defense methods and techniques better than some of the traditional martial arts do.

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At least I know they did for me. So I definitely want to talk about that.

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But getting back to this whole thing, and of course, you kind of have a unique

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feeder to the program through helping people that have had trouble situations occur in their lives,

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you know, helping them work through those or whatever.

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And that’s kind of a unique input into, I’m sure, your schools and training.

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But outside that and back kind of the normal paths, and again,

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kind of the question where I started, because it’s one that’s always on my mind,

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and we’ll be all over the place today, I’m sure, but that’s okay.

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We’ll let it go where it goes, is people, or specifically women,

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if we want to focus on that, which I do some of the time today anyway,

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how do we get them more interested?

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You know, not everybody’s been through a violent encounter.

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Some people think they can’t do it or, you know, some people avoid it because,

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hey, it’ll never happen to me or I don’t have the time.

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How do we get people or women specifically to take more of an interest in their

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personal safety and get them more involved in programs like yours and others?

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That is the million dollar question. And I keep getting that answer.

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Well, and every and I get I’ve been asked this a bunch over the years.

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And every time I get asked, I ask the question, I think I’m prepared to answer it.

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And then I end up sitting here for a second, not knowing what to say.

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It’s because it’s both simple and complex at the same time.

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So the simple answer is, you know, making training options and education options abundantly available.

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And it’s the simple answer. But the complexity is, and you’ve already touched

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on it, are all of the reasons, explanations, excuses, et cetera, for not training.

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And like, I don’t have time or I don’t need it.

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And, you know, so I think there’s a deeper linchpin that none of us have quite

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figured out how to leverage yet,

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which is this is fundamentally about training for and from a place of power.

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And I think the self-defense language, and I use it all the time,

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so I’m 100% guilty of this, the self-defense language speaks to victimization.

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It does, yeah. And, you know, it really does.

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And we, so somehow we have to figure out how to change the primary message.

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And, you know, and how do we do that? Because people are so,

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you know, we have this joke at our training center here in Northern Virginia.

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Know when we talk about what we teach that you

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know self-defense for example the term itself is

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is a legal term and it’s an affirm it’s

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an affirmative defense right so when you say act is in self-defense you’ve just

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admitted to committing some level of assault if it’s you know at a physical

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level yeah and and but you think you should be able to get away with it right

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so that’s an affirmative defense and so what we really do when we’re teaching

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the physical skills like at our training centers,

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we’re teaching people how to effectively evaluate escalating situations and

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make good decisions under pressure and stress,

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including when to use physical violence to get themselves done safely when needed.

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That plays very poorly over the door.

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You can’t put all of that on a sign, right? So you can say, you’re a self-suffer.

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I get asked that question all the time. I just want to know,

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I need you to tell me when I should go, you know?

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Yeah. When do I go? Yeah. When do I know I should throw the first punch or pull my gun? When do I go?

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And the answer is always, well, and they hate it. It depends.

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It depends. 100%. Yeah. I have students who’ve trained with me for a long time,

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including some of my instructors, who will ask a question and they’ll look at

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me and they’ll say, and you can’t answer, it depends.

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You can’t say that. It’s like, well.

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Yeah. Then I can’t answer your question. I just did a podcast last night with

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a buddy of mine, but it was, he kind of was the genesis of it.

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But then I’ve been talking to a follower off and on, and we did a podcast on

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personal safety for the disabled.

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And there’s varying degrees of disabled, right? And that’s what this one gentleman’s question was.

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He suffers from Crohn’s, and from day to day, his physical abilities vary.

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Some days he’s so weak, he can barely walk around on his own,

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right? And in other days, he might be capable of a hammer fist or an elbow strike or something.

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And he was like, I want to know, I want you to talk about and teach what physical

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techniques I could use in my position.

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And before I even did the podcast, I wrote him back and I said,

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just so you know, there is no magical bullets.

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Like, I’m not going to tell you, here’s the three techniques you should use

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all the time, right? They always want the answers and there’s not necessarily

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a black and white magic bullet that’s going to work for you every time.

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I love those, you know, what are the top seven things every woman should know?

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Yeah, right. Don’t ask me that question. Well, we’ve got seven elbows. There’s a start.

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So I don’t want to harp on Krav too much, but I think Krav is an example of

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the larger topic or problem that I want us to talk about a little bit in self-defense in general.

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And again, I think you feel the same way as obviously you have a school doing

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it and you’re an instructor and all of that.

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So, you know, suffice it to say, and it’s one of the things that first attracted

00:17:30.248 –> 00:17:35.328
me to it back in, I think the first time I ever did Krav was 07, 08.

00:17:35.688 –> 00:17:42.828
I did a carjacking seminar and I knew before I went, I knew about Krav.

00:17:43.508 –> 00:17:48.108
And after that seminar, I was hooked, not because of all the fancy stuff we

00:17:48.108 –> 00:17:53.188
were doing, but generally the focus being on self-defense, which coming from

00:17:53.188 –> 00:17:55.888
a more traditional Korean-based martial art,

00:17:56.448 –> 00:18:02.748
having a black belt in that, I never felt like I was solid in actual self-defense techniques.

00:18:02.748 –> 00:18:08.968
Like doing all your little forms and patterns and katas aren’t going to do you

00:18:08.968 –> 00:18:10.248
any good on the street, right?

00:18:10.628 –> 00:18:15.828
Not to overplay that record, but Krav for me certainly, you know,

00:18:15.908 –> 00:18:19.288
was eye-opening because I was like, here’s a system that right out of the gate

00:18:19.288 –> 00:18:22.588
you’re learning mostly practical stuff, right?

00:18:23.308 –> 00:18:26.208
Mm-hmm. But I still think,

00:18:26.348 –> 00:18:29.268
and you and I talked about this when we had our first conversation,

00:18:29.268 –> 00:18:34.048
I still think Krav is guilty of the same things that everyone else is,

00:18:34.048 –> 00:18:41.508
is that there’s very little emphasis or focus on the informational pieces around self-defense.

00:18:41.508 –> 00:18:46.108
Because again, and I think you said it too, self-defense is always thought of

00:18:46.108 –> 00:18:49.208
in terms of physicality or tools or weapons, right?

00:18:49.828 –> 00:18:55.688
There’s not. It’s talked about for those about… Right.

00:19:13.976 –> 00:19:18.336
So you’re preaching to the choir and I’m with you a hundred percent on that

00:19:18.336 –> 00:19:21.636
one. And we do have some things that we’re doing to combat it.

00:19:21.816 –> 00:19:26.396
And, you know, I, so Kravos, I’m like you, I once, you know,

00:19:26.476 –> 00:19:31.236
I transitioned from traditional martial arts into Kravos hooked hard and it

00:19:31.236 –> 00:19:35.256
is, it does, it’s, it’s pretty basic. It’s gritty.

00:19:35.776 –> 00:19:39.076
It’s based on, you know, what generally is happening.

00:19:39.356 –> 00:19:43.456
And it is a combat fighting system.

00:19:43.456 –> 00:19:48.596
So it’s one of the best things I ever heard as far as the description about

00:19:48.596 –> 00:19:53.676
what Krav Maga was when I was at a training camp in Israel and one of the senior

00:19:53.676 –> 00:19:59.356
instructors said Krav Maga is a combat fighting system with application to self-defense.

00:19:59.356 –> 00:20:01.996
I’m like, that’s it. That’s the phrase. Yeah.

00:20:02.276 –> 00:20:04.536
As opposed to Krav Maga is self-defense.

00:20:04.876 –> 00:20:08.636
Yeah. It’s a fighting system. Yeah. And, you know, and it’s got stuff in it

00:20:08.636 –> 00:20:11.776
that, you know, like our long gun defenses, they’re fun.

00:20:12.136 –> 00:20:15.316
But, you know, walking down the street in Northern Virginia,

00:20:15.316 –> 00:20:18.656
I’m not too worried about having to defend somebody who’s got an AR.

00:20:19.639 –> 00:20:22.459
Swung across their shoulder in the

00:20:22.459 –> 00:20:25.779
cbs you know it’s like it’s just a it’s you

00:20:25.779 –> 00:20:28.699
know it’s just not doesn’t it’s not quite as relative plus some

00:20:28.699 –> 00:20:35.259
of the things that we teach in krav maga with without of the appropriate context

00:20:35.259 –> 00:20:38.879
are going to land you in jail i mean that’s just you know there’s just dollars

00:20:38.879 –> 00:20:46.399
to it so yeah the the con sort of how we’re addressing it at like at our local

00:20:46.399 –> 00:20:48.179
training center, and then with 500 Rising,

00:20:48.639 –> 00:20:51.739
they’re parallel, and one is a bit more intense than the other.

00:20:52.699 –> 00:20:58.739
Over the years, we’ve done a variety of permutations of an onboarding program

00:20:58.739 –> 00:21:03.859
at our training center, and we keep reinventing the wheel to try and find the best approach,

00:21:03.879 –> 00:21:08.699
and I don’t think we have it quite yet, but in that onboarding process as a new student,

00:21:09.019 –> 00:21:12.839
there are certain things that we do that you get exposed to.

00:21:12.839 –> 00:21:14.059
So we have conversations.

00:21:14.419 –> 00:21:17.799
We try not to get too, you know, throw the PowerPoint up so much,

00:21:17.879 –> 00:21:23.839
but we do a lot of whiteboard talk on, you know, what that self-defense is a

00:21:23.839 –> 00:21:25.699
legal term, for example, and what does that mean?

00:21:25.979 –> 00:21:30.799
And what, you know, there’s a couple of different acronyms out there for establishing

00:21:30.799 –> 00:21:34.779
the circumstances that self-defense or no, like we use IMOP,

00:21:34.839 –> 00:21:39.219
intent means opportunity preclusion. So we talk about that these are the factors

00:21:39.219 –> 00:21:40.479
that get to be considered.

00:21:40.919 –> 00:21:46.019
And this is, you know, the four factors involved in every violent encounter.

00:21:46.199 –> 00:21:50.779
And this is what they are. And the traditional four places where things can break bad.

00:21:50.939 –> 00:21:53.779
Like, I don’t know the environment that you’re in.

00:21:53.779 –> 00:22:02.819
And we have these 15 to 30-minute conversations with students in this onboarding

00:22:02.819 –> 00:22:07.939
process where we flush this out, not as deeply as we could, certainly,

00:22:08.119 –> 00:22:13.939
but enough that it’s not a two-second soundbite in between striking patterns, right?

00:22:13.939 –> 00:22:21.959
And then on the mat ongoing, because our students have that foundation underneath

00:22:21.959 –> 00:22:25.139
them, at least a little bit, will we make.

00:22:25.779 –> 00:22:28.959
Little sound bites as we go through class.

00:22:29.259 –> 00:22:33.139
And, you know, we have a huge advantage, I think, at our training center that

00:22:33.139 –> 00:22:39.439
I’m very grateful for because we’re in the general Washington, D.C. metro area.

00:22:39.619 –> 00:22:43.499
We have a decent number of people who are involved, like DOD,

00:22:43.679 –> 00:22:47.719
federal law enforcement, you know, contractors, et cetera, who train at the training center.

00:22:47.879 –> 00:22:52.719
And they are really quick to reinforce those sound bites when we say them.

00:22:52.979 –> 00:22:56.599
So I had a guy not too long ago in class, one of our newer students,

00:22:56.619 –> 00:23:00.959
he’s in our onboarding program, say, I was thinking about this when you’re talking

00:23:00.959 –> 00:23:04.459
about your gentleman with, you know, with a bearing degree facility.

00:23:04.819 –> 00:23:09.799
Well, when do I hit them, right? When do I get to do that? He pretty much asked the same question.

00:23:10.019 –> 00:23:15.459
We were doing a drill about three weeks ago that was based on escape and invasion.

00:23:16.039 –> 00:23:20.679
So it was a defensive action and create space, get out, go, create space, get out, go.

00:23:20.879 –> 00:23:25.719
And we were repping this. and finally he looked at me he was very frustrated

00:23:25.719 –> 00:23:28.179
and he goes well why do i just get to hit him.

00:23:30.119 –> 00:23:34.039
Well that’s what you’re there for right right so

00:23:34.039 –> 00:23:36.719
that’s the expectation people come through the door like i’m you know

00:23:36.719 –> 00:23:40.519
it’s crab we’re gonna you know we’re gonna smash things and so

00:23:40.519 –> 00:23:43.839
it is we had a brief conversation and then

00:23:43.839 –> 00:23:46.519
put a pin on it and came back after class and just talked about it

00:23:46.519 –> 00:23:49.419
a little bit more in depth that and this is not a small human

00:23:49.419 –> 00:23:52.299
being he is not he’s not five foot five this

00:23:52.299 –> 00:23:54.959
guy’s well over 60 tall he’s in

00:23:54.959 –> 00:23:58.099
decent physical condition and i’m like you you’re going

00:23:58.099 –> 00:24:01.319
to stand out in a crowd when you smash somebody in the face yeah

00:24:01.319 –> 00:24:05.759
you’re gonna you know like there’s i get the frustration of you just want to

00:24:05.759 –> 00:24:11.519
hit him to teach him a lesson but there’s a big picture for us to look at here

00:24:11.519 –> 00:24:18.879
that you need to be able to assess so the that’s the within our training program,

00:24:19.259 –> 00:24:23.539
how we’re trying to address it, it’s certainly not a perfect model,

00:24:23.839 –> 00:24:27.979
but it’s better than not at all.

00:24:29.182 –> 00:24:32.062
Huge piece of the training curriculum as we develop the instructors.

00:24:33.182 –> 00:24:40.122
Yeah, and I’ve seen some other or I’ve heard about some other and seen it firsthand too,

00:24:40.322 –> 00:24:44.422
some other CROB schools that are starting up what they’ve kind of done with

00:24:44.422 –> 00:24:46.862
the notion of coming into level one, if you will.

00:24:47.102 –> 00:24:51.222
And they’ve implemented a lot of these, I think most of them are calling them

00:24:51.222 –> 00:24:55.782
like foundations, right? You come in and figure out if you know how to throw

00:24:55.782 –> 00:24:59.402
a punch or not, and then let’s spend some time talking to you about stuff, too.

00:24:59.982 –> 00:25:05.462
And I think that’s a, A, it makes for a better feeder to get them prepared for

00:25:05.462 –> 00:25:06.942
what they’re about to have to go through.

00:25:07.162 –> 00:25:11.502
And then, B, it gets them used to the idea of thinking about some things they

00:25:11.502 –> 00:25:16.022
may not have before and things that they need to, right?

00:25:16.122 –> 00:25:19.902
Like situational awareness, de-escalation, avoidance, on and on and on.

00:25:21.322 –> 00:25:25.522
Yeah, 100%. And it’s a really positive trend.

00:25:25.822 –> 00:25:29.702
I know several other, like you, I know several crowd schools across the country

00:25:29.702 –> 00:25:35.122
whose systems, you know, they were affiliated with a variety of systems.

00:25:35.282 –> 00:25:38.042
So they’re not small people I know from when we were with TNG.

00:25:38.662 –> 00:25:42.862
And they’re all beginning to trend. Well, not all of them, but the ones I know

00:25:42.862 –> 00:25:44.902
of, right, are starting to trend that way.

00:25:45.022 –> 00:25:49.042
And that’s a really positive sign that that’s beginning to happen within the

00:25:49.042 –> 00:25:53.122
training centers. So two thoughts come to mind is you were talking about,

00:25:53.282 –> 00:25:57.542
you know, what’s the practicality of doing long rifle defenses in Costco?

00:25:57.902 –> 00:26:02.022
You know, could happen, but, you know, and it’s super cool and it makes for

00:26:02.022 –> 00:26:04.922
an attractive seminar to put out there for the weekend.

00:26:05.302 –> 00:26:09.562
I think going back, which obviously has never been taught, at least I haven’t

00:26:09.562 –> 00:26:11.102
had the fortune of learning it yet.

00:26:11.242 –> 00:26:17.682
But it’s in my book is hand grenade defense. I think that’s one that we all should study up on.

00:26:19.542 –> 00:26:23.362
Right in the back of the book but it’s still there yeah

00:26:23.362 –> 00:26:26.822
and and and that’s where so you know cross-foundation it’s

00:26:26.822 –> 00:26:32.262
a military fighting system yeah and so it it’s born from that that’s one of

00:26:32.262 –> 00:26:38.682
the beauties of it and the you know my instructor a all used to who worked directly

00:26:38.682 –> 00:26:43.662
with emi for decades used to say that emi would say if we’re teaching something

00:26:43.662 –> 00:26:46.782
my wife can’t do them well and we shouldn’t be teaching it.

00:26:47.202 –> 00:26:50.482
Makes perfect sense. And it still has those military roots. And,

00:26:50.482 –> 00:26:56.962
you know, we just, I think we have to be careful as instructors to manage how

00:26:56.962 –> 00:27:01.442
much of the Kool-Aid we will fully drink. Yeah. And, you know,

00:27:01.788 –> 00:27:08.708
And more importantly, how much of that Kool-Aid spell that we spit back out to the students, right?

00:27:09.708 –> 00:27:14.948
Yeah. I’ve got a bunch of what I would probably consider at this point philosophical

00:27:14.948 –> 00:27:21.608
questions, but piggybacking on getting people more interested in their personal safety,

00:27:21.908 –> 00:27:29.148
doing a better job of disseminating the information as much or more than we

00:27:29.148 –> 00:27:30.708
do the physical aspects.

00:27:32.188 –> 00:27:39.368
You know, I’ve spent, as I’m sure you have too, I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing videos,

00:27:39.808 –> 00:27:44.348
reading horrible stories, whatever, watching a lot of videos I probably should

00:27:44.348 –> 00:27:47.808
not have watched and will never be able to get out of my head again.

00:27:47.808 –> 00:27:51.848
And I think that’s one of the reasons why people don’t do it more themselves.

00:27:52.268 –> 00:27:58.008
But, you know, in order to be a good student, you need to take on studying and

00:27:58.008 –> 00:28:00.608
learning more about violence on your own accord as well.

00:28:00.688 –> 00:28:06.188
It’s not just about coming in class and learning specific contexts and modalities.

00:28:06.188 –> 00:28:09.108
You need to get the full effect.

00:28:09.428 –> 00:28:14.188
You need to go study. And some of that involves watching these horrific things

00:28:14.188 –> 00:28:19.708
through security footage or whatever else and not watching videos or not,

00:28:19.868 –> 00:28:21.708
sorry, not videos, but movies, right?

00:28:21.828 –> 00:28:26.128
Not taking your cues from the typical media outlet in Hollywood.

00:28:26.128 –> 00:28:27.748
What are your thoughts on that?

00:28:28.548 –> 00:28:33.008
You know, I think it’s a balancing act, 100% on the cues from Hollywood.

00:28:33.008 –> 00:28:36.048
With my husband who’s got a law enforcement background

00:28:36.048 –> 00:28:39.188
he and i are horrible watching movies together because we’re

00:28:39.188 –> 00:28:42.628
like that’s not a sleeper hold you

00:28:42.628 –> 00:28:46.248
know like what what was that yeah so we

00:28:46.248 –> 00:28:49.388
you know so we have to like okay we’re just watching for entertainment and you

00:28:49.388 –> 00:28:55.748
know let all the hollywood stuff go by but the i think the oh this is actually

00:28:55.748 –> 00:28:59.388
a really good question about watching the actual like cctv footage and stuff

00:28:59.388 –> 00:29:05.968
and that when we did our first instructional foundation course for 500 Rising last year.

00:29:07.208 –> 00:29:10.468
Just a stellar group of people are in that first course.

00:29:11.428 –> 00:29:15.448
One of them was a young woman who’s been a martial artist her whole life and

00:29:15.448 –> 00:29:18.908
an instructor. She’s this really cool,

00:29:19.991 –> 00:29:23.171
sort of analogy is she said, you know, our lives are pies, right?

00:29:23.251 –> 00:29:25.451
So we’ve got our lives are all divided up into different pieces,

00:29:25.671 –> 00:29:29.651
you know, mom, the mom piece, the, you know, the work, you know,

00:29:29.771 –> 00:29:32.071
professional piece, the martial arts piece, the whatever.

00:29:32.511 –> 00:29:37.751
And she said, you know, life is, there’s, there’s the violence life, right?

00:29:37.931 –> 00:29:41.631
And that there’s more, there’s lots to life.

00:29:41.951 –> 00:29:46.371
And so I think there’s a cautionary tale, like, cause like you said,

00:29:46.491 –> 00:29:49.651
watching stuff that you won’t ever be able to get out of your head.

00:29:50.331 –> 00:29:55.311
In encouraging people to go learn about violence so they understand it more.

00:29:55.511 –> 00:29:59.971
So they understand that it’s not a Hollywood conversation. I think that’s valid.

00:30:00.191 –> 00:30:04.091
And I think a friend of mine calls it violence porn.

00:30:04.511 –> 00:30:11.811
So, you know, like being careful about spending too much time in that as well.

00:30:11.811 –> 00:30:18.791
And when I had this really interesting request a couple of years ago to do a

00:30:18.791 –> 00:30:24.711
women’s self-defense seminar, like a day-long course that had zero physical in it.

00:30:24.951 –> 00:30:29.691
Because the woman who was sponsoring it said, I have a whole handful of women

00:30:29.691 –> 00:30:32.371
who I would come and do this.

00:30:34.111 –> 00:30:38.271
But they either won’t do the physical, don’t want to do the physical, or can’t.

00:30:38.991 –> 00:30:43.831
And I was like, all right, so that’s a first. And sure, let’s see what happens.

00:30:43.951 –> 00:30:45.411
And you’ve sold out, right?

00:30:46.831 –> 00:30:52.091
Yeah, we did, actually. And, you know, I have a woman in the course who has

00:30:52.091 –> 00:30:53.951
an ass, and so she’s wheelchair-bound.

00:30:54.171 –> 00:30:57.971
And, you know, she didn’t ever come to anything else that’s more traditional.

00:30:58.431 –> 00:31:02.831
And as we were going through the material, I had a couple videos that I use

00:31:02.831 –> 00:31:06.551
when I’m teaching of, like, and that’s what this looks like,

00:31:06.591 –> 00:31:07.551
and that’s what this looks like.

00:31:07.751 –> 00:31:11.331
And I’ve learned to tee people up ahead of time.

00:31:11.931 –> 00:31:17.311
Instead of just letting it roll because i’m so used to seeing it and both as

00:31:17.311 –> 00:31:18.671
a self-sense instructor but,

00:31:19.325 –> 00:31:25.685
working as a psychotherapist with a whole scope of violent behavior,

00:31:25.685 –> 00:31:30.465
both in offenders as well as survivors and reading case history after case history

00:31:30.465 –> 00:31:33.705
after case history of like, wow, humans really do that to each other?

00:31:34.165 –> 00:31:39.565
Okay. You know, for basically almost 30 years, I’m, I’m a little numb to it

00:31:39.565 –> 00:31:42.505
and I’ve, you know, fail up,

00:31:42.965 –> 00:31:45.325
screwed up a couple of times and I’ve learned to pause and go,

00:31:45.425 –> 00:31:49.365
okay, so now what’s going to be on that screen is a video and I just want you

00:31:49.365 –> 00:31:53.425
to be aware, you know, it’s pretty raw and we’re not going to watch it ad nauseum.

00:31:54.685 –> 00:31:58.405
Yeah, you know, just like letting people know because I think we need to balance.

00:31:59.725 –> 00:32:02.265
The, I don’t know, I think there’s a balance point there.

00:32:02.805 –> 00:32:06.625
Well, you know, I think watching stuff like that, and again,

00:32:06.785 –> 00:32:10.625
it’s easy to kind of get caught up in as you say, the violence porn, right?

00:32:10.745 –> 00:32:16.325
Because, you know, being a student of I watch a lot of it.

00:32:16.705 –> 00:32:20.145
Probably not as much as some, I’m sure, but I watch a lot of it.

00:32:20.345 –> 00:32:25.845
And I think it serves, well, I almost say three purposes off the top of my head.

00:32:25.925 –> 00:32:32.485
One is it shows that things don’t look like and don’t work like they are in

00:32:32.485 –> 00:32:33.965
the movies, like they do in the movies.

00:32:34.165 –> 00:32:38.265
I think that’s huge. And that’s a drum I bang on all the time.

00:32:38.365 –> 00:32:39.845
It ain’t like Hollywood kids.

00:32:40.045 –> 00:32:45.525
The other one is, is that just the flip side of that coin, it shows you realistically

00:32:45.525 –> 00:32:49.025
how things happen and what really occurs.

00:32:49.545 –> 00:32:53.105
And, you know, again, they’re kind of all tied together.

00:32:53.425 –> 00:32:59.185
But the other one is that it keeps what you think you’re learning or these,

00:32:59.345 –> 00:33:04.605
the Kool-Aid that you’ve drank or the scenarios you think you’ll face in check,

00:33:04.605 –> 00:33:07.605
even when you’re doing something as good as Krav, right?

00:33:08.105 –> 00:33:13.245
So for example, as one I harp on, I’ve harped on a few times over the years.

00:33:13.405 –> 00:33:18.725
I think one of the, and you know, Krav overall is great.

00:33:19.265 –> 00:33:24.825
But for me personally, dynamic knife attack defenses in Krav, forget about it.

00:33:24.945 –> 00:33:28.365
And I know some schools have worked to modify it and gone to,

00:33:28.505 –> 00:33:34.065
you know, more to two hands on and yada, yada, yada and whatever else.

00:33:34.065 –> 00:33:38.165
But once you’ve seen a few real knife attacks and how they go down,

00:33:38.345 –> 00:33:40.865
you’re like, that shit’s never going to work.

00:33:41.625 –> 00:33:45.005
That’s not to say it doesn’t have its place in learning and it definitely makes

00:33:45.005 –> 00:33:50.445
for a cool seminar and it gives you some sort of tool in your toolbox kit overall, right?

00:33:50.765 –> 00:33:54.425
But it’s not until you see how they generally happen that you go,

00:33:54.585 –> 00:33:59.145
hmm, I wonder, like I’ve thought this is what I needed to be doing,

00:33:59.305 –> 00:34:04.165
but I can see now I might need to learn more or there’s a good chance that it’s

00:34:04.165 –> 00:34:05.165
not going to work. Right.

00:34:05.405 –> 00:34:10.085
So I think, right. I think seeing that stuff serves those purposes for sure.

00:34:10.944 –> 00:34:14.784
Yeah, and I would totally support you on that because it’s, you know,

00:34:14.944 –> 00:34:17.544
I know exactly what you’re talking about from a crowd standpoint.

00:34:17.884 –> 00:34:23.764
And, you know, from a military mindset, I’m on patrol, I’m armed to the T,

00:34:24.024 –> 00:34:28.404
I expect you to pull a knife and come at me.

00:34:28.884 –> 00:34:32.244
Some of those dynamic knife defenses that are taught in the crowd tradition

00:34:32.244 –> 00:34:37.744
have some application in that specific context.

00:34:37.744 –> 00:34:42.524
X because I’m ready and I’m already, you know, kind of moving off the X and

00:34:42.524 –> 00:34:44.684
working left to bang and all that kind of stuff.

00:34:44.904 –> 00:34:49.244
And, but we, and we were like, we’re one of those schools that you’re talking about.

00:34:49.484 –> 00:34:54.164
I’ve had the privilege of training with Terry Trahan and who really gets knives

00:34:54.164 –> 00:34:55.384
and really gets stabbing people.

00:34:55.664 –> 00:34:59.544
And the U S our knife culture is a prison culture.

00:34:59.844 –> 00:35:03.344
We shank people. Yeah. That’s what we do. We’re a bunch of shankers.

00:35:05.004 –> 00:35:10.364
You know, and so we’ve altered just at our training center and we’ve added those,

00:35:10.364 –> 00:35:15.784
those dynamics in so that people have that reality check.

00:35:16.104 –> 00:35:20.084
And, and I think that’s, like you said, that’s really an, that’s an important

00:35:20.084 –> 00:35:24.824
aspect of training when it comes to just mindfulness of what we’re learning.

00:35:25.684 –> 00:35:32.064
Yeah. Mindfulness is a, is a overlooked word, I think, concept a lot of times.

00:35:33.344 –> 00:35:37.424
I’m just kind of looking down my list of things I wanted us to talk through.

00:35:37.684 –> 00:35:41.564
And again, some of this is just opinion or philosophical, whatever.

00:35:43.384 –> 00:35:48.304
And I can’t remember if it was one of your papers I was reading or where I got

00:35:48.304 –> 00:35:49.644
some of my thoughts from.

00:35:49.804 –> 00:35:55.504
But, you know, somewhere recently, and I know I’ve been taught in the past,

00:35:55.644 –> 00:35:57.664
you know, what’s your number one defense rule?

00:35:57.844 –> 00:36:03.284
What’s your number one defense? And, you know, some students will give kicks, punches, whatever.

00:36:03.544 –> 00:36:07.444
And, you know, I was I’ve worked with several instructors like,

00:36:07.544 –> 00:36:10.524
no, your number one defense is running and getting the hell out of there. Right.

00:36:11.824 –> 00:36:18.164
And Krav, and, you know, I think, and if I remember right, you could correct me if I’m wrong.

00:36:18.324 –> 00:36:21.624
I read a lot of stuff. But I think in your paper, you were saying,

00:36:21.804 –> 00:36:24.144
you know, for women, this is okay, right?

00:36:24.144 –> 00:36:29.104
It’s the man’s world that it’s kind of considered cowardice or not cool to back

00:36:29.104 –> 00:36:33.484
down and run off. So a lot of the systems are built around this mentality because

00:36:33.484 –> 00:36:34.804
it is a man’s world, right?

00:36:34.944 –> 00:36:38.624
Or at least perceived to some degrees.

00:36:39.124 –> 00:36:44.544
But, you know, the whole running away thing is kind of counterintuitive to Krav

00:36:44.544 –> 00:36:47.764
because, you know, you’re up on the balls of your feet, your back heels lifted

00:36:47.764 –> 00:36:50.424
up off the ground. You’re always supposed to be pressing forward,

00:36:50.544 –> 00:36:51.564
moving forward, moving forward.

00:36:51.724 –> 00:36:54.164
You’re never turning around and running away.

00:36:54.364 –> 00:37:01.444
So how do you reconcile it being okay to run away with Krav on a philosophical

00:37:01.444 –> 00:37:03.484
basis? Does that make sense?

00:37:04.444 –> 00:37:07.524
It does. That’s a really good question. Yeah. It’s that.

00:37:08.442 –> 00:37:15.442
And it’s a very, it’s super logical to look at the martial art combat fighting

00:37:15.442 –> 00:37:23.002
system world and identify it as, quote, a man’s world, because it’s all of this stuff, you know,

00:37:23.482 –> 00:37:26.462
whether it’s Kung Fu or it doesn’t matter.

00:37:26.922 –> 00:37:31.862
It all started as some fighting system somewhere to deal with combat.

00:37:32.142 –> 00:37:38.762
That’s why it’s there. so and you know historically you go back a thousand fifteen hundred years,

00:37:39.602 –> 00:37:42.722
majority of the people who went to war were the men so

00:37:42.722 –> 00:37:45.762
it’s not like it’s a you know down

00:37:45.762 –> 00:37:48.582
with patriarchy because this is the man’s world and kind

00:37:48.582 –> 00:37:53.822
of the conversation it’s just historically how we got here right so and with

00:37:53.822 –> 00:38:04.182
that historical conversation of the war mindset as you go to war to hold hold

00:38:04.182 –> 00:38:05.762
your ground, literally,

00:38:06.162 –> 00:38:08.982
for your king country and whatever,

00:38:09.402 –> 00:38:13.482
or to take back land or to take land if you’re, you know,

00:38:14.182 –> 00:38:17.662
trying to expand your horizons of the country.

00:38:18.602 –> 00:38:26.942
Yes. And, you know, to the idea of retreating, which is the antithesis of the

00:38:26.942 –> 00:38:33.102
mindset of war. So all of this, this is a logical progression and mindset.

00:38:34.562 –> 00:38:38.562
And Krav is that constant forward pressure, right? I love as you’re describing

00:38:38.562 –> 00:38:39.882
that pressure, go, go, go.

00:38:41.042 –> 00:38:47.842
And one of the things I have to give Al Yanla credit for is that he was pretty

00:38:47.842 –> 00:38:51.562
good about every once in a while, especially with the instructors when we would

00:38:51.562 –> 00:38:55.762
be at an update saying like, you know, like this,

00:38:56.202 –> 00:39:00.882
now you’re, and trying to bring that into the mindset.

00:39:01.142 –> 00:39:07.882
So I think philosophically, the distinction is there is a, there’s a difference between.

00:39:09.072 –> 00:39:13.772
And being in your backyard. If we’re, you know, get a wax metaphoric.

00:39:13.912 –> 00:39:16.052
I lost you for like two seconds.

00:39:16.232 –> 00:39:19.572
The connection went out. There’s a difference between what in your backyard? Sorry.

00:39:20.672 –> 00:39:24.592
There’s a difference between being on the battlefield and being in your backyard.

00:39:24.792 –> 00:39:27.832
Yes. Yeah. Or in your front street for that matter. Yeah.

00:39:28.952 –> 00:39:34.572
Yeah, basically. And the, again, I feel really privileged that our training

00:39:34.572 –> 00:39:38.512
center happens to be in the DMV area because I have a lot of,

00:39:39.072 –> 00:39:42.372
soldiers some have been active duty some of our retired and

00:39:42.372 –> 00:39:45.832
people who’ve been boots on the ground and have been been shot

00:39:45.832 –> 00:39:48.872
at and you know things blow up nearby who are

00:39:48.872 –> 00:39:51.772
who train with us and part of why some

00:39:51.772 –> 00:39:58.932
of them have said part of why they’re there on the mat with us is to is to civilianize

00:39:58.932 –> 00:40:04.432
themselves in a sense like to be able to not automatically flip the switch and

00:40:04.432 –> 00:40:09.272
be in combat mode in a grocery store. It doesn’t work.

00:40:10.272 –> 00:40:11.712
It’s not appropriate here.

00:40:14.412 –> 00:40:19.152
And that’s the distinction. Learn to fight. Learn to hold your ground.

00:40:19.492 –> 00:40:23.372
Learn to have good targeting. Learn to weaponize your body.

00:40:23.912 –> 00:40:29.332
Learn how structure and leverage and the meat puzzle that is the human body.

00:40:29.512 –> 00:40:33.132
Learn how it works. Learn how it can be taken apart so that you know how yours

00:40:33.132 –> 00:40:37.292
can be taken apart and how you can take apart somebody else’s and then remember

00:40:37.292 –> 00:40:44.552
that like it or not you live in a society that has a rule of law governing your

00:40:44.552 –> 00:40:48.372
choices around those behaviors and that comes to the party too,

00:40:49.231 –> 00:40:58.171
And that’s how we, I guess, how we blend it within our philosophy at the training center.

00:40:59.031 –> 00:41:02.491
Sure yeah i yeah the

00:41:02.491 –> 00:41:05.351
military things and interesting i hadn’t thought of that before and i’ve

00:41:05.351 –> 00:41:11.491
had the opportunity and been honored to be able to work with some of those former

00:41:11.491 –> 00:41:16.931
marines and i even got to work out some with a former navy seal once upon a

00:41:16.931 –> 00:41:20.951
time which was great he and i had a great relationship and he was just there

00:41:20.951 –> 00:41:24.951
simply to keep his wits about him and to and shape.

00:41:25.391 –> 00:41:30.771
And that’s, that was good enough. You know, there’s a lot of merit in that for sure.

00:41:31.871 –> 00:41:35.551
And I’m skipping all over the place here because I knew this would be like this.

00:41:35.691 –> 00:41:37.811
That’s okay though. 100%.

00:41:39.711 –> 00:41:43.711
So talking about legalities and kind of going back to, you know,

00:41:43.891 –> 00:41:47.751
self-defense, the term self-defense in and of itself is a legal term.

00:41:48.311 –> 00:41:54.331
And I think legalities of self-defense is another overlooked topic,

00:41:54.631 –> 00:41:58.471
subject matter, you know, and specifically Krav, again, it’s always go,

00:41:58.591 –> 00:42:01.931
go, go, you know, go home safe at all costs, do whatever.

00:42:02.911 –> 00:42:06.931
But are you seeing any, are you seeing anything?

00:42:07.531 –> 00:42:10.231
And I know, I think you touched upon this a little bit earlier,

00:42:10.231 –> 00:42:15.451
but are you seeing any changes relative to discussing legalities of self-defense

00:42:15.451 –> 00:42:20.331
in classes overall, along with the situational awareness or everything else

00:42:20.331 –> 00:42:22.051
that needs to be talked about?

00:42:23.107 –> 00:42:27.647
You know, I have a sampling bias problem in answering that question because

00:42:27.647 –> 00:42:32.027
my answer is yes, but I hang out with people for whom that’s important.

00:42:32.267 –> 00:42:35.247
Well, you have a hubby that’s LEO, right?

00:42:36.207 –> 00:42:39.787
Yeah, and part of the Violence Dynamics teaching team,

00:42:39.787 –> 00:42:45.887
which consists of a retired jail guard and a current active law enforcement

00:42:45.887 –> 00:42:51.367
slash SWAT officer and a guy who was a security officer and a bouncer.

00:42:51.367 –> 00:42:55.427
They don’t call them that in Canada, but, you know, for, you know, decades.

00:42:55.587 –> 00:43:01.267
So it’s like I hang out with people and have the privilege of working with people who really get that.

00:43:01.467 –> 00:43:04.487
So my sampling bias says, yes, I see a lot of it.

00:43:05.267 –> 00:43:09.287
I hang out with people for whom it’s important. But I do think it’s starting

00:43:09.287 –> 00:43:14.167
to begin to show up in more places.

00:43:14.807 –> 00:43:19.607
And I find an interest in it, if nothing else, elevating.

00:43:19.607 –> 00:43:23.667
One of the things with hope so yeah well

00:43:23.667 –> 00:43:26.947
right i mean we it’s and and i think that’s

00:43:26.947 –> 00:43:29.747
that’s really good news like this guy on the mat a

00:43:29.747 –> 00:43:32.607
couple weeks ago with us who’s like well when do i just get to hit the guy

00:43:32.607 –> 00:43:35.627
and then you know a couple weeks after

00:43:35.627 –> 00:43:38.387
that we have a ritual we do at the end of every

00:43:38.387 –> 00:43:42.027
class where people say like a quick sentence something they take away from that

00:43:42.027 –> 00:43:46.727
particular class or that training session sure and then you know a few weeks

00:43:46.727 –> 00:43:53.027
dial forward he’s like And I’m seeing things in so many different ways now than

00:43:53.027 –> 00:43:55.827
as a traditional martial artist,

00:43:55.827 –> 00:44:00.047
where you hit kick and punch until the other guy has dropped.

00:44:00.227 –> 00:44:03.487
And then, you know, you stand there and make sure he doesn’t get back up again.

00:44:03.887 –> 00:44:10.547
So I think it is the I think it’s beginning to really seep.

00:44:10.627 –> 00:44:12.767
And I don’t think it’s a tidal wave yet by any means.

00:44:12.867 –> 00:44:16.467
I think it’s beginning to seep into the training culture as a whole that we

00:44:16.467 –> 00:44:17.567
need to pay attention to that.

00:44:17.567 –> 00:44:23.227
Like, you know, it’s somebody, periodically, somebody on the mat will do something

00:44:23.227 –> 00:44:26.687
that if it’s somebody I know, and I know they’re just kind of screwing around,

00:44:26.967 –> 00:44:28.707
you know, roll my eyes at them.

00:44:28.807 –> 00:44:32.447
And then other times you get somebody who does something that is.

00:44:33.738 –> 00:44:36.938
Egregious, like, wow, buddy, you’re going to jail, just so you know,

00:44:37.298 –> 00:44:47.118
because the fight was over and you weren’t able to see it or acknowledge it.

00:44:47.978 –> 00:44:52.738
And those are all, luckily, those are all moments where we get to pause the

00:44:52.738 –> 00:44:54.818
tape and have a conversation about it.

00:44:54.898 –> 00:44:57.198
And some people hear it and I’ve got a few who don’t.

00:44:57.338 –> 00:45:01.118
Those don’t usually stay with us very long at our training center here in Northern

00:45:01.118 –> 00:45:04.678
Virginia because they don’t want to hear it. They’re going to hear it a lot.

00:45:05.038 –> 00:45:08.498
And then, you know, then we lose them. And it’s like, okay, got it.

00:45:08.758 –> 00:45:13.078
You want to go someplace and train where you can just bang and punch people

00:45:13.078 –> 00:45:16.178
and, you know, and go, okay.

00:45:16.818 –> 00:45:19.598
I can make recommendations because this isn’t going to be it.

00:45:19.738 –> 00:45:21.018
And this is not the place.

00:45:22.298 –> 00:45:27.018
Women. I know we talked about first question out of the gate is how do we get

00:45:27.018 –> 00:45:31.418
people in general, but certainly women more interested to the point where they’d

00:45:31.418 –> 00:45:32.538
want to come and learn more.

00:45:32.538 –> 00:45:38.578
Whether it’s the informational aspects, which I think could be even a good stopping

00:45:38.578 –> 00:45:39.738
point for a lot of people.

00:45:39.838 –> 00:45:43.578
You know, if you avoid most everything, boom, there’s no reason to go to physical,

00:45:43.898 –> 00:45:46.598
much less tools like firearms or otherwise.

00:45:47.778 –> 00:45:50.158
What do you think the biggest.

00:45:52.598 –> 00:45:56.318
I don’t know if I want to phrase it, obstacle in getting women into class,

00:45:56.318 –> 00:45:59.078
or what’s the biggest thing you have to

00:45:59.078 –> 00:46:01.878
overcome for them working with them when

00:46:01.878 –> 00:46:05.598
they get to school or they make that leap you know they’ve already made some

00:46:05.598 –> 00:46:10.558
major decisions for themselves just to decide to walk through the door once

00:46:10.558 –> 00:46:16.138
you get them in there what are your challenges and how and how do you get them

00:46:16.138 –> 00:46:21.738
to the point where you want to see them it’s a good question i think one of the things that help.

00:46:22.702 –> 00:46:27.362
Keep women training or encourage

00:46:27.362 –> 00:46:31.102
women to come back for another workshop is and

00:46:31.102 –> 00:46:34.462
this is a simple but not easy solution which

00:46:34.462 –> 00:46:38.042
is you get more women teaching just and

00:46:38.042 –> 00:46:40.962
and you know that means that takes time you have to the women who want

00:46:40.962 –> 00:46:43.902
to you know get the skill and they want to be able to teach

00:46:43.902 –> 00:46:47.162
and get out there and you know so they’ve got to do their own training but when

00:46:47.162 –> 00:46:50.902
when women walk into a class let’s

00:46:50.902 –> 00:46:53.882
say focus on women so like women’s self-defense and they

00:46:53.882 –> 00:46:57.242
walk in and they see two very fit

00:46:57.242 –> 00:47:00.262
guys standing at the front of the room who are going to tell them

00:47:00.262 –> 00:47:06.002
how to carry cabins you know it’s it’s uh there are some women are going to

00:47:06.002 –> 00:47:09.802
be 100 fine and not care at all about that and other women at a point are going

00:47:09.802 –> 00:47:17.662
to watch some of this and go but you’re twice my size and twice as strong and half as, as old as I am.

00:47:18.482 –> 00:47:24.762
And I’m questioning whether or not like I’m kidding that I can do what you’re doing.

00:47:24.962 –> 00:47:31.642
So some of it is get the, get women up there teaching so that they like,

00:47:31.642 –> 00:47:34.502
I’m, I live in the body you live in relatively speaking.

00:47:34.702 –> 00:47:39.162
And, you know, I have less bone density and I have less muscle.

00:47:39.322 –> 00:47:43.902
Even if I to a man who weighs 120 pounds and a woman who weighs 120 pounds,

00:47:44.022 –> 00:47:46.342
and they work out at the same weightlifting regimen,

00:47:46.582 –> 00:47:52.082
he is going to typically put on more muscle fiber than she will training session

00:47:52.082 –> 00:47:55.862
per training session because biologically he’s just put together a little bit differently.

00:47:56.142 –> 00:48:01.042
So having more women teach helps retention and helps getting through the door

00:48:01.042 –> 00:48:04.042
to be sure. And then I think it’s.

00:48:05.076 –> 00:48:09.716
It’s all about permission. So acknowledging that she’s smart,

00:48:10.236 –> 00:48:13.556
she gets the bullshit when she sees it, you know, it’s like,

00:48:13.556 –> 00:48:18.756
and, and acknowledging if you see her standing kind of in the back,

00:48:19.076 –> 00:48:22.516
you’ve got that shoulder cocked a little bit and the chin cocked to the side.

00:48:22.676 –> 00:48:25.216
The eyes are a little squinty. Don’t ignore it.

00:48:25.656 –> 00:48:28.416
You know, maybe not call it out in the middle of class, but once they start

00:48:28.416 –> 00:48:32.576
working on a rep, walk over to and go, Hey, I, you know, it looks like you’re,

00:48:32.576 –> 00:48:36.696
you’re questioning the skill or questioning what I was saying or whatever.

00:48:36.996 –> 00:48:40.096
And like, let’s fantastic. What are your doubts?

00:48:40.616 –> 00:48:49.716
Let’s talk about it. And so letting, letting disbelieve and walk it out and have a conversation,

00:48:49.876 –> 00:48:55.796
acknowledge their natural intelligence about the world that they live in or that we live in.

00:48:56.336 –> 00:49:00.116
And, you know, especially as a male instructor, that becomes critical.

00:49:00.116 –> 00:49:05.856
And then the flip side of that is we get to, as instructors,

00:49:05.996 –> 00:49:12.056
be very conscious of the intense levels of social conditioning men and women

00:49:12.056 –> 00:49:15.696
both have been marinating in since the second they were born.

00:49:15.896 –> 00:49:20.836
And for women, that social conditioning is still, even with young women,

00:49:21.016 –> 00:49:23.376
like I have several high school age girls who train with us.

00:49:23.376 –> 00:49:27.816
So even for them, they’ll say, we’re taught to be polite. We’re taught to be nice.

00:49:27.976 –> 00:49:32.976
We’re taught not to be rude. We’re taught, you know, it’s like, so if I’m asking you to.

00:49:34.064 –> 00:49:37.104
Go a little harder striking the pads of the person who’s holding the pads.

00:49:37.244 –> 00:49:40.284
It’s happened the other day, the mom and daughter team who are training with

00:49:40.284 –> 00:49:41.644
us and they’re, they’re, they’re

00:49:41.644 –> 00:49:46.604
really interesting pair and mom really wants the daughter to train.

00:49:46.824 –> 00:49:50.804
So mom’s kind of there to train with her and mom encourages her.

00:49:51.044 –> 00:49:54.644
And then, but neither one of them have a physical background and,

00:49:54.744 –> 00:49:59.344
and this little girl’s got some juice and, and not a lot of control yet.

00:49:59.664 –> 00:50:03.944
So she’s hit the pad and the pad mom’s structure is not super great.

00:50:04.064 –> 00:50:07.404
Mom’s holding the pad and the pad bounces backwards and

00:50:07.404 –> 00:50:13.144
mom hits herself in the face pad and and and this little 14 year old girl is

00:50:13.144 –> 00:50:17.464
like instantly cringing oh my god it’s so sorry i’m so sorry i’m so sorry and

00:50:17.464 –> 00:50:21.604
and mom is like i want to you can see her struggle with wanting to go no it’s

00:50:21.604 –> 00:50:25.464
fine but wait a minute you just sort of punched me in the face i’m not okay with that so.

00:50:27.044 –> 00:50:29.844
Giving permission for that struggle to be

00:50:29.844 –> 00:50:32.984
valid and real like this that was all all their

00:50:32.984 –> 00:50:37.744
social conditioning bubbling at the surface and playing

00:50:37.744 –> 00:50:41.744
with or screwing with their training and

00:50:41.744 –> 00:50:45.704
you know being able to address it

00:50:45.704 –> 00:50:50.124
i think is i would say constantly but i don’t mean like barraging people with

00:50:50.124 –> 00:50:54.484
it but just i call them drive-by comments like as an instructor you walk by

00:50:54.484 –> 00:50:58.764
and you go god i totally get like oh i just sort of smashed my mom in the face

00:50:58.764 –> 00:51:01.544
i have to ride home with her I wonder how that’s going to go.

00:51:01.684 –> 00:51:02.524
How’s that going to go over?

00:51:02.904 –> 00:51:07.704
You know, right? You’re just creating opportunities to create permission after

00:51:07.704 –> 00:51:13.584
permission after permission that it’s okay to violate all that social programming

00:51:13.584 –> 00:51:16.524
in these circumstances. And that’s huge.

00:51:16.824 –> 00:51:19.724
And I think that’s where a lot of women struggle to do.

00:51:20.849 –> 00:51:23.769
Come back to training or to continue with

00:51:23.769 –> 00:51:27.609
it at a point there’s there are comfort plateaus and

00:51:27.609 –> 00:51:30.869
to go past where i’m at now means really

00:51:30.869 –> 00:51:36.589
confronting some of the discomfort that i experienced emotionally psychologically

00:51:36.589 –> 00:51:40.849
and physically if i’m going to take it to the next level i think a mistake that

00:51:40.849 –> 00:51:47.929
a lot of people make in coaching other people training is that they don’t openly

00:51:47.929 –> 00:51:49.749
acknowledge their struggle. Yeah.

00:51:50.909 –> 00:51:55.309
Yeah, it would be nice if you could get students, especially,

00:51:55.309 –> 00:52:00.349
you know, women, girls, young girls, whatever, get to the point where they’re

00:52:00.349 –> 00:52:03.429
actually comfortable setting boundaries for themselves.

00:52:03.429 –> 00:52:07.709
And then when they happen to be at that gas station a little after dark because

00:52:07.709 –> 00:52:10.689
they were running late home from the office or wherever they’re doing,

00:52:11.509 –> 00:52:14.609
getting them to the point where they’re okay going, back up,

00:52:14.689 –> 00:52:16.769
motherfucker, and that being okay, right?

00:52:16.769 –> 00:52:22.529
Like, it’s okay getting them comfortable with that idea, flipping that coin

00:52:22.529 –> 00:52:27.689
around on you for just a minute, and also for purely selfish reasons as well.

00:52:27.829 –> 00:52:34.749
What would you tell men that they could be doing differently or better to encourage

00:52:34.749 –> 00:52:38.469
women or to work with women better in those settings?

00:52:39.249 –> 00:52:42.289
Specifically training, obviously. Yeah.

00:52:42.689 –> 00:52:48.689
Yeah. So from a training perspective, my first set of responses focused on the

00:52:48.689 –> 00:52:52.349
instructor, like guys, the men who are functioning as the instructor.

00:52:52.809 –> 00:52:55.669
And so that’s probably where my answers are going to trend.

00:52:56.329 –> 00:53:00.789
You know, I think acknowledging social conditioning, and that works both ways.

00:53:00.789 –> 00:53:06.749
So the social conditioning for men and the physical encounter is,

00:53:06.909 –> 00:53:11.489
you know, there’s that not currently cause it’s all the things that go sideways

00:53:11.489 –> 00:53:15.209
and boys tussle on the playground, but you know.

00:53:16.069 –> 00:53:20.029
And you know, the school, they throw a couple of punches and I roll around on

00:53:20.029 –> 00:53:23.929
the dirt and, you know, and their buddies are standing there, egging them on.

00:53:24.069 –> 00:53:29.629
And then eventually they get pulled apart and, you know, friends afterwards.

00:53:30.069 –> 00:53:37.149
And, And that’s social conditioning, but where the physical encounter follows

00:53:37.149 –> 00:53:39.049
a set of unwritten rules.

00:53:39.369 –> 00:53:41.369
And so it’s a fight.

00:53:41.909 –> 00:53:46.369
And a lot of, through the years in working with male instructors,

00:53:46.389 –> 00:53:52.029
when I was working in a position with one of the international organizations, is that.

00:53:53.158 –> 00:53:57.798
It’s really tough for male instructors to even,

00:53:58.578 –> 00:54:02.718
just as it’s tough for women to see their social conditioning,

00:54:02.918 –> 00:54:06.438
it’s tough for men to see their own social conditioning and recognize that they

00:54:06.438 –> 00:54:11.258
have a fight or a fighter’s mindset to the physical encounter,

00:54:11.438 –> 00:54:12.918
because that’s how they’ve been conditioned.

00:54:13.298 –> 00:54:18.198
And that for women in self-defense, even if we’re looking at through a martial

00:54:18.198 –> 00:54:23.038
arts lens, if she’s ever in a situation where it goes physical, this is not a fight.

00:54:23.158 –> 00:54:28.138
This is not following those rules because it’s an entirely different encounter.

00:54:28.398 –> 00:54:34.558
So, you know, for men to be able to acknowledge their own biases about physical

00:54:34.558 –> 00:54:38.658
encounters and then their biases about physical encounters of women is a huge,

00:54:38.658 –> 00:54:43.338
huge starting point that opens things up a lot for guys who are teaching who

00:54:43.338 –> 00:54:45.598
really want to effectively reach the women on the mat.

00:54:45.598 –> 00:54:51.858
And then, you know, obviously I’m not short on words or things to say on this

00:54:51.858 –> 00:54:58.338
one, but I think that the, I think the other thing that like if you are,

00:54:58.518 –> 00:55:01.238
if you’re a male instructor in a training center,

00:55:02.138 –> 00:55:07.818
look to the women who are on the mat who may either have, look like they have

00:55:07.818 –> 00:55:14.518
some talent for it or for whatever reason you feel like you could be an instructor and go talk to her.

00:55:14.518 –> 00:55:17.438
Create the invitation get the women.

00:55:18.518 –> 00:55:22.878
Create the invite to have you ever thought about being an instructor you’d be

00:55:22.878 –> 00:55:27.998
really good at it I’d like to talk to you about it and get more women teaching,

00:55:28.918 –> 00:55:33.738
that’s a huge aspect that he can do as an instructor and then,

00:55:34.613 –> 00:55:41.473
to also just be, how do I say this? Everything’s going to go to the social conditioning thing.

00:55:41.573 –> 00:55:45.213
So maybe the best way to do it is give some examples of kind of like what not to do.

00:55:47.473 –> 00:55:53.253
So I watched a video sometime in the last like probably 24 months of a,

00:55:54.433 –> 00:55:57.753
you know, some of the big names out there in the different martial arts industries.

00:55:57.833 –> 00:56:01.393
So, you know, for example, like Grapplers and BJJ. And I was watching a video

00:56:01.393 –> 00:56:07.433
of one of the bigger name BJJ instructor kind of systems.

00:56:07.713 –> 00:56:11.453
And he’s standing on the mat. There’s obviously an instructional video.

00:56:11.673 –> 00:56:15.533
And he’s like, you know, so-and-so points to his female counterpart is going

00:56:15.533 –> 00:56:17.993
to be teaching X, Y, and Z skill today.

00:56:18.893 –> 00:56:22.733
And then he goes on and spends about, I don’t know, five to ten minutes talking

00:56:22.733 –> 00:56:27.133
about the technique and what they’re going to do and how it’s going to go and blah, blah, blah.

00:56:27.133 –> 00:56:36.613
And then they go to the demo and she’s demoing the technique and he’s still explaining it.

00:56:37.133 –> 00:56:41.073
And then she says a few things and then she says a few things more and they

00:56:41.073 –> 00:56:43.633
get a short video. They get to the end and he wraps it up.

00:56:43.973 –> 00:56:46.773
So he says at the beginning, I was really excited about this.

00:56:46.893 –> 00:56:50.513
He’s like, someone says I’m going to teach this. I’m like, cool. Awesome. She didn’t.

00:56:51.193 –> 00:56:56.833
She didn’t. He did it. he did all the teaching and he didn’t,

00:56:56.913 –> 00:56:59.513
he wasn’t doing it to be an ass. He wasn’t doing it.

00:56:59.693 –> 00:57:02.113
He, it just, it’s just the way it goes.

00:57:03.153 –> 00:57:08.913
It’s just the way it goes. Right. And, and that’s that unconscious mindset and

00:57:08.913 –> 00:57:13.353
bias and social conditioning that took him over.

00:57:14.013 –> 00:57:16.673
So that like, Hey, she’s going to teach this, but I’m actually the one going

00:57:16.673 –> 00:57:20.013
to, who’s actually teaching it. And technically another great example.

00:57:20.313 –> 00:57:24.633
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, she was there. Yeah. that’s about it in the room

00:57:24.633 –> 00:57:34.093
and and another so a colleague who’s developing or developing some women’s self-defense

00:57:34.093 –> 00:57:39.953
training with one of her instructors in traditional martial arts and she.

00:57:40.879 –> 00:57:46.019
And they have made a decision, good, bad, right, wrong, or otherwise.

00:57:46.519 –> 00:57:50.299
You know, I have a judgment about it, but it’s not my place to judge what they do. Sure.

00:57:50.539 –> 00:57:53.459
That they’re going to split, you know, they’re splitting the duties,

00:57:53.659 –> 00:57:54.479
which is good. Everybody knows

00:57:54.479 –> 00:57:56.539
what they’re doing. You can hone in what you’re going to be teaching.

00:57:57.259 –> 00:58:01.339
But they split them down straight down the line of all the prevention,

00:58:01.699 –> 00:58:05.639
situation awareness, threat assessment, de-escalation, blah,

00:58:05.719 –> 00:58:07.839
blah, blah. That’s all hers to teach.

00:58:08.439 –> 00:58:11.979
He’s teaching all this physical stuff and

00:58:11.979 –> 00:58:15.299
i had a thing to say about that when

00:58:15.299 –> 00:58:17.979
she and i were talking about this some time ago yeah and her

00:58:17.979 –> 00:58:20.879
comment was he said and he’s

00:58:20.879 –> 00:58:24.019
he’s he’s a younger guy so it’s not like my generation

00:58:24.019 –> 00:58:27.519
of people who i expect a little bit more gender bias

00:58:27.519 –> 00:58:30.159
out of so the younger guy says well i just

00:58:30.159 –> 00:58:33.179
i don’t like the way it looks if you’re throwing

00:58:33.179 –> 00:58:37.559
me around on the mat and i’m

00:58:37.559 –> 00:58:40.399
like wow oh chewing my lip i’m

00:58:40.399 –> 00:58:43.359
like oh geez yeah because

00:58:43.359 –> 00:58:50.379
and again that’s his you know he’s his bias is so strong there a little bit

00:58:50.379 –> 00:58:56.399
of ego you know everything a little bit i don’t know him so yeah be careful

00:58:56.399 –> 00:58:59.879
about how hard i throw him under a bus because i don’t know him And I know he’s

00:58:59.879 –> 00:59:02.319
probably a really good guy, but, you know,

00:59:02.459 –> 00:59:06.259
and, and so it’s these, these little stories of things that keep popping up where it’s like, well,

00:59:06.479 –> 00:59:10.979
she should totally be throwing you around on the mat in front of a room full of women. Yeah.

00:59:11.999 –> 00:59:15.959
100%. 100%. That’s what should be happening. You should be her assistant.

00:59:16.279 –> 00:59:20.299
Yep. Sell that all day long. Not, not the other way around.

00:59:20.299 –> 00:59:26.979
And so I think male instructors who want to reach women and women will prevent,

00:59:27.379 –> 00:59:32.699
knock your lights out because the reality is it’s still in my perfect world.

00:59:32.979 –> 00:59:40.459
Women teach women teach women because we don’t have enough women doing it yet. Yeah. But.

00:59:41.537 –> 00:59:45.157
That to alter the reality. And so if we say that we, you know,

00:59:45.217 –> 00:59:48.657
we, we, we’re only going to focus on training up women to be self-defense instructors,

00:59:48.997 –> 00:59:53.317
which is certainly one of our goals in 500 Rising is to get more women to that place.

00:59:53.877 –> 00:59:58.897
If I say we’re not going to work with the men, then I cut off the majority of

00:59:58.897 –> 01:00:02.777
the people who are teaching self-defense and that’s not with them either.

01:00:03.037 –> 01:00:07.497
So So I think being aware that you,

01:00:07.837 –> 01:00:13.477
and this is a bit meta level, maybe philosophical stuff is that as a,

01:00:13.577 –> 01:00:17.217
like as a female instructor on the mat with a bunch of guys on the mat,

01:00:17.397 –> 01:00:19.557
I don’t know what it’s like to walk around in their body.

01:00:19.837 –> 01:00:23.757
I have no idea what it’s like to be six foot three. I got nothing.

01:00:26.037 –> 01:00:32.877
It’s just, and I never will. I just, it’s not, I’ve never been a six foot three, 220 pound guy.

01:00:33.177 –> 01:00:43.557
I just haven’t. And so I have to let my male students be the experts on their life experience.

01:00:44.457 –> 01:00:48.877
And flipping that, the male instructors need to let their female students be

01:00:48.877 –> 01:00:50.677
the experts on what it’s like to be female.

01:00:52.037 –> 01:00:55.777
Well, you know, after we’ve talked about all this, you know,

01:00:55.897 –> 01:01:01.217
what comes to my mind is the short of it is, is that male instructors,

01:01:01.617 –> 01:01:05.697
if you’re teaching, going to teach self-defense to anything other than a bunch

01:01:05.697 –> 01:01:12.057
of, you know, testosterone-driven men, and of course there’s a lot of schools that do that, right?

01:01:12.717 –> 01:01:16.037
MMA, whatever. Not that all are, but you know what I mean.

01:01:16.297 –> 01:01:22.777
They have a responsibility to take extra care to reach out and connect with

01:01:22.777 –> 01:01:25.797
their female students as much as any other.

01:01:26.926 –> 01:01:31.306
Yeah, I think so. I mean, that’s my bias. I think so.

01:01:31.606 –> 01:01:35.966
I also, you know, we’re self-selecting humans.

01:01:36.146 –> 01:01:43.486
And if you have a ball-to-the-wall MMA program where people are just,

01:01:43.606 –> 01:01:49.326
everybody’s gearing to get in the ring, then you’re going to draw the women

01:01:49.326 –> 01:01:51.126
who are interested in that level of fighting.

01:01:51.346 –> 01:01:53.866
Sure. And you’re not going to draw the ones who aren’t.

01:01:54.146 –> 01:01:58.106
And if you’re cool with that, then be cool with that.

01:01:58.266 –> 01:02:02.506
Know what you’re good at and be that.

01:02:02.606 –> 01:02:07.526
But if you’re an MMA school who wants to teach self-defense, go get some education.

01:02:08.706 –> 01:02:14.126
Because not too long ago, there was a big to-do in some social media platform

01:02:14.126 –> 01:02:16.426
about some self-defense stuff.

01:02:16.926 –> 01:02:19.726
Somebody pulled somebody else’s video and gone, this is shit.

01:02:19.906 –> 01:02:21.066
Look at this. It’s the garbage.

01:02:21.846 –> 01:02:25.686
And a bunch of MMA fighters chimed

01:02:25.686 –> 01:02:28.766
in to support this is garbage this would

01:02:28.766 –> 01:02:31.926
never work in the ring i’m like because it’s

01:02:31.926 –> 01:02:36.206
not designed for the ring right it’s

01:02:36.206 –> 01:02:44.626
not the point so if that’s who you are good on you if you want to reach people

01:02:44.626 –> 01:02:49.526
who aren’t going to self-select to your approach to training and go get go go

01:02:49.526 –> 01:02:52.206
back to school yeah Yeah.

01:02:53.006 –> 01:02:59.326
I think more emphasis needs to be put on the fact that for stuff like you’re

01:02:59.326 –> 01:03:05.086
doing and others, you know, women are going to make the big leap, big decision,

01:03:05.466 –> 01:03:11.666
the choice to come and learn to train for whatever period of time they’re there for.

01:03:11.686 –> 01:03:16.766
And you have an opportunity to help them and connect with them like you would

01:03:16.766 –> 01:03:20.066
any other student, male, male student, I should say.

01:03:20.686 –> 01:03:26.426
So if you need extra education to help you understand the differences to help

01:03:26.426 –> 01:03:30.106
facilitate that, then by all means, that should be part of your educational lineup.

01:03:30.886 –> 01:03:34.306
Just a couple more questions here. And forgive me for this one,

01:03:34.326 –> 01:03:39.586
because I think you typed it up from your phone and you might have been driving

01:03:39.586 –> 01:03:44.106
or riding on the back of a motorcycle or something. I’m not sure.

01:03:44.286 –> 01:03:47.466
And you said, apologize for the brevity in this spelling. So I was like,

01:03:47.546 –> 01:03:52.926
oh, here we go. But you wanted to talk about how men could better authentically

01:03:52.926 –> 01:03:55.606
collaborate to make changes.

01:03:56.406 –> 01:04:00.606
And so can you expound about that? Because I know you wanted to talk about this

01:04:00.606 –> 01:04:01.766
and I want to do it justice.

01:04:03.206 –> 01:04:10.426
Yeah. So I think pulling out of just the instructor lens and just guys in general, most students,

01:04:11.047 –> 01:04:16.247
So there’s, you know, I love the conversation, and I say this both authentically

01:04:16.247 –> 01:04:17.487
and somewhat sarcastically,

01:04:18.227 –> 01:04:25.027
of where, you know, the current cultural song, siren song is,

01:04:25.247 –> 01:04:28.327
you know, don’t teach women how to fight, i.e. self-defense,

01:04:28.567 –> 01:04:29.607
teach men how not to write.

01:04:31.527 –> 01:04:37.467
So certainly cultural change is always wanted in me.

01:04:37.467 –> 01:04:46.547
And the good guys, so it’s not that like guys don’t know that it’s wrong.

01:04:47.627 –> 01:04:54.167
Like, you know, like, you know, it’s not that that’s a mystery that forced sexual

01:04:54.167 –> 01:04:58.247
interaction is, you know, like, oh, I didn’t know that that was a bad thing.

01:04:58.347 –> 01:05:00.087
Are you telling me that’s taboo? Really?

01:05:01.107 –> 01:05:06.427
Yeah, right? It’s a surprise. It’s just they don’t care. So when you have people

01:05:06.427 –> 01:05:10.727
who are going to violate somebody else’s body from a sexual standpoint,

01:05:11.387 –> 01:05:13.967
it’s not that they don’t know that it’s wrong. They just don’t care.

01:05:14.987 –> 01:05:21.987
So teaching men not to rape is kind of not going to be the changing dynamic, but cultural change is.

01:05:23.107 –> 01:05:28.247
One thing that, again, failing up years ago, 8-10 years ago,

01:05:28.427 –> 01:05:32.467
I was doing a foundation seminar thing around about eight weeks,

01:05:32.587 –> 01:05:35.987
and mixed men and women in the class, and there was people in there that I knew.

01:05:36.627 –> 01:05:40.107
And one of them was a mom, a single mom, three boys.

01:05:40.667 –> 01:05:44.427
Oldest kid was like a junior, senior in high school, footballer,

01:05:44.647 –> 01:05:45.767
you know, just big, strong guy.

01:05:46.207 –> 01:05:50.087
And we’d been, she’d gone home and was practicing the stuff.

01:05:50.407 –> 01:05:54.207
And so he, he was like, well, you know, okay, I’ll practice with you.

01:05:54.527 –> 01:05:58.387
And he, whatever the whole, it was probably like a bear hug or something like

01:05:58.387 –> 01:06:02.367
that. He grabbed her bigger, stronger, taller, everything than she is.

01:06:02.487 –> 01:06:05.347
And he is like, got her like hard got

01:06:05.347 –> 01:06:08.667
her and the technique failed predictably

01:06:08.667 –> 01:06:12.287
because it’s her kid she’s not

01:06:12.287 –> 01:06:18.747
going to nail him so hard in the balls that he’s puking yeah she’s not gonna

01:06:18.747 –> 01:06:25.027
bloody his nose with an elbow it’s her kid right and but she came so he said

01:06:25.027 –> 01:06:31.587
what you’re learning doesn’t work mom and she came back to class very unsteady.

01:06:32.887 –> 01:06:36.927
Not believing that what she was learning wouldn’t work, she interpreted it as,

01:06:37.087 –> 01:06:43.107
I can’t learn to do this effectively. I’m not capable. And.

01:06:43.950 –> 01:06:49.390
So we started a policy 10 years, you know, following on from that of telling

01:06:49.390 –> 01:06:51.390
students in seminar stuff.

01:06:51.510 –> 01:06:54.590
So I’m getting to that, how this relates to my thing here in a second. Bear with me.

01:06:55.110 –> 01:06:58.790
Like you’re getting, when you go home, if you go home and you’re going to try

01:06:58.790 –> 01:07:01.770
and practice this stuff, and this is the thing that we say to the women,

01:07:01.930 –> 01:07:03.390
like you’re going to go home and practice this stuff.

01:07:03.650 –> 01:07:09.730
The person you’re asking is somebody you’re not, you’re going to be super hesitant

01:07:09.730 –> 01:07:12.790
to actually just haul up and really hurt them.

01:07:12.790 –> 01:07:16.190
So tell your male training

01:07:16.190 –> 01:07:19.110
partner you you have two options and

01:07:19.110 –> 01:07:21.850
therefore they have two options they can feed you the

01:07:21.850 –> 01:07:25.230
technique the attack so you can learn you can

01:07:25.230 –> 01:07:28.130
learn you can practice yeah you can find what

01:07:28.130 –> 01:07:31.350
you don’t know yet or you they

01:07:31.350 –> 01:07:35.030
can feed you the technique in a way that you have to execute the

01:07:35.030 –> 01:07:37.790
defense that’s it you got two options you

01:07:37.790 –> 01:07:41.110
got two options yeah and you

01:07:41.110 –> 01:07:44.490
know so the flip side of that is to guys like if you have

01:07:44.490 –> 01:07:47.610
women you know young women junior high

01:07:47.610 –> 01:07:50.690
up whatever girls in your life who who do

01:07:50.690 –> 01:07:54.510
take the mat who go to a self-defense seminar this is

01:07:54.510 –> 01:07:58.370
this is going to sound very crass don’t be a dick when they come home right

01:07:58.370 –> 01:08:02.610
you know like yeah you got nothing to prove yeah you don’t have anything to

01:08:02.610 –> 01:08:06.470
prove and and a lot of and what i’ve learned since i said that once and somebody

01:08:06.470 –> 01:08:11.290
kind of backhanded me a little bit verbally and said look, it’s not that I was trying to be an asshole.

01:08:11.530 –> 01:08:14.430
I just really, really want her to be able to be safe.

01:08:14.590 –> 01:08:19.350
So I was trying to give her something authentic to work with and like,

01:08:19.450 –> 01:08:23.390
all right, remember who you are to her, you know?

01:08:24.690 –> 01:08:29.950
So be, be mindful of the women in your life who are, who choose to do this,

01:08:30.070 –> 01:08:32.690
encourage the heck out of it. First of all, like go baby, go.

01:08:33.090 –> 01:08:37.190
If you’re, if this is a spouse or a partner offer to take care of the kids,

01:08:37.190 –> 01:08:44.610
offer to do the grocery shopping, offer to do whatever she might otherwise feel like she’s abandoning.

01:08:45.350 –> 01:08:51.250
If I go to class tonight and X doesn’t happen, the kids are going to eat McDonald’s again.

01:08:52.310 –> 01:08:56.430
Say, this is important for the next six to eight months, year or whatever that

01:08:56.430 –> 01:08:57.610
you’re going to be doing this training.

01:08:58.130 –> 01:09:01.910
You tell me what night you’re going to be in class and I got it.

01:09:02.050 –> 01:09:03.830
I got your back. I’ve got it.

01:09:04.290 –> 01:09:09.730
I think that’s something that the men over the years that I’ve talked to,

01:09:09.890 –> 01:09:12.850
they’re like, well, of course. I’m like, yes, but did you say that to her?

01:09:13.590 –> 01:09:17.750
Because if you don’t say it, she’s still going to carry that sense of duty and

01:09:17.750 –> 01:09:20.630
responsibility of, well, I’m not the one who’s doing it, and it’s kind of,

01:09:20.750 –> 01:09:24.310
he’s taking it on, but it isn’t, he’s doing it because he kind of has to,

01:09:24.470 –> 01:09:28.070
as opposed to, like, he’s volunteering to do this.

01:09:28.530 –> 01:09:32.530
So I think there are a lot of ways in, at the relationship level,

01:09:32.570 –> 01:09:36.250
that the men can support the women in their lives to go get to the training

01:09:36.250 –> 01:09:39.910
and get it to the level that they can own it. Sure.

01:09:40.899 –> 01:09:44.819
Yeah, and we have to keep in mind, too, just on a not male-female issue,

01:09:44.979 –> 01:09:48.739
but, you know, your partner is the most important person in class,

01:09:48.799 –> 01:09:50.619
right? It’s not your opponent. It’s your partner.

01:09:51.059 –> 01:09:55.559
So you need to remember that they’re working with you as much as you should be working with them.

01:09:55.639 –> 01:10:01.659
And so it may have been inexperience on her son’s part or him just trying to

01:10:01.659 –> 01:10:03.419
make a point. Who only knows?

01:10:03.699 –> 01:10:07.719
But, you know, there’s some give and take there. And if you want to go hard, we’ll go hard, right?

01:10:09.259 –> 01:10:12.939
Right. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and that goes to training on the mat

01:10:12.939 –> 01:10:14.299
between men and women as well.

01:10:14.439 –> 01:10:19.019
I’ve had guys, you know, I’ve walked by guys partnered with women and kind of,

01:10:19.099 –> 01:10:22.879
you know, tapped them on the shoulder and said something kind of funny about

01:10:22.879 –> 01:10:26.899
how they’re holding back. Or you can see that hesitancy.

01:10:27.739 –> 01:10:30.599
And I’m like, look, you’re not doing her any favors. All your teeth,

01:10:30.779 –> 01:10:35.559
you know, like this is not she’s not here for somebody to be nice to her.

01:10:35.919 –> 01:10:38.439
You know, like that’s not why she’s here.

01:10:39.019 –> 01:10:43.399
So you’re not a good training partner right now, even though you think you’re trying to be one.

01:10:43.679 –> 01:10:49.839
Some of the roughest, hardest partners I’ve had are some of the balls out females

01:10:49.839 –> 01:10:52.579
in class. Some of them go hard.

01:10:53.239 –> 01:10:56.559
I’ve been on the receiving end of it. And it’s great when you see it.

01:10:57.659 –> 01:11:03.159
One last question. I’m going to flip it around on you if I haven’t already done

01:11:03.159 –> 01:11:10.099
that yet during this time. In one or two sentences, what are your takeaways from our time together?

01:11:11.019 –> 01:11:15.439
You said you did that in class. I had to do it. Yes, I do.

01:11:15.759 –> 01:11:25.299
Of course, of course. Well, it’s always reassuring to have a conversation with somebody who gets this.

01:11:25.659 –> 01:11:29.899
And that’s certainly been my experience with you. It’s a big picture of self-defense.

01:11:31.259 –> 01:11:37.879
And because the more people that we meet who get it, the more we know that we’re

01:11:37.879 –> 01:11:42.079
making, you know, like these changes and differences are happening out there

01:11:42.079 –> 01:11:44.139
that are wanted and needed and,

01:11:45.184 –> 01:11:48.324
I have another takeaway from this. I’m trying to figure out how to articulate

01:11:48.324 –> 01:11:50.544
it. Oh, no, just let it rip.

01:11:51.424 –> 01:11:58.824
Yeah, I think that. I’m probably the least articulate person you’ll meet, so I’ve got no problem.

01:12:00.664 –> 01:12:03.664
It’s good not to have an answer sometimes.

01:12:04.804 –> 01:12:08.624
And, like, you know, you did that classic question of how do we get more people

01:12:08.624 –> 01:12:12.644
who, you know, like women in particular, how do we get more women on the mat?

01:12:12.804 –> 01:12:15.284
And, you know, I get asked that question all the time. and I think I’m going

01:12:15.284 –> 01:12:17.124
to have an answer every time and every time I don’t.

01:12:17.724 –> 01:12:23.984
It’s good to not have an answer because it makes me think.

01:12:24.544 –> 01:12:27.964
And it’s important we can all, and I’m certainly not an exception,

01:12:28.524 –> 01:12:30.364
go complacent in what we think we know.

01:12:31.004 –> 01:12:36.124
Yeah. No, that’s a really good point for sure. How can people find you?

01:12:36.344 –> 01:12:40.084
How can people get a hold of you, learn more, come see you, whatever?

01:12:41.124 –> 01:12:46.084
I’m fairly easy to find on the interweb, unfortunately.

01:12:47.464 –> 01:12:53.724
All over the place. That’s right. Yeah. So the direct routes are 500rising.com.

01:12:53.884 –> 01:13:01.844
That’s the website for the 500 Rising project, which is our big push in training

01:13:01.844 –> 01:13:05.844
women to become instructors on both the physical and the prevention side and

01:13:05.844 –> 01:13:09.324
getting guys trained in that material as well.

01:13:09.324 –> 01:13:13.284
So you can get me through the 500rising.com website. That’s kind of an easy one to remember.

01:13:13.804 –> 01:13:19.564
You can find me through our training center as well, which is coreselfdefense.com.

01:13:19.684 –> 01:13:20.984
And core is spelled with a K.

01:13:23.204 –> 01:13:28.704
And my information is there. You can find me on Facebook. Good old Facebook.

01:13:29.964 –> 01:13:36.224
Yeah. And if you go looking for me, you’re also going to probably find the stuff.

01:13:36.284 –> 01:13:38.664
If you dig deep enough, you’re going to find people who don’t like me.

01:13:39.584 –> 01:13:42.284
Which is cool, too. Read up on that, too.

01:13:43.544 –> 01:13:46.264
It’s a big world. Everyone’s got an opinion, right?

01:13:48.424 –> 01:13:52.184
Well, this has been awesome. I’ve enjoyed it. So thanks so much for doing this.

01:13:52.304 –> 01:13:54.464
Thanks for your time, taking time out of your busy schedule.

01:13:55.724 –> 01:13:58.564
Hopefully you’ve enjoyed it as much as I have. Good talk, for sure.

01:13:59.624 –> 01:14:02.644
Yeah, it’s been a great conversation. Thanks so much.

01:14:09.324 –> 01:14:09.344
Bye.

01:14:09.680 –> 01:14:22.732
Music.