1
00:00:00,000 –> 00:00:11,600
Music.

2
00:00:11,444 –> 00:00:15,464
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

3
00:00:15,964 –> 00:00:20,364
I’m your host, Jim O’Brien. This episode, we talk about meditation,

4
00:00:20,704 –> 00:00:25,464
when and where meditation can be used and how to incorporate it into your lives,

5
00:00:25,664 –> 00:00:27,764
its place in martial arts.

6
00:00:27,964 –> 00:00:32,344
And then if we have time towards the end of this, we may teach you a technique

7
00:00:32,344 –> 00:00:38,944
or few to help ease you into meditation. Today, we talked to Dr.

8
00:00:39,104 –> 00:00:43,324
Neal Lundgren, mentor and life coach about the subject of meditation.

9
00:00:43,904 –> 00:00:47,484
How are you, Neal? I’m doing fine, Jim. How are you today?

10
00:00:47,704 –> 00:00:51,424
I’m good. I’m excited for us to finally get together and do this,

11
00:00:51,484 –> 00:00:54,704
and I appreciate your time here, especially right before the holidays.

12
00:00:55,264 –> 00:00:59,664
My pleasure. In fact, right before the Christmas holidays,

13
00:00:59,964 –> 00:01:04,924
this is often a good time to speak of things like stress-reducing techniques

14
00:01:04,924 –> 00:01:13,004
or meditation in a world that seems to be gearing up, and not only for the holidays,

15
00:01:13,164 –> 00:01:19,584
but gearing up in this particular year of 2018 moving into 2019. 19th.

16
00:01:19,824 –> 00:01:27,364
So I think we’re needing these ways of being, these ways of interacting with

17
00:01:27,364 –> 00:01:34,084
the world from a place of centeredness, needing these techniques even more than we did five years ago.

18
00:01:34,304 –> 00:01:38,004
Yeah. And you bring up an excellent point for whatever the reason,

19
00:01:38,044 –> 00:01:43,484
the irony, I guess, that at the holidays, our stress levels can be higher than normal.

20
00:01:43,644 –> 00:01:50,264
I know mine is this year, So I’m hoping to be able to take a walk from today as well. I need to relax.

21
00:01:50,684 –> 00:01:55,724
So before we get started, let’s talk about you for a second.

22
00:01:55,764 –> 00:02:01,124
I generally like to have guests talk about themselves, their background, their experience, etc.

23
00:02:03,084 –> 00:02:08,284
Sure. Well, let’s see. Why don’t we just put it in a few parts here very quickly.

24
00:02:08,564 –> 00:02:12,444
As a young man, I was a recording artist for Columbia Records.

25
00:02:12,444 –> 00:02:16,284
And then later with Capitol Records, I was in a group called Man Child.

26
00:02:17,424 –> 00:02:22,384
And he’s a few decades ago here. But in my youth, I was a professional musician,

27
00:02:22,684 –> 00:02:23,944
singer, songwriter, et cetera.

28
00:02:24,924 –> 00:02:32,524
And it was during that time period, Jim, where I was in a place of, I would say, success.

29
00:02:33,124 –> 00:02:38,544
And I felt a lack of meaning in what I was doing.

30
00:02:38,544 –> 00:02:43,804
I remember even having, it wasn’t exactly a specific vision,

31
00:02:43,964 –> 00:02:51,304
but there was this idea or this intuition that kept gnawing at me in my second

32
00:02:51,304 –> 00:02:55,084
or third year of being on the road with my band.

33
00:02:55,084 –> 00:03:00,624
And I was saying to myself, you know, I could see myself playing in theme parks

34
00:03:00,624 –> 00:03:07,944
25 years from now, my old songs, and this really doesn’t feel right.

35
00:03:09,149 –> 00:03:14,109
Rich enough. And I began reading the works of Hermann Hesse,

36
00:03:14,349 –> 00:03:16,989
Dostoevsky told a story, interesting Europeans,

37
00:03:17,389 –> 00:03:23,269
I don’t know why necessarily save the fact that these writings were considered

38
00:03:23,269 –> 00:03:25,449
ingenious writings of the human soul.

39
00:03:25,849 –> 00:03:30,329
And so I was engaged in these even while on the road.

40
00:03:31,029 –> 00:03:35,229
Eventually, I decided to enter a monastery.

41
00:03:35,829 –> 00:03:39,009
And I entered. so you go from

42
00:03:39,009 –> 00:03:42,009
and man child was kind of rock

43
00:03:42,009 –> 00:03:45,049
and roll folk yes exactly it

44
00:03:45,049 –> 00:03:49,049
was a singer it was the american reach music movement in

45
00:03:49,049 –> 00:03:52,469
the 70s and so yeah go ahead

46
00:03:52,469 –> 00:03:55,909
no so you go from that to

47
00:03:55,909 –> 00:04:02,809
a monastery and amazing extremes i i know i know we’ll talk about you know feeling

48
00:04:02,809 –> 00:04:09,529
a lot of and sometimes as positive stress and I loved what I was doing as a

49
00:04:09,529 –> 00:04:15,029
musician but I had this desire to what can I say,

50
00:04:15,169 –> 00:04:19,929
go within I had this desire to walk in solitude with some,

51
00:04:21,009 –> 00:04:27,749
deep others who were doing the same thing I did have a background in religion.

52
00:04:28,869 –> 00:04:33,149
Catholicism but I had left that as a musician,

53
00:04:33,369 –> 00:04:37,869
left that path left the path of religion, but this was more of the path of spirituality

54
00:04:37,869 –> 00:04:44,189
and finding somehow the peace within the self. And that’s what I was really looking for.

55
00:04:44,609 –> 00:04:48,849
So I entered a monastery in the north woods of Minnesota.

56
00:04:49,029 –> 00:04:55,409
It would be 67 degrees below zero in the winter. It really secluded space.

57
00:04:56,269 –> 00:05:01,529
And I was there including seminary and monastery. I was there around seven years.

58
00:05:02,349 –> 00:05:10,289
And I accrued a lot of experience, I would say, in the solitary life,

59
00:05:10,509 –> 00:05:14,909
the communal life as well, but very basic. I didn’t wear a watch.

60
00:05:15,329 –> 00:05:19,289
My time was the time of church bell.

61
00:05:19,609 –> 00:05:26,549
I spent a lot of time in nature, taking walks, of course, meditating and learning skills in meditation.

62
00:05:26,769 –> 00:05:32,509
It was there, in fact, that I was introduced to a lot of Eastern thought while

63
00:05:32,509 –> 00:05:36,969
in the monastery was very open thinking monastery.

64
00:05:38,229 –> 00:05:42,749
And I did begin there to move a bit eastward,

65
00:05:43,853 –> 00:05:48,693
in my thinking and in my reading. That would be the second sort of phase.

66
00:05:48,793 –> 00:05:54,393
The third phase, I spent a couple of years in Chappellwood carrying water,

67
00:05:54,633 –> 00:06:00,033
and I got a job with a high school teaching.

68
00:06:00,473 –> 00:06:07,273
And it was actually at that school where I was teaching students the Bhagavad

69
00:06:07,273 –> 00:06:13,393
Gita text, Hindu text, 1,000 or 2,000 years old.

70
00:06:13,853 –> 00:06:19,333
And that began to interest me even more in Eastern thought, Eastern meditation.

71
00:06:20,693 –> 00:06:26,293
And then from there, I entered a doctoral program at an university in Atlanta.

72
00:06:26,413 –> 00:06:29,253
That’s how I came to live here.

73
00:06:29,673 –> 00:06:37,933
And I entered a doctoral program in philosophy, psychology, and religious experience.

74
00:06:37,933 –> 00:06:43,413
Experience or interrelated those fields and thought I would be going the academic

75
00:06:43,413 –> 00:06:46,713
path after I finished my dissertation or while I was writing it,

76
00:06:46,733 –> 00:06:55,713
but got an opportunity to work at a treatment center with 12-step program and got a job there.

77
00:06:55,973 –> 00:07:02,653
And that’s where I ended up becoming enthralled with life lessons,

78
00:07:02,733 –> 00:07:08,093
with actually mentoring touring from the ground up, body, soul, spirit, mind.

79
00:07:09,173 –> 00:07:12,833
With not patients, but clients, students.

80
00:07:13,273 –> 00:07:19,933
So I was finishing my doctorate, writing my doctorate on the creative potentials

81
00:07:19,933 –> 00:07:21,253
of psychosis and neurosis.

82
00:07:21,853 –> 00:07:28,313
But rather than going the route of the academic world, I went more to the clinical

83
00:07:28,313 –> 00:07:35,653
world and received gainful employment from this place called Ridgeview Institute,

84
00:07:35,833 –> 00:07:41,173
where I was there for about seven years as the spiritual counselor and the eventual

85
00:07:41,173 –> 00:07:42,693
spiritual director of the hospital.

86
00:07:43,453 –> 00:07:51,293
And for me, that was a path that I knew deep down I would not waver from in

87
00:07:51,293 –> 00:07:55,193
terms of the kind of teaching I became interested in doing.

88
00:07:55,193 –> 00:07:58,553
So rather than intellectual or academic teaching,

89
00:07:58,913 –> 00:08:04,273
it became enthralling to me to be able to interface the heart,

90
00:08:04,293 –> 00:08:09,553
the soul, the mind, the body, the health and well-being in all those aspects

91
00:08:09,553 –> 00:08:11,913
and dimensions. And I never looked back.

92
00:08:12,873 –> 00:08:19,253
Sure. And when you were in your academia, how did meditation play a role for you there?

93
00:08:19,393 –> 00:08:22,773
Or were you into it that seriously yet?

94
00:08:23,598 –> 00:08:31,238
That’s a good question. Of course, I had accrued meditation skills in the monastic

95
00:08:31,238 –> 00:08:36,398
life, but when I went into academic life,

96
00:08:36,638 –> 00:08:38,638
I literally left that behind.

97
00:08:38,898 –> 00:08:42,198
I did not really even maintain a practice.

98
00:08:42,718 –> 00:08:46,698
I just really got into my head and into studies.

99
00:08:47,098 –> 00:08:53,678
I know if you talk to anyone who’s in a doctoral program, it’s all consumed.

100
00:08:54,058 –> 00:08:59,978
Not to say that I couldn’t have, you know, awakened in the morning. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

101
00:09:00,358 –> 00:09:05,678
But I just wasn’t, I took a break. I took a hiatus.

102
00:09:06,458 –> 00:09:12,798
And I don’t think I was really inward outside and inward in my head and exploration

103
00:09:12,798 –> 00:09:20,398
and understanding psychological principles and moving more to those dynamics.

104
00:09:20,798 –> 00:09:26,878
So it was introspective, but not, I would say, at all as deeply as I had experienced as a monk.

105
00:09:27,318 –> 00:09:34,938
But once I got into the clinical world and was asked to teach meditation and

106
00:09:34,938 –> 00:09:37,918
asked to teach from a variety of disciplines,

107
00:09:38,238 –> 00:09:42,538
then, of course, it re-entered my life.

108
00:09:42,838 –> 00:09:51,978
Sure. So that’s a good question. And I’ve not let go of that desire or need

109
00:09:51,978 –> 00:09:54,638
to live a meditative life,

110
00:09:54,938 –> 00:09:58,818
which I think is more important than just a practice of meditation.

111
00:09:59,378 –> 00:10:04,518
We can talk about that. Yeah, sure. And I know we’ve talked about this before.

112
00:10:04,578 –> 00:10:08,138
We both have some experience and background in martial arts.

113
00:10:08,178 –> 00:10:12,598
I think you’ve got a little bit more experience with Eastern martial arts than I.

114
00:10:12,778 –> 00:10:16,818
But talk about your experience with martial arts, what you’ve done,

115
00:10:16,998 –> 00:10:21,758
what you have experience in, and then how meditations fit into that for you.

116
00:10:22,338 –> 00:10:29,178
Okay, that’s another big question, Jim. When I started at this hospital of working

117
00:10:29,178 –> 00:10:36,178
with clients who had to totally shift their lives and redirect their lives from the ground up,

118
00:10:36,458 –> 00:10:43,558
I felt inside even for myself, continued to reconnect, reconnect,

119
00:10:43,758 –> 00:10:45,758
reconnect with the body.

120
00:10:45,758 –> 00:10:49,558
That it wasn’t only about mind, or one could say mind, soul,

121
00:10:49,758 –> 00:10:53,158
or heart, but it was also about grounding in the body.

122
00:10:53,358 –> 00:10:59,238
And it was the martial arts, my introduction, that really assisted that one way.

123
00:10:59,658 –> 00:11:02,118
At first, it was just a book I had read.

124
00:11:03,263 –> 00:11:07,743
The book by Mori Hayashiba, the founder of Aikido, this book called Abundant

125
00:11:07,743 –> 00:11:10,023
Peace, and was blown away by it.

126
00:11:10,303 –> 00:11:13,743
Realized that there were a few dojos in Atlanta who were actually teaching things.

127
00:11:13,983 –> 00:11:20,963
So I went to a dojo, Aikido dojo in Atlanta, and I was looking at the forms

128
00:11:20,963 –> 00:11:27,923
and the interaction as these martial artists were engaged in this dance of Aikido.

129
00:11:28,423 –> 00:11:32,203
And I went, okay, I’m going to do that. I want to, I really,

130
00:11:32,303 –> 00:11:36,923
this feels really, really healthy and vibrant to me.

131
00:11:37,283 –> 00:11:40,383
And so I did it for about two or three years.

132
00:11:40,823 –> 00:11:46,443
I only went through two or three cues. A cue is a, they don’t have belts or anything like that.

133
00:11:46,483 –> 00:11:52,523
You can move all the way to the highest cue for, then you become quote unquote a sensei.

134
00:11:52,863 –> 00:11:57,683
But I did work with the Quito, loved it, got a lot from it.

135
00:11:57,823 –> 00:12:01,103
I love the the engagement of it, the vibrancy of it.

136
00:12:01,163 –> 00:12:05,883
And I loved the spirit of Morihei Ueshiba that you could feel on the mat.

137
00:12:06,823 –> 00:12:11,643
At that point, I moved from there to Tai Chi Chuan, to Tai Chi.

138
00:12:12,083 –> 00:12:15,603
Did the long and short form, but only for about a year.

139
00:12:15,763 –> 00:12:20,543
For me, it was a bit impractical. I liked the quote-unquote soft martial art

140
00:12:20,543 –> 00:12:23,643
aspect of it, the meditative aspect of it.

141
00:12:23,643 –> 00:12:29,703
But where I found it didn’t, it seemed too orchestrated, too,

142
00:12:29,883 –> 00:12:37,243
almost as if it was too, there’s too much baggage in all the forms.

143
00:12:38,343 –> 00:12:42,263
And you’d have to have a park to even do it. I couldn’t, it was not,

144
00:12:42,283 –> 00:12:43,323
it’s totally impractical.

145
00:12:43,443 –> 00:12:46,603
I couldn’t even do it in my office with clients because I’d have to open three

146
00:12:46,603 –> 00:12:49,643
doors just to, you know. Have enough room.

147
00:12:49,803 –> 00:12:57,623
Once I have enough room. So that was not long-lasting. But then I met a teacher who –.

148
00:12:58,717 –> 00:13:02,317
I’m still at this very, very engaged with 25 years later.

149
00:13:03,377 –> 00:13:10,517
And I’ve been practicing for a long, long time, almost that length of time, Qigong.

150
00:13:10,957 –> 00:13:18,437
And it’s called a number of things. If you Google it, it’s Qigong, Qigong, Qigong.

151
00:13:18,657 –> 00:13:25,757
And there’s this sort of elision or coincidence of Japanese and Chinese.

152
00:13:25,757 –> 00:13:28,717
But chi chi kung

153
00:13:28,717 –> 00:13:32,097
is is the most correct and that

154
00:13:32,097 –> 00:13:36,157
would be the practice of energy okay the chi

155
00:13:36,157 –> 00:13:39,417
you know is energy prawn spirit called

156
00:13:39,417 –> 00:13:42,877
the number of things ki and japanese and she

157
00:13:42,877 –> 00:13:46,117
is energy subtle energy and kung

158
00:13:46,117 –> 00:13:49,537
is the practice of the practice of that energy

159
00:13:49,537 –> 00:13:52,957
and moving that energy and that has

160
00:13:52,957 –> 00:13:56,217
stuck with me over the years and i’ve introduced a number of

161
00:13:56,217 –> 00:13:58,977
clients into that practice as a moving

162
00:13:58,977 –> 00:14:01,857
meditation especially clients that don’t seem to

163
00:14:01,857 –> 00:14:05,937
be able to fit in one place for but right

164
00:14:05,937 –> 00:14:11,437
but you know some for some folks sitting meditation is problematic yeah hard

165
00:14:11,437 –> 00:14:15,457
to sit still for more than five minutes it’s hard to sit yeah exactly but with

166
00:14:15,457 –> 00:14:22,677
qigong basically the raising of the arms and the descending of the arms, there are some,

167
00:14:22,957 –> 00:14:25,137
it’s very yoga-like.

168
00:14:25,537 –> 00:14:30,637
The katas, the forms are extremely empowering in terms of breath,

169
00:14:30,817 –> 00:14:36,057
centering in what they call the dantian, the elixir fields, shen,

170
00:14:36,057 –> 00:14:40,517
the upper dantian, chi, the middle dantian, and jing, the lower dantian, et cetera.

171
00:14:40,517 –> 00:14:47,777
But this engagement of the flow of energy and even working with microcosmic orbit,

172
00:14:48,037 –> 00:14:52,897
moving up the back, down the stomach and breathing in and breathing out,

173
00:14:52,917 –> 00:14:58,537
it’s a wonderful way, I think, of intervening.

174
00:14:59,797 –> 00:15:05,357
On the thoughts of the future, thoughts of the past, obsessing with thoughts

175
00:15:05,357 –> 00:15:10,597
that create the negative stress hormone, cortisol.

176
00:15:11,737 –> 00:15:15,737
It’s okay for a while and we need it. We’re under stress and that’s why our

177
00:15:15,737 –> 00:15:17,617
brain chemical is created.

178
00:15:17,857 –> 00:15:22,497
But after a while, it could really even induce more stress than alleviate it.

179
00:15:22,837 –> 00:15:26,297
And what happens when we can intervene on the thought process,

180
00:15:26,297 –> 00:15:32,977
then we can become present, open body, open mind, open heart.

181
00:15:33,217 –> 00:15:40,577
And Qigong is one of the ways to facilitate that movement into presence,

182
00:15:41,477 –> 00:15:48,437
that movement into the awareness of the breath, the awareness of locating oneself

183
00:15:48,437 –> 00:15:55,277
in the body, not only the physical body, but shall we say the energy body or the soul body.

184
00:15:55,277 –> 00:15:59,857
And is that the concept of becoming, you know, we’ve heard through movies and

185
00:15:59,857 –> 00:16:03,777
other sources, is that the concept of getting or becoming centered?

186
00:16:04,817 –> 00:16:09,317
Yes, it’s a second or two away. You know, becoming centered means,

187
00:16:09,457 –> 00:16:10,517
you know, it’s always there.

188
00:16:10,577 –> 00:16:13,297
Presence is there, but we’re not there with presence.

189
00:16:13,837 –> 00:16:19,497
Sure. And presence is really about this consent.

190
00:16:22,312 –> 00:16:27,232
To be in the moment, not the superficial moment, but the moment of flow,

191
00:16:27,492 –> 00:16:32,532
the moment of the breath, of the inhale and exhale of the breath where we’re

192
00:16:32,532 –> 00:16:34,412
not in our head and not in our thoughts.

193
00:16:35,012 –> 00:16:41,472
So it really does go beyond relaxation techniques and stress reduction.

194
00:16:41,792 –> 00:16:45,212
It’s quite deeper.

195
00:16:45,852 –> 00:16:49,792
Quite deeper. In fact, the whole stress reduction aspect,

196
00:16:49,792 –> 00:16:53,912
expect this is all preparation for presence and

197
00:16:53,912 –> 00:16:57,072
or or sometimes a symptom actually not only

198
00:16:57,072 –> 00:17:00,072
preparation for prep but it’s a symptom so if we’re

199
00:17:00,072 –> 00:17:04,572
present and we’re not worried about the future or we’re not resentful about

200
00:17:04,572 –> 00:17:10,632
the past then what will happen is we will be more in that moment and the moment

201
00:17:10,632 –> 00:17:17,512
of the that we experienced ideally as a child when we were children we didn’t

202
00:17:17,512 –> 00:17:18,872
have We didn’t have the clock.

203
00:17:19,012 –> 00:17:21,492
We didn’t have where we had to be. We didn’t have bills.

204
00:17:21,672 –> 00:17:26,952
We didn’t have all of these responsibilities and accountabilities other than just being.

205
00:17:27,452 –> 00:17:30,212
And we didn’t have egos either. That’s right.

206
00:17:30,492 –> 00:17:34,192
I mean, certainly even by age two, you know, we have, you know,

207
00:17:34,192 –> 00:17:40,032
the fact the ego emerges and the sense of I, the self of self will comes in,

208
00:17:40,152 –> 00:17:46,832
but there’s a sense of play that we’ve lost that a child, when we were children,

209
00:17:46,992 –> 00:17:48,992
we, we had more naturally.

210
00:17:49,232 –> 00:17:53,272
And now, obviously there are children that are, you know, born in stressful

211
00:17:53,272 –> 00:18:00,232
situations with, with mom and Granddads are in divorce and all sorts of drama.

212
00:18:00,432 –> 00:18:02,332
So I don’t want to idealize childhood.

213
00:18:02,572 –> 00:18:09,612
But there is an energy in a child, even a child that is in a stress-produced environment.

214
00:18:09,632 –> 00:18:17,292
There’s an energy in a child that almost has this capacity to be here now.

215
00:18:18,675 –> 00:18:27,735
As Ram Dass taught years ago, to be here now, capacity, a resilience that adults

216
00:18:27,735 –> 00:18:29,015
don’t seem to have as well.

217
00:18:29,215 –> 00:18:34,495
We almost have to relearn it. In the moment. In the moment. In moment by moment.

218
00:18:34,915 –> 00:18:40,035
So we’ve talked about some of the superficial benefits of meditating and that

219
00:18:40,035 –> 00:18:42,035
leading to something much deeper.

220
00:18:42,695 –> 00:18:48,735
What have you personally experienced? What benefits have you experienced in your meditating?

221
00:18:49,135 –> 00:18:53,155
Well, since we just talked about Qigong and the moving meditation.

222
00:18:54,455 –> 00:19:02,995
My sense about this practice, it has helped me with just overall sense of well-being,

223
00:19:03,035 –> 00:19:07,395
but it’s actually strengthened my back,

224
00:19:07,595 –> 00:19:14,455
has allowed me to feel this overall vitality,

225
00:19:14,915 –> 00:19:20,375
that no other, and I work out, you know, five, six days a week in terms of cardio and weights,

226
00:19:21,095 –> 00:19:29,875
but Qigong has produced for me a sense of strength and vitality that no other exercise has produced.

227
00:19:30,355 –> 00:19:33,595
And that, you know, gives positive energy.

228
00:19:33,855 –> 00:19:37,175
Mentally, it’s been more wonderful. It’s like a natural antidepressant.

229
00:19:37,375 –> 00:19:42,375
Now, in terms of sitting meditation, there are a number of methods that I’ve

230
00:19:42,375 –> 00:19:44,515
learned over the years, and I’ve been meditating for many years.

231
00:19:44,915 –> 00:19:58,515
I would say that one most profound of meditations comes from Tibetan Buddhism via Shogyal Rinpoche.

232
00:20:00,230 –> 00:20:07,690
And that is the meditation, the simple meditation of bringing the awareness,

233
00:20:07,810 –> 00:20:12,750
Jim, to the breath, the subtleties of every breath,

234
00:20:12,970 –> 00:20:19,630
and following that breath where the awareness and the breath begin to collide

235
00:20:19,630 –> 00:20:25,750
so closely that one has a sense almost of becoming that breath.

236
00:20:26,030 –> 00:20:31,250
It’s very natural. There’s no hocus-pocus piece to it. It’s not about this or

237
00:20:31,250 –> 00:20:33,850
that mantra or yantra or visualization.

238
00:20:34,230 –> 00:20:37,570
It’s not even pranayama in terms of control, breath control,

239
00:20:37,770 –> 00:20:39,750
et cetera, fire breath or water breath.

240
00:20:39,870 –> 00:20:47,030
None of that. It literally is this natural following of each of your breaths

241
00:20:47,030 –> 00:20:48,650
that are unique in and of themselves.

242
00:20:50,170 –> 00:20:55,950
And that natural meditation of sitting, just sitting with the awareness with

243
00:20:55,950 –> 00:21:01,530
the breath has, Because I think for me, when all is said and done is the most

244
00:21:01,530 –> 00:21:03,410
natural and the most powerful.

245
00:21:03,990 –> 00:21:08,410
Now, there are other methods of meditation, like, for instance,

246
00:21:08,530 –> 00:21:11,410
mantra meditation, where one receives a mantra.

247
00:21:11,870 –> 00:21:16,970
TM, for instance, the TM movement, and I have received a TM mantra,

248
00:21:17,230 –> 00:21:19,350
Transcendental Meditation mantra.

249
00:21:19,570 –> 00:21:24,550
And those mantras, they have vibrations that are associated with that particular

250
00:21:24,550 –> 00:21:26,530
word, that Sanskrit word.

251
00:21:26,850 –> 00:21:34,010
And that was for years a very powerful method as well. And it allowed for focus.

252
00:21:34,570 –> 00:21:40,350
So one could breathe in with that mantra, inhale the mantra,

253
00:21:40,470 –> 00:21:43,570
sometimes dividing it in two on the inhale and exhale.

254
00:21:43,570 –> 00:21:46,510
Fail and that would be a wonderful way of intervening on the

255
00:21:46,510 –> 00:21:50,030
future the past thoughts feelings etc and just

256
00:21:50,030 –> 00:21:53,610
moving with that vibration of you

257
00:21:53,610 –> 00:21:58,830
know words do have vibrations associated with them and that was a very very

258
00:21:58,830 –> 00:22:06,490
powerful one as a monk a very powerful modality of meditation is reading and

259
00:22:06,490 –> 00:22:11,070
this could be any scripture it could be uh you know a scripture from the east East, West,

260
00:22:11,370 –> 00:22:18,690
doesn’t really matter, but by scripture written by sages who accrued a lot of

261
00:22:18,690 –> 00:22:21,250
awareness and love in their lives.

262
00:22:22,150 –> 00:22:26,250
That you read some of the scripture, especially in the ancient language itself,

263
00:22:26,390 –> 00:22:31,890
and then you would read, let’s say, a passage or a paragraph,

264
00:22:32,070 –> 00:22:36,270
and then you would read maybe four words, And then you would,

265
00:22:36,270 –> 00:22:44,230
you know, reflect on those, but then move deeper to one word and one word you’re attracted to.

266
00:22:44,590 –> 00:22:50,230
You’re not overanalyzing it. And then that one word, you begin breathing in and breathing out.

267
00:22:50,890 –> 00:22:54,390
And then you go into silence, into the heart.

268
00:22:55,594 –> 00:23:02,294
And only use that word to anchor you, to anchor you back in a centered way in the presence.

269
00:23:02,714 –> 00:23:07,194
And that was very powerful. But the whole point of all of this,

270
00:23:07,334 –> 00:23:14,154
and even as a monk, ora et mabora, to pray and to work, to meditate and to work, was the motto that St.

271
00:23:14,194 –> 00:23:18,974
Benedict of the 6th century developed his monastery around.

272
00:23:18,974 –> 00:23:28,414
I felt a wonderful vibrancy in that gym where I would bring my meditative practice

273
00:23:28,414 –> 00:23:33,714
into the daily life, whether that was working in fields,

274
00:23:34,074 –> 00:23:38,194
vegetable garden, whether that was teaching in the university,

275
00:23:38,454 –> 00:23:42,734
walking along the path or cleaning the latrines.

276
00:23:42,734 –> 00:23:47,354
We had to do everyday jobs as well to maintain.

277
00:23:48,794 –> 00:23:55,294
Keep up the place. Keep up the place. But having a sense of presence in the

278
00:23:55,294 –> 00:24:02,554
moment of whatever you are doing, and whoever you’re with, this meditative life,

279
00:24:02,974 –> 00:24:04,834
that’s really what all this is about.

280
00:24:05,734 –> 00:24:09,034
To compartmentalize and just to say, well, over here I’m meditating.

281
00:24:09,034 –> 00:24:15,994
And then if it has no effect on one’s life of creating a bit more of serenity,

282
00:24:16,074 –> 00:24:22,254
a little bit more of emotional mastery over our triggers that,

283
00:24:22,294 –> 00:24:26,554
you know, whether we’re triggered in a grocery line or whether we’re triggered

284
00:24:26,554 –> 00:24:33,174
in car and in traffic or whether we are trying to deal with AT&T.

285
00:24:33,574 –> 00:24:38,974
Right. Right. You know, whatever, whether we’re. Need some meditation after that. That’s right.

286
00:24:40,494 –> 00:24:43,694
Well, the key is to live meditatively during.

287
00:24:44,194 –> 00:24:49,794
And that’s the litmus test. Whenever whatever is going on, we’re getting curveballs,

288
00:24:49,854 –> 00:24:53,134
minefields. This is what being in the world is about.

289
00:24:53,254 –> 00:24:56,694
It’s a place of lightness, and it’s a place of darkness.

290
00:24:57,394 –> 00:24:59,514
And we can bring that light.

291
00:25:00,600 –> 00:25:07,480
We can make ourselves available to that light at any moment.

292
00:25:08,840 –> 00:25:13,820
Meditation or meditative centeredness is a second away, is a couple of seconds away.

293
00:25:14,260 –> 00:25:18,780
I think that’s a really good point because I think people, myself included,

294
00:25:18,960 –> 00:25:23,200
generally think about the act of meditation, whatever that is.

295
00:25:23,200 –> 00:25:30,420
Maybe they have some familiarity with meditating on some level or some form of meditation,

296
00:25:30,800 –> 00:25:37,920
but I think what you are saying or have said is that the goal of the act of

297
00:25:37,920 –> 00:25:44,120
meditation is get to the point where you can walk through and face the ins and

298
00:25:44,120 –> 00:25:49,020
outs of daily life because you remain in a more meditative,

299
00:25:49,120 –> 00:25:51,660
relaxed state of being.

300
00:25:52,340 –> 00:25:57,340
That is right on. Because, you know, we’re trying to find our outlets,

301
00:25:57,600 –> 00:26:01,500
whether it’s a walk in the woods like myself, being outdoors in the woods,

302
00:26:01,520 –> 00:26:04,540
camping, whether it’s shooting your bow and arrow,

303
00:26:04,840 –> 00:26:07,660
doing exercise or martial arts.

304
00:26:07,880 –> 00:26:13,740
Whatever that outlet is to make us feel more centered, to help us de-stress.

305
00:26:13,740 –> 00:26:19,440
But ultimately the goal is to get us to a point where we find ourselves in that

306
00:26:19,440 –> 00:26:24,400
more relaxed state more often times than not.

307
00:26:25,040 –> 00:26:29,180
Absolutely. There you go. Not about taking the quick fix pill in the moment

308
00:26:29,180 –> 00:26:31,220
and feeling better for that moment in time.

309
00:26:31,240 –> 00:26:35,480
But ultimately the goal of meditation is the longterm state of being.

310
00:26:36,260 –> 00:26:41,160
Exactly. And that I don’t forget the master who said it, Jim, but I.

311
00:26:42,262 –> 00:26:48,162
He said it this way, or she, I’m not, whoever this was, but it stayed with me.

312
00:26:48,222 –> 00:26:53,482
And that is meditation is not a practice, ultimately.

313
00:26:54,062 –> 00:26:58,782
Meditation is not even a state of being, ultimately.

314
00:26:59,562 –> 00:27:01,062
Meditation is who we are.

315
00:27:02,842 –> 00:27:06,982
It is the essence of human existence.

316
00:27:07,542 –> 00:27:10,722
But we’re human doings, for the most part.

317
00:27:10,722 –> 00:27:14,282
Human being is literally an

318
00:27:14,282 –> 00:27:17,482
achievement human being is a

319
00:27:17,482 –> 00:27:20,502
goal but for the most part

320
00:27:20,502 –> 00:27:27,162
we see around us human doings so i even we say well i’m a human being well not

321
00:27:27,162 –> 00:27:36,522
really i’m a human doing until I can get to a place where I can relocate to

322
00:27:36,522 –> 00:27:38,802
that very simple and natural,

323
00:27:39,662 –> 00:27:48,522
essence of Who I am yeah and that is really the essence of presence we are all

324
00:27:48,522 –> 00:27:52,922
ultimately presence knowing that we’re presence and that is the

325
00:27:53,002 –> 00:27:57,922
difference, shall we say, between ourselves and animals.

326
00:27:58,682 –> 00:28:05,482
Animals are, in fact, sometimes we know, we perceive, they are far more pure,

327
00:28:05,642 –> 00:28:11,382
far more intelligent than we are, because by nature,

328
00:28:11,582 –> 00:28:14,322
they just simply are themselves.

329
00:28:14,702 –> 00:28:28,282
They just are. They just are. are however my dog my boxer indigo if i didn’t even know you had a dog.

330
00:28:29,582 –> 00:28:32,662
In fact i have two i have a bull mastiff a

331
00:28:32,662 –> 00:28:36,322
boxer and a couple of cats but if

332
00:28:36,322 –> 00:28:39,002
if if i needed to be taken to the

333
00:28:39,002 –> 00:28:41,762
hospital because i just took indigo bless her

334
00:28:41,762 –> 00:28:45,682
heart to the vet she had a seizure the the

335
00:28:45,682 –> 00:28:49,342
difference but she is okay now but the the

336
00:28:49,342 –> 00:28:53,022
the difference here’s the difference I

337
00:28:53,022 –> 00:28:57,482
can take him to go to the vet but indigo can’t take me to the vet right or it

338
00:28:57,482 –> 00:29:02,702
can’t take me to the doctor yeah and so the the possibilities of being human

339
00:29:02,702 –> 00:29:10,942
or are obvious yeah in terms of our ability to do harm or to to heal to bring

340
00:29:10,942 –> 00:29:12,882
lighters, to bring darkness to others.

341
00:29:14,481 –> 00:29:21,201
But it is certainly a fact that when we behold a cat or we behold a horse or

342
00:29:21,201 –> 00:29:23,461
a cougar or a lion or a dog,

343
00:29:23,661 –> 00:29:31,401
we behold anything of creation that lives and breathes, that that creation,

344
00:29:31,481 –> 00:29:34,961
there’s such perfection in it.

345
00:29:35,041 –> 00:29:42,281
There needs to be no teaching on that, save aligning with the perfection of it.

346
00:29:42,281 –> 00:29:45,581
But where we as human beings

347
00:29:45,581 –> 00:29:48,541
hopefully we learn to be human beings

348
00:29:48,541 –> 00:29:51,981
we can become human doings out

349
00:29:51,981 –> 00:29:54,801
of the sense of the human being and that goes back to

350
00:29:54,801 –> 00:29:58,021
one of my first texts i told you about was the bhagavad-gita and

351
00:29:58,021 –> 00:30:00,921
our arjuna is told

352
00:30:00,921 –> 00:30:03,741
by krishna the inner teacher the inner

353
00:30:03,741 –> 00:30:08,281
teacher tells the the student he says establish

354
00:30:08,281 –> 00:30:12,621
yourself in being then act

355
00:30:12,621 –> 00:30:15,861
yeah establish yourself in

356
00:30:15,861 –> 00:30:22,341
being then act and i think this is the this is the goal to move from being and

357
00:30:22,341 –> 00:30:27,801
then wonderful service we can provide in terms of our doing can be human doings

358
00:30:27,801 –> 00:30:33,201
but be human doings from a place of centeredness from a place of presence.

359
00:30:33,421 –> 00:30:38,001
From a place where we have accrued some semblance of the balance of awareness

360
00:30:38,001 –> 00:30:44,841
and love and concern for our fellow human beings, for our environment,

361
00:30:44,941 –> 00:30:45,961
for our fellow creatures.

362
00:30:47,187 –> 00:30:52,067
I think the adjustment period is moving away from being so concerned with the

363
00:30:52,067 –> 00:30:59,047
act and getting back to or trying to get to the state of being and that being the priority.

364
00:30:59,587 –> 00:31:05,027
Absolutely. Absolutely. I know we’ve talked about, and I want to talk about more.

365
00:31:05,187 –> 00:31:09,327
Hopefully we can give our audience a sampling or a taste of what they can do

366
00:31:09,327 –> 00:31:13,647
to ease into some sort of meditative approach or technique.

367
00:31:13,647 –> 00:31:19,547
You know, we’ve talked about walking in the woods and the movements of Qigong

368
00:31:19,547 –> 00:31:24,547
and exercise and or shooting a bow and arrow.

369
00:31:24,787 –> 00:31:29,167
You know, I know for myself, walking in the woods or being outdoors,

370
00:31:29,467 –> 00:31:34,567
camping, training in my self-defense or even rigorous exercise.

371
00:31:34,667 –> 00:31:41,567
I know it puts me in this state of calm and certainly de-stresses me.

372
00:31:42,487 –> 00:31:45,627
I know that you and i have talked offline

373
00:31:45,627 –> 00:31:48,387
about how meditation has a

374
00:31:48,387 –> 00:31:51,227
place in martial arts but that that does not

375
00:31:51,227 –> 00:31:54,107
seem to be such a thing anymore and maybe it’s

376
00:31:54,107 –> 00:31:57,367
just because our martial arts here have become

377
00:31:57,367 –> 00:32:00,127
more westernized overall or maybe

378
00:32:00,127 –> 00:32:03,707
there’s more western based martial arts

379
00:32:03,707 –> 00:32:06,807
and meditation doesn’t seem to have a place there

380
00:32:06,807 –> 00:32:10,167
you know we all warm up and do our stretches before

381
00:32:10,167 –> 00:32:15,687
class but there’s not a chance to focus to do away with the stresses of the

382
00:32:15,687 –> 00:32:22,947
office before I got to class that evening maybe or or unwinding after the class

383
00:32:22,947 –> 00:32:27,787
how do we I mean how do we convince folks,

384
00:32:28,647 –> 00:32:34,207
to maybe even take it on for themselves even when the classes that they’re taking

385
00:32:34,207 –> 00:32:36,347
maybe aren’t offering it,

386
00:32:37,302 –> 00:32:43,202
You know, that is a great commentary on the state, shall we say,

387
00:32:43,222 –> 00:32:45,942
of martial arts in most places today.

388
00:32:46,102 –> 00:32:52,022
I mean, yeah, there’s nothing. And there’s a vapidness around development of

389
00:32:52,022 –> 00:32:54,882
the inner life before you go on the mat.

390
00:32:56,442 –> 00:33:00,382
And I can only say that it just depends upon the teacher that when I finally

391
00:33:00,382 –> 00:33:02,522
met a teacher who valued that.

392
00:33:02,522 –> 00:33:09,202
And I would assume, now I don’t know for certain and I have not talked to,

393
00:33:09,322 –> 00:33:15,142
I have mentioned this to senseis years ago when I was doing Aikido.

394
00:33:16,102 –> 00:33:19,122
But it was interesting. I would get this question like, yeah,

395
00:33:19,122 –> 00:33:21,722
it would be a good idea. But there was no training.

396
00:33:21,922 –> 00:33:24,162
Even the sense, quote unquote, senseis.

397
00:33:24,362 –> 00:33:27,442
In fact, my teacher said, you know, there are very, very few senseis.

398
00:33:28,002 –> 00:33:29,642
Anyway, Neil. It’s not just somebody

399
00:33:29,642 –> 00:33:34,222
that has a degree, a black belt or whatever. These are not sensei.

400
00:33:34,442 –> 00:33:38,202
Senseis are another animal that

401
00:33:38,202 –> 00:33:43,162
has to do with a deep, deep inner life and accrued energy and awareness.

402
00:33:43,702 –> 00:33:48,342
And there are very few of those. And I’m going to answer your question, Jim, this way.

403
00:33:48,442 –> 00:33:53,622
He said, and you can see it when there’s a lot of injury, because injury really

404
00:33:53,622 –> 00:33:59,022
comes out of not being in the flow, not being in a meditative state.

405
00:34:00,482 –> 00:34:04,502
And I think that when you said, I heard you say, how can we convince?

406
00:34:04,762 –> 00:34:08,902
Well, probably what’s going to happen is injury is going to begin,

407
00:34:09,022 –> 00:34:12,682
and injury will convince everyone, because once they’re injured,

408
00:34:12,782 –> 00:34:14,602
then they go, okay, what do I do here?

409
00:34:14,622 –> 00:34:17,302
I’m just sitting here. Well, well, okay, I’ll breathe.

410
00:34:18,142 –> 00:34:22,362
I’ll breathe and be aware of my breath, and I’ll heal, and I have to slow down.

411
00:34:22,682 –> 00:34:28,482
But if we came from that place, if in the Seiza position, in the kneeling position

412
00:34:28,482 –> 00:34:31,742
where I started in the dojo, in Aikido,

413
00:34:32,342 –> 00:34:37,182
in the Seiza, I would try to go to the Seiza position on the mat,

414
00:34:37,322 –> 00:34:42,002
and I was sometimes the only one there, and I would do my own meditation before

415
00:34:42,002 –> 00:34:44,422
I went into the Aikido movements.

416
00:34:44,422 –> 00:34:47,142
That’s what I was going to ask next.

417
00:34:47,342 –> 00:34:52,942
If it did have a place, which I think we both agree it does or it should,

418
00:34:53,302 –> 00:35:00,362
would I find myself meditating before I warm up at the beginning of class or

419
00:35:00,362 –> 00:35:05,882
would I meditate before I pack up and go home at the end of class?

420
00:35:05,882 –> 00:35:11,982
Us well well actually throughout because meditation is presence yeah so so you

421
00:35:11,982 –> 00:35:17,182
would first wake up in the morning establish yourself in being then act the

422
00:35:17,182 –> 00:35:18,362
first movement in the morning.

423
00:35:19,686 –> 00:35:25,046
Ideally, it should be a movement into presence, a movement into the awareness of breath.

424
00:35:26,146 –> 00:35:32,106
So let’s take a moment and experience this.

425
00:35:32,706 –> 00:35:38,626
So you wake up in the morning, and some people may take orange juice, coffee, tea, water.

426
00:35:39,206 –> 00:35:44,226
They’ll be reviving themselves with putting water on their face or whatever, maybe not.

427
00:35:44,226 –> 00:35:53,206
And rather than turning the TV on or looking at your computer or taking your

428
00:35:53,206 –> 00:35:57,306
iPhone or smartphone and seeing what’s going on,

429
00:35:57,466 –> 00:35:59,786
looking at text, schedules,

430
00:36:00,166 –> 00:36:03,166
Facebook, Instagram, etc.

431
00:36:04,666 –> 00:36:11,246
Sit, sit, sit and be present with your breath.

432
00:36:12,106 –> 00:36:17,326
It’s this gratitude of presence, of breathing in and breathing out.

433
00:36:17,906 –> 00:36:23,126
So we cognize the ultimate and the basic and the primal.

434
00:36:23,546 –> 00:36:32,506
Here I am as a human being, and I am alive, and energy is moving through me,

435
00:36:32,646 –> 00:36:38,286
and I connect with that breath in simple gratitude and presence.

436
00:36:39,824 –> 00:36:50,204
I sink into the folds of being the center of my body and my heart.

437
00:36:50,584 –> 00:36:57,944
And as I’m pulled to thoughts of the day or I’m pulled to a past event,

438
00:36:58,844 –> 00:37:03,624
as I cling or resist, I just return.

439
00:37:03,984 –> 00:37:09,104
Return to the tuning of becoming that centered instrument.

440
00:37:09,824 –> 00:37:16,604
That flute through which the breath of the divine intelligence flows.

441
00:37:17,604 –> 00:37:24,204
And I sit there, five minutes, ten minutes, twenty. I can set a time or just be.

442
00:37:25,064 –> 00:37:28,904
And then when I come out of that experience, I open my eyes,

443
00:37:29,024 –> 00:37:32,424
and I ground myself in the now,

444
00:37:33,084 –> 00:37:42,424
open my eyes to the world around me, And I say, be here now in silence or verbalized. It doesn’t matter.

445
00:37:43,664 –> 00:37:49,104
And then I move into my day from a place of meditative centeredness,

446
00:37:49,124 –> 00:37:56,004
from a place of presence, totally getting pulled out of that and in throughout the day.

447
00:37:56,144 –> 00:37:58,864
But now I know where home is, don’t I?

448
00:37:58,864 –> 00:38:05,224
I know where home is, whereas I’m pulled out into stress, or I’m pulled out

449
00:38:05,224 –> 00:38:10,384
into worry, or I’m pulled into anger, pulled into annoyance or impatience.

450
00:38:10,384 –> 00:38:12,864
I know where presence is.

451
00:38:13,004 –> 00:38:16,844
I know where home is. I’m no longer a lost soul.

452
00:38:17,404 –> 00:38:24,984
And so if we were to begin there and we go to work or we go to the dojo then

453
00:38:24,984 –> 00:38:29,984
what happens is we’re already we know where home is and so immediately,

454
00:38:30,664 –> 00:38:37,564
after we put our gi on and we go to the mat and we kneel on the mat or we sit

455
00:38:37,564 –> 00:38:43,284
in the yogic position on the mat however we sit in the natural Native American position.

456
00:38:45,045 –> 00:38:48,425
Folded, crossed legs position if we want. It doesn’t matter.

457
00:38:48,485 –> 00:38:54,365
We immediately go to that presence. It becomes so natural. It is like the breath itself.

458
00:38:55,385 –> 00:39:01,665
And then we go into action. We’re in our katas or we’re engaged with another

459
00:39:01,665 –> 00:39:04,745
in a particular martial art movement,

460
00:39:04,845 –> 00:39:08,525
depending, it doesn’t matter which martial art, whether it be a soft martial

461
00:39:08,525 –> 00:39:13,985
art or even a hard one like taekwondo or jiu-jitsu or whatever, Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

462
00:39:13,985 –> 00:39:17,965
That we come to

463
00:39:17,965 –> 00:39:20,965
that moment of flow and

464
00:39:20,965 –> 00:39:29,225
becoming in total joy in enthusiasm for being alive just as we used to when

465
00:39:29,225 –> 00:39:34,165
we were children riding our bicycle or wrestling or playing with this or that

466
00:39:34,165 –> 00:39:38,945
or just walking in the forest or walking Walking on the street doesn’t matter.

467
00:39:39,485 –> 00:39:48,485
We realize the magnificence and mystery of being a human and becoming, unfolding into,

468
00:39:49,565 –> 00:39:54,045
deeper levels of awareness and deeper levels of concern, compassion,

469
00:39:54,105 –> 00:39:55,685
and love and forgiveness.

470
00:39:56,005 –> 00:40:02,165
These are senses of the soul we begin to develop as we practice the presence,

471
00:40:02,405 –> 00:40:12,565
as we move from meditative practice to meditative state to identifying with presence itself.

472
00:40:13,951 –> 00:40:17,691
Yeah, I think the important piece

473
00:40:17,691 –> 00:40:21,831
to the whole act of meditation is

474
00:40:21,831 –> 00:40:25,191
to try to familiarize yourself with what

475
00:40:25,191 –> 00:40:28,951
it’s like or what it might be like to

476
00:40:28,951 –> 00:40:31,851
just be and to have all

477
00:40:31,851 –> 00:40:34,651
of those thoughts out of your head and to

478
00:40:34,651 –> 00:40:37,971
focus on the breathing or whatever

479
00:40:37,971 –> 00:40:41,431
technique it is you’re trying to do so that

480
00:40:41,431 –> 00:40:44,331
you have or you learn what

481
00:40:44,331 –> 00:40:47,611
it’s like to have some sense or some

482
00:40:47,611 –> 00:40:51,211
knowledge of what that’s like and i

483
00:40:51,211 –> 00:40:54,611
want to say something yes and i want to say something in that regard because

484
00:40:54,611 –> 00:40:59,331
you you’ve talked about you know i don’t know if you said these exact words

485
00:40:59,331 –> 00:41:04,491
but getting thoughts out of our head i think a lot of people stop meditation

486
00:41:04,491 –> 00:41:08,031
because they can’t get thoughts out of their head.

487
00:41:08,151 –> 00:41:13,091
And the key is trying to get thoughts out of your head would be like being in

488
00:41:13,091 –> 00:41:17,511
the middle of the summer in New Orleans or Atlanta near a body of water and

489
00:41:17,511 –> 00:41:18,891
not being bitten by a mosquito.

490
00:41:20,111 –> 00:41:24,251
Right. Yeah. It’s the challenges I have, right? I get that rhythm.

491
00:41:25,131 –> 00:41:31,131
I try to get to that rhythm. I find my breath, but inevitably thoughts come rushing in again.

492
00:41:31,191 –> 00:41:35,931
So I have to be consciously aware of those thoughts in order to push them back out again.

493
00:41:36,011 –> 00:41:39,731
And it’s Well, I wouldn’t even say push them out.

494
00:41:39,871 –> 00:41:42,271
A teacher once shared this with me.

495
00:41:42,831 –> 00:41:47,751
Rather than pushing, because if I told you right now, Jim, do not think of a

496
00:41:47,751 –> 00:41:49,451
white bear for 10 seconds.

497
00:41:50,691 –> 00:41:57,311
Already happened. That’s right. So I would not recommend that,

498
00:41:57,331 –> 00:42:00,911
of trying to push anything out of anywhere.

499
00:42:00,911 –> 00:42:10,571
Rather than push, follow the pull of your breath and bring your awareness to your breath.

500
00:42:10,711 –> 00:42:16,211
And by experience, you will know this, that the thoughts end up, we build a mosquito net.

501
00:42:17,544 –> 00:42:22,104
And the little mosquitoes are hitting up against the mosquito net,

502
00:42:22,264 –> 00:42:26,364
but they’re not biting us anymore. We can even barely hear them.

503
00:42:26,924 –> 00:42:31,464
They’re there. The thoughts are there. Perhaps they always will be.

504
00:42:31,524 –> 00:42:35,604
They’ll run like a stream and they’ll hang. Clinging resist.

505
00:42:35,864 –> 00:42:39,384
We cling resist. We cling resist. When you say push out thoughts,

506
00:42:39,744 –> 00:42:45,564
that literally will not help because what you do is you resist what’s much stronger than you are.

507
00:42:45,564 –> 00:42:49,944
That would be like going into an ocean in a wave as a surfer and going,

508
00:42:50,044 –> 00:42:52,264
I’m going to push you. I’m going to go the opposite direction.

509
00:42:52,364 –> 00:42:55,724
I’m going to surf the other way, away from the shore.

510
00:42:55,884 –> 00:42:58,144
Right. That’s the way I feel.

511
00:42:59,904 –> 00:43:03,604
And most people do it. That’s why so many people stop meditation.

512
00:43:03,764 –> 00:43:07,344
Yeah. Because they don’t think they’re, because they think they’re supposed

513
00:43:07,344 –> 00:43:09,224
to control the thought. Yeah.

514
00:43:11,084 –> 00:43:14,064
And it’s not really the case. it’s more about

515
00:43:14,064 –> 00:43:17,284
getting on the wave utilize the thought

516
00:43:17,284 –> 00:43:21,684
turn the liability into an asset do

517
00:43:21,684 –> 00:43:26,864
not resist do not cling yeah you know what but that’s what we do and that’s

518
00:43:26,864 –> 00:43:32,044
what we’re so unhappy because we cling to what makes us happy and we resist

519
00:43:32,044 –> 00:43:38,344
what makes us unhappy right yep and then so and in fine large and in so doing

520
00:43:38,344 –> 00:43:40,864
we’re always in a state of unrest.

521
00:43:42,759 –> 00:43:46,799
So what I would recommend here, again, you only know by experience,

522
00:43:46,879 –> 00:43:52,839
but I know you’ve experienced this, Jim, when maybe in moment by moment and you get pulled out.

523
00:43:52,899 –> 00:43:57,479
But in a certain moment when everything’s OK and you feel as though you’re in

524
00:43:57,479 –> 00:44:03,619
the pause between at least the thoughts and there’s a little vacant gap there between thoughts.

525
00:44:03,899 –> 00:44:05,939
Have you ever experienced that? Yeah.

526
00:44:06,459 –> 00:44:10,659
Well, don’t worry. The wave’s coming. Right. It’s almost like that wave coming

527
00:44:10,659 –> 00:44:14,019
up before it comes and splashes on us and sinks us.

528
00:44:14,439 –> 00:44:20,559
And so what the when we anchor in the breath with our awareness,

529
00:44:20,599 –> 00:44:25,979
we anchor in the mantra when we need it more as an anchoring tool than a repetitive

530
00:44:25,979 –> 00:44:28,879
word. although we can use that technique as well.

531
00:44:29,159 –> 00:44:32,699
When we begin that practice,

532
00:44:32,939 –> 00:44:40,619
we turn our attention away from the thoughts to the awareness of our breath,

533
00:44:40,719 –> 00:44:47,719
and we begin to align with what meditators and sages have called the witness

534
00:44:47,719 –> 00:44:50,499
or the observer and the experiencer.

535
00:44:50,779 –> 00:44:58,079
Become the witness and experiencer and the feeler and less identify with the

536
00:44:58,079 –> 00:45:02,499
thoughts themselves, the feelings themselves, or the objects themselves.

537
00:45:02,979 –> 00:45:10,239
Once we begin to identify with the subject beyond our ego, which is consciousness,

538
00:45:10,559 –> 00:45:17,419
some have referred to consciousness as intelligence, others as the soul,

539
00:45:17,499 –> 00:45:20,239
certainly in spiritual traditions.

540
00:45:20,239 –> 00:45:30,359
But the soul is actually, I like the modern term of the soul as consciousness itself.

541
00:45:31,699 –> 00:45:35,519
And that’s the difference between, shall we say, myself and Indigo,

542
00:45:35,519 –> 00:45:37,099
my boxer, or you and your dog.

543
00:45:37,259 –> 00:45:40,199
That’s the difference. We’re conscious that we’re conscious.

544
00:45:42,030 –> 00:45:49,390
That development, that late development in the brain is a great opportunity and a great curse.

545
00:45:50,010 –> 00:45:57,330
Yes. Because if we become self-conscious and we become nervous and worried about

546
00:45:57,330 –> 00:46:02,770
how we’re going to perform because we’re human doings or we’re thinkers and

547
00:46:02,770 –> 00:46:06,710
we’re always about the thoughts and what we’re going to think and solve,

548
00:46:06,710 –> 00:46:09,590
then we are identified with the

549
00:46:09,590 –> 00:46:12,950
ego that is extremely unhappy moves

550
00:46:12,950 –> 00:46:17,430
from pleasure and pain as fast as

551
00:46:17,430 –> 00:46:21,230
a computer yeah and so

552
00:46:21,230 –> 00:46:30,390
in in order to move beyond that trends become transcendent shall we say to being

553
00:46:30,390 –> 00:46:37,430
governed by the ego it is important to identify more and more and evermore with consciousness itself.

554
00:46:38,490 –> 00:46:48,350
As St. Augustine once said, he said the ego is a lousy master, but a great servant.

555
00:46:50,529 –> 00:46:55,429
I think that’s a great spot to end today’s discussion on meditation as well.

556
00:46:55,849 –> 00:47:01,589
So before we go, I just want to, I know your time is running out here today,

557
00:47:01,709 –> 00:47:06,129
but I want to let you know how much I appreciate you being here and thank you

558
00:47:06,129 –> 00:47:08,109
for taking time out to do this with me.

559
00:47:08,509 –> 00:47:13,389
I want to also thank you for all you’re doing and all you’ve done for me personally.

560
00:47:13,909 –> 00:47:19,569
And I was wondering if we couldn’t close out today’s podcast by you maybe doing

561
00:47:19,569 –> 00:47:24,309
some breathing techniques or something for our audience? Would you mind doing that for us?

562
00:47:24,969 –> 00:47:30,349
Sure. One technique was developed by Doc Childra called the HeartMath technique,

563
00:47:30,609 –> 00:47:32,949
which I’ve used for a number of years.

564
00:47:33,829 –> 00:47:37,649
Of course, it’s a biofeedback technique that you can actually get instruments

565
00:47:37,649 –> 00:47:43,389
and go online and certainly please go online, heartmath.com.

566
00:47:43,389 –> 00:47:50,949
You will discover some wonderful ways to utilize this technique. Okay.

567
00:47:51,129 –> 00:47:55,969
And just to be clear, sorry, just to be clear, I know I made this mistake early on.

568
00:47:56,029 –> 00:48:01,109
Are we saying heart math, M-A-T-H, or are we saying heart map, M-A-P?

569
00:48:01,909 –> 00:48:06,489
We are saying heart math, M-A-T-H. Gotcha.

570
00:48:06,649 –> 00:48:12,549
Okay. Yep. And, and, and it’ll become clear when I, when I give to you the,

571
00:48:13,129 –> 00:48:15,949
the, we’re not going to move through the meditation. There’s not enough time,

572
00:48:15,989 –> 00:48:16,929
but I’ll give you the parts.

573
00:48:17,249 –> 00:48:23,149
The, the, the, the first part is where you develop a scene, a scene of positivity,

574
00:48:23,409 –> 00:48:27,349
a scene of joy that you have had in your life.

575
00:48:27,889 –> 00:48:33,009
And you recall, you remember that scene and utilize, if you can,

576
00:48:33,069 –> 00:48:37,149
even all the five senses of sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell, et cetera.

577
00:48:37,409 –> 00:48:43,349
And you, you first get in touch with that scene that just gives you a sense

578
00:48:43,349 –> 00:48:44,409
of pleasure and presence.

579
00:48:45,839 –> 00:48:52,739
The first step. Then you begin to breathe into the physical heart.

580
00:48:53,559 –> 00:48:59,199
So you breathe into the heart and then you exhale even deeper into the heart.

581
00:48:59,319 –> 00:49:04,259
So you breathe into the heart and then even deeper into the heart as you exhale.

582
00:49:04,499 –> 00:49:07,579
And this is all visualization, visualization technique.

583
00:49:07,999 –> 00:49:12,719
But it’s a wonderful one to intervene on the thoughts of worry or the thoughts

584
00:49:12,719 –> 00:49:16,039
of resentment, future or past thought.

585
00:49:16,559 –> 00:49:20,319
Now, this is a past scene, but you’re representing the scene of joy.

586
00:49:20,659 –> 00:49:26,099
So you are now, what you’re doing is you’re not producing as much cortisol or

587
00:49:26,099 –> 00:49:31,739
the stressful amount of cortisol, and you’re producing more dopamine and endorphin and even adrenaline.

588
00:49:32,359 –> 00:49:36,079
So you begin to breathe that into your heart and do that 10 times.

589
00:49:36,719 –> 00:49:40,679
And then after you do that 10 times of breathing in that scene into your heart,

590
00:49:40,799 –> 00:49:44,539
you can then breathe just the essence.

591
00:49:44,619 –> 00:49:48,759
You you extract the essence like orange juice from an orange,

592
00:49:48,959 –> 00:49:52,439
and you begin to breathe in that essence of positivity and joy.

593
00:49:52,639 –> 00:49:54,519
And do that 10 times or so.

594
00:49:55,299 –> 00:49:59,159
And you can, this is a great meditation in the moment of stress.

595
00:49:59,879 –> 00:50:02,959
You can use it anywhere. Use it in the parking lot, in your car,

596
00:50:03,079 –> 00:50:08,179
before you’re going into an important meeting, or after one that has really disturbed you.

597
00:50:08,819 –> 00:50:12,479
Go into that heart math meditation, and you

598
00:50:12,479 –> 00:50:18,299
can produce almost immediate sense of okayness

599
00:50:18,299 –> 00:50:23,199
with with with not being okay i’m not it’s not like you’re going to achieve

600
00:50:23,199 –> 00:50:28,719
enlightenment but one gets a sense if you know okay i you’ve gotten a little

601
00:50:28,719 –> 00:50:34,319
bit of cognitive distance on your life and yet emotional presence

602
00:50:34,639 –> 00:50:37,999
to the essence of yourself in terms

603
00:50:37,999 –> 00:50:41,199
of being joy being positivity being love that’s

604
00:50:41,199 –> 00:50:43,979
a that’s a great method the second method

605
00:50:43,979 –> 00:50:48,319
already i already moved you through and and we spent about five or ten minutes

606
00:50:48,319 –> 00:50:54,299
on it and that was connecting your awareness to the breath itself and following

607
00:50:54,299 –> 00:51:02,699
the breath in each of its and inhales and exhales with your awareness and beginning to align more

608
00:51:02,839 –> 00:51:05,799
and more with the natural state of your breath,

609
00:51:05,959 –> 00:51:08,999
where your awareness is literally identifying with breath.

610
00:51:09,119 –> 00:51:12,479
That Tibetan method, I already gave that to you in our talk.

611
00:51:14,340 –> 00:51:22,840
The third technique would be to, again, it’s all about bringing the awareness to the breath itself.

612
00:51:23,020 –> 00:51:26,380
This is another heart technique, an ancient monastic technique,

613
00:51:26,440 –> 00:51:32,880
where you pick a word, a sacred word from any scripture of your choice.

614
00:51:33,760 –> 00:51:37,400
And you use that word simply to anchor you. So you breathe into the heart.

615
00:51:37,540 –> 00:51:41,800
And whenever you get pulled away into thoughts or into feelings,

616
00:51:42,040 –> 00:51:46,340
you bring the mantra, bring in that sacred word.

617
00:51:46,480 –> 00:51:51,940
You don’t repeat it each time. You breathe in that word simply to anchor you

618
00:51:51,940 –> 00:52:00,820
more and more into presence, into your heart and allow. Allow whatever comes up to come up.

619
00:52:01,220 –> 00:52:08,280
And there are a number of thoughts that can come in and intrude, even positive ones.

620
00:52:08,960 –> 00:52:14,840
Rather than grab that like a fish on a hook, you can always gain that later

621
00:52:14,840 –> 00:52:16,460
when you move out of your meditation.

622
00:52:17,100 –> 00:52:21,220
But at the moment, continue that centering, that centering, that centering.

623
00:52:21,220 –> 00:52:25,100
Rather than bite a fish even as

624
00:52:25,100 –> 00:52:28,880
a fisherman or or catch a fish bite

625
00:52:28,880 –> 00:52:31,640
a fish as a fish or catch a fish as a fisherman or be

626
00:52:31,640 –> 00:52:35,240
being eaten as a fish rather than all of that simply

627
00:52:35,240 –> 00:52:38,420
just be because it’s not about clinging

628
00:52:38,420 –> 00:52:44,980
nor is about resisting nor is it really about grasping or once we gain something

629
00:52:44,980 –> 00:52:49,980
a treasure that’s what i i came into meditation in order to get this treasure

630
00:52:49,980 –> 00:52:56,380
it’s not really what it’s about it’s about developing a taste for a more lively

631
00:52:56,380 –> 00:52:57,700
and more positive existence,

632
00:52:58,360 –> 00:53:02,600
it’s not really about uh finding this

633
00:53:02,600 –> 00:53:05,960
or that treasure and then stopping okay

634
00:53:05,960 –> 00:53:10,940
i’ve got that insight now i can go into the world although those are good experiences

635
00:53:10,940 –> 00:53:17,580
and you know certainly better than a sharp stick in the eye uh we can we can

636
00:53:17,580 –> 00:53:23,560
gain much more enriched experience if we learn to become meditative beings, okay?

637
00:53:25,020 –> 00:53:28,640
And that, I think, we can end there. There are many other techniques,

638
00:53:28,800 –> 00:53:33,040
but those would be a few that I think can be highly useful in day-to-day life.

639
00:53:33,820 –> 00:53:39,840
It’s a great start. Neil, we appreciate it. Thanks so much for joining us. You’re welcome, Jim.

640
00:53:40,880 –> 00:54:02,410
Music.