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Music.

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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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I’m your host, Jim O’Brien. Hi, and welcome back to episode 21.

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Today, we’ve got on the phone Ryan Hoover with Fit to Fight. Ryan, how are you?

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I’m great. How are you? Good, good, good.

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So I’m excited to do this. I’ve had your name on the list for a while,

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so I’m glad you took the time and were able to take the time to do that.

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So thank you very much for doing this with us. Yeah, I appreciate the invite. Yeah.

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Sorry, the emails kept getting jammed up in spam.

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Yeah, I don’t know. Finally got it, but I don’t know what the deal there was.

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Yeah, I have no idea. I was just like throwing emails at you from two or three

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different email accounts. I was like, surely one of these have got to get through.

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Yeah, we finally got it. Yeah. So I’d like to start these things out by having

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you talk about yourself, background, history, experience you have,

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and how you got to where you are now. Okay.

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It’s, it’s, there’s nothing really too exciting, you know, as a kid,

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kind of like I probably a lot of kids, I, you know, was interested in martial

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arts, always something I wanted to do, never really had much of an opportunity to do it.

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So I was kind of late in life to this, unlike a lot of people in the industry

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where they started, you know, really young.

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I didn’t really start until I I got into college and did a little bit of traditional

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martial arts, some karate, kenpo, Arnis, got a couple of different black belts.

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Never really like, I don’t know, at some point it was like, none of this looks

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like any of the fights that I was ever in.

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You know, as a kid, I was, you know, well, I still am.

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I was always on the small side. and so

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I kind of learned pretty early on that I needed to learn to to run really fast

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and talk really well and and and fight and I used all of those at some point

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but none of the the training that I was doing really looked like any of the

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fights that I experienced or seen myself so I.

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I went looking for something that I thought looked more like what I felt like fights looked like.

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And I found Krav Maga.

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I actually saw it in a magazine article I’d never heard of it before.

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And at this time, I had started doing some jiu-jitsu and some boxing as well.

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And I’d never seen anything Krav Maga other than this article.

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But I decided just based on the article alone that it was something I wanted to give it a try.

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So I called out to LA and talked to some folks out there,

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found out that there was an instructor course coming up in Jacksonville,

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Florida, and signed up, went down for, at that time, the instructor classes were eight or nine days.

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After day one, I was wondering what the hell I’d gotten myself into.

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I had the same thought. Yeah.

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And then about, you know, I don’t know, a couple of days in,

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I mean, it was very tough.

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It was brutal, physically incredibly challenging, but it was much more like

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what I was looking for in terms of, you know,

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just a self-defense system for adults that, you know, wasn’t Taekwondo.

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And so I was hooked. There was very little in the southeast with regards to Krav Maga at that time.

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So I had to travel a ton, you know. So I went pretty much anywhere,

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anytime anybody was doing a seminar.

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And at the same time, I was still doing, I was still training in jiu-jitsu.

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And I went to Thailand, did a little bit in Thailand.

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But I, you know, I pretty much immersed myself in Krav Maga for a few years.

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Sure. And so in Krav, your second degree in Krav, is that right?

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I’m trying to remember my history.

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Yeah, I got my second degree in 2001.

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Eight, I believe. That’s no small feat. And you actually authored or co-authored

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the worldwide black belt book for Krav, didn’t you?

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The black belt book, the beginner’s book and the women’s book. Okay. Yeah.

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I knew you had at least the one and I was trying to remember all the ones that

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I’d seen you on the cover of. Yeah.

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That’s awesome. Yeah. Those three, you know, and I mean, it was a good experience for me in terms of,

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that was the first time that I’d done anything where I really,

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you know got some some kind of

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publishing cred yeah writing is something

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that i’ve always enjoyed so that was a good project for me to be involved with

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it opened up some doors from for some other things and there are parts of those

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books you know that that i still think hold a lot of merit and value parts of

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them that you know i i don’t care for but in terms of representing you,

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the Krav Maga worldwide approach. I mean, that’s what I was asked to do,

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you know, so I think they fit that bill pretty well. Yeah.

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And on that note, just kind of taking a tangent here, I know,

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and when you said it, I remembered you had, and I’d look through it at a point

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in time, but what would you say,

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and again, completely tangential, random question, what would you say is the

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biggest difference in the book that you wrote for women specifically in Krav

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versus the regular old Krav program for everyone.

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Was it techniques? Was it words you wrote to resonate better?

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Maybe what aspects made it a book for women?

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Yeah, I think the technical responses really aren’t any different.

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I think that, you know, there maybe are some attacks, threats that are more

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common when women are dealing with violence than maybe when men are dealing with violence.

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And so understanding, you know, that not necessarily that, because fighting is fighting,

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you know, like I tell this story often, I got a call several years ago from

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a Connecticut state trooper, and she wanted a course for small officers.

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And, you know, I told her, I said, okay, well, we can do that.

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But just so you know, it’d be the same course as we would do for giant officers.

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And needless to say, I never heard from her again.

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And I’m sure she found somebody that would teach her a course for small officers.

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But the reality is fighting is fighting.

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And if you’re small, you just have to be better and it’s still going to suck.

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And so I think that was the right.

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When you write a book that’s focused on a particular part of the demographic,

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the market, whatever, it’s important to understand, or it was important for

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me to make sure that we relayed.

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It’s not a different technique. It’s not a different because you’re maybe smaller

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or you’re maybe not as big or whatever.

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It’s not going to change the technical response. It’s just going to mean that

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you maybe are going to be faced with different sorts of attacks and different

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sorts of threats and that you’re going to have to be technically that much better. Yeah.

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And so going off course here a little bit, and that’s just the way these things go,

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what do you think, and maybe this was further down the list,

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I don’t know, but what do you think relative to women’s self-defense or just

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self-defense as a whole, I know I have my list of things,

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but what do you think is really missing from self-defense training today in the schools?

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What do you think could be done better in general?

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I think there’s, and I mean, a lot of this comes down to marketing.

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You know, I think there’s an overreliance on telling people all you have to do is, you know,

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giving people this kind of formulaic, algorithmic approach to dealing with violence.

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And I get why that happens.

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You know, from a marketing standpoint, it’s just, it’s an easier sell.

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Right. Because people want you to tell them, well, if this, then that.

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So as an instructor, it’s an easier thing to do. It’s easier for me to get in

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front of a group of people and say, okay, well, if we’re going to deal with

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a two-hand choke from the front,

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I do A, he does B. I do C, he does D. And that’s easy.

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And then from the student standpoint, you walk away feeling like,

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okay, I’ve got that. I know how to deal with that.

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It’s not easy to get up in front of a group of people and say, well, it depends.

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There are an unlimited amount of variables.

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And while we want to give some sort of a framework for having to deal with a

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choke from the front, for example,

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we need to allow the students kind of the ability to paint their own picture.

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You know, the thing I say all the time is we’re going to give you a skeleton

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and then you have to build the muscle around that because at the end of the

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day, we need to be problem solvers.

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If I give you a hundred technical responses to a hundred different attacks,

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for sure you’re going to be faced with 101st and then, you know, now what? Yeah.

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Now you’re going to tell me how the program stinks. Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, at the end of the day, techniques fail.

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Yeah. You know, like there are, there are some things that, that work in certain

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circumstances with certain body types and certain people and some things that

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don’t, you know, it, it, it makes no sense for me to try to force a five,

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215 pound woman to fight the same way as a six foot 195 pound man.

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Like, how does that make any sense whatsoever? Right.

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Just physically doesn’t add up. So I’m glad you brought that up because as we

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talked about, that was one of the things that I want us to touch upon today because I think,

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at least from my vantage point over the last few years, it seems like you’ve

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gotten an infamous reputation for saying those two words.

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And it’s the two words that are as

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simple as they are really piss people off because

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you’re right they always want the answer there is an

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answer for everything and those two words are

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it depends and i think that’s very

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true like you change one tiny little aspect of any scenario and it completely

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changes how your response goes what the outcome is all of that stuff yeah i

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i think to people that maybe either don’t know or maybe they do know,

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but they don’t want to kind of let go of the veil of.

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Expert superiority, you know, independence sounds like a cop-out.

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But to me, it’s quite the opposite. You know, the cop-out is me standing up

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in front of you and telling you exactly what you want to hear.

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Open mouth, here comes the spoon.

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Yeah, it’s super easy to do. But if we take the two-inch show from the front example.

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I mean, where are we? You know, are we on an incline or are we on a decline?

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You know, are we on wet grass? Are we on gravel? Am I pinned up against a car?

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Am I pinned up against a wall? Am I pinned up against the floor?

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Is the person attacking me 6’2″, 205? You know, there are just so many things

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that come into play that am I with my eight-year-old, you know,

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those kinds of things that if I just give a purely technical response,

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then it, to me, it indicates that I don’t really understand the dynamics of

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violence because just any one little variable can change the entire way that I should respond.

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And that’s hard because now I have to think.

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I have to be able to think for myself as opposed to having a manual or a book

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or an instructor or a YouTube video tell me exactly what to do.

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And that’s just not how violence works, unfortunately. You know, it’s just not the what.

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Happens. Yeah, the prescribed technique, steps A through G don’t necessarily

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work on the streets when the scenarios are so much more dynamic and to your

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point with so many variables that there’s no way that A through G will get you

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through them all every time.

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Right. As soon as one of those things is out of order, if you’ve never learned

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to deal with that, at the end of the day, I think you have to teach people how to fight.

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You know, in the self-defense world, especially in the reality-based self-defense

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world, there’s this want to say, well, self-defense and fighting aren’t the same.

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And, you know, maybe on a very cursory kind of superficial level,

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that’s true in that self-defense is, okay, I’m being choked. How do I deal with that?

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Okay, so I deal with that initial danger, but now I have to just be able to fight. Right.

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You know, once I get the hands off of my throat, I need to be able to fight this other person.

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You don’t win fights with defense.

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You know, I, I’ve seen hundreds of fights in my life.

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I’ve never seen anybody self-defense themselves, you know, like that,

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that, that’s not a thing.

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Like, okay. So maybe I deal with that headlock or I deal with that body lock

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or, or I deal with that takedown or whatever.

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But immediately after that, my ability to fight is what’s going to make the

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difference between me surviving or not surviving.

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And, you know, nobody wants to hear that.

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I mean, it’s like, well, but I don’t want to learn how to fight.

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I just want to learn how to defend myself and get away. Okay.

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Defense is hard. Like it’s really hard to defend yourself against somebody that’s

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doing violence to you, especially if they go first, which if you’re the good

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guy, they almost always are going first. Yeah. So yeah.

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I need to be able to hit, hurt that other person more than they hurt me and

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do more damage than they do to me.

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And that’s just coming down to, to being able to fight. Yeah.

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Yeah. He who gets the first drop gets the drop usually comes out on top.

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Yeah. I mean, it just is, you know, I mean, I wish that weren’t the case,

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but I’d also be lying to my students if I told them otherwise,

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you know, giving them a, a false sense of what’s, what’s real,

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which is the problem with, But again,

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the having this algorithmic approach to dealing with violence,

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if I tell people that that’s the way it’s going to happen and that’s not really

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the way it’s going to happen, they walk out of here feeling good about themselves.

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And then let’s hope that they never have to prove otherwise.

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And I mean, the truth is, they’re most of the time they’re not going to.

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Right. You know, like you can get away as an instructor with with teaching some

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bullshit. Even if it’s unintentional, because the odds of your students ever

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having to use it are next to none.

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I mean, if we’re just, you know, if we’re just playing the numbers,

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I mean, they’re much more likely to die from heart disease or diabetes or something.

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On the topic of kind of taglines and things that you’ve developed for yourself

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in your school over the years, you know, I was up for something.

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And I was taken with you once in Charlotte.

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And I actually came back with a sweatshirt because the tagline resonated with me so much.

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And, you know, it’s used a lot, but still has some meaning. Growth is in discomfort.

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I think that kind of can be tied into what we were just talking about and getting

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used to the idea that you’ve got to learn how to fight and that there aren’t

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canned responses for every situation. and, you know, you need to get in there and figure it out.

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Yeah. Growth is in discomfort. You know, that’s been one of our kind of,

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I don’t know, mantras, I guess, for a long time, understanding that,

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If I’m going to grow, if I’m going to get better, if I’m going to improve myself

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in any way, you know, whether it’s physically or emotionally or mentally or

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whatever, I’m going to have to be willing to get uncomfortable.

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You know, if I’m going to have to kind of embrace failure,

00:16:47.330 –> 00:16:54.250
I’m going to have to embrace days where I get tapped more than I tap somebody

00:16:54.250 –> 00:16:58.390
else or where I get punched more than I punch somebody else or where,

00:16:58.590 –> 00:17:01.550
you know, I do pushups to failure.

00:17:02.750 –> 00:17:10.710
And the guy beside me is doing twice as many, you know, because there’s no way for me to improve.

00:17:10.850 –> 00:17:16.190
If I want to get better at playing basketball, then I’m going to have to challenge myself. I can’t.

00:17:16.510 –> 00:17:22.350
I mean, I can go out and play 10 year olds, you know, and win every time.

00:17:22.950 –> 00:17:27.470
But I’m not really improving. I’m not really getting any better because I’m not uncomfortable.

00:17:27.630 –> 00:17:30.490
You know, they’re not going to push me. They’re not going to challenge me.

00:17:30.490 –> 00:17:33.810
They’re not going to make me get better.

00:17:34.330 –> 00:17:39.910
And again, you know, if we go back to the previous conversation,

00:17:40.230 –> 00:17:44.430
our way is not the easy way to go about things. People don’t like being uncomfortable.

00:17:44.770 –> 00:17:50.870
You know, it’s counterintuitive. You know, we do everything we can to seek out

00:17:50.870 –> 00:17:54.490
comfort. That’s why we have air conditioners and heaters and,

00:17:54.490 –> 00:17:57.430
you know, things that make us feel better.

00:17:57.670 –> 00:18:03.490
So to go out and not only seek it, but pay for somebody to make us uncomfortable,

00:18:03.890 –> 00:18:08.670
you know, that there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance that has to happen there. Yeah.

00:18:09.370 –> 00:18:12.070
And so, again, you know, I remember somebody told me one time,

00:18:12.210 –> 00:18:17.430
look, McDonald’s is one of the big, biggest corporations on the planet,

00:18:17.430 –> 00:18:21.810
not because they sell what people need, but they sell what people want.

00:18:21.950 –> 00:18:25.950
And so in a lot of cases, you know, we’re selling things that people need,

00:18:26.110 –> 00:18:27.510
but not necessarily what they want.

00:18:27.710 –> 00:18:32.710
And that’s a hard thing to do on the surface.

00:18:32.810 –> 00:18:38.970
You know, you have to get people to really buy in to why discomfort,

00:18:38.970 –> 00:18:44.430
why forcing yourself to be uncomfortable is where the growth is.

00:18:44.430 –> 00:18:50.610
And so we’ve spent a lot of time and a lot of years trying to kind of engender

00:18:50.610 –> 00:18:52.710
that culture where people get it.

00:18:52.890 –> 00:18:59.190
You know, if if if I want to improve my bench press, well, I’m going to have

00:18:59.190 –> 00:19:03.230
to increase the weight. I’m going to have to increase the reps.

00:19:03.270 –> 00:19:06.110
I’m going to have to increase the time under tension.

00:19:06.470 –> 00:19:08.650
There’s no other way to do it, you know.

00:19:09.830 –> 00:19:15.410
And that’s the same, whether it’s a physical challenge or an emotional challenge

00:19:15.410 –> 00:19:18.370
or a mental challenge. If you’re doing the same things you’ve always done,

00:19:18.630 –> 00:19:22.670
then you’re going to stay right where you are. And there’s just no growth there.

00:19:22.830 –> 00:19:25.230
So you’re going to have to get uncomfortable.

00:19:26.174 –> 00:19:29.954
So it sounds like, you know, and this is a great segue to the next thing,

00:19:30.114 –> 00:19:32.614
but it sounds like, you know, that is one of the challenges,

00:19:32.834 –> 00:19:36.954
especially for new people or women that definitely, or whoever it is,

00:19:37.074 –> 00:19:40.974
children, women, or a guy that’s never thrown a punch in his life.

00:19:41.094 –> 00:19:44.834
It sounds like that’s definitely one of the challenges of not only just getting

00:19:44.834 –> 00:19:49.994
them to the door, but through this door and staying and also paying for it.

00:19:50.374 –> 00:19:55.734
But what are some of the other challenges for the average Joe Schmo coming to learn self-defense?

00:19:56.374 –> 00:20:00.914
Yeah. When I teach an instructor course, one of the things that I talk about

00:20:00.914 –> 00:20:04.614
is somebody coming to your center,

00:20:04.614 –> 00:20:10.294
they’ve probably gone to your website half a dozen times before they sent an

00:20:10.294 –> 00:20:11.374
email or made a phone call.

00:20:12.174 –> 00:20:15.234
And then if they sent that email or they made that phone call,

00:20:15.614 –> 00:20:20.534
you know, they probably sat on it for a couple of weeks before they actually

00:20:20.534 –> 00:20:21.934
decided to come into your center.

00:20:21.934 –> 00:20:25.434
And maybe they did a tour and maybe they watched a class and,

00:20:25.454 –> 00:20:29.174
you know, and now they’re three or four months down the road before they actually

00:20:29.174 –> 00:20:34.474
decide to make the, the, the effort to get into a class.

00:20:34.854 –> 00:20:39.874
So that person has already gone through 10 layers of uncomfortability before

00:20:39.874 –> 00:20:41.254
they even step onto your mats.

00:20:41.874 –> 00:20:46.394
And I think that’s something that a lot of instructors and a lot of center owners

00:20:46.394 –> 00:20:54.294
need to really understand when they’re dealing with folks that have never been in a fight before,

00:20:54.394 –> 00:20:57.174
never punched anybody before, never thought about punching anybody before.

00:20:58.774 –> 00:21:05.094
They’re on your mats. They’ve already done a lot of things that were uncomfortable for them.

00:21:05.354 –> 00:21:10.394
And if my center, if my class, if my instructors, if my members,

00:21:10.754 –> 00:21:16.274
if none of that is inviting and welcoming, they’re not going to stay.

00:21:16.534 –> 00:21:17.454
They’re not going to come back.

00:21:17.794 –> 00:21:23.194
You know, that today, there are just way too many other options for people,

00:21:23.514 –> 00:21:28.394
you know, a lot of other activities for things and things for people to do.

00:21:28.614 –> 00:21:34.934
So if we’re not cultivating a, a, and engendering a culture that yes,

00:21:34.934 –> 00:21:36.654
it does what we say we’re going to do, right.

00:21:36.674 –> 00:21:39.094
We’re going to get you into good shape and we’re going to get you some skills

00:21:39.094 –> 00:21:42.774
that, that hopefully you never need, but will enhance your survivability,

00:21:43.254 –> 00:21:45.414
but in an environment that’s.

00:21:46.547 –> 00:21:54.387
Welcoming. It’s familial, you know, it’s, it’s, you walk into our centers and, you know, it’s not,

00:21:54.947 –> 00:22:01.627
there’s not black everywhere and, and camo and, you know, people walking around

00:22:01.627 –> 00:22:04.787
in BDUs and. You don’t have your camo pants on.

00:22:05.547 –> 00:22:08.547
Yeah. You know, I mean, I’m not running a bootcamp, you know,

00:22:08.627 –> 00:22:13.127
I’m not, people that are coming to train with us, if they wanted to join the

00:22:13.127 –> 00:22:16.667
IDF, they could go do that. You know, Israel will take you. Yes.

00:22:17.667 –> 00:22:23.247
And that’s fine if that’s what you want to do. But most most of the people that are coming to us,

00:22:23.247 –> 00:22:30.027
they’re looking for something different on the fitness and conditioning and

00:22:30.027 –> 00:22:34.407
strengthening side and something that, you know, is a stress relief.

00:22:34.407 –> 00:22:37.187
People love to just come in and hit a heavy bag, you know, I mean,

00:22:37.487 –> 00:22:39.987
that that’s a fun thing to do. You can get in good shape.

00:22:40.427 –> 00:22:44.567
And then, you know, there are people that want to learn to fight or that want to learn self-defense,

00:22:44.987 –> 00:22:50.127
but they want to do it in a way where if they’re a doctor or a lawyer or a banker

00:22:50.127 –> 00:22:52.587
or an accountant or whatever, when they go to work tomorrow,

00:22:52.727 –> 00:22:55.747
their nose is in the same place as where it was the day before. Yeah.

00:22:56.847 –> 00:23:00.407
So that, that, they don’t want to look like Ed Norton’s character.

00:23:01.427 –> 00:23:07.667
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, And it just, and it’s a fine line to walk between having

00:23:07.667 –> 00:23:11.207
a realistic training environment, but then also, you know.

00:23:12.027 –> 00:23:18.227
Being safe and understanding that most of the people that are coming to us are

00:23:18.227 –> 00:23:21.087
coming here to enhance their lives.

00:23:21.147 –> 00:23:25.147
Well, if, if a lot of people are getting injured during training,

00:23:25.387 –> 00:23:28.027
then we’re doing the opposite of what we say we’re going to do. Yeah.

00:23:28.487 –> 00:23:32.167
The other flip side of that is, you know, everybody thinks about getting new

00:23:32.167 –> 00:23:36.487
members in the door and students and keeping students in.

00:23:36.667 –> 00:23:40.907
But what are the challenges for the more advanced people for the black belts?

00:23:41.027 –> 00:23:44.687
Is it the same? Is it that they’re, they think now that because they’re a black

00:23:44.687 –> 00:23:51.107
belt that there is no need to be uncomfortable anymore, that they’ve achieved all they need to.

00:23:51.327 –> 00:23:58.007
It’s just keep upkeep. I mean, what are the challenges for those expert-level folks?

00:23:58.027 –> 00:24:00.967
Or for that matter, I know you do a lot of work with pro athletes.

00:24:01.187 –> 00:24:03.987
Like, what are the challenges for them? Or are they the same?

00:24:04.587 –> 00:24:10.647
Yeah, I think the challenges are, A, insecurity, understanding that just because

00:24:10.647 –> 00:24:16.307
you’ve attained a certain level, that really, you know, that level was just

00:24:16.307 –> 00:24:17.947
determined by somebody else.

00:24:18.707 –> 00:24:22.867
That that doesn’t mean that if you’re a black belt, that there’s some blue belt

00:24:22.867 –> 00:24:27.307
out there that can’t kick the shit out of you, you know, and,

00:24:27.887 –> 00:24:30.787
and, and understanding that that’s okay.

00:24:31.927 –> 00:24:35.847
Because what, what I’ve seen happen is when people achieve a certain level.

00:24:37.500 –> 00:24:43.240
Whether fair or unfair, they and other people put them on some sort of pedestal.

00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:50.260
And that, that pedestal means that, you know, they are somehow undefeatable

00:24:50.260 –> 00:24:53.580
now they’re invincible and that’s just not true.

00:24:53.980 –> 00:25:02.940
Nonsense. And, and, and I think if you kind of create a culture where people understand that,

00:25:03.060 –> 00:25:08.500
then And you’ll have black belts training with with white belts and blue belts

00:25:08.500 –> 00:25:10.080
and purple belts or whatever.

00:25:11.680 –> 00:25:15.120
Otherwise, you’re going to you’re going to have people get burned out.

00:25:15.220 –> 00:25:16.840
They’re going to reach a certain level.

00:25:17.600 –> 00:25:21.100
They’re going to think that they’ve got it all figured out, that they don’t

00:25:21.100 –> 00:25:22.120
need to do anything else.

00:25:22.280 –> 00:25:26.540
And, you know, and maybe they don’t for what their goals were. You know, I don’t know.

00:25:27.800 –> 00:25:34.780
But if I’m a 40-year-old black belt in Krav Maga or Jiu-Jitsu or whatever,

00:25:35.240 –> 00:25:37.960
I figure I’ve got at least another 40 years to go.

00:25:38.440 –> 00:25:47.080
So if we, again, recognize that the odds of me being held at gunpoint are infinitesimal

00:25:47.080 –> 00:25:48.720
compared to the odds of me dying to…

00:25:49.788 –> 00:25:54.408
Some, some sort of illness, then I want to keep challenging myself and I want

00:25:54.408 –> 00:25:56.808
to keep pushing myself and I want to keep, you know, I want to,

00:25:57.128 –> 00:26:00.908
if, if enhancing survivability is the goal, then keeping my,

00:26:00.968 –> 00:26:05.688
my blood pressure and my cholesterol down are part of that. Yeah.

00:26:05.928 –> 00:26:10.208
And so staying active and staying physical and staying challenged is important

00:26:10.208 –> 00:26:14.668
and doing it in a way where I have enough security to recognize that,

00:26:15.208 –> 00:26:18.988
okay, I’m, and I’m talking for me now, I’m, I’m 45 years old.

00:26:19.208 –> 00:26:20.808
I’ve got a bunch of injuries.

00:26:21.568 –> 00:26:29.308
I could work into a jujitsu class tonight and probably get subbed by a 25 year

00:26:29.308 –> 00:26:33.088
old blue belt, you know, and, and, and that’s okay.

00:26:33.408 –> 00:26:37.888
You know, it, when it, when it becomes not okay is when you create a,

00:26:38.148 –> 00:26:44.288
an environment where it’s not okay, you know, but if, if people see that happening

00:26:44.288 –> 00:26:48.008
and nobody makes a big deal out of it, then it’s not a big deal.

00:26:48.228 –> 00:26:52.768
And so I think you, you kind of break through some of the barriers that hold

00:26:52.768 –> 00:26:58.848
more of these advanced folks kind of back from continuing to grow and to continue to develop.

00:26:59.048 –> 00:27:02.808
Plus they’re not doing what somebody did for them at some point,

00:27:02.828 –> 00:27:08.748
you know, at some point, some higher ranking person trained with you and,

00:27:08.828 –> 00:27:11.848
and, and worked with you. And that’s what helped get you to your level.

00:27:12.008 –> 00:27:14.788
So if you’re, if you’re not doing that, if you’re not given that,

00:27:14.908 –> 00:27:19.628
that same kind of energy and effort and attention to people that are lesser

00:27:19.628 –> 00:27:24.848
ranked because you’re insecure, then that’s a real problem. Yeah.

00:27:26.428 –> 00:27:29.928
Circling back to another tagline

00:27:29.928 –> 00:27:35.668
of yours and your schools is another one that I get that I dig a lot is,

00:27:36.068 –> 00:27:40.388
and you know, I’ve even thought of it in context of the office space in the

00:27:40.388 –> 00:27:42.628
corporate world, but everyone is fighting something.

00:27:43.108 –> 00:27:47.028
I think that’s an important thing for us all to keep in mind.

00:27:49.315 –> 00:27:55.035
And and that could be something as small as you know getting out of bed you know i mean,

00:27:57.015 –> 00:28:02.055
there are days where you know and depending on what’s going on in certain people’s lives,

00:28:02.575 –> 00:28:07.315
you don’t know what they’ve been through that day or that morning you know maybe

00:28:07.315 –> 00:28:12.135
they they they had to spend 90 minutes in line at the dmv or whatever you know

00:28:12.135 –> 00:28:14.815
that everybody’s dealing with their own shit.

00:28:15.275 –> 00:28:21.595
And while any one little thing may not seem like much, the cumulative effect

00:28:21.595 –> 00:28:24.415
can be caustic, you know, it’s toxic.

00:28:24.415 –> 00:28:34.295
And I think it’s easy for us looking at situations from 10,000 feet to dismiss certain things.

00:28:34.535 –> 00:28:40.355
And so everybody is dealing with something that the rest of us don’t know about,

00:28:40.735 –> 00:28:44.835
you know, at least on the, the, the real deep levels.

00:28:45.475 –> 00:28:50.435
And so I think it’s important for us to, to recognize that, that a fight can

00:28:50.435 –> 00:28:51.855
mean a whole lot of things.

00:28:53.015 –> 00:28:57.375
And again, you know, we keep, I keep circling back to kind of familiar themes,

00:28:57.435 –> 00:29:00.675
but all of this stuff kind of ties together to me, you know,

00:29:00.775 –> 00:29:03.535
it’s like, if I want to be able to.

00:29:04.525 –> 00:29:11.425
Control my emotions and control my ability to deal with life’s daily bullshit,

00:29:11.425 –> 00:29:17.485
then being physically fit and strong and confident and secure,

00:29:17.805 –> 00:29:22.625
all that stuff helps me to understand there are variables within my control

00:29:22.625 –> 00:29:25.725
and variables that are not within my control.

00:29:25.985 –> 00:29:31.845
And so pushing myself in those ways, fighting the fights that I can have some

00:29:31.845 –> 00:29:34.225
influence over is important.

00:29:34.845 –> 00:29:39.825
And then not giving energy and time and resource and effort to things that are

00:29:39.825 –> 00:29:42.185
outside of my control is important.

00:29:42.445 –> 00:29:49.145
You know, the things that I think all of us at some point, we kind of give a

00:29:49.145 –> 00:29:51.485
lot of attention to that we really can’t affect.

00:29:52.005 –> 00:29:56.865
That just, our time is finite. You know, our energy is finite.

00:29:57.045 –> 00:30:04.105
And worrying about things that we really can’t do anything about is caustic.

00:30:04.285 –> 00:30:05.945
I mean, that stuff will wear on us.

00:30:06.165 –> 00:30:09.605
So fighting the fights we can fight, doing what we can about those things,

00:30:09.825 –> 00:30:13.005
and then kind of moving on is important.

00:30:13.425 –> 00:30:19.605
But yeah, everyone fighting something thing, I think maybe out of all of the

00:30:19.605 –> 00:30:24.185
taglines or mantras or whatever we have, that one may be the most universal.

00:30:24.525 –> 00:30:33.565
You know, I think everybody on some level is dealing with something that is

00:30:33.565 –> 00:30:36.365
challenging them in some way.

00:30:37.285 –> 00:30:42.265
And that’s hard with, I think, with social media a lot of times because you

00:30:42.265 –> 00:30:46.385
get the two extremes, but for the most part, people put the good shit that’s

00:30:46.385 –> 00:30:47.605
going on in social media.

00:30:48.385 –> 00:30:53.145
Absolutely. If you’re sitting at home and you’re dealing with,

00:30:53.165 –> 00:30:58.105
I don’t know, whatever it is, you know, bad grades or whatever.

00:30:59.628 –> 00:31:03.668
Difficult work environment or a bad relationship or whatever,

00:31:03.668 –> 00:31:08.288
and you see all of these people that are posting everything going on great in

00:31:08.288 –> 00:31:10.708
their lives on, on Facebook or Instagram or whatever,

00:31:10.948 –> 00:31:14.908
I think it’s easy to get caught up in that and think that you’re the only one

00:31:14.908 –> 00:31:20.148
that’s having to deal with shit, but everybody’s having to deal with shit. Everybody is.

00:31:20.568 –> 00:31:24.368
Yeah. So yeah. And I think, go ahead.

00:31:24.568 –> 00:31:27.348
No, I was just going to say, you know, and I think the other piece of that,

00:31:27.348 –> 00:31:32.768
at least for me is to keep my own shit in check, knowing that someone out there

00:31:32.768 –> 00:31:37.588
is going through something similar or nine times out of 10, you know, I say it a lot.

00:31:38.388 –> 00:31:42.768
Just when you think you got it bad, someone’s got it 10 times worse than you do.

00:31:43.328 –> 00:31:49.548
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s, it’s, I, I, I bought a new truck,

00:31:49.828 –> 00:31:54.068
I don’t know, a couple of months ago and I’d had it, I don’t know,

00:31:54.068 –> 00:31:55.468
two, three weeks, I think,

00:31:56.228 –> 00:32:01.388
and a tree limb fell and shattered the windshield, dented the hood.

00:32:02.028 –> 00:32:07.008
And, you know, it, it’d be real easy to get caught up and, and that’s just bullshit.

00:32:07.128 –> 00:32:08.148
I know that really sucked, whatever.

00:32:08.328 –> 00:32:11.268
But I mean, at the end of the day, I just bought a new truck.

00:32:11.648 –> 00:32:15.208
Yeah. You know, I mean, there are people out there that they don’t know when,

00:32:15.348 –> 00:32:17.408
where their next meal is coming from. Sure.

00:32:17.648 –> 00:32:22.588
So, you know, it’s, it’s all relative. Right. In the overall scheme of things. Yeah.

00:32:23.088 –> 00:32:26.608
That’s right. Keeping that into perspective is important. And it’s really,

00:32:26.828 –> 00:32:28.428
I mean, everybody does it.

00:32:28.588 –> 00:32:32.408
You know, everybody, because at the end of the day, I mean, you’re the one dealing

00:32:32.408 –> 00:32:35.368
with your own stuff. So, I mean, it can seem like,

00:32:36.069 –> 00:32:39.929
a lot. And I don’t, you know, there’s a great quote and I can’t even remember

00:32:39.929 –> 00:32:42.549
who says it now, but comparison is the thief of joy.

00:32:43.349 –> 00:32:48.509
You know, that, that’s a huge thing, I think. Absolutely.

00:32:49.709 –> 00:32:53.929
So shifting gears and getting into some of the things that I wanted to talk

00:32:53.929 –> 00:32:58.009
to you specifically about, cause I know like, for example, here in the last, what is it?

00:32:58.169 –> 00:33:01.209
Maybe it’s even been longer, but year and a half, two years,

00:33:01.209 –> 00:33:04.709
you’ve taken on your own knife, had your own knife built.

00:33:05.309 –> 00:33:09.809
And just want to talk about how gun and knife play come into the picture and

00:33:09.809 –> 00:33:12.229
where it’s appropriate and how it’s being done.

00:33:12.409 –> 00:33:16.729
And is it getting better? Because, you know, there was a time where we’d be

00:33:16.729 –> 00:33:21.749
up, you know, a lot of instructors would be up in front of Krav class teaching tap and rack.

00:33:21.929 –> 00:33:27.109
And I guarantee you that 80% of the folks teaching tack and wrap and gun defense

00:33:27.109 –> 00:33:29.329
didn’t even know what tap and rack was, right?

00:33:29.589 –> 00:33:34.009
Or it had even shot a gun before. And I always said, being a gun person myself,

00:33:34.249 –> 00:33:38.829
I always said, how can you have folks handling firearms that have never even

00:33:38.829 –> 00:33:40.309
handled a firearm before, right?

00:33:40.409 –> 00:33:44.289
Much less talking about terminology like tap and rack and all of that.

00:33:44.489 –> 00:33:48.209
So, you know, the good news is I think it seems like, and I don’t know where

00:33:48.209 –> 00:33:51.229
the spark got lit, but I was happy to see it either way.

00:33:51.229 –> 00:33:54.289
Somewhere along the line some crop school

00:33:54.289 –> 00:33:58.209
or schools decided to start incorporating more

00:33:58.209 –> 00:34:01.729
gunplay like actually going to the range and allowing students

00:34:01.729 –> 00:34:04.809
the opportunity to learn how to shoot before they

00:34:04.809 –> 00:34:10.949
learn gun defense and all of that so how did that come about and how does it

00:34:10.949 –> 00:34:19.009
fit yeah i i think and and to kind of they’ll tell them what you said i remember

00:34:19.009 –> 00:34:23.189
several years ago So I was teaching some active killer defense stuff in Europe.

00:34:23.589 –> 00:34:27.049
And in Europe, there are a ton of different crime of guy organizations.

00:34:27.369 –> 00:34:32.509
I mean, you can have a town of 10,000 people and have six different crime of

00:34:32.509 –> 00:34:34.129
guy organizations represented.

00:34:34.709 –> 00:34:41.389
And so I was using this particular course, and it had 40 or 50 people in there.

00:34:41.549 –> 00:34:44.329
And so there was a lot of tapping and racking happening.

00:34:44.569 –> 00:34:48.109
I’m looking around, I’m thinking, well, we’re in Europe. I’m pretty sure none

00:34:48.109 –> 00:34:49.689
of these people have shot a gun before.

00:34:49.929 –> 00:34:53.289
You know, like, so I stopped and I asked the group and again,

00:34:53.369 –> 00:34:55.909
I said that there was 40 or 50 people in there.

00:34:56.569 –> 00:35:00.809
I asked who’s ever shot a gun before and I had two or three guys raise their hand.

00:35:00.949 –> 00:35:05.829
They were both former military and, you know, so, so they had shot rifles,

00:35:06.429 –> 00:35:10.849
spent time with rifles and I said, look, I understand why you’re tapping and

00:35:10.849 –> 00:35:15.429
racking because you, that’s what somebody else has shown you and taught you and whatever, but.

00:35:17.228 –> 00:35:20.528
What are you doing? You’ve never even shot a gun. I mean, it’s,

00:35:20.528 –> 00:35:21.888
it’s, it’s a plastic gun.

00:35:24.288 –> 00:35:27.368
It’s a wasted motion. It’s doing nothing for you.

00:35:27.828 –> 00:35:31.508
And I mean, it’s not just Europe. I mean, it’s, it’s here too.

00:35:31.728 –> 00:35:36.948
And so I don’t, I don’t know at what point kind of the, we’ve been running firearms

00:35:36.948 –> 00:35:40.988
stuff as part of our black belt tests for quite a while.

00:35:41.368 –> 00:35:45.788
And then just in the past few years, we, we kind of started trickling it down

00:35:45.788 –> 00:35:52.368
to where, you know, we offer programs pretty much just right off the street

00:35:52.368 –> 00:35:54.488
for inner training with guns.

00:35:54.988 –> 00:36:00.428
And I think, especially in America where, I mean, you know, there,

00:36:00.508 –> 00:36:06.988
there are a lot of firearms in, in, in, in the country and the training,

00:36:07.468 –> 00:36:11.768
I’m using air quotes now, is woefully inefficient.

00:36:12.368 –> 00:36:16.848
You know, I mean, the number of people that go and get a concealed carry license

00:36:16.848 –> 00:36:21.288
and do that eight-hour class, it’s a complete joke, and then think that they’re

00:36:21.288 –> 00:36:24.348
good to go is just a scary, scary thing.

00:36:25.168 –> 00:36:29.828
And so the more that we kind of saw that and had people coming in,

00:36:29.948 –> 00:36:34.108
and I own two training centers myself, and they’re 45 minutes apart,

00:36:34.128 –> 00:36:35.968
but they might as well be on different planets.

00:36:36.528 –> 00:36:43.608
And one of my centers, my Charlotte Center, there are a lot of folks that are not native to this area.

00:36:44.148 –> 00:36:49.368
They’ve come from up north mostly where, you know, guns just aren’t…

00:36:51.077 –> 00:36:53.017
Legal law abiding people just

00:36:53.017 –> 00:36:57.497
don’t have the same kind of, of access and opportunity to, to firearms.

00:36:59.657 –> 00:37:03.717
So I felt like it was something that we really needed to, if we were going to

00:37:03.717 –> 00:37:07.657
teach people how to take a gun away, they needed to have familiarity with,

00:37:07.777 –> 00:37:09.477
with what that was going to be like.

00:37:09.477 –> 00:37:15.557
The first time you hear or feel or, or see or smell a gun going off shouldn’t

00:37:15.557 –> 00:37:18.457
be when it’s while you’re trying to take it from somebody. Right.

00:37:18.957 –> 00:37:21.977
Yeah. wrong time to have that experience for sure

00:37:21.977 –> 00:37:24.977
and that’s what i always thought i thought it was the one piece like

00:37:24.977 –> 00:37:30.857
here we are teaching firearm defenses but who in here has actually even shot

00:37:30.857 –> 00:37:37.397
a pistol at the range before you know to understand those because if you haven’t

00:37:37.397 –> 00:37:40.257
and you grab the gun and it goes off in your hand for sure you’re going to let

00:37:40.257 –> 00:37:44.637
go yeah yeah you know A little startling. You just are. Yeah.

00:37:46.017 –> 00:37:50.837
Knife, this is one I’ve harped on, and, you know, maybe things have changed,

00:37:50.837 –> 00:37:52.857
although I haven’t seen it or heard about it.

00:37:54.117 –> 00:37:57.677
Knife defense for me is kind of, I’m not going to say a joke, right?

00:37:57.777 –> 00:38:00.717
Because if you do it enough, at least you’ve got maybe some,

00:38:00.717 –> 00:38:04.997
I don’t want to say tool in the toolbox, but you know where I’m going with that.

00:38:04.997 –> 00:38:09.637
But the thing that I’ve struggled with in Krav over the years is that,

00:38:09.677 –> 00:38:13.737
you know, maybe for static knife defenses, eh, okay.

00:38:14.397 –> 00:38:20.717
But this whole dynamic knife defense, you know, 360 defense setting us up for

00:38:20.717 –> 00:38:24.837
that, I’ve always struggled with really what that’s going to be like, you know.

00:38:24.957 –> 00:38:30.497
And if you’re like me, you probably watch tons and tons and tons of security

00:38:30.497 –> 00:38:34.777
footage and of knife attacks. And guess what? No surprise.

00:38:35.317 –> 00:38:41.597
They don’t ever happen like we teach in class. So is there anything being done about that?

00:38:43.242 –> 00:38:49.022
I mean, our approach to knife defense is vastly, drastically different than

00:38:49.022 –> 00:38:51.162
the traditional Krav Maga approach.

00:38:51.322 –> 00:38:56.262
And even with that said, and this is, I say this anytime I teach knife defense,

00:38:56.462 –> 00:38:59.722
I don’t like our knife defense. I just like it better than anybody else’s.

00:39:00.662 –> 00:39:04.862
You know, it’s like, it’s honest. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00:39:05.462 –> 00:39:09.202
To me, knife is the scariest thing to have to deal with. Yeah. Period.

00:39:09.422 –> 00:39:16.422
End of story. You know, it just, it’s just a very different kind of dynamic than a firearm is.

00:39:17.122 –> 00:39:23.842
And so when dealing with knife, the first thing is, you know,

00:39:23.922 –> 00:39:25.842
we tell people, look, you have to learn how to fight.

00:39:26.062 –> 00:39:30.202
And I kind of already addressed that in this conversation. But the idea that

00:39:30.202 –> 00:39:33.882
if you can’t fight another human being that doesn’t have a knife,

00:39:34.082 –> 00:39:37.102
how the hell do you think you’re going to be able to fight him if he has one? Yeah.

00:39:37.482 –> 00:39:41.882
You know? Yeah. And so all of a sudden, you know, now I’ve got this,

00:39:41.882 –> 00:39:46.482
this knife technique that’s going to allow me to do this, that and the other. Well, bullshit.

00:39:47.262 –> 00:39:53.062
Like if that if that guy’s grabbing you and sewing machine stabbing you in the

00:39:53.062 –> 00:39:57.302
in the gut and you don’t have any

00:39:57.302 –> 00:40:01.622
kind of fighting skills and fighting wherewithal, you’re going to be done.

00:40:01.622 –> 00:40:07.702
And so we kind of go at it from that approach where we teach people to fight

00:40:07.702 –> 00:40:12.582
and then we teach them once they’ve attained a certain level,

00:40:12.582 –> 00:40:15.522
then we put a knife in that hand and it’s not,

00:40:15.702 –> 00:40:17.842
you know, okay, they’re going to stab this way and they’re going to stab that

00:40:17.842 –> 00:40:19.142
way and they’re going to stab this other way.

00:40:19.142 –> 00:40:24.102
And we teach how to deal with, you know, checking the hands and being able to

00:40:24.102 –> 00:40:29.242
get to the to the draw of the blade and everything in between.

00:40:30.822 –> 00:40:36.722
And the whole idea of defend and counter, it’s a great concept.

00:40:37.502 –> 00:40:41.722
It just doesn’t work. It fails under stress.

00:40:41.902 –> 00:40:46.782
It fails under pressure. And so we emphasize getting control and control for

00:40:46.782 –> 00:40:52.142
us is two on one in some form or fashion and then, and then doing damage.

00:40:52.322 –> 00:40:56.202
And by two on one, just to clarify is two hands on that knife,

00:40:56.362 –> 00:41:00.442
on that knife arm, on that knife hand, right? Two hands on the one. Right. Yeah.

00:41:02.762 –> 00:41:05.542
And then still recognizing that it’s going to suck and that you’re probably

00:41:05.542 –> 00:41:09.422
going to get cut, you know, and we’re trying to minimize damage as best we can.

00:41:09.422 –> 00:41:13.822
And we’re going to disengage as quickly as it as it feasibly makes sense.

00:41:14.022 –> 00:41:16.862
Not not as quickly as possible, but as quickly as feasible.

00:41:18.662 –> 00:41:24.422
So knife, I think everybody’s looking for the holy grail when it comes to dealing with with knife.

00:41:24.842 –> 00:41:27.862
And that’s why you’ll see so many different approaches out there.

00:41:27.862 –> 00:41:30.762
And if any of the approach to me my my

00:41:30.762 –> 00:41:34.822
personal opinion is any approach that looks simple

00:41:34.822 –> 00:41:37.582
and easy is a lie yeah it just does

00:41:37.582 –> 00:41:41.102
it just doesn’t exist with knife it’s going to be hard and it’s going to be

00:41:41.102 –> 00:41:44.922
a fight and you know yeah maybe i can punch somebody in the face and take off

00:41:44.922 –> 00:41:51.202
running maybe that may be an option yeah but but i think it’s not very likely

00:41:51.202 –> 00:41:55.062
yeah and so again And you have to learn how to fight.

00:41:55.362 –> 00:42:00.382
And I think when dealing with knife, you know, wrestling is massively important.

00:42:00.542 –> 00:42:05.402
Understanding how to control another human being that’s trying to do damage to you.

00:42:06.102 –> 00:42:08.962
That has a tool and is trying to do damage. Yeah.

00:42:09.322 –> 00:42:12.642
That’s right. Yeah. That’s right. And if you don’t believe anything that Ryan’s

00:42:12.642 –> 00:42:16.222
saying right now, I would challenge you just to go out and look at some security

00:42:16.222 –> 00:42:19.122
footage of knife attacks and how they really happen.

00:42:19.122 –> 00:42:25.722
And I watched one just before calling you, which is why I was a couple of minutes late and it was nasty.

00:42:25.882 –> 00:42:28.942
It was right in the middle of the streets. I’m sure it was in some foreign country.

00:42:29.082 –> 00:42:32.922
I’m more than certain on it, but it was brutal.

00:42:33.322 –> 00:42:38.702
And, you know, I would say think in context of those defense techniques that

00:42:38.702 –> 00:42:42.842
you’re learning and feel so confident in and apply them to that situation right

00:42:42.842 –> 00:42:46.302
there. And you’ll begin punching holes into it yourself.

00:42:47.142 –> 00:42:51.282
So I know you got a knife and I’ve been, since I knew you’d come out with it,

00:42:51.362 –> 00:42:52.442
I haven’t gotten one yet.

00:42:52.922 –> 00:42:57.502
A bit of a knife fan myself, but how did, why, what made you decide to get your own?

00:42:57.662 –> 00:43:01.102
And then the other thing that I’ve been dying to ask since I saw that you had

00:43:01.102 –> 00:43:03.862
it is why did you go with the Tonto point on it?

00:43:05.984 –> 00:43:08.764
So as for the why i was asked

00:43:08.764 –> 00:43:11.644
to you know it’s something that

00:43:11.644 –> 00:43:20.924
wasn’t really on my radar in terms of designing or creating one but i was asked

00:43:20.924 –> 00:43:24.824
to do it i mean it seemed like a cool project to be involved with and and so

00:43:24.824 –> 00:43:30.304
i did yeah and i did a lot of a lot of research a lot of talking to.

00:43:30.684 –> 00:43:33.624
Knife people and fight people and, and, and whatever.

00:43:33.884 –> 00:43:42.084
But we came at it from the perspective of a fighter who has a knife as opposed

00:43:42.084 –> 00:43:47.164
to, you know, a Kali person or a scrimma person or, or whatever.

00:43:47.164 –> 00:43:51.564
So not, not a knife person, but we came at it from the perspective of,

00:43:51.724 –> 00:43:57.164
of, of somebody with fight skills that may want some sort of force multiplier.

00:43:57.164 –> 00:44:03.164
And that was kind of the idea behind the design. It’s super simple, minimalistic.

00:44:03.464 –> 00:44:08.684
You know, it’s something that I’m looking to get in my hand and I’m just going

00:44:08.684 –> 00:44:10.364
to fight the way that I normally fight.

00:44:10.364 –> 00:44:15.764
But now I have this blade in my hand. And as for the blade style,

00:44:16.124 –> 00:44:20.824
since then, we’ve introduced a drop point also.

00:44:21.024 –> 00:44:29.824
But because it’s a kind of single-use blade, you know, it’s not something that

00:44:29.824 –> 00:44:35.804
I’m really looking to open boxes with and, you know, try things open with or whatever.

00:44:35.804 –> 00:44:39.564
It’s something that I’ve got on my waistband that I hope that I never have to use.

00:44:39.564 –> 00:44:48.464
We wanted something that was kind of versatile, that was designed more for kind

00:44:48.464 –> 00:44:51.264
of just stabbing, punching holes in things.

00:44:51.384 –> 00:44:55.864
So we wanted something with a strong edge geometry.

00:44:57.164 –> 00:45:04.184
And that’s where the kind of the modified Tanto geometry came in.

00:45:05.524 –> 00:45:08.344
We did do drop point because you know

00:45:08.344 –> 00:45:11.624
it’s funny knife people are

00:45:11.624 –> 00:45:14.364
an interesting bunch they like what

00:45:14.364 –> 00:45:19.924
they like and you know that is what it is i came at it more from the perspective

00:45:19.924 –> 00:45:26.204
of this is something that i’m probably never ever gonna have to use and if i

00:45:26.204 –> 00:45:31.344
have to use it i want it to do exactly what it’s supposed to do and so that

00:45:31.344 –> 00:45:33.904
was kind of the thinking behind it and And being able to,

00:45:34.064 –> 00:45:39.684
I mean, when I teach, you know, offensive knife work, blade work, or whatever, I mean,

00:45:40.724 –> 00:45:42.644
again, we start from the perspective of, okay.

00:45:44.245 –> 00:45:48.145
This is how you fight. You know, this is focusment work. This is wrestling.

00:45:48.325 –> 00:45:49.525
This is clench work, whatever.

00:45:50.165 –> 00:45:53.005
Now we’re going to do that, but I’ve got this knife in my hand.

00:45:53.625 –> 00:45:57.005
Obviously, we give some consideration to how to access it.

00:45:57.305 –> 00:46:02.065
But beyond that, it’s, you know, boxing with the knife in my hand.

00:46:02.205 –> 00:46:03.745
I’m wrestling with a knife in my hand.

00:46:03.905 –> 00:46:07.705
And from that perspective, it was important to have a design that was,

00:46:07.905 –> 00:46:10.725
you know, something I could put in my hand that was relatively easy to retain

00:46:10.725 –> 00:46:17.725
and I could transfer to a pistol if, if situation dictated without having to

00:46:17.725 –> 00:46:19.645
resheathe or drop the knife or whatever.

00:46:20.265 –> 00:46:23.645
So that’s, that’s kind of the thinking behind the design. Sure.

00:46:23.945 –> 00:46:28.085
Well, I know you’ve got stuff to do. I did have just a few more questions for you.

00:46:28.205 –> 00:46:32.025
If you got time, the, the one that, you know,

00:46:32.265 –> 00:46:37.865
that I keep having conversations with people and I haven’t figured out myself

00:46:37.865 –> 00:46:42.565
how it should be tackled is this idea, you know, that Krav or whatever self-defense,

00:46:42.565 –> 00:46:47.205
it seems like when it’s teaching women how to defend themselves,

00:46:47.545 –> 00:46:49.585
you know, it’s very cool to put

00:46:49.585 –> 00:46:53.905
on seminars and talk about terrible things that have happened to women,

00:46:54.325 –> 00:46:57.965
you know, supposedly motivate or inspire them to keep coming back.

00:46:58.345 –> 00:47:06.145
But the lessons seem to generally be, and you tell me if you’ve seen the same.

00:47:06.805 –> 00:47:10.845
Generally be nine times out of 10 or more, it’s all about the stranger.

00:47:10.925 –> 00:47:16.245
It’s all about the guy in the black ski mask hiding behind the bushes or in the dark alley.

00:47:16.785 –> 00:47:22.265
I’ve seen multiple women’s seminars conducted where somebody that happens to

00:47:22.265 –> 00:47:26.225
have the white painter’s van with no windows pulls up behind the school and

00:47:26.225 –> 00:47:31.025
opens up the door and they spend a half an hour dragging different ladies into

00:47:31.025 –> 00:47:34.005
the back of it and having them kick the shields to get out again,

00:47:34.285 –> 00:47:40.545
but we know most of the time it’s not the unknown attacker. It’s the known attacker for women.

00:47:40.845 –> 00:47:46.445
So can you talk a little bit about that and how to go about what you guys might be doing?

00:47:47.504 –> 00:47:53.084
Yeah. So first of all, like it goes back to a lot of the things we’ve already touched on.

00:47:53.604 –> 00:47:59.584
It’s not cool and fun and sexy to talk about, you know.

00:48:01.044 –> 00:48:08.684
Things like awareness and interpersonal relationships and those kinds of things.

00:48:08.684 –> 00:48:11.584
It’s much cooler to to bring a van out

00:48:11.584 –> 00:48:14.684
into the parking lot and drill somebody throwing

00:48:14.684 –> 00:48:17.644
a fucking pillowcase over your head and and dragging

00:48:17.644 –> 00:48:21.104
you into the car and you beating the shit out of them yeah that makes

00:48:21.104 –> 00:48:27.284
for way better instagram videos yeah than me sitting in a in a room talking

00:48:27.284 –> 00:48:32.784
about look that the the odds are if you’re going to be assaulted it’s going

00:48:32.784 –> 00:48:38.884
to be by an acquaintance It’s going to be by a boyfriend. It’s going to be by, you know, whatever.

00:48:39.404 –> 00:48:49.444
And so, you know, certain tales and recognizing that without victim blaming,

00:48:49.764 –> 00:48:55.664
there are certain things that are going to be important to understand when you’re

00:48:55.664 –> 00:48:57.664
in certain situations in certain contexts.

00:48:57.664 –> 00:49:03.284
That’s not sexy that’s not fun that’s not cool that doesn’t make for good social

00:49:03.284 –> 00:49:16.904
media views and so again our our overall way our overall approach is is antithetical to building a.

00:49:18.004 –> 00:49:26.604
Business and a following with you know mass kind of response because those things

00:49:26.604 –> 00:49:28.464
just don’t get traction.

00:49:28.764 –> 00:49:31.604
Yeah. You know, and, and it’s a lot easier too from.

00:49:33.227 –> 00:49:40.247
The student’s perspective to think about it as that shadowy person hiding behind the corner.

00:49:40.867 –> 00:49:45.207
Because nobody wants to think, well, this could happen to me from somebody that I know.

00:49:46.087 –> 00:49:49.707
Nobody wants to think about that. Nobody wants to think about the drunk uncle.

00:49:50.607 –> 00:49:54.607
That’s right. Nobody wants to put themselves in that place. So it’s a lot easier

00:49:54.607 –> 00:49:58.447
to say, well, have your keys in your hand while you’re walking to the parking

00:49:58.447 –> 00:49:59.947
lot. Know where you parked your car.

00:50:00.187 –> 00:50:03.127
Something looks strange. Walk back into the car.

00:50:03.227 –> 00:50:06.167
If you put your finger your keys between your

00:50:06.167 –> 00:50:09.447
fingers somebody goes to attack you punch them and then eyeballs and

00:50:09.447 –> 00:50:13.347
you know like that’s a much more palatable

00:50:13.347 –> 00:50:19.487
conversation to have and it’s it’s more tangible you know it’s more formulaic

00:50:19.487 –> 00:50:25.487
it it’s more if this than that but what it’s not more of is intellectually honest

00:50:25.487 –> 00:50:33.107
right yeah or realistic so right yeah i mean look the truth is,

00:50:33.987 –> 00:50:38.507
most people have very little most

00:50:38.507 –> 00:50:42.087
people don’t know what they want but most folks

00:50:42.087 –> 00:50:46.787
don’t want to train for reality because

00:50:46.787 –> 00:50:54.627
it’s reality is scary like if we do a seminar on i just had this conversation

00:50:54.627 –> 00:51:01.187
yesterday all right that somebody wanted was asking me about these kind of week-long

00:51:01.187 –> 00:51:04.487
camps that certain organizations put on in Israel.

00:51:05.667 –> 00:51:12.347
And I’m like, look, if you want to go see Israel, see some cool sites,

00:51:12.767 –> 00:51:18.327
maybe meet some cool people, have some good, hard, tough training, then go do it.

00:51:19.300 –> 00:51:24.660
But understand that you’re probably going to be doing sit-ups on a beach with

00:51:24.660 –> 00:51:26.140
waves crashing over you.

00:51:26.300 –> 00:51:31.560
And you’re going to be doing AK 47 takeaways, you know, waist deep in the ocean

00:51:31.560 –> 00:51:36.340
and these kinds of things, things that you’re never, ever, ever going to have

00:51:36.340 –> 00:51:40.340
to deal with in your entire life, you know, but it’s cool.

00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:45.840
That’s right. I’d like to take an AK away, AK 47 away from someone while in the ocean.

00:51:46.620 –> 00:51:52.640
Yes, exactly. So you got cool stories to tell. You got awesome photos and videos and whatever.

00:51:52.940 –> 00:51:58.520
And again, like, that’s fine. If that’s what, if that’s what you want, that’s fine.

00:51:58.600 –> 00:52:06.920
But don’t sell it under the guise of realistic self-defense training because it’s not. Yeah.

00:52:07.600 –> 00:52:19.520
It’s LARPing, you know, it’s it’s faux reality for the sake of like most of

00:52:19.520 –> 00:52:20.580
the stuff that we do here,

00:52:20.620 –> 00:52:27.440
it doesn’t make for good DVDs and workshops and stuff. It just doesn’t.

00:52:28.560 –> 00:52:33.220
You have to come in here and you have to touch hands and you have to wrestle

00:52:33.220 –> 00:52:36.760
against somebody that is trying to stop you from doing what you want to do and

00:52:36.760 –> 00:52:38.560
you’re trying to stop them from doing what they want to do.

00:52:38.780 –> 00:52:42.260
And you’re going to lose a lot and it’s going to be super frustrating.

00:52:43.040 –> 00:52:47.120
And that’s just not – that doesn’t look good on a DVD.

00:52:47.840 –> 00:52:50.620
Yeah. But that’s where the growth comes from, right?

00:52:51.020 –> 00:52:57.620
Yeah, 100%. Like, if I want to get better, I have to lose. Yeah, absolutely.

00:52:58.060 –> 00:53:02.280
It’s an important lesson. And that’s true in life, not just inside a training

00:53:02.280 –> 00:53:05.780
center where you’re learning BJJ or self-defense.

00:53:06.200 –> 00:53:09.240
That’s true in the corporate world. Experience it every day.

00:53:09.820 –> 00:53:14.020
So a couple of fun questions for you as we wrap this up. What do you do in your free time?

00:53:14.320 –> 00:53:18.360
You’re always traveling and teaching and dealing with pro athletes.

00:53:18.560 –> 00:53:26.880
What do you do in your free time, man? I don’t that does not exist um that’s

00:53:26.880 –> 00:53:31.780
my everyone fighting something you know honestly like if if,

00:53:32.380 –> 00:53:40.860
I have free time I’m hanging out with my kids I’ve got a son that’s almost 17

00:53:40.860 –> 00:53:47.240
I’ve got a daughter that’s 11 and if if when I have time I hang out with them

00:53:47.240 –> 00:53:49.100
we live on a little bit of land and

00:53:49.200 –> 00:53:51.620
just kind of do things out there.

00:53:51.660 –> 00:53:55.280
We’ll go take a little trip, a little day trip or something, you know.

00:53:55.420 –> 00:54:01.220
But in terms of me personally, like if I wanted to go just do something, I mean –.

00:54:02.989 –> 00:54:06.909
I was just talking about a camp in Israel. I don’t have any desire to do that,

00:54:07.029 –> 00:54:09.929
but I would go do a Thai camp in Thailand. Yeah. You know?

00:54:11.529 –> 00:54:14.669
So things like that. But for the most part, you know, I don’t,

00:54:14.769 –> 00:54:17.689
I mean, I pretty much, you own your own business.

00:54:17.849 –> 00:54:21.489
People, you know, there’s this conception or perception that,

00:54:21.869 –> 00:54:23.429
oh, you can take off whenever you want.

00:54:24.769 –> 00:54:30.449
It’s quite the opposite of that. So I don’t really have a lot of what I would call downtime.

00:54:30.449 –> 00:54:37.409
Time, but if it happens, I’m hanging with my kids or it’s still kind of work

00:54:37.409 –> 00:54:42.109
related where I, you know, I’ll, I’ll try to find some training to do,

00:54:42.249 –> 00:54:44.769
to get uncomfortable. Sure. Yeah.

00:54:45.729 –> 00:54:50.409
Last question. This is probably gonna put you on the spot a little bit intentionally

00:54:50.409 –> 00:54:53.749
and you can’t, and you can’t say your kids, right?

00:54:53.869 –> 00:54:57.429
You already, you already used that answer once. Can’t do it again. Okay.

00:54:58.149 –> 00:55:02.549
Who is the person you think you’ve had the biggest impact on doing what you do?

00:55:03.029 –> 00:55:06.469
Positive impact on you doing what you do. It goes without saying.

00:55:07.009 –> 00:55:10.109
That I’ve had an impact on? Yeah.

00:55:11.703 –> 00:55:14.003
Man, I don’t know. That’s an

00:55:14.003 –> 00:55:18.343
interesting question. And it’s funny because just two or three days ago,

00:55:18.343 –> 00:55:27.163
I got a message through my public Facebook page from a guy that trained with

00:55:27.163 –> 00:55:32.163
me when he was 10 years old, probably, and was here for a couple of years.

00:55:34.503 –> 00:55:38.563
And he’s got two kids of his own now. And, A, it made me feel very old,

00:55:38.603 –> 00:55:41.203
but he has two kids of his own now.

00:55:41.203 –> 00:55:47.543
And he just reached out out of the blue and said, you know, I just want to thank

00:55:47.543 –> 00:55:52.303
you and let you know that you’re a big reason that I am the person that I am today.

00:55:52.543 –> 00:55:57.183
And this is somebody I probably haven’t seen in a decade, haven’t heard from in a decade.

00:55:57.583 –> 00:56:02.923
And so that was a pretty powerful kind of thing to read.

00:56:03.623 –> 00:56:09.463
And, you know, there’s been a few like that over the years that I could point to.

00:56:11.083 –> 00:56:15.063
Those are the kinds of people and the kinds of messages and things that make

00:56:15.063 –> 00:56:21.103
it all worthwhile I have days just like anybody else where getting out of bed

00:56:21.103 –> 00:56:26.083
and going to work for the most part to me this is not work this is fun and this

00:56:26.083 –> 00:56:29.323
is what I enjoy doing I love it I wouldn’t trade it for anything,

00:56:29.903 –> 00:56:32.783
but there’s still those days where it’s like,

00:56:33.603 –> 00:56:37.483
if I teach straight punches one more fucking time you know.

00:56:39.223 –> 00:56:44.083
But it’s messages like that that make it all worthwhile and remind you that,

00:56:44.103 –> 00:56:47.743
you know, yeah, I’m teaching a straight punch, but there’s a hell of a lot more

00:56:47.743 –> 00:56:52.383
that goes around that lesson than just the act of throwing that punch.

00:56:52.863 –> 00:56:57.383
So I don’t know that I really answered your question, but that’s kind of,

00:56:57.403 –> 00:57:01.323
you know, what gets me up and going every day.

00:57:01.883 –> 00:57:04.183
Sure. Yeah, I’ll let you get away with that one, I guess.

00:57:05.243 –> 00:57:08.423
I appreciate it. So how can people find you and get ahold of you?

00:57:09.903 –> 00:57:16.523
Fitthefight.com, FitthefightRepublic on Facebook. And then I have a public Facebook

00:57:16.523 –> 00:57:18.203
page also, just Ryan Hoover.

00:57:18.563 –> 00:57:26.543
And anybody can email me. It’s just Ryan at Fitthefight.com if they so desire.

00:57:26.803 –> 00:57:31.743
We always have some kind of event or training or something going on.

00:57:33.783 –> 00:57:38.863
Usually starts back up. Third week in January, we’ll be in Vegas for SHOT Show,

00:57:38.943 –> 00:57:43.063
and we’re doing a big seminar out there, and it’ll be hot and heavy for the

00:57:43.063 –> 00:57:45.683
next six to eight months probably.

00:57:46.943 –> 00:57:52.843
So come check us out. Absolutely. Ryan, I want to thank you once again for taking

00:57:52.843 –> 00:57:55.523
time out of your schedule to do this with us. I appreciate it.

00:57:55.583 –> 00:57:58.683
I’ve been wanting to do it for a while, and it’s been fun, and I think there’s

00:57:58.683 –> 00:58:03.463
some good info and pieces of nuggets in here for folks too. So thanks so much. Awesome.

00:58:04.023 –> 00:58:06.423
Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it. Yep, we’ll talk to you soon. Take care.

00:58:08.080 –> 00:58:26.445
Music.