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Hello and welcome to another episode of The Self-Initiative Project Podcast

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I’m your host Jim O’Brien hey hey welcome back today we’re going to be talking

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about gun safety and specifically locking up your guns if you’re a gun owner

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you need to have a secure way to lock up your firearms.

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And today I’ve got my buddy Tom Kubinik with Secure It Defense on with us to

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talk about all things gun safe and gun security. Tom, how are you?

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I’m doing very well. And I want to say thank you for having me on the show.

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No, thanks for doing this. I think it’s going to be a good chat and an important

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chat too. So hopefully we’ll get some good information out there.

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So before we get into our topic for today, tell the people a little bit about yourself,

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your history your background who you

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are what you do and why you do it right i’ve

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got the current primary business is designing

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and building weapon storage systems for the u.s military we do most of the armories

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the steel teams you do u.s army special forces you do the expeditionary forces

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for the marine corps and then we go into some rapid response teams as well as

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doing law enforcement and three-letter agencies with the federal government.

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We are the largest builder of military armories in the world. It sounds impressive.

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It’s a small niche market, and we own it.

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We’ve been doing that for about 20 years.

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Five years ago, we made the decision to go into the consumer market.

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And this has really driven twofold.

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The main reason we were frustrated with our own ability to store guns at home

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and what was on the market and the options that were available to consumers.

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Secondly, we had so many guys in the military coming to us saying,

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can we buy your product for our home? They’re like, well, it’s really designed for an armory.

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But we want that storage solution. So we decided we need to make products for the consumer market.

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And we launched that five years ago.

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Last year, we were in Inc. Magazine, one of the fastest growing companies in

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the country, privately held companies.

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People got it. They’re understanding it. They’re seeing how we’re different,

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why we’re different. And the company’s growing like crazy.

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That’s awesome. So I have to ask, and if I’m not mistaken, I think I read or saw,

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and Seth may have mentioned something too as a sidebar note

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you are or were a professional guitar

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player at least at some point in your past life how is

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it you came into gun safe manufacturing the

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i graduated from high school i did not go to college i was a guitar player and

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that’s all i did i played played played i played in bands all over the east

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coast yeah and this is i graduated 1980 in 1984 guitar Guitar Player Magazine

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did an article on me as one of the best unknown guitar players.

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And that’s all I did. And it was unsigned. I wasn’t with the band.

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I sent a demo tape in, and they did an article on me.

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I moved to Los Angeles, lived in Hollywood, played with a bunch of people,

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did some instructional videos, and I was working so hard at it,

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I developed tendonitis in my arms.

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It was so bad that I actually had to stop playing professionally.

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And at the time, it was tough looking back at it.

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I really hated the industry. I didn’t like, I like playing, but I hated the music, the politics.

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Yeah. So I, I took a job in sale. Just the only thing I could do was telemarketing

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computer supplies to offices.

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Yeah. And this crummy little company, yeah, we’re there for a little bit.

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I switched to another company and a year later I quit and started a business in my apartment.

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My office was a cardboard box. I had a phone and I’d get leads out of phone

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books, calling people, selling computer supplies and then buying them from wholesalers.

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And just started building a business and built it up to about 20 sales reps.

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I sold it to a partner, went off on my own, did the same thing again.

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And this was in the late 90s internet. And I started building websites and we

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started selling data security products, physical.

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We were locking up hard drives, locking up computer tape, and then locking up

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laptops. And the HIPAA laws came out.

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And my company, Greenline Data, became probably the largest company in the country,

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selling laptop storage and laptop security products.

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Again, it was a niche market. We weren’t a real big company.

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And a guy called me and he said, hey, Tom, can you store an MP5?

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I’m thinking computers. I’m like, sure.

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I go, what’s an MP5? And he goes, it’s a little machine gun. And I started laughing.

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I’m going, you know, I bet we could. And he was with the FBI. And that was in 2001.

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And I started looking at.

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Weapons storage. I started looking at the military and started talking to some

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people I knew and I realized the military was transitioning from an M16 to an M4.

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Big, long, standard rifle to a smaller, modular weapon system.

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The storage they had absolutely didn’t work.

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So we set out to design a new weapon rack for the military having never seen what they actually use.

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And we… There was a lot of research we did.

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We’re a really smaller four-person company. And we kind of BSed our way into a contract with U.S.

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Army Special Forces Command to do an assessment of all their armories and give

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them a report as to why their armories were failing.

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And it was an 18-month contract. We traveled all over the country.

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And during that contract, we had access to people that you don’t normally get.

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So we toured the facilities, watched how they work, interviewed the armors,

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and really dialed in what are the problems in weapons storage.

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During that whole process, we developed our tactical weapon storage platform,

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now called Cradle Grid. It’s a very simple two-piece system.

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And a few years later, we were the largest supplier to the U.S. military.

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They absolutely loved what we had to offer because it was so simple.

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It’s one moving part. It stores every weapon in a military armory from a small,

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like an MP5, small little submachine gun up to Mark 19s and 50-cal machine gun. Sure.

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And one of the things we always say, and it applies to civilian market as well,

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is if you’ve got a junk drawer in your kitchen, what do you keep in it?

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You keep a pair of pliers, a screwdriver, and maybe some duct tape.

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You keep the simplest tool because with those, you can solve the most problems.

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And we did that with weapons storage.

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Our system is incredibly simple.

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It’s very effective, and it properly holds firearms. We’ll talk about the consumer market.

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They’re identical. What we sell to the consumer is the exact same product we

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sell to the military. Same thing.

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It’s just in the cabinets are smaller. And you can go to our website and actually

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buy the military cabinets.

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They’re just not practical for home use size-wise. Consumer products are smaller. Yeah.

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We do not believe in big, heavy gun safes. We think it’s a real problem. It’s a mistake.

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There’s a lot of problems inherent with big gun safes. In fact, the U.S.

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Military, if I walked into an armory, they would not allow me to put a gun safe

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into a military armory because of the materials inside the safe.

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The materials inside a gun safe are quite corrosive.

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They’re outside what they would even allow in.

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So our products are smaller, modular. You don’t buy one big safe if you’ve got a big collection.

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You buy three or four small lightweight safes so you can locate the safes throughout

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your home in a manner that makes sense.

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Yeah, I thought that was the two things that I think that I like about Securit’s

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approach is the modularity, if you will,

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as well as the, it seemed to be, you know, not in a bad way,

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but it seemed to be more lightweight.

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You know, it’s, it’s, it’s not easy cranking around a 450 plus pounds safe in

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your house. And if you’re in multiple story dwelling, you know,

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what floor can you safely put that bad boy on, even if you’re in a crawl on a crawl space.

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Right. So I think there’s some, some merit certainly to shedding some of that

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weight and it being modular, if nothing else, just allowing you to have different

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configurations and then having different safes in different part of your houses.

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And I want us to talk about what you guys are doing at Secure It, certainly.

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But, you know, in general, I think people hear often that they should have a gun safe at home.

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And, you know, I’ll admit, I don’t know that my dad would be super happy about

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it, but I’ll admit, you know, when I came up, gun safes were not in people’s

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houses necessarily, certainly weren’t in mine.

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I can remember the kid, the guns were put away or hidden, if you will,

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to whatever degree they were, but we didn’t have gun safes and we didn’t keep them locked up.

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You know, gun safe for us was hiding them somewhere, right? Which is not a good approach.

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Now, all this time later, I’m guilty. I have, you know, two very large and in

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charge safes in my house at different places for different things. But.

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You know, why should a gun owner consider a safe and lock up their firearms?

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I mean, I know that sounds like a silly question. It’s kind of intentional,

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but it’s kind of important, yeah?

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It is. You know, when you look at actual statistics and data,

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I’m not going to crunch through all the numbers, but if anybody wants to,

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they’re readily available by Googling FBI crime data.

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If all guns were properly stored or properly secured in America,

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there would be a dramatically less incidence of accidental and even some,

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we’ll say on purpose, discharges of firearms.

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You look at the, what was the name, the kid in Newtown that shot all the kids.

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Yeah. He went into his mom’s house, grabbed one of her guns,

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and shot her with it immediately.

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Yeah. Had her guns been locked, she would have had a few minutes at least to defuse the kid.

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And possibly get him off that cliff.

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But the other part of this is, and this is modern storage versus old traditional

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gun safe, having a gun locked in a safe does not mean you can’t get to it in under two seconds.

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And that’s what our products, we’re all fast access. Our safes are considered,

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we call them ultralight gun safe.

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The gun safe industry, when it flourished in the 70s, that’s when the design,

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all the gun safe you sell now all have their origin back to early 70s.

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And that’s when UL came up with the classification for the gun state.

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And if you look at UL, Underwriters Laboratory, they are the ones that do all

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the certifications driven by the insurance industry per state.

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Gun safe is class RSC. It’s on a sticker right on the door.

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UL class RSC. RSC stands for residential security container.

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The word safe isn’t even used because they don’t meet the minimum performance.

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They’re big and they’re heavy because the industry believes that people will

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think big and heavy equals security.

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It does not. The gauge of steel they use is the same gauge we use.

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What we don’t do is fill ourselves space full of drywall, carpeting, adhesives.

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All those products are all corrosive. And we can go in there if you want into

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what actually is chemically going on inside a gun space.

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We strip that all out. It’s not getting you anything.

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Gun space are not fireproof. There is no fire rating.

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Actually, UL is the only company that does actual fire rates for the insurance industry.

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The fire ratings on gun space are, they’re literally smoke and mirrors.

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Most companies make up their own ratings.

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If you’re safe, it’s a Chinese import. It’s a sticker on the door. There is no testing.

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Actually, I went to China. We decided to go in the retail market.

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We were going to make a safe. I went to China and toured facilities to learn more about safe.

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Speaking with the manufacturer’s rep, I had a translator, and all the safes

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there were 60-minute safe.

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I think they’re all stacked on safe. They had 60-minute rating stickers on the door.

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So I’m looking at it. I said, well, I’d make a nicer safe than this.

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Can you make a safe that’s a 90-minute or a two-hour rating?

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And he said, absolutely. I can put any sticker on the door you want.

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I said, no, no, no. I mean, to make the face of this, yeah, we just changed

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the sticker. So then I asked, do you guys do any testing?

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And he didn’t understand the question. It took a while to translate the concept

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of what I was talking about.

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No, we make these, and the Americans tell us what sticker to put on the door.

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There is no testing, and gun safes don’t survive fires. Talk to any fire chief.

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So we eliminate all that. Our products are lightweight, easy to deal with.

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Most of our safes, our core safe, our agile safe is 100 pounds.

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Our answer, our bigger safes, about 175 to 200. You can still move them with a hand truck.

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The average American now moves every 6.11 years, I think, is the number. It keeps coming down.

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And the two things most left behind when people move is a jacuzzi and a gun

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safe. A moving company will not touch a gun safe.

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Their insurance will not allow them to move or transport a gun safe.

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You need to hire a separate company, a gun safe company, to come in and pick

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it up, package it, a separate company to ship it, and with a gun safe local

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dealer to install it. You could be into $800, $1,200 easy. Yeah, they’re not easy.

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They’re not easy. No, people don’t do it. No. So people are learning now,

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and we’re trying to get this education out, that going lighter weight does not

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change your security rating.

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And when you look at actual gun space and security, we’ve got some videos.

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I take my 1986-87 skill saw, an old circular saw, but I put a modern carbide blade in it.

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Yep. and I took a Fat Boy Junior it’s a

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big American made safe big safe and I

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cut it completely in half in a minute 18 seconds then

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I said okay if I wanted to go fast I cut a 12

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by 12 hole in the side in under 20 seconds it’s not these states are cheaply

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made they were made to meet a threat level in the 1970s the modern blades modern

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carbide blades cut through these things like butter so our product We’re not top right.

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But our products are smaller and modular, and they allow you to store guns and

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secure guns in your home where it actually makes sense.

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And we can talk about that, the FBI crime data, how it actually paints a picture

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of how you should determine your home security plan.

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So, yeah, let’s talk about traditional safes and all the hype and things,

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because, you know, I admit, and, you know, I’ve already mentioned it.

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I succumb to the bigger, beefier, and, you know, you’re only limited by how

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much money you want to spend on one, right?

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And, you know, I’m always looking for thicker gauge steel.

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So let’s talk about the major or the more what at least the sellers make us

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think are the most important features and parts of a safe.

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So talking about steel gauge thickness, that’s one that’s kind of on my mind.

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And, you know, thicker seems to be better, right?

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And so you want a thicker gauge still than a thinner gauge still.

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What’s the… It’s interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I can run you through it real quick.

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The data actually, you’re absolutely correct on perception, but reality paints

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a very different picture.

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Most gunstates are anywhere from 11 to 14 gauge steel.

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The really heavy ones will go down to a quarter plate on the door,

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and that’s plate steel. Now, a couple of things work.

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When you look at big traditional gun safes and look at the marketing brochures,

00:15:48.440 –> 00:15:52.820
when they talk about security, they focus everything on the door.

00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.740
And they’ll have some of the safes have like 15 different steel pins,

00:15:56.980 –> 00:16:02.440
corner pins, locking, all this stuff designed. And they tell you there’s no

00:16:02.440 –> 00:16:04.680
way to pry that door off. And you can’t.

00:16:04.940 –> 00:16:07.720
Those safes are completely pry-proof.

00:16:08.780 –> 00:16:11.780
A professional thief does not touch the door.

00:16:11.780 –> 00:16:16.280
That’s where the security is you simply go to the side of the cabinet and cut

00:16:16.280 –> 00:16:19.500
it open with a modern saw now a 14 gauge,

00:16:20.520 –> 00:16:25.260
base I cut it like butter but even if you go to a quarter inch plate I’m cutting

00:16:25.260 –> 00:16:29.760
that my cut rate through that quarter inch plate I’m doing one foot of cutting.

00:16:31.152 –> 00:16:35.012
15 seconds. Yeah. Because the saw blades that I’m buying are,

00:16:35.012 –> 00:16:38.692
they’re available at Home Depot and they’re designed to cut rebar,

00:16:39.032 –> 00:16:42.512
half inch thick rebar all day long at job site.

00:16:43.112 –> 00:16:46.532
Sure. And they cut, I mean, that’s a half inch of steel and they’re going right

00:16:46.532 –> 00:16:48.932
through it. Going right through it like hot butter. Or the plate. Yeah.

00:16:49.212 –> 00:16:53.992
Right. And the heaviest face. So the idea that a big heavy safe is security,

00:16:54.532 –> 00:16:59.552
no longer, a hundred years ago, big heavy space couldn’t be moved and nobody

00:16:59.552 –> 00:17:02.372
knew how to cut them open. and you need to sit there with a tortured dynamite.

00:17:02.652 –> 00:17:08.192
But nowadays, modern tools, they just cut them open. And the safe industry has

00:17:08.192 –> 00:17:11.272
not addressed this, and they don’t appear that they want to.

00:17:11.972 –> 00:17:15.692
They’re just making the same product. Same thing, because that’s what everybody’s used to.

00:17:16.652 –> 00:17:20.732
I wonder if that’s just because, you know, it’s what the consumer has come to

00:17:20.732 –> 00:17:27.172
expect. You know, it’s like it’s been so planted and ingrained in our thought

00:17:27.172 –> 00:17:30.452
processes when it comes to comparing what safe do I want?

00:17:30.552 –> 00:17:33.572
What safe do I want to get? Because, you know, and again, I’m guilty of it, too.

00:17:33.712 –> 00:17:37.132
And I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing, but I’ve got a couple

00:17:37.132 –> 00:17:38.512
of different brands of safes.

00:17:38.592 –> 00:17:42.732
I won’t mention which ones, but I’ve looked at some of the low end of one of

00:17:42.732 –> 00:17:46.352
the brands and it’s basically really thin gauge steel.

00:17:46.372 –> 00:17:50.272
It’s basically a rectangular box, right? That sits upright, obviously.

00:17:50.812 –> 00:17:57.772
And it’s got really thin, like, dare I say, car door steel, thin walls,

00:17:58.172 –> 00:18:03.592
including the door, and then the door has a key lock, which has the little finger behind.

00:18:03.752 –> 00:18:07.612
So, you know, when you lock it, the finger doesn’t allow the door to open.

00:18:07.732 –> 00:18:10.112
You know what I mean? Like they’re just that simple.

00:18:10.612 –> 00:18:14.572
So I can’t get through my head that that’s really all I need.

00:18:15.542 –> 00:18:19.602
So I think, you know, a lot of people think the same way that bigger and beefier

00:18:19.602 –> 00:18:23.962
and heavier is a better option. But it sounds like that’s not the case.

00:18:24.682 –> 00:18:29.022
It’s when you consider modern tools, it really isn’t. And the other side of

00:18:29.022 –> 00:18:31.762
it is a big, heavy safe cannot be concealed.

00:18:32.702 –> 00:18:35.662
That’s true. I’ve seen brochures for Gunsafes Company.

00:18:35.862 –> 00:18:39.842
But you’ll see where they show this beautiful safe with this incredible lettering,

00:18:39.982 –> 00:18:44.422
like Wild West looked with the feet burgundy. And it’s in a den with a stone

00:18:44.422 –> 00:18:48.902
fireplace, pool table, big TV in the corner, like a showpiece.

00:18:50.042 –> 00:18:56.562
You’re talking about a safe. It is crazy to advertise this is where my stuff is.

00:18:56.702 –> 00:18:59.462
I’m walking in that house with my little saw.

00:18:59.762 –> 00:19:05.542
Even I can go to a 20-volt DeWalt battery operated. I’m going to cut a hole in it in 30 seconds.

00:19:05.982 –> 00:19:10.602
So our products, what we promote is smaller, modular space.

00:19:10.602 –> 00:19:15.262
And then think about where you’re going to put them and you know the crime data

00:19:15.262 –> 00:19:19.742
is very simple when a thief breaks into your house he’s going to master bathroom master bedroom,

00:19:20.602 –> 00:19:23.442
home office den dining room and he’s

00:19:23.442 –> 00:19:26.622
typically he’s out of the home at that point maybe he wants his drugs out of

00:19:26.622 –> 00:19:31.542
the main bathroom then look for some valuables when you look at home storage

00:19:31.542 –> 00:19:35.642
you know we use the term decentralized storage bring up the gun safe master

00:19:35.642 –> 00:19:39.942
bedroom one gun if your wife shoots you know husband and wife one gun a piece

00:19:39.942 –> 00:19:42.462
no more in a secure, fast-access safe.

00:19:43.042 –> 00:19:47.902
Kitchen. I’ve got a big pantry. I’ve got a six-gun cabinet, fast-access in my pantry.

00:19:47.922 –> 00:19:51.822
It’s also next to a back door of the house. I can exit the home and arm myself.

00:19:52.402 –> 00:19:56.142
Front-haul closet. He’s never looked in these closets. There’s just coats in

00:19:56.142 –> 00:19:59.442
there. I’ve got a cabinet in there. I’ve got six guns. I’ve got a big collection.

00:20:00.082 –> 00:20:03.582
Well, now, Tom, that you’ve mentioned that, now everyone’s going to be looking there.

00:20:07.562 –> 00:20:11.042
They’re taking notes. The teams are moving so fast. Yeah. They’re in and out

00:20:11.042 –> 00:20:13.022
of a house in under 10 minutes.

00:20:13.142 –> 00:20:16.002
In each one of my cabinets, I’ve got,

00:20:16.479 –> 00:20:20.719
I’ve got a lot of different guns, but there’s also, I’ve got a pump shotgun

00:20:20.719 –> 00:20:24.499
in magazine, nothing in the tube, nothing in magazine.

00:20:24.579 –> 00:20:27.299
I’ve got an AR-15 magazine in, ready to roll.

00:20:27.579 –> 00:20:31.799
Those are my two defensive, and each location, the safest room in your house

00:20:31.799 –> 00:20:33.939
to store valuables and guns and everything.

00:20:34.139 –> 00:20:38.219
If you have a guest bedroom, have a bed in it with a nightstand,

00:20:38.439 –> 00:20:42.159
bed is made, a piece of generic art in the wall, and nothing else in the room.

00:20:42.219 –> 00:20:43.699
A thief opens the door, guest room.

00:20:43.939 –> 00:20:47.659
He walks out. He doesn’t spend any time in there. in the closet in that room,

00:20:47.739 –> 00:20:50.079
in our guest room, I’ve got an agile quad system.

00:20:50.219 –> 00:20:55.079
I’ve got 24 rifles in that room. It’s also at the end of a hallway in my house.

00:20:55.319 –> 00:20:59.419
So in a home invasion, you get to that room and I’ve got a hallway.

00:20:59.959 –> 00:21:02.219
Nobody’s, you know, we’re armed, nobody’s going to get to it. Yeah.

00:21:03.039 –> 00:21:06.879
Just kind of walking through some of these other pieces, parts that get a lot of hype.

00:21:07.119 –> 00:21:11.499
So, and I think this one’s pretty straightforward. Hinges is one that I’ve heard.

00:21:11.739 –> 00:21:17.259
And more recently I’ve read it’s actually better to have the hinges outside the door than inside.

00:21:17.479 –> 00:21:19.879
There’s a lot of advantages to having it outside.

00:21:20.179 –> 00:21:24.339
But in the past, I’ve heard, you know, you want to keep those hinges inside the door.

00:21:24.779 –> 00:21:26.759
What’s all the hubbub about that?

00:21:27.459 –> 00:21:31.439
I, you know what? It doesn’t matter to me because I’m ignoring the door. I’m a thief.

00:21:31.859 –> 00:21:34.979
Yep. I’m ignoring the door. I’m ignoring the hinges are thick.

00:21:35.319 –> 00:21:38.019
I’m not going to deal with those. Again, I’m going to cut open the back or I’m

00:21:38.019 –> 00:21:39.239
going to cut open the side of the safe.

00:21:39.759 –> 00:21:42.899
Even the biggest, heaviest gun safe, if you lean on it, you can twist it.

00:21:42.899 –> 00:21:45.399
You can turn it, you know, 45 degrees and get to the side.

00:21:45.919 –> 00:21:50.479
We’ve done it in our office, demonstrated with a big, big heavy safe that you

00:21:50.479 –> 00:21:52.619
can just lean on hard and rock it. You can slide them.

00:21:53.039 –> 00:21:57.299
So, yeah, we ignore it. We have products with our internal. We have products

00:21:57.299 –> 00:22:00.599
that are external. We design our hinges for functionality.

00:22:01.119 –> 00:22:04.179
You know, as long as if you’ve got a long, like a piano hinge,

00:22:04.299 –> 00:22:07.319
you want to make sure it’s pinned so you can’t drive the center pin out.

00:22:07.399 –> 00:22:10.739
We have some external hinges, which are massive welded hinges.

00:22:10.739 –> 00:22:15.199
And truly, we use those because they look so good.

00:22:15.379 –> 00:22:17.439
We could have used a simpler hinge.

00:22:19.284 –> 00:22:28.484
It’s a beefy, beefy, heavy hinge, and it just screams of, like, cool guy, mechanical.

00:22:28.704 –> 00:22:33.044
It’s a neat product. That’s really why we chose it, but I don’t look at hinges

00:22:33.044 –> 00:22:37.064
other than, you know, if you’ve got really flimsy hinges, the door could—that’s

00:22:37.064 –> 00:22:41.344
not a security issue. That’s your door breaking over time if the hinges are bad.

00:22:42.164 –> 00:22:48.204
I get more worried about depth of the safe than the hinge. Depth of the safe is a real problem. Yeah.

00:22:48.944 –> 00:22:53.464
Another big one that is talked about a lot, I know, with traditional safes is

00:22:53.464 –> 00:22:55.524
the deadbolts or the pins, I think.

00:22:55.684 –> 00:23:00.644
I’m not sure officially, but, you know, a lot of times the diameter of those

00:23:00.644 –> 00:23:05.284
deadbolts or pins are discussed. And then how many deadbolts are around the

00:23:05.284 –> 00:23:06.544
circumference of the door?

00:23:06.764 –> 00:23:09.984
And, you know, five is better than two or whatever.

00:23:10.904 –> 00:23:15.404
What’s the deal with the deadbolts? You know, it’s interesting.

00:23:16.044 –> 00:23:20.124
Our agile system has four, but they’re hardened steel.

00:23:20.524 –> 00:23:24.144
Most of the big safes don’t have hardened steel pins. They’re just metal pins.

00:23:24.824 –> 00:23:25.884
Aren’t some of them hollow?

00:23:26.784 –> 00:23:31.204
Most of them are hollow. But when you’re looking at shear load on the pins,

00:23:32.184 –> 00:23:35.664
the safe industry uses that to show beastiness and all.

00:23:35.764 –> 00:23:38.064
But the actual, when you look at the shear load, if you’re actually trying to

00:23:38.064 –> 00:23:40.064
pry against those pins, those pins.

00:23:40.866 –> 00:23:44.926
You don’t need that much. The sheer load on metal like that is incredible.

00:23:45.386 –> 00:23:51.166
And if the pins actuate properly, having huge ones versus smaller ones doesn’t

00:23:51.166 –> 00:23:53.726
make that big of a difference. The sheer is so strong.

00:23:54.306 –> 00:23:57.346
Typically, they’re talking about pry access. They’re trying to block the pry

00:23:57.346 –> 00:24:01.226
access. When they pry into a safe, they’re bending the side of the safe ultimately.

00:24:01.726 –> 00:24:05.806
Again, I’m a thief. I ignore the door. Not going through the door.

00:24:05.966 –> 00:24:06.686
That’s what the security is.

00:24:06.966 –> 00:24:10.986
Again, I’m going back to the side of the safe with a saw. If you want a truly

00:24:10.986 –> 00:24:16.326
secure heavy safe, you need a double-walled safe filled with concrete.

00:24:16.606 –> 00:24:19.966
We designed and made one and sold it briefly.

00:24:20.166 –> 00:24:23.126
We actually gave the design and sold to another distributor.

00:24:23.126 –> 00:24:25.306
It was too heavy for us. We didn’t want to deal with it.

00:24:25.366 –> 00:24:28.366
We called it the true safe, and this thing was a tank.

00:24:28.986 –> 00:24:33.866
And the steel, the cement composite destroys the steel blade,

00:24:33.886 –> 00:24:37.046
and a cement blade gets destroyed by the steel. By the steel,

00:24:37.186 –> 00:24:40.646
yeah. It really wasn’t secure, and it was quite fire-resistant.

00:24:40.786 –> 00:24:47.106
We ran an hour 20 minutes in an oven at 1,400 degrees. We didn’t do a certification.

00:24:47.546 –> 00:24:51.486
We actually sent an Excel spreadsheet with the actual fire data for the safe.

00:24:52.186 –> 00:24:55.786
But the drywall steel face, it doesn’t matter what they do with the door.

00:24:56.086 –> 00:24:59.966
The other problem with the door when they do the pins and hinges and all that

00:24:59.966 –> 00:25:04.726
is the weight of the door is going up, and those doors become very, very heavy.

00:25:04.726 –> 00:25:09.206
But when the safe door swings open, if the safe is empty, like in a store,

00:25:09.506 –> 00:25:11.466
it becomes a dangerous tip hazard.

00:25:11.626 –> 00:25:15.346
Yeah, it does. That’s one of the reasons they make gun safes so deep.

00:25:15.546 –> 00:25:19.306
And depth in gun storage works against you.

00:25:19.546 –> 00:25:23.586
In fact, all of our safes are 15 inches deep. Yeah, you guys are shallow by

00:25:23.586 –> 00:25:24.426
comparison. Never saw a gun in rows.

00:25:25.167 –> 00:25:28.387
Yeah, our safes are, when you open the safe, like my Agile 12,

00:25:28.587 –> 00:25:32.087
12-gun safe, the double door, again, it’s designed to fit in a closet.

00:25:32.247 –> 00:25:37.127
You open both doors, 12 rifles, one arm, one gun. You open the door with one

00:25:37.127 –> 00:25:40.187
hand, you grab a rifle with the other hand, you close the door.

00:25:40.367 –> 00:25:41.807
You’re never laying guns on

00:25:41.807 –> 00:25:45.527
the ground. You’re never digging through guns to get to the one you want.

00:25:46.607 –> 00:25:52.587
I take it back to a Navy SEAL or a U.S. military sniper goes into combat.

00:25:53.147 –> 00:25:56.647
Gets his rifle, goes in. He’s got one shot to make.

00:25:57.047 –> 00:26:01.427
That optic has to be zeroed. The rifle has to perform perfectly.

00:26:01.767 –> 00:26:06.507
They use our system and our cradle grid system because the rifle will perform

00:26:06.507 –> 00:26:09.907
exactly as it did when you placed it into the storage container.

00:26:10.107 –> 00:26:15.187
Yeah, because it doesn’t have 12 other rifles wrapped around it in a circle banging up against it.

00:26:15.307 –> 00:26:19.207
It’s linear across the back of the box, right? Or the front of the box,

00:26:19.267 –> 00:26:20.387
however you want to look at that. Yeah.

00:26:21.487 –> 00:26:26.507
I had a conversation with two of the, one was sales, one was product development

00:26:26.507 –> 00:26:27.867
for a U.S. safe manufacturer.

00:26:28.087 –> 00:26:31.507
This was when we first were going into it. We looked at partnering safe manufacturers,

00:26:31.507 –> 00:26:33.267
and I spoke with these two, John.

00:26:33.367 –> 00:26:35.927
We had a great conversation. I asked them about the interior of the safe,

00:26:36.107 –> 00:26:37.487
and they were very candid.

00:26:38.127 –> 00:26:42.967
And the interior of the safe, of like a big, heavy gun safe,

00:26:43.147 –> 00:26:47.847
is designed to look good empty because that’s how the safes are sold.

00:26:47.847 –> 00:26:50.507
When you go to a safe distributor, all the safes are empty.

00:26:50.707 –> 00:26:54.107
They light them up and they walk you through showing you the features and benefits

00:26:54.107 –> 00:26:56.427
and interiors. And they’re beautiful empty.

00:26:57.147 –> 00:27:01.307
Our safes are designed to look good full of guns. At one point,

00:27:01.407 –> 00:27:05.227
we sold products through Bass Pro and Academy, and we didn’t do well.

00:27:05.347 –> 00:27:09.727
We sold more on their websites than in their stores because side by side,

00:27:09.887 –> 00:27:15.207
when my safes are empty, it doesn’t look like much. Whereas a gun safe looks pretty impressive.

00:27:15.807 –> 00:27:20.467
However, when you actually go to put guns in it, gun space is extremely limiting.

00:27:20.827 –> 00:27:25.507
You know, if you’ve got multiple height guns, they’re not going to fit.

00:27:25.727 –> 00:27:31.027
You know, the capacity of 30 gun safe will hold the bottom left gun. Yeah, don’t I know it.

00:27:31.907 –> 00:27:36.607
Well, I mean, I bought big safes for the three guns that I have.

00:27:36.727 –> 00:27:40.507
I only have three, but I’ve heard bad things about, you know,

00:27:40.707 –> 00:27:45.087
they actually don’t hold the number of guns they’re specified to hold. It’s not even close.

00:27:46.147 –> 00:27:49.267
And again, I asked, speaking with one of the U.S.

00:27:49.627 –> 00:27:51.707
Manufacturers, I asked them about capacity because they told me,

00:27:51.787 –> 00:27:56.947
I said, Tom, your system in our state only holds 12 guns. My response was,

00:27:57.575 –> 00:28:01.375
Because that’s what your safe holds. That’s what it holds. Yeah, it really does.

00:28:01.655 –> 00:28:05.155
He said, no, that’s a 40-gun safe.

00:28:05.435 –> 00:28:10.435
He looks like I’m crazy. I go, we shot a video. This safe doesn’t hold 40 guns. Good luck. Yeah.

00:28:11.315 –> 00:28:14.875
And I said, capacity, I said, this is a complete BS. And he said,

00:28:15.495 –> 00:28:19.735
almost in direct court, he goes, well, capacity, that’s our industry’s little white lie.

00:28:19.955 –> 00:28:24.375
And we all do it. We all know that if one guy says 30 and we say 32,

00:28:24.375 –> 00:28:25.655
we’re going to tell a few more states.

00:28:25.795 –> 00:28:31.215
Yep. But right there, I’m just like, you guys, they’re out of touch with consumers.

00:28:32.355 –> 00:28:36.395
There’s a couple more points that I want to talk through with you before we

00:28:36.395 –> 00:28:39.635
talk more about your system and what you guys are doing, because we’re already

00:28:39.635 –> 00:28:43.495
covering a lot of this just in the conversation we’re having about typical safes.

00:28:43.595 –> 00:28:48.375
And, you know, the thing that I’m already taking away is the selling point of

00:28:48.375 –> 00:28:50.035
a traditional safe is the door.

00:28:50.435 –> 00:28:54.715
And thieves, at least, that know what they’re doing, really don’t even care

00:28:54.715 –> 00:28:59.195
about the door. But with that being said, let’s talk about locks.

00:28:59.455 –> 00:29:02.275
My dad and I have had this conversation in the past, you know,

00:29:02.335 –> 00:29:07.535
what’s better, a traditional combo lock, you know, with the roller on the front or the push button.

00:29:07.675 –> 00:29:10.955
And then when it comes to the electronic push buttons, you know,

00:29:11.015 –> 00:29:14.855
is a UL rated push button really all that important?

00:29:14.995 –> 00:29:18.495
I mean, a lot of these safes, to your point, are coming out of China and we

00:29:18.495 –> 00:29:23.035
know kind of like what those electronics are at least some of the time. Does it really matter?

00:29:23.255 –> 00:29:25.555
But what’s better or is that a concern?

00:29:25.995 –> 00:29:29.075
When you look at locking, it depends on the function of the unit you’re buying.

00:29:29.215 –> 00:29:34.955
Like if it’s a mass storage of guns that you don’t care about ever getting to,

00:29:35.135 –> 00:29:38.015
a simple dial combination is cheap and they work.

00:29:38.475 –> 00:29:41.655
If you’re looking at, okay, I want to get to a gun for home defense.

00:29:41.875 –> 00:29:44.855
You look at the system. Everything that we make is fast access.

00:29:44.855 –> 00:29:49.975
If you’ve got firearms in there, we want you, if you’re the authorized user,

00:29:50.595 –> 00:29:51.955
to have two-second access.

00:29:52.315 –> 00:29:54.435
We use push-button electronic lock.

00:29:55.064 –> 00:29:59.784
And with our fast box that goes under your bed, we tell everybody,

00:29:59.864 –> 00:30:02.064
you mount it under your bed, a bolster bed frame.

00:30:02.404 –> 00:30:05.844
Every night you go to bed for the first 30 days, turn the light off,

00:30:06.004 –> 00:30:09.804
reach down in the dark, just do the combination by memory, by touch. You’ll figure it out.

00:30:09.964 –> 00:30:12.804
Yeah. And open the tape and then close it and do it.

00:30:13.024 –> 00:30:16.704
And what you’re doing, you’re just like you practice at the range. Proprioception.

00:30:18.124 –> 00:30:23.244
Right. So like my fast box next to my bed in total darkness and in total silence,

00:30:23.244 –> 00:30:28.584
I can open it, remove AR-15, and be there behind my bed at the door in,

00:30:28.704 –> 00:30:30.824
I’m going to say at the most, two and a half seconds.

00:30:31.224 –> 00:30:35.584
You become so good at it. And all of our products are like that.

00:30:35.724 –> 00:30:38.424
What we don’t like is fingerprint locks.

00:30:38.584 –> 00:30:43.204
I don’t recommend those for anybody, for any situation other than novelty.

00:30:43.644 –> 00:30:47.244
The fail rate on fingerprint readers is so bad.

00:30:47.584 –> 00:30:50.404
And if you’ve ever owned, we’ve got several states from other people in our

00:30:50.404 –> 00:30:53.304
that we play with to use. And if your hands are wet, they won’t open.

00:30:53.384 –> 00:30:54.764
If your hands are dirty, they won’t open.

00:30:55.044 –> 00:30:59.164
If you’ve got a cut on your finger, you’re being, I mean, it won’t open.

00:31:00.604 –> 00:31:03.504
If you’re buying a, if you’re storing a firearm for home defense,

00:31:03.684 –> 00:31:07.424
for self-defense, that’s what we, I call it never fail equipment.

00:31:08.564 –> 00:31:13.604
So if I were to translate, if I were to translate what I think I hear you’re

00:31:13.604 –> 00:31:16.604
saying, are you saying biometric is a no-no in general?

00:31:16.964 –> 00:31:21.004
Yeah, we wouldn’t touch it. The military wouldn’t touch it.

00:31:21.664 –> 00:31:31.264
It just doesn’t it’s a fizzy thing it’s a bright shiny thing it’s sexy it was new technology.

00:31:32.044 –> 00:31:36.584
And people started using it because it was kind of cool but I think the industry

00:31:36.584 –> 00:31:41.044
is kind of moving away from that a little bit people carry it but there’s no

00:31:41.044 –> 00:31:44.704
hype around it because everybody has one knows sometimes you gotta swipe your

00:31:44.704 –> 00:31:46.924
finger there 20 times to get the darn thing to open,

00:31:47.664 –> 00:31:51.424
it’s a never fail piece of equipment If a guy’s shooting at you,

00:31:51.624 –> 00:31:53.164
you can’t be nuts and around with it.

00:31:53.484 –> 00:31:57.584
Some of the other technology, RFID is a newer technology. That’s where you have

00:31:57.584 –> 00:32:00.144
the little button tag, the little wristband or something.

00:32:00.584 –> 00:32:05.964
And they work fine. They’re very fast. The challenge with those is if your safe

00:32:05.964 –> 00:32:10.204
comes with two key fobs, four little tags, and a wristband,

00:32:10.444 –> 00:32:15.824
you now have seven items that you’ve got to secure because those items in the

00:32:15.824 –> 00:32:17.184
wrong hand grant access.

00:32:17.930 –> 00:32:21.430
To a safe. If you’ve got Hornaday has that in one of their safes,

00:32:21.530 –> 00:32:26.030
anybody that has the safe, he’s got the little tag, paint them, do something with them.

00:32:26.470 –> 00:32:29.770
The tag says Hornaday Rapid Safe on it.

00:32:29.970 –> 00:32:32.890
So if you’ve got keys hanging in your house, the thief breaks in,

00:32:33.010 –> 00:32:37.730
and they see this tag on your car keys, they now have the lock to the safe,

00:32:37.890 –> 00:32:40.570
and they know you have a Hornaday safe.

00:32:40.830 –> 00:32:43.770
All they’ve got to do is go looking for it, and they can open it.

00:32:44.050 –> 00:32:48.650
So if you’re going to use that technology, you want to make sure the little tag are opaque.

00:32:48.850 –> 00:32:53.030
There’s nothing on them. All it looks like is a disc and no thief would ever

00:32:53.030 –> 00:32:54.510
think that there’s something there.

00:32:54.930 –> 00:32:56.670
Yeah, that’s a really good tip.

00:32:57.370 –> 00:33:01.470
Paint your stuff so you don’t know what it is. I’m looking at pure security here.

00:33:01.810 –> 00:33:06.550
I’ve built RFID systems for the military where they’re using it to actually

00:33:06.550 –> 00:33:09.510
pair up guns to soldiers for asset tracking.

00:33:09.790 –> 00:33:13.290
That’s what the technology was developed for. In the case of gun saves,

00:33:13.390 –> 00:33:17.870
they’re just using it to fire off a lock. And the military got into it and they

00:33:17.870 –> 00:33:22.130
kind of moved away from it for all the reasons I talked about the different,

00:33:22.370 –> 00:33:24.190
the complexity of it. Sure.

00:33:25.090 –> 00:33:33.710
The last point, which we’ve already talked about quite a bit is the fire rating,

00:33:33.990 –> 00:33:35.790
but also the water resistance.

00:33:36.010 –> 00:33:38.970
You know, you see that a lot. And then they talk about how the foam,

00:33:38.970 –> 00:33:45.030
you know, wraps around the door when it gets hot or wet. I don’t know how all

00:33:45.030 –> 00:33:50.470
that works, but is there any merit to a safe being water-resistant or waterproof?

00:33:51.070 –> 00:33:56.330
The only reason for water-resistant would be in a pure big structure fire,

00:33:56.470 –> 00:34:00.030
they’ve got so much water going into this house that your basement floods.

00:34:00.510 –> 00:34:03.150
And now your safe that’s in your basement, the big heavy safe,

00:34:03.190 –> 00:34:06.410
is sitting in three feet of water and water’s getting into it.

00:34:06.590 –> 00:34:11.410
And I don’t know. I’ve never seen a scenario where that was.

00:34:11.530 –> 00:34:13.770
I’m sure it’s probably happened. I think it’s pretty rare.

00:34:13.990 –> 00:34:18.590
When you actually look at fire ratings, I tell anybody who’s really concerned,

00:34:18.970 –> 00:34:22.110
call your fire department, give me your address, and they’re going to tell you

00:34:22.110 –> 00:34:26.570
what their response time is because they know it, because insurance companies require them to know.

00:34:26.650 –> 00:34:29.410
That’s what insurance companies rate fire insurance policies.

00:34:29.410 –> 00:34:36.270
And if you live in, I live in a small town with a volunteer firefighting force, 11 minutes to my house.

00:34:36.470 –> 00:34:40.770
If you live in a city with a professional force, response time is three to five minutes.

00:34:41.230 –> 00:34:44.810
If you look at actual home fire, the rate of home fires is declining.

00:34:44.950 –> 00:34:47.050
It’s been declining for the last 200 years.

00:34:47.930 –> 00:34:55.230
90% of all home fires occur in the kitchen and are contained within a pot or within the oven. Yeah.

00:34:55.850 –> 00:35:01.970
And when you look at actual damage, fire damage in homes, almost all of it is smoke damage.

00:35:02.170 –> 00:35:06.670
Actual heat damage is very rare. When it does occur, it’s very isolated.

00:35:06.810 –> 00:35:08.190
Typically, the fire is out very quickly.

00:35:08.910 –> 00:35:14.330
So the actual rift of your house burning to the ground is very, very low.

00:35:14.510 –> 00:35:18.370
Yeah, it is. Now, when you look at where that did happen and you can Google

00:35:18.370 –> 00:35:21.230
this California wildfires gun face,

00:35:21.410 –> 00:35:25.090
you Google that there’s several articles and those fires went to California

00:35:25.090 –> 00:35:29.850
several years ago about gun collections all being gone because there’s no instance

00:35:29.850 –> 00:35:35.090
that I saw anywhere in California where a state survived the fire because they don’t.

00:35:35.810 –> 00:35:40.270
A fire rating is based on a static. They put a safe in an oven,

00:35:40.310 –> 00:35:44.490
and they bring the oven up to 1,200 degrees, and it sits there, and it cooks.

00:35:44.870 –> 00:35:47.850
Well, if you’re a baker, and you use a convection oven, you know,

00:35:47.890 –> 00:35:49.650
it cuts your baking time down dramatically.

00:35:49.990 –> 00:35:55.330
In a true structure fire, roaring fire, the air is moving in that home.

00:35:55.450 –> 00:35:58.150
It’s going to be whirling at 60, 70 miles an hour.

00:35:58.610 –> 00:36:02.130
It’s a blast furnace. Yeah. And that’s safe, and it’s static,

00:36:02.330 –> 00:36:07.230
non-moving. That’s a lot different. It transfers very slowly in air when it’s not moving.

00:36:07.650 –> 00:36:12.090
It’s like, you know, if you go out in the cold, it’s zero, and there’s no wind at all.

00:36:12.430 –> 00:36:16.050
You’re okay. The wind’s blowing at 60 miles an hour. You’re going to freeze

00:36:16.050 –> 00:36:18.770
to death in minutes. It’s the same thing with heat.

00:36:19.150 –> 00:36:24.470
And it cooks these safes off literally in 10 minutes. I mean, it’s not even close.

00:36:25.250 –> 00:36:29.870
So the whole fire rating on safe is, it is made up.

00:36:30.250 –> 00:36:35.950
And UL does not issue a fire rating. I don’t know of a gun safe sold in America

00:36:35.950 –> 00:36:38.510
that has an actual UL fire rating.

00:36:38.750 –> 00:36:44.170
Yeah. I’ve never seen one. You can buy a TL-rated fire safe that could hold

00:36:44.170 –> 00:36:46.270
a gun, but it’s not sold to the fire safe.

00:36:46.510 –> 00:36:49.190
It’s about $12,000. They’re sold to jewelry stores.

00:36:49.630 –> 00:36:53.170
And they are true fire rated safe. And they’re very heavy. Yeah.

00:36:53.470 –> 00:36:54.810
It’s just not practical.

00:36:55.250 –> 00:37:00.150
That’s the bottom line for the residential consumer. It’s not practical.

00:37:00.890 –> 00:37:03.810
Yeah the best the best data and it was on the

00:37:03.810 –> 00:37:06.610
truth about guns one of the one of the sites that was a great

00:37:06.610 –> 00:37:09.590
article and they did a lot of research and it

00:37:09.590 –> 00:37:13.790
came to the conclusion whether your gun your guns survive a fire if they’re

00:37:13.790 –> 00:37:21.410
in a fire safe a steel box a wood case or a glass cabinet has more to do with

00:37:21.410 –> 00:37:26.710
the nuance of how the fire burns yeah it’s all about the fire to which at the store.

00:37:26.990 –> 00:37:32.650
Yeah, exactly. And they’re so chaotic and they’re so random that, I mean…

00:37:33.230 –> 00:37:35.610
Nothing laboratory about it, right? People really shouldn’t worth cheaper to

00:37:35.610 –> 00:37:36.870
buy insurance. Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:37.564 –> 00:37:41.384
So, you know, we’ve talked about a lot of stuff and certainly the,

00:37:41.384 –> 00:37:45.784
you know, the benefits of what you guys are doing at SecureIt.

00:37:45.924 –> 00:37:50.124
But it sounds like if I were to summarize what we’ve talked about is that,

00:37:50.244 –> 00:37:56.504
you know, the safe as we know it today, the typical gun safe as we know it today is kind of overhyped.

00:37:56.744 –> 00:38:03.204
And most of the hype seems to be focused around the door because that’s the primary entry.

00:38:04.264 –> 00:38:08.884
So the marketeers, so to speak, have figured out that the consumer’s interested

00:38:08.884 –> 00:38:10.564
with what’s going on with the door.

00:38:10.704 –> 00:38:13.624
But to your point, you can just cut right in the side of that thing and take

00:38:13.624 –> 00:38:16.364
what you want, if you know what you’re doing and know that about safes.

00:38:16.464 –> 00:38:19.404
And after this podcast, folks will know what to do.

00:38:19.564 –> 00:38:27.604
But the takeaway there is too, is that yes, big, heavy safes,

00:38:27.744 –> 00:38:32.024
like you mentioned, the double walled with the composite concrete poured in there.

00:38:32.284 –> 00:38:37.684
Those types of safes have their place, but they’re probably going to be cost

00:38:37.684 –> 00:38:40.324
prohibitive for the average consumer.

00:38:40.684 –> 00:38:46.184
And the weight, you know, means that you probably should have had your house

00:38:46.184 –> 00:38:48.624
built around the thing to start with.

00:38:48.944 –> 00:38:53.944
So there’s some merit to more lightweight modular systems, which is where secure

00:38:53.944 –> 00:38:57.284
at defense comes into play. Yeah.

00:38:58.004 –> 00:39:02.824
I mean, lightweight is just lighter, faster, and the other piece is when you

00:39:02.824 –> 00:39:05.064
look at a gun safe, it’s static.

00:39:05.284 –> 00:39:10.724
It is a little thing of wood covered in leather with little Ws with the barrels set up.

00:39:11.184 –> 00:39:17.124
Our system also integrates gear and guns. The military went through this in 2000.

00:39:17.484 –> 00:39:20.964
During the Gulf War, the consumer market’s been going through it,

00:39:21.044 –> 00:39:23.724
the integration of gear with firearms.

00:39:23.824 –> 00:39:25.864
If you’re building an AR-15, you’re going to have a lot of parts.

00:39:26.104 –> 00:39:29.184
You’ve got optics. You’ve got attachments. There’s so much.

00:39:30.281 –> 00:39:35.561
Comes with and around firearms now, our solution not just holds the gun,

00:39:35.681 –> 00:39:39.521
but also allows you to store a wide variety of gear.

00:39:39.621 –> 00:39:42.481
We call it three-dimensional storage in the military.

00:39:42.761 –> 00:39:48.961
And it’s a very simple collection of bins and trays and just boxes that all

00:39:48.961 –> 00:39:54.721
snap into the rack that allow you to store just almost anything in these cabinets.

00:39:54.921 –> 00:39:59.221
And those bins and trays, We sell them. You can buy them at Home Depot, not proprietary.

00:39:59.881 –> 00:40:02.681
Our system is extremely flexible.

00:40:04.041 –> 00:40:08.281
You can buy a gun safe. With our system, you’re buying a tool that allows you

00:40:08.281 –> 00:40:12.781
to design the safe that you need, allows you to build the interior out to meet

00:40:12.781 –> 00:40:14.821
your needs and change it at any time.

00:40:14.821 –> 00:40:19.201
Yeah, I think that’s the great thing about, I do think that is the great thing

00:40:19.201 –> 00:40:23.941
about your system is the modularity and the flexibility that that modularity

00:40:23.941 –> 00:40:28.201
provides military, but consumers as well, right?

00:40:28.321 –> 00:40:31.201
Because speaking firsthand, right?

00:40:31.321 –> 00:40:36.181
Like I’ve got a lot of different things that I need to get in there and I want

00:40:36.181 –> 00:40:39.841
to be able to store this and that and configure it the way I want it and have

00:40:39.841 –> 00:40:41.441
it ready to go the way I want it.

00:40:41.541 –> 00:40:44.261
And so that modularity allows me to do that, right?

00:40:45.101 –> 00:40:48.101
Yeah i mean if you’re going to spend a thousand two thousand twelve

00:40:48.101 –> 00:40:51.501
hundred dollars on something like that why wouldn’t

00:40:51.501 –> 00:40:54.421
you want flexibility why i mean it’s like people buy car

00:40:54.421 –> 00:40:57.261
you know you’re buying 1960s cars the seats aren’t

00:40:57.261 –> 00:41:00.201
adjustable they don’t do money you get what you get roll

00:41:00.201 –> 00:41:03.181
up yeah suv the seats fold down

00:41:03.181 –> 00:41:06.221
and hold it’s so flexible so modular

00:41:06.221 –> 00:41:09.121
you can do so much with them you know the gun safe

00:41:09.121 –> 00:41:12.841
industry hasn’t changed since 1975 yeah

00:41:12.841 –> 00:41:15.561
and they need to and we’re

00:41:15.561 –> 00:41:19.601
hoping that we can drive some drive some change within the industry because

00:41:19.601 –> 00:41:23.401
it’s really it’s gotten bad you know the last piece that we haven’t talked about

00:41:23.401 –> 00:41:28.421
is corrosion and yeah i wanted to talk to you about i had a question about that

00:41:28.421 –> 00:41:34.261
too yeah yeah the materials used in a gun safe in the construction of a gun safe.

00:41:35.181 –> 00:41:38.281
A lot of them are banned from use in museums.

00:41:38.281 –> 00:41:44.201
We build a lot of systems for museums, archival storage of vintage and very old relic firearms.

00:41:44.881 –> 00:41:47.741
A lot of the materials used inside a gun safe are banned from use.

00:41:47.841 –> 00:41:51.561
They’re banned from use in military armory. I’ll walk you real quick to science.

00:41:52.541 –> 00:41:57.361
It’s interesting. It’s pretty simple. Drywall is gypsum. It’s mined.

00:41:57.461 –> 00:42:00.421
It’s full of pyrite that naturally occurs in gypsum.

00:42:00.581 –> 00:42:05.741
It’s always there. Chinese drywall has more pyrite than the U.S., but it’s always there.

00:42:06.221 –> 00:42:11.201
Pyrite is metallic. It’s covered in a bacteria called barooxidin.

00:42:12.061 –> 00:42:15.121
Barooxidin bacteria live on pyrite, and they eat it.

00:42:15.815 –> 00:42:21.255
When they eat the pyrite, they release sulfurous and sulfuric acids and some salt.

00:42:21.755 –> 00:42:26.755
That’s basically the byproduct of them eating that. That works really well with gunmetal, doesn’t it?

00:42:27.275 –> 00:42:32.135
They are highly corrosive. Additionally, they use a rubberized adhesive that

00:42:32.135 –> 00:42:33.275
holds the carpeting on it.

00:42:33.375 –> 00:42:36.735
It’s an adhesive that stays tacky, stays soft, so it doesn’t get brittle,

00:42:36.775 –> 00:42:39.735
so the carpet doesn’t feel back over the years.

00:42:40.395 –> 00:42:45.555
It’s full of formaldehyde to keep it from molding. Formaldehyde is highly corrosive.

00:42:45.555 –> 00:42:52.875
Now, they sell millions of dollars of product every year to keep corrosion out of gun space.

00:42:52.995 –> 00:42:55.415
There’s all these different things to stop corrosion.

00:42:55.895 –> 00:43:00.395
If you’ve got a wooden, like my grandfather had a glass case in his den.

00:43:00.575 –> 00:43:04.375
He had rifles and there were old shotguns in there. It’s 50 years. Nothing corroded.

00:43:04.795 –> 00:43:08.915
If a gun is properly cleaned, properly cared for, it’s not going to corrode.

00:43:09.295 –> 00:43:12.655
The insides of these space, though, are, you know, we call it the toxic box.

00:43:12.655 –> 00:43:16.775
And I’ll tell people, if you’re at a store that sells gun safes and a safe hasn’t

00:43:16.775 –> 00:43:19.915
been opened in a little while, have them open it or open the door.

00:43:20.015 –> 00:43:23.795
Just put your, as it opens, put your nose in there. You’ll smell a hint of sulfur.

00:43:24.455 –> 00:43:27.655
That is the process happening. If you’ve got a brand new safe in your house,

00:43:28.075 –> 00:43:30.675
keep it closed for a week and a half. Open it up and smell.

00:43:31.015 –> 00:43:34.835
You’re going to smell a little bit of sulfur. That’s sulfuric, sulfuric acid.

00:43:35.015 –> 00:43:39.595
I would recommend if you’ve got a new safe, open that safe every two or three days and tear it out.

00:43:39.715 –> 00:43:44.335
Let it burn. Let it burn out, yeah. Over the course of three to four years,

00:43:44.495 –> 00:43:47.115
that dissipates, but it never goes away.

00:43:47.715 –> 00:43:51.255
Bacteria converting pyrite can go on for 30 years.

00:43:52.195 –> 00:43:56.575
Yeah. And the bacteria also, at some point, can actually attack the metal.

00:43:56.715 –> 00:44:00.955
That same ferro-oxidant bacteria is used in the mining industry to strip metal

00:44:00.955 –> 00:44:04.295
from low-grade ore. Yeah. It’s part of the mining process.

00:44:04.635 –> 00:44:07.055
I think you—go ahead, sorry.

00:44:07.795 –> 00:44:10.355
The industry, there’s other products out there.

00:44:11.255 –> 00:44:15.095
You don’t need to use this stuff, but they do because it’s cheap.

00:44:15.295 –> 00:44:18.015
I was going to say it’s probably the cheapest and most convenient.

00:44:18.935 –> 00:44:26.475
They are of the mindset that Americans want the cheapest gun safe they can get that looks cool.

00:44:28.055 –> 00:44:32.455
And we’re telling them, no, they don’t. They want something that actually works.

00:44:32.595 –> 00:44:36.315
And our sales numbers support that we’re correct on that.

00:44:36.495 –> 00:44:39.735
People want flexibility. yeah people want to buy a

00:44:39.735 –> 00:44:42.595
product that they opened up when they set it up they can

00:44:42.595 –> 00:44:45.595
configure it to hold their specific guns in a

00:44:45.595 –> 00:44:48.575
manner where their scopes are free and clear nothing is hitting everything

00:44:48.575 –> 00:44:51.275
works perfectly you can remove and place a gun in the

00:44:51.275 –> 00:44:55.395
safe in a half a second yeah and then if you buy another rifle if you change

00:44:55.395 –> 00:45:00.575
things around you go in no tools required and just reconfigure it yeah if flexibility

00:45:00.575 –> 00:45:04.035
is what people want now with it yeah and i think you know what you guys are

00:45:04.035 –> 00:45:10.155
doing with your lighter weight approach and your modularity makes a lot of sense.

00:45:10.375 –> 00:45:14.595
And, you know, the whole corrosion thing is interesting to me because I.

00:45:15.203 –> 00:45:19.383
I don’t want to judge the rest of the population by how I think,

00:45:19.483 –> 00:45:24.663
because that would be a big mistake, but I don’t know that that many people

00:45:24.663 –> 00:45:31.203
ever consider or think about the corrosion resistance a safe should provide

00:45:31.203 –> 00:45:33.363
for their firearms that they’re storing in it.

00:45:33.363 –> 00:45:37.463
Because I’m also going to go out on a limb, and I won’t say most,

00:45:37.583 –> 00:45:40.703
but I will say I think, unfortunately,

00:45:41.083 –> 00:45:47.463
that a lot of people that own firearms in general probably keep them stored

00:45:47.463 –> 00:45:51.643
for longer periods of time than they use them.

00:45:52.123 –> 00:45:57.643
And not that those chemicals are so powerful in there that your gun’s going

00:45:57.643 –> 00:46:00.703
to rust overnight or corrode overnight. Right.

00:46:01.203 –> 00:46:05.843
But in the long term, because those safes are, you know, built to last,

00:46:05.843 –> 00:46:10.623
it is a heavy duty metal piece, chunk of, you know, box containment system.

00:46:10.823 –> 00:46:14.563
You know, you’re probably going to pass that down. Right. Or give it to someone

00:46:14.563 –> 00:46:16.503
else or even sell it off. Right.

00:46:16.623 –> 00:46:21.383
So, you know, not that guns are going to sit in there long enough to be affected, but they could.

00:46:21.523 –> 00:46:24.423
And I don’t know that anybody’s thinking about it from that angle.

00:46:25.063 –> 00:46:28.643
I tell you that for me, though, and I think a lot of folks,

00:46:28.783 –> 00:46:32.063
the one thing that does come up talking about, and I think it’s safe to put

00:46:32.063 –> 00:46:38.423
it in the corrosion space topic, is the whole idea of moisture and getting rid

00:46:38.423 –> 00:46:40.183
of the moisture in your safe.

00:46:40.523 –> 00:46:44.483
And, you know, I’m obsessed with the little silicone beads and taking those

00:46:44.483 –> 00:46:48.323
out and plugging them in my outlets every few weeks and drying them out,

00:46:48.423 –> 00:46:51.563
put them back in there only for them to last another week or three.

00:46:52.423 –> 00:46:56.963
And so, you know, I do think there’s merit in removing moisture out of there.

00:46:57.263 –> 00:47:02.263
And I noticed that Secure has, because of their modularity and your ability

00:47:02.263 –> 00:47:06.683
to hang things up on the back wall in the safe, that you kind of have an open,

00:47:07.003 –> 00:47:12.043
if I’ve looked at the safes right, they’re kind of open, at least on the back portion.

00:47:12.703 –> 00:47:17.983
What do you deal with or how do you spend the whole moisture concern?

00:47:18.403 –> 00:47:21.643
Yeah, the Agile product line is back. The back is fully vented.

00:47:21.843 –> 00:47:26.043
Our answer lines are, they’re vented cabinets. Everything we do is vented in

00:47:26.043 –> 00:47:29.163
some way, so you’ve got ammunition there to cook off safely. Sure.

00:47:30.247 –> 00:47:36.787
The moisture issue for most of America is if the gun is properly cleaned and

00:47:36.787 –> 00:47:39.407
oiled, our humidity isn’t high enough to cause an issue.

00:47:40.487 –> 00:47:45.027
The problem with moisture is in a traditional gun state, because of the pyrite,

00:47:45.127 –> 00:47:50.847
the sulfuric acid, the formaldehyde, those chemicals require moisture.

00:47:51.147 –> 00:47:53.967
Because corrosion is an electrical process.

00:47:54.847 –> 00:47:58.407
If you look at actual corrosion, the rusting is an electrical process.

00:47:59.027 –> 00:48:03.627
Those acids, those materials, salts, they promote it.

00:48:03.927 –> 00:48:07.547
They promote that reaction. I mean, a battery is acid.

00:48:07.687 –> 00:48:12.027
That’s what that, you know, to make a car battery. It’s the same thing.

00:48:12.387 –> 00:48:17.907
You do need a little bit of moisture to fire off, get that electrical reaction.

00:48:18.047 –> 00:48:20.727
That’s why the push to get rid of moisture is so critical.

00:48:21.387 –> 00:48:25.067
Our states have no chemicals like that in whatsoever. However.

00:48:26.267 –> 00:48:29.427
There’s no, I mean, if the humidity level in your house is up a little bit,

00:48:29.587 –> 00:48:30.587
that can affect your gun.

00:48:30.967 –> 00:48:35.227
If you live in a real swamp with 95% humidity.

00:48:35.547 –> 00:48:39.727
Well, you know, Georgia is known for being like Cambodia in the summer sometimes.

00:48:40.387 –> 00:48:46.347
In that case, though, but again, in the military, they’ll run a dehumidifier in an armory.

00:48:46.907 –> 00:48:50.587
But they’re also, they clean and oil the guns properly. And that’s how they

00:48:50.587 –> 00:48:52.187
store them. Yeah, absolutely.

00:48:52.567 –> 00:48:56.047
And that’s a good point, too. You make their just, yeah, no,

00:48:56.227 –> 00:48:58.987
I was going to say that’s a really good point, Tom.

00:48:59.147 –> 00:49:04.607
And I’ve said that many times before, you know, it’s not only a great idea just

00:49:04.607 –> 00:49:08.687
in the general care of your firearms, but from a safety perspective too,

00:49:08.887 –> 00:49:12.907
you should be cleaning and properly lubricating, you know,

00:49:13.287 –> 00:49:16.487
your CLP, whatever you opt to use on your firearms.

00:49:16.687 –> 00:49:19.827
You should be cleaning them and storing them clean, certainly.

00:49:20.047 –> 00:49:23.607
So that’s a good point there. Absolutely. And if you are going to do a product

00:49:23.607 –> 00:49:26.787
in a space, they have those sticks that they heat up the space.

00:49:27.537 –> 00:49:33.437
I would recommend get a desiccant pack. A desiccant pack actually absorbs the moisture and holds it.

00:49:33.717 –> 00:49:38.497
When you put a heat rod in a safe, what you’re doing is you’re warming up the safe.

00:49:38.817 –> 00:49:43.957
So the humidity, which the term is relative humidity, as you increase the temperature

00:49:43.957 –> 00:49:47.277
of the safe, you’re lowering the relative humidity.

00:49:47.457 –> 00:49:50.297
That’s humidity relative to temperature.

00:49:50.637 –> 00:49:53.637
You’re not actually reducing the moisture in the safe at all.

00:49:53.637 –> 00:49:58.677
You’re just raising the temperature of the state so the relative humidity number drops.

00:49:59.257 –> 00:50:03.297
The moisture’s still there. Now, it does slow the reaction, rush reaction. It does.

00:50:03.637 –> 00:50:06.837
But you still have the moisture. You’re much better off, and they’re cheap,

00:50:06.937 –> 00:50:08.257
as to buy desiccant packs.

00:50:08.577 –> 00:50:11.737
They sell them in the Ziploc thing that is completely sealed.

00:50:11.897 –> 00:50:13.757
You pull two packs out, put it in your state.

00:50:14.177 –> 00:50:18.097
Every month, change them. Change them out. They actually draw the moisture up

00:50:18.097 –> 00:50:22.177
and eliminate the moisture, not just raise the temperature and kind of hide it.

00:50:22.177 –> 00:50:26.117
Well, talking about the carpet and the glue and whatever else is in there,

00:50:26.257 –> 00:50:30.577
and I’m no chemist, so I can’t, you know, speak to what happens.

00:50:30.797 –> 00:50:34.717
But to me, heating up that environment doesn’t seem like it would be a good

00:50:34.717 –> 00:50:38.717
thing and might actually accelerate some of those things, putting off whatever

00:50:38.717 –> 00:50:39.977
they’re putting off, right?

00:50:41.017 –> 00:50:44.897
You were paying attention in chemistry class. It does.

00:50:46.097 –> 00:50:51.957
Those reactions are increasing. however also getting your relative humidity

00:50:51.957 –> 00:50:56.637
it’s kind of a yin yang if you’ve got corrosion already happening and you know

00:50:56.637 –> 00:51:01.337
how it is like once corrosion stops rust never sleeps it’s that line of the song but,

00:51:01.971 –> 00:51:06.571
Once corrosion starts and the electrical process starts, the right environment,

00:51:06.571 –> 00:51:09.131
it can accelerate and move very, very quickly.

00:51:09.951 –> 00:51:14.851
It’s like, you know, one bad apple that’s rotting in a bunch of apples. It spoils all of them.

00:51:15.231 –> 00:51:17.991
Rust kind of does the same thing. It can.

00:51:19.311 –> 00:51:22.311
There are scientists that will argue, well, it has to go through these steps.

00:51:22.591 –> 00:51:26.371
But a rusting environment accelerates.

00:51:26.611 –> 00:51:30.211
And so if you’ve got a traditional gun safe, that’s a compact.

00:51:30.491 –> 00:51:32.691
Get rid of it. Open the door a lot. Let it vent out.

00:51:33.191 –> 00:51:35.731
And if people just properly clean their guns and check them,

00:51:36.171 –> 00:51:40.911
you know, it’s one of the problems with the deep safe is it’s hard to get to the guns in the back.

00:51:41.171 –> 00:51:43.691
Quite often you got your two or three favorite range guns.

00:51:44.071 –> 00:51:47.371
Well, next thing you know, eight years has gone by and you’ve never touched

00:51:47.371 –> 00:51:49.831
the guns in the back. Yeah. And that’s a problem.

00:51:50.111 –> 00:51:54.191
Yeah. You know, we store them in one row for the reason of. You’re all right there.

00:51:55.151 –> 00:51:58.911
Yeah. And you can check them and just a bolt action. I just pull the bolt, the lever action.

00:51:58.991 –> 00:52:02.331
I’ll drop the lever and I expect the end of the barrel. There’s points where

00:52:02.331 –> 00:52:04.531
guns will start to corrode first.

00:52:05.411 –> 00:52:08.251
And you just check those points.

00:52:08.531 –> 00:52:12.751
And it shouldn’t be something we have to talk about.

00:52:12.951 –> 00:52:19.291
But the industry in a drive to sell perception and not sell an actual product

00:52:19.291 –> 00:52:25.391
that works has gotten to this point for low cost and high volume that they’re

00:52:25.391 –> 00:52:27.551
producing a product that actually is,

00:52:28.087 –> 00:52:31.127
damaging to the firearms. The very thing they’re supposed to secure,

00:52:31.887 –> 00:52:36.847
they’re actually, again, the military would not allow us to use any of these

00:52:36.847 –> 00:52:40.327
materials in armory because they are corrosive. Yeah.

00:52:41.227 –> 00:52:45.367
So I think the biggest takeaway for me, and we’ve talked about a lot of points,

00:52:45.447 –> 00:52:48.807
and this has been good because it’s certainly dispelled a lot of things that,

00:52:49.007 –> 00:52:51.427
again, I’ve been guilty of myself,

00:52:51.687 –> 00:52:56.387
and I’m sure a lot of other safe owners out there have been as well,

00:52:56.427 –> 00:52:59.387
is that You need to lock up your firearms.

00:52:59.607 –> 00:53:05.287
As a responsible firearm owner, regardless of what you choose or how you choose,

00:53:05.287 –> 00:53:09.707
the method that you choose to lock up your firearm, you need to be locking them up.

00:53:09.827 –> 00:53:12.207
That’s to keep your children protected.

00:53:12.727 –> 00:53:16.287
That’s to keep those that don’t know what they’re doing and don’t have any business

00:53:16.287 –> 00:53:18.867
with firearms away from yours.

00:53:19.067 –> 00:53:21.567
And that’s to keep, you know, at the end of the day, if someone breaks into

00:53:21.567 –> 00:53:24.667
your house, that’s to make things a little, at least slow them down,

00:53:24.867 –> 00:53:28.387
making it a little bit more challenging. But the point of it is,

00:53:28.487 –> 00:53:33.327
as a responsible firearm owner, we need to be locking our stuff up.

00:53:34.047 –> 00:53:39.987
So, Tom, this has been a great chat. How can people learn more and find out about you guys?

00:53:40.207 –> 00:53:44.727
The website is secureitgunstorage.com. If they just Google secure it,

00:53:44.867 –> 00:53:47.347
all one word, they’ll find us. We’re all over the web.

00:53:47.767 –> 00:53:52.567
We’ve got a pretty big digital footprint. And then we’ve got a military site, Secure It Defense.

00:53:53.027 –> 00:53:57.027
And then the consumer site is Secure It Gun Storage. If you end up on the military

00:53:57.027 –> 00:54:01.147
site, a lot of the military stuff, there is a link that ties you back to the consumer product.

00:54:01.447 –> 00:54:05.887
That’s good. All the military products are available on our retail sites for

00:54:05.887 –> 00:54:09.967
people who want, if they want that look of a true military armory and storage.

00:54:10.587 –> 00:54:13.547
You’ve got a pretty good gun collection in that system. Yeah,

00:54:13.567 –> 00:54:16.467
yeah. We sell a lot of them to the consumer market. Sure.

00:54:17.027 –> 00:54:21.867
This has been great, Tom. I appreciate your time and informing the audience

00:54:21.867 –> 00:54:26.087
what they need to know and consider about safes. hopefully dispels some myths

00:54:26.087 –> 00:54:31.747
maybe along the way as well and give folks some better options as well.

00:54:32.207 –> 00:54:35.667
So I appreciate you doing this. Yeah, and I hope that the industry will step

00:54:35.667 –> 00:54:39.167
up and start making some of the changes that we’re pushing for because,

00:54:39.447 –> 00:54:45.207
again, the goal here is to make the American consumer, the American gun owner,

00:54:45.427 –> 00:54:51.807
the safest he can be and to put him in a position to defend his family in the event of a crisis.

00:54:51.987 –> 00:54:54.347
Absolutely. And that should be the core focus of these products,

00:54:54.427 –> 00:54:57.107
and it’s not. We’re trying to change that. Yeah, that’s great.

00:54:57.447 –> 00:55:01.747
And, you know, just in our conversation, I’m starting to rethink a lot of things

00:55:01.747 –> 00:55:03.707
when it comes to securing my firearms.

00:55:03.867 –> 00:55:06.667
So this has been good, and I appreciate it. Thanks so much.

00:55:07.187 –> 00:55:10.467
Well, thank you very much. I’ve enjoyed being on the show. Thank you.

00:55:18.160 –> 00:55:29.569
Music.