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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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I’m your host, Jim O’Brien.

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Hey, hey, and welcome back. This episode, we’re going to be talking about something.

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I’m not sure exactly what to title it yet. I’ve been struggling with that.

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I want to talk about basically all the phases of a fight,

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of a self-defense situation, of being confronted, whether it’s intent of doing

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bodily harm or killing you or even social violence, just getting into a fight.

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And before we get into all of that, and again, I don’t know what I’m going to

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title this yet, but I want to talk about all of this today.

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So bear with us. We’ll get through it. And I hope you’ll have some good takeaways.

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But before we get started, I have to acknowledge and give my buddy credit for this.

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He’s been, I won’t say bugging me, but let’s just say for some time now,

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if not a couple of years or better, my very good friend, Tony,

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who I actually graduated high school with back in the day, we met in 10th grade.

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I’m not going to tell you how long ago that was, but suffice it to say,

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he and I have been friends for a very long time.

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And we’ve, you know, shared a lot of stories and talked through a lot of different

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things In the personal safety space and self-defense and martial arts We’ve

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had a lot of conversations between the two of us over the years,

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certainly But one of the questions that he asked me, which is the genesis of

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this particular podcast And he couldn’t do this with me He’s a very busy boy,

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schedules constantly got him tied up But anyway, I told him I would do this

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on his behalf So thank you, Tony, for this,

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But his question that he’s asked me a number of times over the years,

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at least three or four, is how do you know when it’s time to go?

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How do you know when it’s time to go? Meaning by to go, that’s kind of guy speak, right?

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It’s how do you know when to throw that first punch?

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How do you know when it’s time you need to be getting out of there?

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But specifically, how do you know when it’s your turn to throw the first punch,

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kick, whatever, you know, things about to go down.

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And, you know, you may or may not have heard this before, but a lot of the times

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he who gets the first shot in wins, right? Right.

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But Tony’s always asked me, you know, how do you know when it’s time to go?

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And I thought about that and I’ve kind of put off having the discussion because it’s multifaceted.

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And this is why in and of itself, it’s very easy to answer when to go.

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There’s some telltale signs.

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And of course, in the moment, you are ultimately responsible for you and your actions.

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You have to still make, even in the heat of the moment, you still have to make

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good decisions, but you are responsible.

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But, you know, there are some telltale signs, some indicators that the aggressor

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or the person that you’re dealing with is giving you to let you know that things

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might be getting ready to go down.

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And we don’t even have to talk about tools coming out, knives coming out or guns talking out.

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We’re just generally talking about body languages and behaviors and actions

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that the other person is exhibiting that’s probably going to be a pretty good

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indicator for you if you’re paying attention.

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So I told Tony, I said, well, if we did a podcast on that, it would be very short.

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There’s a pretty good list of things that already exist. You can go look up

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and it’ll tell you things to be on the lookout for and things you need to be

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noting and paying attention to.

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Should you find someone in your personal space and or just outside your personal

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space and you feel like things are getting ready to go down?

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That’s a very short conversation. what we

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really need to talk about are all the things that

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have gone wrong to get you up to that point

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and it’s not that you’ve done something wrong necessarily but

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there’s a lot of things that have gone wrong or that were missing that allowed

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you to find yourself in a situation where you’ve got a you know maybe they’re

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angry maybe they’re hopped up on drugs maybe they’re have some mental issues going on.

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Maybe they’re a predator that’s been following you some time.

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You can’t quite place them. Whatever the reason is that they’re in your personal

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space or very close to you and have a beef with you seemingly.

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There’s a lot of things that go down. And so I told him, I said,

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those are the things that we really need to be talking about.

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The good news is, is that we’ve covered a few of them or most of them over the

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course of our other podcasts. And I recommend you going back and listening to those.

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In fact, I’ll tell you now, we’re going to be talking about situational awareness today.

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But we talked about that with Kelly Serra of the Diamond Arrow Group back at

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podcast 25, Situational Awareness and More.

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We talked about de-escalation with Randy King of Randy King Live back in podcast 40.

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And then one that I have a near and dear spot for in my heart is thinking through scenarios and what if.

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Ask yourself, what would you do in a given situation, right? create whatever it is.

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And that podcast is number 26. So podcast 25, 26, and then 40,

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I think will all dovetail nicely into this topic today.

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And it’s those early things that maybe have gone wrong or something isn’t right

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that’s allowed us to find ourselves in a bad situation with someone in or near

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our personal space that appears to be potentially wanting to start a fight or do us harm of some sort.

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And then I told Tony, I said, you know, the other thing that we need to think

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through is not just the before stuff and how so important that is,

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but we also need to talk about some things you need to consider in the aftermath,

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because that’s just as important,

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whether it’s rendering the person aid if you’ve hurt them,

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it’s calling 911, it’s, you know, preparing for a legal battle potentially,

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and that’s something that a lot of folks I don’t think are thinking about.

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And not saying that you should or that you would or even could in the moment,

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but we’re going to talk about all of these different phases.

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But the genesis of it all is how do I know when it’s time to go?

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And while that sounds like a macho fighting thing, it’s really appropriate for

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everyone. So don’t think this has a narrow audience.

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Before we get into it, there was a quote. And if you follow us on Instagram,

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you’ve probably seen it more recently. But it’s a quote that Sun Tzu said,

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and I’m almost certain it came from his book, The Art of War.

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It seems like most every quote we see from Sun Tzu comes from his book, The Art of War.

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But I thought it was very appropriate to what we were going to talk about in this episode.

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His quote is, he will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

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I’m going to read that one more time. He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

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And I’ve got another quote I’ll share with you towards the end of the podcast,

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but I thought that was a great one to start with.

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And, you know, it’s certainly a lesson that I’ve learned or I think that I’ve

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learned over the years of training, what little bit of training I’ve done over the years.

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Is that the more you know about fighting, the less you want to get into a fight.

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And I think there’s not a truer statement to be made.

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So how do we know when it’s time to go?

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Well, let’s talk about some things that might have gone amiss.

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You may have missed out on or just didn’t go the way they might have,

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should have to begin with.

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And as I mentioned, we’ve talked about these before, and you can go back and

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listen to, what is it, did I tell you?

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Podcast 25 for a little bit deeper dive into situational awareness.

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But what is situational awareness? We hear so much about it in the personal

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safety space. It’s almost ad nauseum, and sometimes there’s better descriptions for it than ever.

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And then people think it’s about becoming paranoid, you know,

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anytime you’re outside your home. And that’s simply just not the case.

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The, the, I don’t know, I don’t claim that it’s an original definition,

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but the simplest definition.

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Situational awareness is just simply paying attention to what’s going on around

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you and who’s around you.

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That’s as simple as it is. And if we take that a step further,

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it’s recognizing anomalies.

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It’s recognizing things that don’t seem normal or that are out of place.

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So I’m in an environment, whether it’s the grocery store, a restaurant,

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a school, since schools keep coming up in the news for different bad things,

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it’s simply paying attention.

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Who’s coming, who’s going, what they’re wearing, what they look like. Are they fidgeting?

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Do they seem out of place? Are they sweating?

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Are they wearing a trench coat on a 95-degree summer heat day?

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Whatever it may be, it’s about paying attention to our surroundings when we’re

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out and about. And this applies to our homes, too.

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Now, when we’re in our homes, not so much, but certainly when we’re outside,

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whether it’s doing yard work, I mean, I have to make myself think about paying

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attention to those around me and because I wear hearing protection when I’m

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mowing my yard, for example.

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So, but it’s really about getting in the habit of simply taking note of things

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that are going on around you.

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You know, you’ve lived in your neighborhood for however long you have.

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You’ve probably already subconsciously are aware of.

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Of what cars drive past your driveway that live further back in or deeper in

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the neighborhood than where you are.

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You probably already are picking up when a new vehicle seems out of place and

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you don’t recognize it as driving by your driveway in the past.

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These are things that we probably already do or we do already do.

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And we just haven’t given it a label or paid much attention to it for whatever

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reason because it is such a subconscious activity that we participate in.

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But situational awareness is simply paying attention to what’s going on around

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us, who is around, and then looking for things that seem out of place or just

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that aren’t quite right or aren’t part of the normal routine of things.

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And again, I’m not going to do a super deep dive on that because we talked about

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it with Kelly back in podcast 25, and I would invite you to listen to that and

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the other two that I previously mentioned.

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Situational awareness is kind

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of the precursor to being able to avoid things, right? Not in all cases.

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And look, situational awareness is, again, I’m going to say it again,

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is not about being paranoid.

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Being prepared is different than being paranoid. Paranoid is something else.

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That’s not something I encourage.

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Plus, it’s extremely exhausting, and that’s not what we’re looking at.

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By the same token, this isn’t about worrying about 100% of the time.

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It’s impossible for you to be on point 100% of the time.

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The point of this is to tell you to be looking to do it and be making a conscious

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effort to become more aware of your surroundings and those that are in your surroundings.

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Things, then not. No one can do it 100% of the times.

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I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had people suddenly come up behind me and

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I didn’t catch them. I didn’t know they were there.

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I can’t tell you how many times cars have passed by and I didn’t see them coming

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up. So there’s no way to do it 100% of the time.

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It’s just about getting in the mindset that that’s what you need to be thinking

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about when you’re outside your home.

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And again, that’s kind of a setup for this next one, and that’s avoiding potentially

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bad things. Or when you see bad things happening, get out.

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We live in the age of social media. Everybody,

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wants to pull out their phones and take pictures and film.

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Okay, if you can do that safely and you’re out and away from whatever’s happening

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and you’re not just suffering the bystander effect where you’re frozen and you’re

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doing what the group’s doing and groupthink and all of that stuff,

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great, because, you know, there might need to be some evidence documented.

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And that’s not a bad thing. What we’re talking about is filming and taking pictures

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for the thirst trapping on social media, right?

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That’s inappropriate, and it’s a safety hazard for yourself.

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But avoiding potentially bad areas or situations when you’re aware of them ahead of time.

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If I’m not aware of them ahead of time, it makes it much more difficult to avoid,

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right? Would you agree with that? That’s kind of common sense.

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But what do we mean by avoiding things?

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Well, let’s say you find yourself in a bar late one evening and a fight breaks out.

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It probably would behoove you just to leave that bar and go home.

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You probably don’t need to be out that late anyway.

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They say nothing good happens past midnight. Yes, I’ve been out past midnight

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many times in my life, including recently.

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Okay, you’re not going to change the way you live. But the point being is, as a fight breaks out,

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it’s good to avoid that situation and just leave the bar and go home or find

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the next bar or restaurant that’s still open where you can finish up your drinks

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or your conversation that you’re having with your friends.

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Another example of avoiding, and we’ve talked about this before,

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is don’t go to the gas station alone after dark.

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That’s avoiding. Don’t go to the ATM by yourself after dark.

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I mean, these places can be dangerous potentially even in broad daylight,

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but there’s just some basic rules that allow you to avoid potentially bad situations.

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So don’t go to the gas station after dark alone. Don’t go to the ATM after dark alone.

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Don’t go down that dark alley when you can’t see what’s down there.

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And even though it’s a great shortcut to get to the parking lot where you’re

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parked, especially if you see questionable characters down there,

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you’re not sure what’s going on in said dark alley, take the extra hundred yard walk.

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You probably need it anyway. It’s not going to help. It’s not going to hurt.

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And look, if there’s nothing going on in that dark alley, you don’t need to

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be bypassing through a dark alley anyway.

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You took the long way around. You got yourself a little bit of exercise and

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who cares if there was nothing in that dark alley to worry about.

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You just saved yourself a hassle.

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And if there was something potentially bad in that dark alley,

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you just avoided it by taking the longer route.

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Another thing to think about, and again, being able to avoid is knowing about things ahead of time.

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When we travel, becoming familiar with the parts of town we’re going to be staying

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in, or when we travel to another country, it’s.

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Very important that we do our due diligence and our homework ahead of time to

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understand what we’re going, where we’re going, the cultural differences,

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but most importantly, the neighborhoods and where we’re staying and what the reputation is.

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And, you know, with the power of the interwebs, it makes it very easy.

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For that matter, you can call the hotels that you’re thinking about staying

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in and asking them for a general sense of atmosphere and environment where you’re

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planning to go and stay and vacation.

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So all of these things we can do to avoid a potentially bad situation.

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Another might be having to raise our voice with the stranger,

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the bum approaching us at the gas station in broad daylight,

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asking us for directions,

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not allowing them to encroach into our personal space where the risk factor

00:16:22.098 –> 00:16:24.518
potentially goes up for us, right?

00:16:24.518 –> 00:16:28.598
Being firm and brazen with their voice, right?

00:16:28.678 –> 00:16:31.878
We can’t be concerned about we don’t want to be rude to them.

00:16:32.178 –> 00:16:37.058
If we’re rude to them and they had no bad intent at all, they’ll get over it.

00:16:37.118 –> 00:16:41.818
And hopefully they’ll appreciate the fact that we were exercising our boundaries

00:16:41.818 –> 00:16:44.618
and stopped them in their tracks, hopefully.

00:16:44.838 –> 00:16:49.558
If they had bad intent, they know you’re not someone to be trifled with and

00:16:49.558 –> 00:16:52.578
you’re willing to call them out and bring attention to them,

00:16:52.658 –> 00:16:54.118
which bad guys never like.

00:16:54.810 –> 00:16:59.210
Another thing we could do to avoid, just as I’m spitballing examples here as

00:16:59.210 –> 00:17:02.270
fast as I can think of them, but just to paint pictures for you,

00:17:02.430 –> 00:17:06.550
is when I do go to gas station to get gas and I’m pumping gas,

00:17:06.790 –> 00:17:09.850
not standing between my car and the gas pump.

00:17:09.850 –> 00:17:13.290
That’s comfortable and convenient, but it’s a kill zone.

00:17:13.290 –> 00:17:15.690
And it doesn’t mean you’re going to get killed there all the time,

00:17:15.810 –> 00:17:21.230
but it’s, it’s a bad place to be because you’re blocked in on at least two sides

00:17:21.230 –> 00:17:25.050
and probably technically three, because you’ve got that hose coming across,

00:17:25.270 –> 00:17:26.690
blocking you off from wherever.

00:17:26.890 –> 00:17:29.910
So don’t stand between your car and the gas pump.

00:17:30.530 –> 00:17:34.970
I’m just trying to get you in the mindset. We already know things that we need

00:17:34.970 –> 00:17:41.650
to be avoiding. And if we find ourselves in a situation that’s gone sideways, we need to get out.

00:17:41.970 –> 00:17:46.550
And that’s really all avoiding is. And making the decision to leave,

00:17:46.550 –> 00:17:50.530
I remember very early on in my original martial arts career,

00:17:50.790 –> 00:17:51.890
if you want to call it that,

00:17:52.310 –> 00:17:56.710
one of my instructors asked the class a number of times the trick question,

00:17:56.890 –> 00:17:59.990
what’s your best defense? What’s the number one defense?

00:18:00.870 –> 00:18:05.070
And I’ll give spoiler alert here. The number one defense is running,

00:18:05.370 –> 00:18:06.570
right? getting out and away.

00:18:06.910 –> 00:18:10.670
Sometimes you can’t, and we’ll talk about that, but your number one defense

00:18:10.670 –> 00:18:15.790
is generally avoiding, and that involves running or at least walking and exiting

00:18:15.790 –> 00:18:18.890
the premises, so to speak. Okay, guys.

00:18:19.230 –> 00:18:23.210
Now, ladies, this applies to you too, whether you like it or not,

00:18:23.230 –> 00:18:26.110
but we always think of men and guys,

00:18:26.350 –> 00:18:30.430
especially college age, drinking age guys and others,

00:18:30.430 –> 00:18:33.510
hot heads too that have egos

00:18:33.510 –> 00:18:40.590
and sometimes egos will get you in trouble sometimes egos will allow your mouth

00:18:40.590 –> 00:18:48.750
and even your mind to write checks that as they say your ass can’t cash so men

00:18:48.750 –> 00:18:52.790
and women alike keep those egos in check.

00:18:53.667 –> 00:18:56.947
Don’t let the ego get the best of you, because sometimes when you do,

00:18:57.247 –> 00:19:02.367
that’s going to get you in a situation, even if it is just a social fight situation,

00:19:02.367 –> 00:19:06.667
that’s going to get you in a situation you may or may not be able to get yourself out of again.

00:19:07.207 –> 00:19:12.327
And I’ll add this on, and we’ve all done it, right? We’ve all been guilty of it.

00:19:12.407 –> 00:19:16.447
I think I don’t, you know, maybe somebody hasn’t, you know, has been perfect

00:19:16.447 –> 00:19:17.987
about keeping themselves in check.

00:19:17.987 –> 00:19:24.107
But in addition to the ego, I will say if you like to consider yourself a hothead

00:19:24.107 –> 00:19:28.987
or you have anger management issues or you’ve had therapy for anger issues,

00:19:28.987 –> 00:19:33.687
always think of anger management with Jack Nicholson and Adam Sandler.

00:19:33.967 –> 00:19:38.047
Fantastic if you haven’t seen it. But anyway, some hysterical moments in there.

00:19:38.047 –> 00:19:44.687
But anger is another one with ego that can get find you in trouble and sometimes

00:19:44.687 –> 00:19:49.507
getting yourself in more trouble than you’re willing or able to deal with.

00:19:49.807 –> 00:19:55.887
And a friend of mine, I won’t mention her name, but even recently she was telling me about this guy.

00:19:56.047 –> 00:19:58.327
And I don’t even remember what happened, but needless to say,

00:19:58.407 –> 00:20:00.007
it was a road rage incident.

00:20:00.007 –> 00:20:05.967
And I’m going to say as a sidebar note, you really need to avoid doing aggressive

00:20:05.967 –> 00:20:12.527
types of things in road rage scenarios because there’s so much in today’s society with people.

00:20:12.833 –> 00:20:19.033
The number of prescriptions and otherwise, and people being out of work or transitioning between work,

00:20:19.253 –> 00:20:22.653
tough family situations, working at home remotely all the time,

00:20:22.833 –> 00:20:29.933
whatever it is, I would say now is as good of time, if not the best time there’s

00:20:29.933 –> 00:20:32.953
ever been in recent history to avoid road rage.

00:20:33.093 –> 00:20:36.793
But my friend was telling me that someone else did something in traffic,

00:20:36.793 –> 00:20:41.853
and it sounded like that individual was completely in the wrong and actually

00:20:41.853 –> 00:20:45.673
may have even been gunning for some sort of altercation on the roadway,

00:20:45.813 –> 00:20:47.733
which I don’t have the mindset for.

00:20:48.673 –> 00:20:55.013
But she told me it got her upset, pissed her off, and she wound up flicking this gentleman off.

00:20:55.113 –> 00:21:01.133
And I said, you know, okay, fine, but you really got to keep that in check because

00:21:01.133 –> 00:21:04.453
today you don’t know somebody might pull over and stick a gun in your face and

00:21:04.453 –> 00:21:06.033
shoot you in the head, you know, Right.

00:21:06.253 –> 00:21:14.073
Whatever it is. So ego and anger management, ego in check and anger management in check.

00:21:14.353 –> 00:21:19.733
Those are very important things for us to be doing to better avoid finding ourselves

00:21:19.733 –> 00:21:23.233
in a situation where we have to make the decision. Is it time to go?

00:21:23.987 –> 00:21:31.007
Much like egos or egos being out of control is, you know, usually equated with

00:21:31.007 –> 00:21:37.067
men, intuition is something else we all need to do a better job of listening to for ourselves.

00:21:37.327 –> 00:21:41.867
And intuition is like a woman’s superpower, right?

00:21:42.127 –> 00:21:47.107
The fact of the matter is, much like ego is to men, intuition is to women.

00:21:47.267 –> 00:21:52.967
But the fact of the matter is men have intuition, too. They have spidey senses,

00:21:53.307 –> 00:21:57.327
that gut sense, that gut feeling, whatever you want to refer to it as.

00:21:57.667 –> 00:22:02.227
When your intuition is telling you something, listen.

00:22:02.687 –> 00:22:09.407
When your intuition, your spidey senses, your gut feeling is telling you something, listen.

00:22:09.727 –> 00:22:14.227
If that means getting out of the grocery store, you can’t explain it.

00:22:14.287 –> 00:22:15.507
You can’t figure out why.

00:22:15.647 –> 00:22:19.367
You can’t just put your finger on it just yet. You don’t understand why you’re

00:22:19.367 –> 00:22:20.607
feeling weird about things.

00:22:21.227 –> 00:22:25.627
Listen and get out. Maybe it turns out to be absolutely nothing.

00:22:25.887 –> 00:22:30.107
Guess what? You left the grocery store. You’ll have to come back later. Big deal.

00:22:30.607 –> 00:22:34.647
Listen to your intuition. Men, this means you too.

00:22:35.407 –> 00:22:40.627
Listen to your intuition. Women, keep those egos and those hot tempers in check,

00:22:40.807 –> 00:22:42.747
right? This applies to everyone.

00:22:43.727 –> 00:22:47.147
And so if you find yourself in a situation where you’re having to decide,

00:22:47.147 –> 00:22:51.727
Now is it time for me to try and get out of here, which is what you should be thinking anyway.

00:22:51.987 –> 00:22:55.907
But when you find yourself in a situation where you’re trying to decide,

00:22:55.907 –> 00:22:58.147
is it time for me to go yet or not?

00:22:59.087 –> 00:23:04.807
Meaning to be the first to engage. These are all the things that have likely

00:23:04.807 –> 00:23:08.567
happened or at least a combination of them to find yourself in the situation.

00:23:08.567 –> 00:23:12.727
How did that guy get in your personal space without you noticing it?

00:23:12.927 –> 00:23:15.487
Clearly, you weren’t practicing good situational awareness.

00:23:16.307 –> 00:23:21.207
If you walked by where the fight was going on and happened to bump shoulders

00:23:21.207 –> 00:23:24.867
with one of the guys that was a hothead in the fight, you know,

00:23:25.027 –> 00:23:29.367
was that the best practice of avoiding the situation? No.

00:23:30.091 –> 00:23:34.951
Maybe your mouth got ahead of you and you didn’t keep your ego in check.

00:23:35.211 –> 00:23:38.371
Maybe you didn’t listen to what your gut was telling you.

00:23:38.851 –> 00:23:43.111
Any combination of these things could have led you to that very precarious position

00:23:43.111 –> 00:23:46.231
of having to decide, hey, do I need to go now?

00:23:46.431 –> 00:23:54.831
We’ve talked about this already in the context of avoiding, but just as a specifically to talk about it.

00:23:54.991 –> 00:23:57.011
Your goal should be to get away

00:23:57.011 –> 00:24:02.591
and go home safe, not to piggyback on any groups, taglines or slogans.

00:24:02.791 –> 00:24:07.111
But your goal is to get home safe at the end of the day, no matter what.

00:24:07.291 –> 00:24:10.411
And I just said at the end of the day, which I hate saying, sorry about that.

00:24:10.791 –> 00:24:18.511
But you need to figure out and, you know, just as if not arguably more important

00:24:18.511 –> 00:24:21.931
than deciding when is it time to go? when is it time for me to throw that first

00:24:21.931 –> 00:24:25.531
punch or hit them with the baseball bat, which probably isn’t a good idea.

00:24:26.211 –> 00:24:30.051
Just as important, if not more important than that, you need to be figuring

00:24:30.051 –> 00:24:33.911
out when it is time to do that best defense move. Remember what that is?

00:24:34.051 –> 00:24:37.131
It’s getting out. It’s running away, right?

00:24:37.331 –> 00:24:42.751
Leaving the area, leaving an area, you know, not to be too specific here,

00:24:42.751 –> 00:24:48.131
but yeah, running away is legitimate and no one’s going to think you’re a coward.

00:24:48.131 –> 00:24:51.311
Again, if you’re worried about that, get that ego back in check.

00:24:51.591 –> 00:24:55.751
Running away is legit. Whether you’re a capable fighter or not,

00:24:56.311 –> 00:25:00.851
getting away from a situation, leaving a situation, running away a situation,

00:25:01.151 –> 00:25:04.231
even walking away, just leaving wherever you are for the evening,

00:25:04.411 –> 00:25:07.471
for the day, whatever, and coming back later at some other time when it’s better.

00:25:08.491 –> 00:25:11.951
All of this ties together, right? But you need to be making good,

00:25:12.131 –> 00:25:13.711
solid decisions ahead of time.

00:25:14.131 –> 00:25:19.251
And this is why I mentioned our podcast 26, I believe it was,

00:25:19.371 –> 00:25:23.751
because thinking through scenarios, anybody that’s thought through scenarios

00:25:23.751 –> 00:25:25.451
before they’ve happened.

00:25:26.103 –> 00:25:30.443
Right or wrong, the best solution or not, which likely it may not be,

00:25:30.663 –> 00:25:32.683
it may not be even the right solution.

00:25:32.863 –> 00:25:37.943
But anyone that’s taken time to think about the what ifs ahead of time is always

00:25:37.943 –> 00:25:41.743
better prepared than the person that hasn’t given a single thought to it.

00:25:42.683 –> 00:25:48.063
So I encourage you to go back and listen to podcast 26 on the importance of

00:25:48.063 –> 00:25:51.123
thinking through scenarios and asking yourself the what ifs,

00:25:51.223 –> 00:25:53.383
because that’s going to help you

00:25:53.383 –> 00:25:58.063
put all of these pieces together and understand how at the end of the day,

00:25:58.243 –> 00:26:01.723
they really, and I said it again, how they work together.

00:26:02.343 –> 00:26:07.283
Situational awareness helps you avoid keeping your ego in check and listening

00:26:07.283 –> 00:26:10.883
to your intuition helps you also avoid.

00:26:11.143 –> 00:26:16.323
And that’s what it’s all about. And the last subject, and not that all of these

00:26:16.323 –> 00:26:17.763
are in any particular order.

00:26:17.903 –> 00:26:22.043
I think situational awareness and paying attention to our surroundings is probably

00:26:22.043 –> 00:26:24.543
the foundation and first and foremost.

00:26:25.563 –> 00:26:29.243
But the last one on the list, and again, this is pretty important,

00:26:29.243 –> 00:26:33.463
and it may not be the last one on the list, just depending on where the altercation

00:26:33.463 –> 00:26:37.643
happens, but learning how to verbally de-escalate a situation,

00:26:37.903 –> 00:26:41.003
keeping your body language neutral.

00:26:41.443 –> 00:26:45.203
Sure, you might have your hands out in front of but they need to be lower and

00:26:45.203 –> 00:26:46.463
non-aggressive, right?

00:26:46.623 –> 00:26:50.403
But learning to be, learning the art of de-escalation.

00:26:50.563 –> 00:26:55.963
And again, we talked about de-escalation in podcast 40, which was a fantastic

00:26:55.963 –> 00:26:57.503
episode with Randy King.

00:26:57.643 –> 00:27:01.503
We did a deep dive into what de-escalation looks like,

00:27:02.238 –> 00:27:08.098
But I will tell you on at a high level, it is about actively listening,

00:27:08.598 –> 00:27:16.438
keeping your ego in check and not doing anything to further provoke the individual

00:27:16.438 –> 00:27:20.538
or individuals that you’re dealing with or the situation you’re dealing with at hand.

00:27:20.838 –> 00:27:25.758
Because, again, learning that de-escalation skills, those de-escalation skills

00:27:25.758 –> 00:27:29.278
is only going to help you be able to understand.

00:27:30.055 –> 00:27:33.895
Leave the situation that you’re dealing with, right? The goal of de-escalation

00:27:33.895 –> 00:27:36.155
isn’t to have it turn into a fight.

00:27:36.335 –> 00:27:38.355
That’s the opposite of what we’re trying to do.

00:27:38.775 –> 00:27:45.475
But learning that active listening skills, trying to avoid saying no or not,

00:27:45.955 –> 00:27:49.415
making sure they feel like they’re being heard.

00:27:50.135 –> 00:27:54.555
Being non-aggressive in our body language, all of these things count.

00:27:54.795 –> 00:28:00.155
And so before you find yourself in a situation of having to decide whether or

00:28:00.155 –> 00:28:02.335
not, how do you know when it’s time to go?

00:28:02.595 –> 00:28:07.215
Those are the things, paying attention, avoiding bad situations when you know

00:28:07.215 –> 00:28:10.815
about them ahead of time, keeping your ego in check, keeping that hot temper

00:28:10.815 –> 00:28:16.315
in check, listening to your gut, listening to your intuition, running away.

00:28:16.635 –> 00:28:20.335
As soon as you have an opportunity, run away from a bad situation,

00:28:20.495 –> 00:28:22.575
then learning those de-escalation skills,

00:28:22.815 –> 00:28:32.075
all of those things go a long way to help you never or have a less likely chance

00:28:32.075 –> 00:28:35.615
of ever needing to be concerned, hey, when do I need to get into a fight?

00:28:35.795 –> 00:28:37.455
When do I need to defend myself?

00:28:37.935 –> 00:28:41.695
And that’s really ultimately our goal and the way we all should be living.

00:28:42.175 –> 00:28:46.875
Now I want to talk about the answers to Tony’s original question.

00:28:46.875 –> 00:28:50.015
How do I know when it’s time to go.

00:28:50.195 –> 00:28:55.775
Well, there are some telltale signs and I don’t claim to be an expert.

00:28:55.775 –> 00:29:00.335
I’m not going to sit here and tell you of all the bar brawls I have been in

00:29:00.335 –> 00:29:04.095
and all the street fights I’ve been in because A, I’d be lying and B,

00:29:04.195 –> 00:29:05.395
that’s just not in my nature.

00:29:05.495 –> 00:29:10.055
I do much better at paying attention to my surroundings and avoiding bad,

00:29:10.255 –> 00:29:11.855
potentially bad situations.

00:29:12.635 –> 00:29:17.655
And honestly, I’m too old at this point to have my ego get me into trouble.

00:29:17.935 –> 00:29:22.555
So I take that route. I’d be lying if I have some enormous amount of experience,

00:29:22.555 –> 00:29:25.375
but I have studied fighting and I’ve watched,

00:29:25.535 –> 00:29:29.475
I’m not going to brag about the number of hours because I couldn’t tell you,

00:29:29.595 –> 00:29:33.415
but suffice it to say, I’ve watched a lot of closed circuit.

00:29:34.223 –> 00:29:41.743
TV and security camera footage of altercations, both predatory and social violence.

00:29:41.983 –> 00:29:45.003
And there are some pretty telltale signs,

00:29:45.003 –> 00:29:51.043
even just from a crappy camera resolution, you can see some of them.

00:29:51.203 –> 00:29:55.743
And so we’re going to talk about a lot of these and they’re not in any particular order.

00:29:56.083 –> 00:30:03.263
There’s no 100%. Oh, that guy had his fists clenched up. He was definitely getting ready to hit me.

00:30:03.863 –> 00:30:07.283
There’s none of that. There’s not like, well, they’ve got to have three out

00:30:07.283 –> 00:30:12.563
of the 20 signs and then, you know, or it’s just one or it’s got to be all of them.

00:30:12.683 –> 00:30:18.343
It doesn’t work like that. It could very well be all of them or it could just be one of them.

00:30:18.503 –> 00:30:23.563
There’s no way to know until you’re in that situation and you’re paying attention

00:30:23.563 –> 00:30:27.203
well enough because that’s part of the situational awareness too,

00:30:27.203 –> 00:30:31.323
is when you do find somebody in your personal space or near your personal space.

00:30:31.563 –> 00:30:35.343
All those other things we just talked about, likely one or more of them has

00:30:35.343 –> 00:30:38.163
been failure, right? Something’s gone wrong.

00:30:38.743 –> 00:30:43.003
But now that they’ve got your attention because they’re in front of you in your

00:30:43.003 –> 00:30:46.783
personal space or near your personal space and personal space,

00:30:46.923 –> 00:30:50.583
depending on culture is anywhere from two to 10 feet, right?

00:30:50.763 –> 00:30:56.123
But for me, I know anything inside the three foot mark, give or take,

00:30:56.243 –> 00:30:59.523
maybe even the four foot mark, you don’t need to be there.

00:30:59.563 –> 00:31:01.783
So You know what your personal space is.

00:31:01.943 –> 00:31:05.183
You know, there’s a whole lot of things like we’ve just talked about to go wrong

00:31:05.183 –> 00:31:09.663
to find yourself in that situation. But now that they are in your space,

00:31:09.663 –> 00:31:14.063
now you definitely need to be paying attention to what they’re doing.

00:31:14.243 –> 00:31:18.283
You also need to be paying attention to your surroundings to make sure they

00:31:18.283 –> 00:31:21.803
don’t have buddies waiting over behind you to try to ambush you.

00:31:21.883 –> 00:31:26.543
Or the person that is in your personal space is setting running interference

00:31:26.543 –> 00:31:33.183
so your buddies can get you from behind. now you really need to be paying attention. So that notion of.

00:31:33.891 –> 00:31:38.311
You know, just pay attention to what’s going on around you never really goes away.

00:31:38.891 –> 00:31:43.231
And so some of the signs that you’ll see, and again, these are no particular

00:31:43.231 –> 00:31:48.491
order and one or more of them may or may not happen. Or maybe if someone’s really

00:31:48.491 –> 00:31:53.551
cool about stuff, they might be able to get the drop on you and never see it coming.

00:31:53.991 –> 00:31:58.571
But I suspect, and again, based on a lot of the studies that I’ve done watching

00:31:58.571 –> 00:32:00.251
the video footage that I have,

00:32:00.251 –> 00:32:05.691
generally there’s always something that gives it away you just may not be paying

00:32:05.691 –> 00:32:09.031
attention to it so let’s talk about those i’ll shut up so we can talk about

00:32:09.031 –> 00:32:14.371
them so pupil dilation might be one people get stressed out people get upset

00:32:14.371 –> 00:32:17.591
they might be hopped up on drugs too right pupil.

00:32:18.211 –> 00:32:23.451
Dilation is one they’ve got to be pretty close up on you for you to be paying

00:32:23.451 –> 00:32:25.271
attention but that’s one.

00:32:25.471 –> 00:32:30.751
When we talk about eyes, there’s all kinds of things that could be going on with the eyes.

00:32:30.931 –> 00:32:36.431
A person that has you targeted, so to speak, if they want something on your

00:32:36.431 –> 00:32:41.471
person, like your smartphone or your purse, they might be staring pretty hard

00:32:41.471 –> 00:32:43.531
at that object that you have on your person.

00:32:43.871 –> 00:32:45.811
They are focused on that target.

00:32:46.211 –> 00:32:52.451
Or if you’re their target, which for some predatory hunters out there, you are the target.

00:32:52.671 –> 00:32:56.871
They might be giving you the dead stare. They might be staring right through

00:32:56.871 –> 00:33:00.811
you. You’ve heard of the thousand mile, I mean the thousand yard stare,

00:33:00.991 –> 00:33:03.151
right? It just cuts right through you.

00:33:03.431 –> 00:33:07.911
It’s like you’re not even there, but they are intently focused and it’s a good

00:33:07.911 –> 00:33:09.471
chance that something’s coming.

00:33:10.278 –> 00:33:14.578
Another thing that is kind of body language and eyes,

00:33:14.758 –> 00:33:19.138
I’ll go ahead and classify it in with, lump it in with the eye observations,

00:33:19.138 –> 00:33:25.618
is that in a lot of cases, and I’d say in most of the cases for me,

00:33:25.898 –> 00:33:31.498
the bad guy will have a tendency to glance around before they attack.

00:33:31.498 –> 00:33:35.318
And this is to make sure no one’s around or looking at them, right?

00:33:35.638 –> 00:33:40.698
And I won’t say all the time, but I feel like the majority of the time this

00:33:40.698 –> 00:33:45.418
is always happening and it’s usually right before the attack goes down.

00:33:46.378 –> 00:33:50.818
So you definitely want to be watching for them to be kind of cutting their eyes

00:33:50.818 –> 00:33:54.238
around and turning their heads and looking around at the environment because

00:33:54.238 –> 00:33:57.558
that’s exactly what they’re doing is checking because we know bad guys don’t

00:33:57.558 –> 00:34:00.738
want an audience, right? Don’t like an audience and don’t want to be seen.

00:34:01.537 –> 00:34:06.437
Hands could be clenched. Jaws could be clenched. You know, when people are angry,

00:34:06.597 –> 00:34:08.557
especially their lips will furrow.

00:34:08.717 –> 00:34:11.917
They’ll get that real serious, tight-lipped look about them.

00:34:12.017 –> 00:34:14.997
They’ll clench their jaws. You’ll see their jaw muscles flex.

00:34:15.517 –> 00:34:18.737
Their eyes will furrow, right?

00:34:18.897 –> 00:34:22.677
You know, they’ll get the angry eyebrow thing going on.

00:34:22.817 –> 00:34:27.657
All of these things, again, could be leading towards an attack, right?

00:34:27.897 –> 00:34:32.237
Again, nothing’s imminent. I’m not saying that. These are just signs to look

00:34:32.237 –> 00:34:35.737
for to better be able to judge what you need to be doing.

00:34:35.917 –> 00:34:39.177
And again, your goal should be to try to get out of there, but there might be

00:34:39.177 –> 00:34:42.537
circumstances that you can’t, right? So that’s what we’re dealing with.

00:34:43.377 –> 00:34:49.057
Another one might be shoulders and general body leaning forward,

00:34:49.357 –> 00:34:54.457
like maybe over the toes or past, you know, us guys, I guess,

00:34:54.757 –> 00:34:57.117
part of bowing up on someone, you know, right?

00:34:57.237 –> 00:35:00.797
We try to make ourselves bigger. We show an aggressive stance,

00:35:00.797 –> 00:35:03.517
and one of the ways that can be done is a forward lean.

00:35:03.737 –> 00:35:08.957
I can tell you also that most street fights that I’ve watched,

00:35:09.337 –> 00:35:13.517
the individual that’s about to attack generally blades their body.

00:35:14.077 –> 00:35:19.637
Usually that means the dominant foot going back and the support foot’s forward,

00:35:19.837 –> 00:35:21.957
you know, kind of getting that bladed angle.

00:35:22.337 –> 00:35:25.437
A lot of martial arts have that as part of their stance, right? Right.

00:35:25.817 –> 00:35:29.237
Dominant foot, dominant leg goes back. Strong attacking, you know,

00:35:29.377 –> 00:35:34.497
more momentum to drive kicks, more grounding to drive stronger punches,

00:35:34.757 –> 00:35:36.637
whatever it is. They’ll blade their bodies.

00:35:37.177 –> 00:35:41.397
They’re leaning forward. They got their fish clenched. Their lips are furled.

00:35:42.587 –> 00:35:46.227
Blood rate, you know, heart rate obviously goes up. If you’re lucky and paying

00:35:46.227 –> 00:35:50.987
attention, you might see veins popping out in their forehead or in their neck

00:35:50.987 –> 00:35:53.087
and actually see their pulse, right?

00:35:53.207 –> 00:35:56.647
You have to be, again, paying attention. The lighting’s got to be just right.

00:35:56.907 –> 00:36:03.607
You may or may not see this, but you can bet that unless they are special in

00:36:03.607 –> 00:36:08.567
the ability to keep themselves cool, again, their heart rate’s likely going to be going up.

00:36:08.887 –> 00:36:13.367
An obvious one, right? They might be turning red in anger. They might be yelling

00:36:13.367 –> 00:36:15.527
and cursing at you like crazy.

00:36:15.947 –> 00:36:19.887
It’s important, again, part of that keeping that ego in check is important not

00:36:19.887 –> 00:36:21.547
to respond in kind, right?

00:36:21.647 –> 00:36:25.187
This goes to the, we’re still working to deescalate the situation.

00:36:25.187 –> 00:36:27.067
We’ve got to keep ourselves cool.

00:36:27.207 –> 00:36:30.587
We got to keep the hot heads cool and the egos in check, right?

00:36:30.667 –> 00:36:35.487
And so we don’t want to respond in kind when they’re spitting venom and vile

00:36:35.487 –> 00:36:42.507
at us and cursing and calling our mom’s name, you know, this is just tactic, right?

00:36:42.647 –> 00:36:45.767
And they are angry, and that’s a very obvious way to tell.

00:36:45.987 –> 00:36:50.467
It may not be the best way to know that they’re getting ready to hit you in that moment.

00:36:50.627 –> 00:36:54.307
Some of these other body language and body things that are happening with the

00:36:54.307 –> 00:36:56.787
body that we’re talking about are probably better indicators,

00:36:56.787 –> 00:36:59.427
but I’m just saying this is a more obvious one.

00:36:59.867 –> 00:37:05.047
If their hands are hidden, this is why cops insist upon people getting their

00:37:05.047 –> 00:37:08.527
hands in plain sight, putting them up on the steering wheel if they’re in the

00:37:08.527 –> 00:37:12.287
car, if they’re standing in front of them, making them take their hands out of the pocket.

00:37:13.187 –> 00:37:19.067
Hidden hands are never a good sign. Why? What are they doing with their hands?

00:37:19.247 –> 00:37:23.507
What are they getting with their hands? What is already in their hands?

00:37:23.507 –> 00:37:26.607
You don’t know if their hands are hidden. So,

00:37:27.373 –> 00:37:31.653
Things that you want to be particularly careful of is noticing if their hands

00:37:31.653 –> 00:37:37.093
are in their jacket pockets, their hoodie, you know, how they have the solid

00:37:37.093 –> 00:37:40.953
pass-through pocket, I call it in the front, whether both their hands are in there.

00:37:41.113 –> 00:37:46.513
They’re reaching into the waistband of their jeans. Their hands are going into their pockets.

00:37:46.953 –> 00:37:49.473
Worse yet, their hands are going behind them.

00:37:49.993 –> 00:37:53.353
Are they getting the phone out of their back pocket or are they pulling a knife?

00:37:53.533 –> 00:37:56.433
Do they have a gun back there in their waistband? You don’t know.

00:37:57.533 –> 00:38:01.153
That is something you’ve got to be careful of. And I’m going to piggyback on

00:38:01.153 –> 00:38:07.293
something specific that you definitely need to likely either take action.

00:38:07.293 –> 00:38:09.013
And again, I’m not telling you what to do.

00:38:09.153 –> 00:38:14.253
Only you can decide what you’re going to do in that moment. I’m just giving

00:38:14.253 –> 00:38:16.993
you some telltale signs so that you’re aware.

00:38:17.193 –> 00:38:21.173
And I encourage you to go look these up for yourself so you become more familiar with them.

00:38:21.773 –> 00:38:27.193
But while we’re on the subject of hidden hands or hiding hands or hands moving

00:38:27.193 –> 00:38:31.233
to hiding places, as I would say, you know, moving to those pockets,

00:38:31.593 –> 00:38:33.973
moving back behind the back, whatever it is.

00:38:34.253 –> 00:38:40.533
If you see a hand go to the hip or back behind or anywhere really,

00:38:40.533 –> 00:38:48.773
and that elbow goes up on that same arm, you probably can assume there’s a weapon coming out.

00:38:49.033 –> 00:38:53.293
Now, is that a telltale sign for sure? Nope, because maybe they’re just pulling

00:38:53.293 –> 00:38:55.193
the smartphone out of their back pocket.

00:38:55.193 –> 00:39:01.133
But I’m just pointing out that an elbow up is a pretty serious sign and you

00:39:01.133 –> 00:39:05.633
want to be noting that and paying real close attention because there could be

00:39:05.633 –> 00:39:09.593
the blade or the weapon of some sort coming out next after that.

00:39:10.279 –> 00:39:13.059
They also may be sweating profusely too, right?

00:39:13.179 –> 00:39:17.019
They’re angry, they’re upset, their adrenaline’s pumping, they’ve had an adrenaline

00:39:17.019 –> 00:39:19.319
dump, you know, they might be sweating.

00:39:19.479 –> 00:39:21.719
They may not be able to stay cool, right?

00:39:22.039 –> 00:39:26.459
So the other thing that you might notice is a lack of breathing.

00:39:27.579 –> 00:39:32.279
In fight situations, intense situations, you hold your breath.

00:39:32.399 –> 00:39:35.379
And I’ll give you a perfect example of that. Not that I’m an expert,

00:39:35.619 –> 00:39:41.239
but I remember in my early days of lifting weights, I’d have a tendency when

00:39:41.239 –> 00:39:46.679
I was on the bench press trying to throw up some serious weight for myself anyway,

00:39:47.419 –> 00:39:51.319
you know, you have a tendency to hold your breath, right? And they say, breathe, man, breathe.

00:39:51.799 –> 00:39:55.039
Have you ever been to the gym and lifted weights? You’ve probably had someone

00:39:55.039 –> 00:39:57.039
tell you to breathe more than one occasion.

00:39:58.299 –> 00:40:01.999
Different circumstances, obviously, but something similar like that.

00:40:01.999 –> 00:40:05.439
When you’re tensed up, you might have a tendency to hold your breath.

00:40:05.659 –> 00:40:10.979
And again, these are things that you’ve got to be paying really close attention to, to notice.

00:40:10.999 –> 00:40:16.559
But there are some things that are telltale signs of something that could be

00:40:16.559 –> 00:40:18.799
going down or getting ready to happen.

00:40:19.479 –> 00:40:24.539
We’ve talked about this already, but if you’re face-to-face with an individual

00:40:24.539 –> 00:40:30.759
and you’ve got a gut instinct that this really isn’t an argument or this argument isn’t going away,

00:40:30.939 –> 00:40:34.399
you’re doing your best to de-escalate it and you feel like in

00:40:34.399 –> 00:40:37.379
your gut your instinct is telling you it ain’t happening

00:40:37.379 –> 00:40:40.139
i need to get out of here again you need to

00:40:40.139 –> 00:40:44.559
be listening to your intuition it’s there for a reason listen to it and get

00:40:44.559 –> 00:40:49.319
the heck out of there and again we should be paying attention to our surroundings

00:40:49.319 –> 00:40:54.879
a to see if there’s accomplices but also to be planning an exit route like yeah

00:40:54.879 –> 00:40:58.579
you could just start running but it might be into a dark alley that dead ends

00:40:58.579 –> 00:40:59.739
into another building right?

00:40:59.819 –> 00:41:04.979
We need to be aware enough of our surroundings to have an exit route,

00:41:05.239 –> 00:41:06.859
an exit plan, if nothing else.

00:41:07.659 –> 00:41:13.939
Talking about the hands again, another sign besides just hiding hands is if

00:41:13.939 –> 00:41:18.659
they start putting away keys or phones into their pocket, you know,

00:41:18.819 –> 00:41:22.579
they’re empty in their hands, meaning they might be empty in their hands.

00:41:22.739 –> 00:41:27.079
So they got fists ready to go putting away, you know, whatever it is they have

00:41:27.079 –> 00:41:30.639
in their hands, which today is likely going to be keys or a phone.

00:41:30.939 –> 00:41:34.979
You know, that might be a sign that you need to be paying attention to for sure.

00:41:35.863 –> 00:41:42.903
So all of these are potentially indicators that things are about to go sideways

00:41:42.903 –> 00:41:45.223
from a physical encounter perspective.

00:41:45.543 –> 00:41:49.463
And again, we’re not telling you when to do it. We’re not saying it because,

00:41:49.583 –> 00:41:53.243
again, it depends, right? There’s never going to be a 100% answer to everything.

00:41:53.543 –> 00:41:56.683
It’s not going to happen one, two, three.

00:41:57.683 –> 00:42:00.783
Only you can decide and you’re responsible for you.

00:42:00.963 –> 00:42:04.803
All we’re doing here is talking about all the different things that may or may

00:42:04.803 –> 00:42:09.203
not be happening that could be indicators that something’s about to happen.

00:42:09.203 –> 00:42:16.503
And you need to consider whether you want to be the first one to hit or that’s your cue to get out.

00:42:17.023 –> 00:42:20.743
And honestly, I’d probably be looking to get out long before a lot of that,

00:42:20.843 –> 00:42:21.703
but you know what I’m saying.

00:42:21.883 –> 00:42:26.583
So we’re just simply giving you some indicators and some cues to look for and

00:42:26.583 –> 00:42:29.043
for you to be paying attention to.

00:42:29.803 –> 00:42:33.023
So this last little bit, I want to talk to you about aftermath.

00:42:33.483 –> 00:42:40.363
If it’s a situation where you think you need to, you should likely call 911,

00:42:40.703 –> 00:42:42.083
especially if you’ve been attacked.

00:42:42.283 –> 00:42:45.843
And of course, the first thing you do with 911 is give them your location.

00:42:46.043 –> 00:42:50.943
Yeah, they’ve got triangulation capabilities, but they’re not always pinpoint accurate.

00:42:51.203 –> 00:42:54.703
So when you call, and this is true of any time you call 911,

00:42:55.083 –> 00:42:58.923
you just want to be in the habit of giving them the address and or at least

00:42:58.923 –> 00:43:04.303
the road landmark and the crossroads where you’re at, whatever it is,

00:43:04.383 –> 00:43:08.423
you need to give that 911 first and then give them the story later.

00:43:08.903 –> 00:43:13.163
I would, and again, I’m not a lawyer and I’m not trying to give you legal advice,

00:43:13.163 –> 00:43:20.363
but I would refrain from starting to tell your story to 911 or even after first

00:43:20.363 –> 00:43:23.443
responders show up on the, on the scene and.

00:43:24.043 –> 00:43:29.463
If it’s a true self-defense scenario for yourself and the police do get involved,

00:43:29.723 –> 00:43:32.283
do yourself a favor and keep your mouth shut.

00:43:32.483 –> 00:43:35.983
I’m not going to say that’s legal advice, but that’s probably sound advice.

00:43:36.163 –> 00:43:40.583
Look, if law enforcement gets involved with altercations or shooting or whatever,

00:43:40.863 –> 00:43:47.163
they give their own 24 to 48 hours in time to talk to their lawyers,

00:43:47.443 –> 00:43:53.323
you know, internal, you know, whatever it is that they do, they give their own time.

00:43:53.703 –> 00:43:57.163
Right. And so, you know, the human mind’s amazing.

00:43:57.343 –> 00:44:00.383
You’ll start telling your story and you may or may not be telling that story

00:44:00.383 –> 00:44:03.443
accurately. You just think you are in that moment in time.

00:44:03.603 –> 00:44:07.383
And right after it’s happened with your adrenaline dumped and your stressors

00:44:07.383 –> 00:44:12.343
up and you still hot and probably, you know, high on that adrenaline,

00:44:12.343 –> 00:44:18.023
you may not be able to tell the story exactly how it happened or get your details exactly right.

00:44:18.743 –> 00:44:22.483
You want to respectfully ask law enforcement to give you 24,

00:44:22.683 –> 00:44:25.623
48 hours time to talk to your lawyer if need be.

00:44:26.163 –> 00:44:30.603
Whatever the case, my point is, is that you might be better off.

00:44:30.723 –> 00:44:33.443
Now, law enforcement’s going to tell you otherwise, and they’re going to want

00:44:33.443 –> 00:44:34.743
you to cooperate with them.

00:44:34.823 –> 00:44:38.163
And you let them know that you definitely plan to cooperate.

00:44:38.163 –> 00:44:42.643
You just need some time to get your ducks in a row and whatever else you need to be doing.

00:44:42.803 –> 00:44:47.763
That would be my take on it. But again, you’re responsible for you and have

00:44:47.763 –> 00:44:50.643
to make the right decisions for yourself in that moment in time.

00:44:50.703 –> 00:44:53.463
I would just recommend avoiding the story.

00:44:54.174 –> 00:44:58.474
In addition to that, if the person’s been hurt that you’ve been in an altercation

00:44:58.474 –> 00:45:04.774
with, or if you’ve inflicted damage to them, especially if it goes to, you know,

00:45:05.214 –> 00:45:13.094
tools, let’s say, like a gunshot, it wouldn’t be a bad idea if you know how to render them aid.

00:45:13.354 –> 00:45:18.314
A, it’s the human thing to do, and B, it makes things look better for you potentially

00:45:18.314 –> 00:45:21.754
should things go to trial and not look good for you, right?

00:45:21.754 –> 00:45:27.914
So render that aid if no other reason it might help you, but for no other reason

00:45:27.914 –> 00:45:31.494
than just it’s the human, it’s the right thing to do.

00:45:31.674 –> 00:45:35.254
And I mean, you know, if things have gotten to the point where gunfire is involved,

00:45:35.894 –> 00:45:40.174
you might be the one hurt, but just something to consider. Again,

00:45:40.274 –> 00:45:43.414
I’m not telling you what to do. I’m just giving you some things to consider.

00:45:43.754 –> 00:45:49.674
And I also want to talk about, and I don’t know why I bring this up in the context of aftermath,

00:45:50.174 –> 00:45:56.354
but you need to be prepared to have to face this situation, not just from an

00:45:56.354 –> 00:46:01.554
emotional perspective, because you just got through something or maybe nearly

00:46:01.554 –> 00:46:04.654
got through something, almost didn’t, whatever it is.

00:46:05.574 –> 00:46:12.114
It takes a toll emotionally on you, certainly, but there’s also likely a legal aspect.

00:46:12.314 –> 00:46:18.894
So I recommend that you go out and do some studies on legalities of self-defense,

00:46:18.894 –> 00:46:23.194
what you can and can’t do for your area, your state.

00:46:23.654 –> 00:46:27.654
And I’m not going to give legal advice.

00:46:28.514 –> 00:46:34.294
I’m just going to tell you a couple of things that you need to think about ahead

00:46:34.294 –> 00:46:39.454
of time so that you’re just kind of processing the way that they look at self-defense.

00:46:39.674 –> 00:46:43.514
And again, I’m not giving legal advice. I’m not a lawyer. I don’t even pretend to be.

00:46:44.344 –> 00:46:49.784
But I think this is important because, you know, for guys, especially going

00:46:49.784 –> 00:46:51.944
back to the ego thing or anybody, right?

00:46:52.104 –> 00:46:56.504
It’s, well, I just see red when I get angry and I don’t need any physical training

00:46:56.504 –> 00:47:00.144
because I’m just going to go to work. I see red. Nothing’s going to stop me.

00:47:00.764 –> 00:47:04.164
Okay, well, when it comes to using self-defense, first of all,

00:47:04.304 –> 00:47:05.764
self-defense is a legal term.

00:47:06.224 –> 00:47:11.244
So things are already in a rough spot when you have to use that terminology in the first place.

00:47:11.244 –> 00:47:16.424
And then there’s a little something called the reasonable man doctrine that’s

00:47:16.424 –> 00:47:21.804
used substantially in court systems when defending self-defense.

00:47:21.844 –> 00:47:26.784
And you might hear it as reasonable person, just to be a little more PC,

00:47:26.924 –> 00:47:32.304
I suppose. But it’s referred to as the reasonable man doctrine or the reasonable person.

00:47:32.524 –> 00:47:36.964
And basically what that is, is everything is looked at from the viewpoint of.

00:47:37.744 –> 00:47:42.264
Okay, would someone else, a reasonable person,

00:47:42.724 –> 00:47:48.544
would someone else, given the exact same circumstances that you’ve presented

00:47:48.544 –> 00:47:53.284
for your case, would they have done it the same way?

00:47:53.284 –> 00:47:59.564
Would they see you having done what you did as being the way it needed to be handled?

00:47:59.864 –> 00:48:05.064
So there’s always exceptions to some of these, but just some things for you

00:48:05.064 –> 00:48:08.744
to keep in mind if you’re going to use self-defense as your argument.

00:48:09.244 –> 00:48:15.264
And again, it’s going to get put through the reasonable person ringer probably 100% of the time,

00:48:15.384 –> 00:48:20.364
but there are some exceptions to a few of these, But just four points that you

00:48:20.364 –> 00:48:24.344
need to think about when using self-defense as your argument.

00:48:24.904 –> 00:48:29.124
Were you confronted by an unprovoked attack?

00:48:29.364 –> 00:48:32.804
In other words, you weren’t the shitster. You weren’t the instigator.

00:48:33.024 –> 00:48:35.344
Was it an unprovoked attack?

00:48:35.724 –> 00:48:41.824
Can you prove that the threat of serious injury or death was imminent?

00:48:42.517 –> 00:48:49.097
Can you prove that the degree of force used was objectively reasonable?

00:48:49.457 –> 00:48:53.197
Again, there’s a lot of reasonable viewpoints of this stuff, right?

00:48:53.537 –> 00:48:56.677
So did you use appropriate level of force?

00:48:56.797 –> 00:49:00.497
In other words, if someone slaps you across the face at the gas station,

00:49:00.697 –> 00:49:03.897
you can’t pull out your concealed carry and shoot them in the head.

00:49:04.117 –> 00:49:07.337
Pretty much guarantee that it’s going to be an automatic go to jail ticket for

00:49:07.337 –> 00:49:11.237
you. So was the degree of force reasonable?

00:49:12.057 –> 00:49:17.497
And, you know, there’s exceptions to disparity in force. I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole.

00:49:17.797 –> 00:49:21.377
Again, I’m telling you this just to encourage you to go and look up more because

00:49:21.377 –> 00:49:25.217
there are exceptions, there are angles, there’s a lot of examples out there

00:49:25.217 –> 00:49:27.737
for you to mull over and kind of wrap your head around.

00:49:28.857 –> 00:49:35.757
But the last one, the fourth one is, did you have an objectively reasonable

00:49:35.757 –> 00:49:40.737
fear that you were going to suffer serious injury?

00:49:41.237 –> 00:49:46.157
Or be killed unless you did self-defense for yourself.

00:49:46.437 –> 00:49:50.757
So that kind of ties back into was injury or death imminent.

00:49:51.402 –> 00:49:57.322
But did you have objectively reasonable fear that serious injury or death was

00:49:57.322 –> 00:50:00.502
going to occur and therefore you needed to defend yourself?

00:50:00.702 –> 00:50:06.162
Now, I will also tell you that this old thing that I hear guys citing all the

00:50:06.162 –> 00:50:10.062
time is all I got to say, man, is I feared for my life. I feared for my life.

00:50:10.202 –> 00:50:12.922
That’s all I had to do, man. I feared for my life. So I shot him,

00:50:13.122 –> 00:50:14.282
right, or whatever it is.

00:50:14.462 –> 00:50:18.782
I shot him to stop the threat, you know, whatever. I feared for my life.

00:50:19.262 –> 00:50:25.082
That in and of itself is not an argument that’s going to hold any water in court.

00:50:25.562 –> 00:50:31.202
Yes, there’s a lot more facets to it than that that can be brought out and built upon.

00:50:31.522 –> 00:50:37.782
But the notion, just get it out of your head right now, you can’t simply say, I fear for my life.

00:50:37.942 –> 00:50:42.122
That doesn’t cut it. And again, we’re kind of talking about when we go to tools

00:50:42.122 –> 00:50:45.322
and not just necessarily social fights, whatever,

00:50:45.542 –> 00:50:49.602
but, you know, we’re dealing here when we talk about how do I know when it’s

00:50:49.602 –> 00:50:56.462
time to go, we’re talking about social fights as well as predatory situations too, right?

00:50:56.562 –> 00:50:59.242
So it always depends. But those are the things.

00:50:59.562 –> 00:51:05.262
Can I prove that it was unprovoked? I had nothing to do with starting this argument.

00:51:05.262 –> 00:51:11.382
That’s why it’s so important to keep that ego in check and keep the hot temper in check, right?

00:51:11.602 –> 00:51:14.082
You don’t want to be seen as the aggressor.

00:51:14.754 –> 00:51:19.954
Was the was serious injury or death imminent?

00:51:20.254 –> 00:51:25.734
Can I prove that? And again, we’ve we’ve talked about using self-defense as

00:51:25.734 –> 00:51:29.914
an argument. And was the degree of force reasonable?

00:51:30.194 –> 00:51:34.394
Right. Was it a proportion? You’ll hear the terminology proportionate proportional

00:51:34.394 –> 00:51:39.774
force was did the force you responded with equal what they came at you with?

00:51:39.774 –> 00:51:42.734
Again, if they slap you in the face, you can’t shoot them in the head.

00:51:43.214 –> 00:51:46.614
A gun shouldn’t even come out until the last resort anyway.

00:51:47.494 –> 00:51:50.934
And then did you have a reasonable fear that you were going to be seriously

00:51:50.934 –> 00:51:55.374
injured or killed unless you defended yourself?

00:51:55.654 –> 00:51:59.414
And so those are just some things. I know I’ve kind of slaughtered all that,

00:51:59.734 –> 00:52:02.734
probably worse than I wanted to for you.

00:52:02.854 –> 00:52:07.694
But I’m hoping that I’ve encouraged you or this will encourage you to go out

00:52:07.694 –> 00:52:11.434
and learn more for yourself. So you kind of understands the ins and outs,

00:52:11.594 –> 00:52:15.474
but certainly the legal aspects comes into play.

00:52:15.494 –> 00:52:21.054
If nothing else, the perpetrator’s parents will sue you in civil for civil reasons, right?

00:52:21.314 –> 00:52:25.714
In today’s litigious society. So legalities have to be thought about.

00:52:25.894 –> 00:52:29.954
And it really helps if you know more ahead of time than after the fact.

00:52:31.048 –> 00:52:35.668
So with that, I want to wrap things up. I want to leave you with one quote that

00:52:35.668 –> 00:52:40.068
I love, and it dates me a little bit, but this is a quote from Thornton Mellon.

00:52:40.248 –> 00:52:43.928
And if you know who he is, I’m dating myself, but hopefully you will.

00:52:44.248 –> 00:52:50.688
And this is kind of my philosophy in life in general is Thornton Mellon said, I’m not a fighter.

00:52:50.968 –> 00:52:53.688
I’m a lover. And with that, I’ll leave you.

00:52:53.928 –> 00:52:57.068
Tony, thanks so much for being the inspiration for this podcast.

00:52:57.068 –> 00:52:59.928
And hopefully you guys got something out of it again this time.

00:52:59.928 –> 00:53:03.268
Go back to listen to podcast 25

00:53:03.268 –> 00:53:08.768
26 and 40 those all work very nicely with what we’ve talked about here today

00:53:08.768 –> 00:53:12.748
and i appreciate you listening if you’re getting anything out of our podcast

00:53:12.748 –> 00:53:17.968
please tell your friends and family to have a listen and give us a rating the

00:53:17.968 –> 00:53:21.368
next time you have a chance and follow us on instagram if you’re not already.