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Music.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of The Self-Initiative Project Podcast.

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I’m your host, Jim O’Brien. Episode 10, we finally get back around to continuing

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on the topic of gun safety.

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Part 2, we’ve got Denis Haynes back with us, my good buddy back with us,

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to continue the discussion of gun safety again. How are you, Denis?

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Hey, Jim. Thank you for having me back. This has been a long time coming.

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We said we were going to immediately have Part 2, And here we are almost a year

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later, finally getting around to wrapping up the discussion of gun safety.

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Finally, at last. So good times. Yeah. So in our first part,

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I think we primarily covered Jeff Cooper’s top four gun safety rules.

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And so just real quick before we get into tonight’s topics, because we’ve got

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some other rules to cover.

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And, you know, we joked around some last time, I think, about the redundancy.

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You know, and I say it a lot too, redundancy, redundancy, redundancy, right?

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So across these different, depending on the source of the gun safety rules that

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we talk about, there are some overlaps.

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There is some redundancies, but that’s okay.

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So Jeff Cooper’s four rules, number one, we’re just going to breeze through

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these as a recap. Number one is all guns are always loaded.

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You treat every gun as if it was loaded at all times.

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And like I’ve said before, that kind of of sets the precedence in my mind for the rest of these.

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But number two is never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

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Always be aware of the business end of that barrel and where it’s pointing and

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make sure it’s pointing at not at anything you don’t want to shoot intentionally

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or accidentally or otherwise.

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Number three, keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target

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and you’re ready to shoot.

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Self-explanatory, fingers should be off the trigger and outside the trigger guard.

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And last but not least, number four, be sure of your target and what’s around it.

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In other words, don’t take the shot unless you’re sure you’ve got a clear shot

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and there’s nothing behind that target that you’re going to hit that you’re

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not meaning to hit. Do you have anything to add to that?

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No, I think you hit it spot on. You know, being familiar with the rules myself,

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you know, the third rule, keep your finger off the trigger, I think is most important.

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And, you know, we see a lot of stories on the news and even in television where

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a lot of accidental discharges is primarily because someone had their finger

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on the trigger when they’re not ready to pull the trigger. And it causes an accidental discharge.

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Absolutely. And, you know, I think we briefly touched on that in the first podcast.

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And, you know, part one of gun safety was actually the very first podcast that

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we ever did, the self-initiative project.

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So that’s kind of exciting in and of itself. But I remember us talking about

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the trigger and, you know, it seems like in Hollywood and on TV and the movies,

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whatever, anytime somebody is handling a firearm,

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whether a good guy or a bad guy, their finger seems to be more oftentimes than

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not on the trigger, even when they’re not shooting, even when they’re just holding

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or carrying the firearm with them, their fingers always on the trigger.

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So you make an excellent point.

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Keep that, you know, some of the guys say, keep the booger picker off the bang switch.

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And I couldn’t agree more. That’s an important one for sure.

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You know, Jim, I have to say, I’m a big zombie guy, right?

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And one of my favorite movies is World War Z. Brad Pitt, right?

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Yes, Brad Pitt. The scientist that was supposed to save the world because he

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knew what was going on, when they got into the heat of it, he got scared,

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turned around and ran away, had his firearm,

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his pistol out, and tripped and fell.

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On because his hand was on his finger was on the trigger he shot

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himself in the head yeah yeah i thought i

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thought i thought you don’t follow gun safety at all

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just just the basic yeah that that happened so i and in in fairness there have

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been some shows and you know i’m not going to name show names or anything like

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that but there have been some shows in more recent past where if i I were honest,

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I can say that some have done a better job in depicting the proper way of handling.

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In other words, you see the finger off the triggers.

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But by and large, more often times than not, I can’t tell you how many scenes…

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Even going back to that famous, you know, the debate is, is it a Christmas movie?

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Is it not a Christmas movie? But that big high dollar action Christmas movie

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that we just watched again over the holidays, even in that movie,

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they’ve got their fingers on the trigger, even when they’re not shooting and

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they’re just walking around carrying the firearms.

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So, yeah, certainly important to keep your finger off the trigger until you’re

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ready to shoot and you’re sure of your target.

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It. So there’s some other list of rules and I want to breeze through a couple

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of sets of these and you’ll see the similarities, the overlap,

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the redundancy, whatever you want to call.

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And one of those, and this is more complete. So Jeff Cooper kind of came up with those four.

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If you follow those four, it’ll kind of keep you out of the trouble,

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out of trouble the rest of the time. And I completely agree.

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And it’s certainly the four that I think it’s safe to say you and I subscribe

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to certainly, but the, the other lists are a little longer.

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There’s typically 10 to 12 overall rules.

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And I think it’s important to cover these just so you understand there are some

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others that you should think about and be aware of.

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The first set, and just going to cover these real quickly, feel free to interrupt

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me and highlight something that stands out to you.

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But the first set of rules, there’s 12, and they’re actually called the 12 golden

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rules for safe gun handling.

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And I’m not a hundred percent certain of the origin of these other than you can find them.

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And anytime you do research on a mag tech, as in mag tech ammunitions website comes up all the time.

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If somebody wants to chime in later and comment or send us an email and let

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us know what the origin is, that’s great.

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I think actually the NRA is kind of borrowed or copied some of these for their

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own, but the 12 golden rules for safe gun handling are one,

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always treat the gun as if it was loaded to always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

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Three, always keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready

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to shoot for always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.

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And I think that’s a, you know, that’s a good, good one to stop on because I

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understand what they’re saying there.

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You know, if you’re not using your guns, especially in, you know,

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if you’re not carrying or not planning to use it in a self-defense scenario,

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you’re hunting or you’re target shooting, then it’s a good, I think you would agree,

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it’s a good idea to keep that gun unloaded until you’re actually ready to use it.

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Yeah, I think if any of these were controversial, it would be number four amongst

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the gun community, right?

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Because based on what you’re doing with your weapon, if you’re carrying,

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do you necessarily not want to keep around loaded in the chamber?

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So we’ve talked about this before. I think the Israelis do not keep around chambered,

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right? So they train to chamber around before pulling the trigger.

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So I think, you know, that one should take that rule in perspective to what

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they’re applying it to. Yeah.

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I personally, on my carry weapon, I keep around loaded in the chamber. Absolutely.

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My home defense weapons have around in the chamber.

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I know that if my

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loved ones had to pick up a weapon and engage

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they’re probably not going to be in clear

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mind under the stress to route to to uh chamber around and that’s just one thing

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they one less thing they have to worry about or even load the even load the

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firearm in the first place right like you can’t keep unloaded weapons around

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the house and expect to not only get to them in time,

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but load them in order to use them to defend yourself. So you’re right.

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Contextually, I think in hunting or just going to the range and shooting,

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you know, your fun guns, so to speak, or your hunting guns, I think this rule makes a lot of sense.

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Number five, never point the gun at anything you don’t intend to destroy.

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Number six, be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

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Number seven learn the mechanical and

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handling characteristics of the gun you’re using i

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think that’s a great one right you know they like

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a lot of things and of course men have a horrible time with it i know i do you

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know read the instructions before you attempt this thing right and so you know

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when you purchase a firearm it comes with a manual you may not read the entire

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thing cover to cover but you probably should right because there’s a lot of

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pointers in there there’s a lot of safety tips, a lot of warnings.

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You learn how to break down the weapon correctly and put it back together.

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They’ll briefly touch upon, not necessarily gun safety rules per se,

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but they’ll touch upon how to use that particular weapon, you know,

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is it a striker fire versus having a hammer, et cetera. So it’s a good idea to read that manual.

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And so, you know, that manual and that information contained in that manual

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helps you begin to get familiar with the mechanical and handling characteristics

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of the gun you’re using, right?

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I agree. And again, you have to follow the previous rules before that because

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we’ve all known people trying to become familiar with a gun and the gun is loaded

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and they have an accidental discharge.

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But when you’re getting to know your weapon, first thing is make sure it’s unloaded.

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But I think it’s very important that you handle a weapon that you plan on carrying

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or even going to the range and shooting, you know, often you should become very

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familiar with it, you know, play with it, break it down, make sure it’s safe,

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put it in your hand, dry fire it, you know, it should become second nature.

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Yeah, absolutely. And you bring up an excellent point too.

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And we’ll talk more about this on some of the other subjects that we plan on

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covering in this podcast, but when you’re learning that weapon for the first time.

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You know, you mentioned making sure that that firearm is clear and free of ammunition.

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100% agree, but I’d take it a step further. There shouldn’t even be any ammunition in the area, right?

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You’re playing with this gun, as you say. You’re taking it apart, possibly.

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You’re learning, you know, if it’s a hammer, if it’s got a hammer,

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you’re learning how that hammer works, what the trigger reset’s like,

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where the manual safety is.

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If it does have an external safety, you know, all those things.

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You’re maybe inserting the magazine and taking it back out again,

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racking the slide, you know, becoming familiar with that mechanical device,

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because at the end of the day, that’s what it is.

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And you want to become familiar with it before you shoot it for the first time.

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Ammo shouldn’t even be introduced into the area that you’re playing,

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so to speak, with that firearm.

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And I think that’s a good policy to follow.

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Number eight, I think this is a good one, too. And it’s, you know,

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we can talk about this one at length, but just real quickly here,

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always use the proper ammunition.

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You know, the general rule is a smaller caliber weapon cannot shoot a larger

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caliber bullet, larger caliber ammunition.

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There are some instances, for example, if you have an AR that’s a 5.56 caliber,

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you can also shoot .223, but you can’t shoot 5.56 out of a .223.

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You’d blow it up because it’s not set for those pressures.

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It’s not designed to shoot 5.56.

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So in some cases, a larger caliber weapon can shoot a lower caliber bullet,

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but you can’t shoot a larger caliber out of a smaller. And the same,

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for example, is the .357 Magnum pistol, for example.

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Yeah, you can shoot a .38 Special out of a .357 Magnum, but you certainly can’t

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shoot a .357 Magnum out of a .38 Special.

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So when you’re becoming familiar with your firearms, be certain what ammo it

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shoots and know what you can and cannot shoot out of it.

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Yeah, I think that’s very important because there are some weapons out there

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that, you know, can shoot multiple types of ammunition and you should know what they are.

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Absolutely. Number nine, be sure the barrel is clear of obstructions before loading and shooting.

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You know, when I get a new gun, I have a habit,

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and sometimes I don’t do it, but I generally have a habit of at least shining

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a light down that barrel even before I get it to the range to make sure there

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hasn’t been some cotton ball or some sort of cardboard something lodged in the end of that barrel.

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I’m actually pretty rigorous about following this

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one and I think it becomes even more important if you’re

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outdoors especially hunting if you were to trip and

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fall or drop your firearm on the

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ground or in the mud or in the swamp you know whatever it

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is you want to make sure that barrel is clear of obstructions because that can

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be bad news if you were to fire that weapon and that barrel have something in

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it blocking it up number 10 if your gun fails to fire when the trigger is pulled

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Hold your shooting position for several seconds,

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then with the muzzle pointed in the safe direction. Very important.

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Carefully unload the gun. This is another one that I think trips some folks up.

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A lot of times, you know, for center-fired weapons that have a primer,

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they hit light primer strikes by the firing pin.

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You know, it doesn’t necessarily discharge the bullet the first time.

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And so, you know, they may try again a couple of times before they just figure

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the bullet, you know, the ammo is a dud and they throw it away.

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But and it becomes even more important with center with rim fired ammunition,

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sorry, rim fired ammunition like your 22 longs and shorts, et cetera.

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Because with rim fires you can get what

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they call hang fires where the firing pin hits

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the rim like it should but the powder

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doesn’t charge doesn’t discharge like it

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should and 22s especially

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have been known for hang fires in other words the firing

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pin hits the rim nothing happens and

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then a few seconds later bang the bullet goes

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off so i know when i was growing up learning to

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shoot 22s at camp they’d tell us if we ever had

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a misfire in other words you know the we pulled

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the trigger the firing pin hit we were to keep

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that barrel pointed down range for 30

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seconds to allow that powder time to ignite if it was going to and then after

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that you know pull the bolt back or eject around or whatever and you know at

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that point you could assume it was a dud but i think it’s important to remember

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that when your bullet doesn’t go bang when you pull the trigger

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just give it a few seconds keep that barrel pointed in a safe direction give

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it a minute because it may have a delayed uh it it may go off in a delayed fashion

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and that wouldn’t be good for anybody well listen i think jim you said you went to camp yeah right.

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Shoot, I grew up in the South Bronx in the 70s, so I guess that was kind of

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a camp. That was camp, right?

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22s in the street, right? Let’s

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see, number 11, don’t rely on the gun’s safety to keep it from firing.

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You know, this was, I think, on yours and my NRA basic pistol instructor test is,

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you know, even when a firearm, whether it be a pistol or a rifle,

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even if it has an external safety switch on it and you’ve got it on safe,

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those mechanical safeties are never 100 percent or you should never,

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ever assume they’re 100 percent certain.

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Because at the end of the day, it’s a mechanical device subject to failure.

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And so the safety is there for peace of mind, but there’s never 100% guarantee with them.

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I think, you know, one of Cooper’s quotes that I remember is,

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safety happens between your ears and not in your hand.

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00:16:36,651 –> 00:16:40,911
Yeah. And I think that’s to this, right? You have to be conscious of safety.

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00:16:41,471 –> 00:16:44,851
Absolutely. And you made that point in the first podcast. And I think it’s an

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important one. It’s really what goes on upstairs between your ears, right?

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And, you know, regardless of what state the firearm’s in, it’s always ultimately

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up to the handler of that firearm to handle it safely.

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And number 12 is be aware of your surroundings when handling guns so you don’t

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trip or lose your balance and accidentally point and or fire the gun at anyone or anything.

246
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And I think that’s just a matter of you know Trying not trying to be less clumsy

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if you have a tendency to be clumsy and you have a firearm This goes back to

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why you know, especially if you’re out hunting why it’s important to keep that firearm.

249
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Unloaded or especially on safe if it has a external safety, so when accidents

250
00:17:30,591 –> 00:17:32,931
do happen like you trip and fall and,

251
00:17:33,520 –> 00:17:39,460
Additional accidents are less likely to happen, but again, being extra careful

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and being aware of where that muzzle is pointing is especially key.

253
00:17:45,580 –> 00:17:49,840
One thing I want to mention, I’m sorry, go ahead. Not that I agree.

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00:17:50,740 –> 00:17:52,380
Well, good. You should. Good.

255
00:17:54,980 –> 00:17:59,240
One thing I want to mention talking about out of the 12 golden rules,

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number 10, if the gun fails to fire when the trigger is pulled,

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holding your shooting position for several seconds.

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Tied to that, there’s a condition that occurs, and you typically don’t see it

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in factory ammunition so much, although it’s possible, but you see it more in

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remanufactured or reloads.

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There’s a there’s a an occurrence

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called squibs and this is when you

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pull the trigger the firing pin hits the

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primer for example but the

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you know the gun doesn’t sound right the

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gun makes a pop or a very soft quiet bang

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and maybe you think it shot but it

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didn’t our or it didn’t and shoot

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regularly and so what a squib is is when

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you pull the trigger the cartridge you know

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the the powder burns in the cartridge and it actually fires the bullet but it

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shoots it at a very low velocity because there’s something went wrong inside

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the casing right and and it’s probably due to a very low amount of powder compared

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to what should be in there and so what happens is

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that bullet actually doesn’t even make it out of the end of the barrel.

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It gets lodged inside the barrel.

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And so if you’re not really paying attention, you can follow that shot up because

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everything up to that point seems normal.

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The shell may even eject, right?

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But if you shot that second shot after that squib occurrence,

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you’re likely to have a gun blow up in your hands because that second bullet

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wants to get out of that barrel like it always does.

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And if there’s a squib bullet stuck inside that bullet, that’s bad news.

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So that’s a rare thing. It doesn’t happen often.

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00:19:45,800 –> 00:19:52,040
It typically happens with remanufactured ammo or reloads, but that is something to be aware of.

286
00:19:52,857 –> 00:19:57,157
Yeah, it is. I think black powder also is common.

287
00:19:57,377 –> 00:20:01,177
But yeah, so, you know, that’s back to knowing your ammunition, right?

288
00:20:01,317 –> 00:20:05,597
And being familiar with the weapon and how the ammunition that you’re firing

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00:20:05,597 –> 00:20:09,677
should react once you pull the trigger, right? For a novice,

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00:20:09,737 –> 00:20:10,917
they probably wouldn’t know that.

291
00:20:11,077 –> 00:20:15,337
So, you know, it’s good that they at least read up and become familiar before

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00:20:15,337 –> 00:20:20,277
they just go out to the range or even out to a field and start using a weapon

293
00:20:20,277 –> 00:20:23,057
that they’re not familiar with and the ammunition that they’re using,

294
00:20:23,097 –> 00:20:24,777
right? You should be familiar with both.

295
00:20:25,017 –> 00:20:30,297
Well, you know, it’s especially an issue because, you know, remanufactured or

296
00:20:30,297 –> 00:20:34,417
reloaded ammunition is typically a lot less expensive than first,

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00:20:34,457 –> 00:20:36,517
you know, first quality factory ammunition.

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00:20:36,517 –> 00:20:40,557
And so that makes it very appealing, even for the first time shooter.

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00:20:40,637 –> 00:20:44,457
And they may not know of that concept and be aware of that concept because it’s

300
00:20:44,457 –> 00:20:48,977
not necessarily something mentioned in the firearms manual, for example.

301
00:20:48,977 –> 00:20:53,237
And unless you’ve heard that or stumbled upon it before you went to shoot,

302
00:20:53,337 –> 00:20:55,277
you may not know to look out for that.

303
00:20:55,357 –> 00:20:59,397
If you’ve bought thousands of rounds of remanufactured ammo.

304
00:20:59,677 –> 00:21:04,517
You need to be aware of the squib and what to do in that case.

305
00:21:04,517 –> 00:21:09,057
And so, you know, to that end, what you should do is immediately stop,

306
00:21:09,297 –> 00:21:14,577
unload that weapon, unchamber any round that you may have chambered after that,

307
00:21:14,737 –> 00:21:18,657
and then you’re going to have to get that stuck bullet unlodged somehow.

308
00:21:18,837 –> 00:21:24,597
And so, yeah, certainly a good point to know, which is why I wanted to mention it here.

309
00:21:25,397 –> 00:21:30,237
So just real quickly, covering the NRA’s rules, and again, you’re going to see

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00:21:30,237 –> 00:21:34,177
some overlap, redundancies, some themes here, and I think that’s good,

311
00:21:34,277 –> 00:21:35,517
but just to cover the basics.

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00:21:35,817 –> 00:21:40,057
And the NRA is a big organization, so a lot of times you’ll hear those rules

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00:21:40,057 –> 00:21:42,777
come up as much or more than anyone else’s.

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00:21:43,137 –> 00:21:47,097
The first one is always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

315
00:21:47,377 –> 00:21:51,277
We’ve heard that one. Keep seeing that one. That’s key, because if something

316
00:21:51,277 –> 00:21:55,497
did happen and there was a negligent discharge or an accidental discharge,

317
00:21:55,897 –> 00:22:01,257
then as long as that muzzle’s pointed in a safe direction, no one’s going to get hurt, hopefully.

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00:22:01,877 –> 00:22:05,037
Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

319
00:22:05,117 –> 00:22:06,657
We’ve heard that one a few times.

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Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use, and I think for the NRA, that’s probably,

321
00:22:13,004 –> 00:22:18,004
Probably a good one. I get the sense that the NRA is more competition,

322
00:22:18,464 –> 00:22:23,984
fun target shooting, hunting than it is tactical self-defense oriented.

323
00:22:24,204 –> 00:22:28,364
I mean, they have some things for home defense and some self-defense,

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00:22:28,524 –> 00:22:33,724
but I think by and large and historically the NRA has been leaning more towards

325
00:22:33,724 –> 00:22:37,764
the target, the fun shooting, the hunting. So that makes sense.

326
00:22:37,864 –> 00:22:41,584
And so that’s their top three. And then after that, they have some others and

327
00:22:41,584 –> 00:22:44,644
some of these are really good. So again, some overlap.

328
00:22:44,844 –> 00:22:46,824
Know your target and what’s beyond it.

329
00:22:47,104 –> 00:22:52,744
Know how to use the gun safely. And I think that’s a following these gun safety

330
00:22:52,744 –> 00:22:54,104
rules we’re talking about.

331
00:22:54,104 –> 00:22:59,724
And in addition to anything you’ve picked up on or learned online about your

332
00:22:59,724 –> 00:23:06,424
firearm or in its manual be sure the gun is safe to operate again I think that’s

333
00:23:06,424 –> 00:23:11,284
making sure the barrel is clear of obstructions keeping your firearms clean etc.

334
00:23:12,644 –> 00:23:18,924
On that one right because I think that’s a good one to talk about it a little

335
00:23:18,924 –> 00:23:23,004
bit because you know you get a lot of guys that get at hand-me-down guns,

336
00:23:23,264 –> 00:23:26,524
their grandfather’s gun, his father’s gun, an old World War II gun,

337
00:23:26,764 –> 00:23:31,604
or some loop, something that’s been in storage for who knows how long, right?

338
00:23:31,684 –> 00:23:34,904
They finally get their hands on it, and the first thing they want to do is go out and shoot it.

339
00:23:36,024 –> 00:23:40,224
And they’re not even sure if the gun’s operational. And I think that I think

340
00:23:40,224 –> 00:23:43,444
that’s important, you know, that before you do something like that,

341
00:23:43,844 –> 00:23:47,504
take it to an armorer, get it checked, or, you know, at least inspect the gun yourself.

342
00:23:48,064 –> 00:23:51,444
You know, make sure it has the proper maintenance, put some oil in it.

343
00:23:51,644 –> 00:23:57,344
How many times I’ve had people come to the range and have a gun that was given

344
00:23:57,344 –> 00:24:02,964
to them and the thing is rusty, it’s dried out and they shoot it and it doesn’t operate correctly.

345
00:24:03,164 –> 00:24:07,704
And we spend more time just trying to get it in a condition that it will fire,

346
00:24:07,724 –> 00:24:11,804
right, than they do shooting it. Actually shooting it, yeah.

347
00:24:12,536 –> 00:24:16,016
So I think that’s important here. That’s an excellent point.

348
00:24:16,156 –> 00:24:21,556
Yeah, those old surplus weapons is another one that you’ll see a lot of.

349
00:24:21,676 –> 00:24:25,976
And certainly we’ve seen our share of hand-me-down weapons or,

350
00:24:26,076 –> 00:24:30,516
you know, things that have been willed to children, etc. So, yeah, absolutely.

351
00:24:30,776 –> 00:24:36,296
Take it to the armor. It’s a little extra precaution goes a long way towards safe shooting for sure.

352
00:24:36,896 –> 00:24:38,696
This one we’ve seen again and again.

353
00:24:39,316 –> 00:24:43,316
Use only the correct ammunition for your gun. This one’s important,

354
00:24:43,456 –> 00:24:46,056
especially when you’re shooting on the range in a lot of situations,

355
00:24:46,376 –> 00:24:49,116
wear eye and ear protection as appropriate.

356
00:24:49,356 –> 00:24:53,636
Again, in a self-defense situation, yeah, if you’re in your safe room in your

357
00:24:53,636 –> 00:24:59,216
home, which we’ve talked about in another podcast, but you might have some hearing

358
00:24:59,216 –> 00:25:02,076
protection that you might have time to get to.

359
00:25:02,256 –> 00:25:05,796
But certainly when you’re shooting at a range, whether it’s indoor or outdoor,

360
00:25:06,056 –> 00:25:11,396
you want to make certain that you have eye and ear protection on your eyes and

361
00:25:11,396 –> 00:25:16,336
ears. And the good news is they’re most any range is going to enforce that rule.

362
00:25:16,496 –> 00:25:19,476
If they enforce nothing else, they’re going to make sure you have your eyes

363
00:25:19,476 –> 00:25:21,416
and ears on before you go out to shoot.

364
00:25:21,816 –> 00:25:27,376
This one’s a big one that we’ve talked about, and I’m surprised how many people do try.

365
00:25:27,496 –> 00:25:32,136
Unfortunately, it doesn’t happen that often, but I have seen it happen multiple times.

366
00:25:32,296 –> 00:25:36,756
Never use alcohol, over-the-counter drugs, or prescription drugs.

367
00:25:36,756 –> 00:25:42,096
And I would add to the list illegal drugs, especially before or while shooting.

368
00:25:42,316 –> 00:25:45,496
And that’s a big one. You know, it’s funny.

369
00:25:45,556 –> 00:25:53,396
When I was a kid and in that same summer camp, we used to have to go through the 10 or so NRA rules.

370
00:25:53,716 –> 00:25:58,856
And I remember when we got to this one, the rule that they taught us,

371
00:25:58,916 –> 00:26:03,776
which was a variance of this, is never mix alcohol and gunpowder together.

372
00:26:03,776 –> 00:26:08,896
And I always thought, you know, being the 12 year old, I thought they literally

373
00:26:08,896 –> 00:26:12,356
meant don’t mix alcohol and gunpowder together.

374
00:26:12,876 –> 00:26:18,736
I don’t know. I don’t know why. But now I get it. Like, you don’t want to be

375
00:26:18,736 –> 00:26:19,756
drunk when you’re shooting.

376
00:26:19,876 –> 00:26:22,496
You don’t want to be high when you’re shooting. You know, a lot of the,

377
00:26:22,596 –> 00:26:27,356
even the over-the-counter drugs, sinus medicines and stuff, or NyQuil,

378
00:26:27,436 –> 00:26:29,656
you know, they have a tendency to make some people loopy.

379
00:26:29,676 –> 00:26:34,496
So, choose another time to go shoot, certainly, if you’re under the influence of anything.

380
00:26:35,516 –> 00:26:39,456
Absolutely. And I think we’ve both experienced range safety officers where we’ve

381
00:26:39,456 –> 00:26:44,596
had to make a decision on whether someone is intoxicated or,

382
00:26:44,696 –> 00:26:45,876
you know, smells like alcohol.

383
00:26:46,096 –> 00:26:50,336
And now they should be on the range, right? And that’s more common than people think. Yeah.

384
00:26:50,769 –> 00:26:55,089
Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve seen it a few times. I’ve been in the booth.

385
00:26:55,229 –> 00:27:00,309
I’ve gone into the booth with folks and there’s a strong smell of alcohol.

386
00:27:00,389 –> 00:27:04,089
And I’ve also been on the range where there’s a strong smell of weed.

387
00:27:04,189 –> 00:27:10,269
And, you know, the, the, the gun range folks should be cognizant and paying

388
00:27:10,269 –> 00:27:15,129
closer attention to those that come in smelling like it, if nothing else.

389
00:27:15,749 –> 00:27:19,209
So that’s the top rules for the NRA. That’s the 10.

390
00:27:19,689 –> 00:27:22,849
You know, they talk about cleaning your weapons, which we’re going to talk about

391
00:27:22,849 –> 00:27:25,349
some here in this podcast as well.

392
00:27:25,369 –> 00:27:29,749
And some, you know, paying attention to additional safety precautions.

393
00:27:29,749 –> 00:27:34,649
You know, you bring up the fact that we’ve both served as volunteer range safety

394
00:27:34,649 –> 00:27:40,829
officers at a range and what they mean by at least what I take it to mean when

395
00:27:40,829 –> 00:27:43,209
they talk about following additional safety precautions,

396
00:27:43,549 –> 00:27:48,589
you know, is every every gun range has a standard set of operating procedures

397
00:27:48,589 –> 00:27:52,929
that they want people to follow and and abide by.

398
00:27:52,929 –> 00:27:59,029
And so, you know, when you go to the range, be sure you know what that range’s safety rules are.

399
00:27:59,129 –> 00:28:02,969
If they do have additional safety rules or any safety rules at all that they

400
00:28:02,969 –> 00:28:08,669
want you to pay special attention to, they’ll generally post them somewhere for you.

401
00:28:08,709 –> 00:28:12,109
So take a moment, read over that list, and more importantly,

402
00:28:12,309 –> 00:28:13,949
follow what’s on that list.

403
00:28:14,629 –> 00:28:17,469
I agree. As I should.

404
00:28:18,509 –> 00:28:23,289
Say again? I said I agree as I should. Right, as you should.

405
00:28:24,213 –> 00:28:29,613
So that’s a good segue talking about RSO and following any additional safety

406
00:28:29,613 –> 00:28:31,293
rules that a range may have.

407
00:28:32,253 –> 00:28:37,253
Let’s talk about range safety. What should I do when I go to shoot?

408
00:28:37,393 –> 00:28:40,433
And again, it doesn’t really matter if it’s indoor or outdoor.

409
00:28:40,853 –> 00:28:46,093
It’s just safety rules that I should be following, things that I should be cognizant of.

410
00:28:46,233 –> 00:28:50,693
And then we can also talk about some of the things we’ve seen firsthand as range

411
00:28:50,693 –> 00:28:54,713
safety officers as well. But just real quick, going through the list here.

412
00:28:54,893 –> 00:29:01,173
So, you know, the first rule is following, certainly following Jeff Cooper’s top four.

413
00:29:01,493 –> 00:29:06,533
But, you know, following the 12 golden rules, certainly. Don’t come to the range drunk.

414
00:29:06,833 –> 00:29:10,353
Know your weapons. Be at least familiar with them ahead of time.

415
00:29:10,833 –> 00:29:16,913
Ask questions. Get training and be prepared to handle those firearms safe.

416
00:29:16,913 –> 00:29:22,973
And to that point, number two is know and follow all the ranges shooting rules,

417
00:29:23,213 –> 00:29:28,853
all the rules that that particular range may have in place for itself.

418
00:29:28,933 –> 00:29:30,353
And they’re generally all the same.

419
00:29:30,473 –> 00:29:35,293
They’re generally just the basic firearm safety rules. rules,

420
00:29:35,373 –> 00:29:39,073
but they’ll also have other things like when it comes to kids,

421
00:29:39,273 –> 00:29:45,173
young children, you shouldn’t have them beyond arm’s length at all times, those sorts of things.

422
00:29:45,293 –> 00:29:47,853
So be aware of those and follow them.

423
00:29:48,213 –> 00:29:54,053
If there is a range master or a range safety officer, as Dennis and I have both

424
00:29:54,053 –> 00:29:56,553
been, listen and do what they say.

425
00:29:56,753 –> 00:30:01,173
Those guys are there to monitor, keep an eye over everything at all times and

426
00:30:01,173 –> 00:30:05,533
if they tell you to do something just follow it you can ask them questions or

427
00:30:05,533 –> 00:30:09,953
debate with them after you’re through shooting or after they’re off duty but

428
00:30:09,953 –> 00:30:13,453
in that moment in time just know that they’re trying to keep the place as safe

429
00:30:13,453 –> 00:30:15,853
as possible for you they’re not trying to be.

430
00:30:16,593 –> 00:30:21,173
Tough on you or anything like that they’re just trying to be keep the place

431
00:30:21,173 –> 00:30:27,033
safe and keep you and anybody that you’re shooting with safe absolutely and

432
00:30:27,033 –> 00:30:30,173
that’s a big one in our books right because we’ve both been there and done it.

433
00:30:30,233 –> 00:30:35,473
So, you know, we appreciate when people do abide by what we tell them.

434
00:30:35,613 –> 00:30:39,953
This is a big one for me and something that I saw all the time at the range

435
00:30:39,953 –> 00:30:42,273
and still continue to see.

436
00:30:43,433 –> 00:30:48,253
Uncase, encase your guns in the shooting, at the shooting bench,

437
00:30:48,473 –> 00:30:52,313
inside your booth, inside your aisle, whatever you want to call it,

438
00:30:52,353 –> 00:30:54,713
and not behind the safety line.

439
00:30:54,873 –> 00:30:57,913
Don’t do it at the table, at the counter, at the bench, back behind.

440
00:30:58,393 –> 00:31:01,773
I know you’re going to come in with bags. Take your bag into your booth,

441
00:31:01,893 –> 00:31:03,873
into your aisle, put it up on the deck.

442
00:31:04,768 –> 00:31:09,068
Take out whatever firearms you’re going to shoot. Put them up on the table that’s

443
00:31:09,068 –> 00:31:15,148
in the aisle in your area, in your booth, and then take your bags back to the table.

444
00:31:15,288 –> 00:31:17,768
Stop getting your weapons out back there.

445
00:31:17,908 –> 00:31:21,968
And more importantly, don’t load and unload your weapons at those tables or

446
00:31:21,968 –> 00:31:25,308
anywhere outside the booth or the aisles, for that matter.

447
00:31:25,428 –> 00:31:28,128
And I know you and I have both seen a lot of that.

448
00:31:28,728 –> 00:31:32,728
That makes me real nervous when I’m on a range and I hear a slide go forward

449
00:31:32,728 –> 00:31:36,848
and they’re not on the line. That makes me real nervous. Yeah, absolutely.

450
00:31:37,248 –> 00:31:41,128
And for that matter, when you’re shooting at the range yourself,

451
00:31:41,288 –> 00:31:45,068
you need to be aware of what’s going on behind you at all times because you

452
00:31:45,068 –> 00:31:48,288
never know when someone’s loading and unloading their firearms behind you.

453
00:31:48,308 –> 00:31:54,668
They shouldn’t be, but some ranges aren’t as strict as monitoring safe environment

454
00:31:54,668 –> 00:31:57,468
as they should. And a lot of times folks do what they do.

455
00:31:57,588 –> 00:31:59,868
And so you’re responsible for yourself ultimately.

456
00:32:00,048 –> 00:32:03,428
So take a few minutes and be aware of what’s going on behind you.

457
00:32:03,428 –> 00:32:05,228
That rule works both ways.

458
00:32:05,748 –> 00:32:09,148
This is another one. Always keep the barrel pointed downrange.

459
00:32:09,308 –> 00:32:13,308
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen barrels, muzzles, the business end

460
00:32:13,308 –> 00:32:17,788
of the barrel, flagging everybody, pointing at everybody in the range outside

461
00:32:17,788 –> 00:32:20,628
the booth, outside the aisle.

462
00:32:20,828 –> 00:32:24,968
So keep that barrel pointed downrange. Go ahead.

463
00:32:25,868 –> 00:32:29,908
I think that’s more common in new shooters. I think I’ve seen that where a new

464
00:32:29,908 –> 00:32:34,848
shooter has shot, hit the target, gets excited, turns around and starts facing

465
00:32:34,848 –> 00:32:39,028
everyone excited with the gun, flagging and waving the gun,

466
00:32:39,148 –> 00:32:43,128
finger on the trigger, and they’re not even conscious of what’s going on. Yeah.

467
00:32:43,608 –> 00:32:47,608
Yeah. No, it’s something to be aware of. You know, that finger off the trigger

468
00:32:47,608 –> 00:32:51,288
and making sure that muzzle’s pointed in a safe direction,

469
00:32:51,548 –> 00:32:56,488
meaning when you’re at the range shooting, safe direction means downrange towards

470
00:32:56,488 –> 00:33:00,948
the target, not back out towards the shop, and certainly not back out behind

471
00:33:00,948 –> 00:33:02,508
you where everyone else is.

472
00:33:02,808 –> 00:33:06,248
Always keep the gun on safe until you intend to shoot. Well,

473
00:33:06,448 –> 00:33:13,908
yes, guns have some guns have external safeties and certainly that’s extra step of precaution.

474
00:33:13,948 –> 00:33:17,328
Like we talked about earlier, they’re not 100 percent.

475
00:33:17,808 –> 00:33:23,848
The keeping the gun on safe ultimately has to do with the user and what’s between

476
00:33:23,848 –> 00:33:26,588
your ears and being cognizant that they’re following.

477
00:33:26,668 –> 00:33:28,788
I’ll say those top four rules.

478
00:33:29,777 –> 00:33:32,757
Always wear ear and eye protection when shooting.

479
00:33:32,977 –> 00:33:36,757
Well, that goes without saying. And again, most ranges are going to enforce

480
00:33:36,757 –> 00:33:38,837
that if they enforce nothing else.

481
00:33:39,717 –> 00:33:43,437
And this is one that we see violated on YouTube all the time.

482
00:33:43,597 –> 00:33:46,837
Never shoot at water or hard surfaces.

483
00:33:48,037 –> 00:33:53,017
It’s just, and this is obviously pertaining more towards outdoor ranges,

484
00:33:53,137 –> 00:33:56,377
but this is one that just happens too much.

485
00:33:56,477 –> 00:34:01,417
I see too many idiot videos on YouTube. the guy is shooting multiple rounds

486
00:34:01,417 –> 00:34:04,677
just as fast as they can pull the trigger into a body of water.

487
00:34:05,577 –> 00:34:11,217
One word, people, ricochet. Where are those bullets ending up?

488
00:34:11,817 –> 00:34:17,037
Right. So, you know, I think you would agree with me on most of these,

489
00:34:17,117 –> 00:34:22,737
but having worked on occasion for a little over a year and a half on a volunteer

490
00:34:22,737 –> 00:34:25,997
basis at a local range that you and I have shot a lot at,

491
00:34:26,517 –> 00:34:31,917
I would have to say these are the things that I’ve seen the most that I would

492
00:34:31,917 –> 00:34:36,637
caution people to be most cognizant of when they’re at the range shooting.

493
00:34:37,197 –> 00:34:39,617
Watching that muzzle, we talked about that.

494
00:34:40,737 –> 00:34:45,497
Only loading and unloading your firearms in the shooting booth,

495
00:34:45,737 –> 00:34:49,037
in the shooting stall, and not on the tables, not at the chairs,

496
00:34:49,237 –> 00:34:50,837
not behind the firing line.

497
00:34:51,357 –> 00:34:54,397
Keeping your finger off the trigger. I’ve seen that a whole lot.

498
00:34:54,397 –> 00:34:57,657
I was actually not working as an RSO.

499
00:34:57,917 –> 00:35:02,337
I was there shooting with another buddy of mine one day and was back at a table

500
00:35:02,337 –> 00:35:05,357
loading my magazine to shoot.

501
00:35:05,537 –> 00:35:10,077
And I had a woman approach me. She came straight out of her booth,

502
00:35:10,237 –> 00:35:11,557
her and her boyfriend or husband.

503
00:35:11,677 –> 00:35:14,297
I don’t remember which. It doesn’t matter. There were new shooters.

504
00:35:14,677 –> 00:35:19,557
I think had gotten a Groupon deal or something. And she came out of the booth

505
00:35:19,557 –> 00:35:27,637
with a loaded HK pistol with her finger on the trigger headed straight towards me. And…

506
00:35:28,382 –> 00:35:35,022
I came close to having a diamond ring on my hand when she did that because I

507
00:35:35,022 –> 00:35:36,782
had no idea what her intent was.

508
00:35:38,022 –> 00:35:42,162
But she didn’t know how to put the gun on safe because her and her husband wanted

509
00:35:42,162 –> 00:35:44,682
to take a break. She was quote unquote done shooting.

510
00:35:44,802 –> 00:35:48,182
And she just came out of the booth with a loaded gun and her finger on the trigger

511
00:35:48,182 –> 00:35:51,502
pointed, you know, heading, making a beeline towards me.

512
00:35:51,962 –> 00:35:57,602
And so I made eye contact with her without even looking. I reached down,

513
00:35:57,662 –> 00:36:00,902
I took the firearm out of her hand, and I walked her back in the booth,

514
00:36:01,062 –> 00:36:04,682
and I gave her explicit instructions not to ever do that again.

515
00:36:04,802 –> 00:36:10,282
And I showed her how to operate the firearm on a basic level and wished them

516
00:36:10,282 –> 00:36:12,822
well, and hopefully they made it home safe.

517
00:36:12,962 –> 00:36:16,942
But keeping your finger off the trigger as well as being aware of where that

518
00:36:16,942 –> 00:36:18,142
muzzle’s pointing is key.

519
00:36:18,702 –> 00:36:23,582
And, you know, as a range safety officer, what we say goes.

520
00:36:23,862 –> 00:36:29,142
And if you don’t like it, you can always leave. You’re not above following the basic safety rules.

521
00:36:29,322 –> 00:36:34,222
So I just wanted to add that to the end of the range safety discussion.

522
00:36:34,622 –> 00:36:35,982
You got anything to add to that?

523
00:36:36,622 –> 00:36:41,302
I think I remember you telling me a story also about a gentleman that was taking

524
00:36:41,302 –> 00:36:46,242
his weapon out of the case behind the fire line on the bench and wasn’t sure

525
00:36:46,242 –> 00:36:51,022
if he had a round in the weapon and pulled the trigger and ended up having a

526
00:36:51,022 –> 00:36:52,762
round in the weapon and it went off.

527
00:36:52,922 –> 00:36:57,842
I think you told me he shot his girlfriend’s purse or something and went into the wall. Yeah.

528
00:36:57,942 –> 00:37:03,502
The guy, quote unquote, could not remember if the pistol was loaded or not.

529
00:37:03,542 –> 00:37:08,282
And to test whether or not it was loaded, he just decided that it was best if

530
00:37:08,282 –> 00:37:10,502
he pulled the trigger to see.

531
00:37:10,922 –> 00:37:16,722
And when he did, fortunately, the barrel, and I don’t think because he was being

532
00:37:16,722 –> 00:37:19,742
overly cautious, I just think it was luck.

533
00:37:19,742 –> 00:37:24,422
But fortunately, he was not pointing the barrel at his two friends that were

534
00:37:24,422 –> 00:37:28,822
with him, and it wound up shooting one of his friend’s purses,

535
00:37:28,842 –> 00:37:31,602
her purse, and it went into the wall.

536
00:37:31,802 –> 00:37:37,602
So she lost a perfectly good leather purse, but that’s better than one of the

537
00:37:37,602 –> 00:37:39,162
three of them getting hurt, I suppose.

538
00:37:39,382 –> 00:37:45,102
But yeah, see all kinds of nonsense, working a range. So it’s important that we follow these rules.

539
00:37:45,342 –> 00:37:47,682
I think it’s safe to say.

540
00:37:50,542 –> 00:37:53,742
So i’m not a hunter i don’t hunt i haven’t

541
00:37:53,742 –> 00:37:56,662
shot and killed any animals since

542
00:37:56,662 –> 00:38:00,622
i was a kid i used to hunt when i was younger but went a different way but i

543
00:38:00,622 –> 00:38:04,722
think it’s important we cover the topic of hunting safety and i know you hunt

544
00:38:04,722 –> 00:38:10,602
some so just to breeze through these and again number one is following those

545
00:38:10,602 –> 00:38:14,282
top safety rules i think those set you up mostly for success us.

546
00:38:14,702 –> 00:38:18,262
I think this is a good one, especially in the spirit of being an RSO.

547
00:38:18,442 –> 00:38:25,342
When hunting in a group, always pick one or more people to act as a safety officer for that trip.

548
00:38:26,078 –> 00:38:29,438
And I think that’s an excellent idea. Put somebody in charge of safety.

549
00:38:29,518 –> 00:38:33,078
Make sure they’re overseeing what everyone’s doing. Make sure no one’s pointing

550
00:38:33,078 –> 00:38:37,678
the barrel at their buddy accidentally or just apathetically.

551
00:38:37,798 –> 00:38:42,518
I think apathy plays as much of a role as not paying attention.

552
00:38:43,538 –> 00:38:47,958
I agree. I’ve been on some trips, in particular, quail hunting.

553
00:38:48,238 –> 00:38:52,878
An open field, four or five guys walking the lane and, you know,

554
00:38:52,898 –> 00:38:54,478
the dog flushing the birds.

555
00:38:54,518 –> 00:38:59,198
And, you know, for us, luckily we did follow this rule and someone was standing

556
00:38:59,198 –> 00:39:00,538
behind us. He wasn’t engaging.

557
00:39:00,658 –> 00:39:03,058
He was watching to make sure everyone else was being safe.

558
00:39:03,398 –> 00:39:07,178
And a lot of times you get someone that’ll fly, come across their lane,

559
00:39:07,218 –> 00:39:10,998
right? Instead of staying in their sector of fire. And that’s important.

560
00:39:11,398 –> 00:39:17,298
So, you know, one of my rules is, I typically won’t hunt with people I’m not

561
00:39:17,298 –> 00:39:18,998
familiar with or know, right?

562
00:39:19,298 –> 00:39:22,198
To go hunt with, But like, you know, if someone said, hey, you want to go hunt

563
00:39:22,198 –> 00:39:26,298
with me and I’m not familiar with how they are safety-wise, right,

564
00:39:26,358 –> 00:39:28,658
I’m very reluctant in doing so.

565
00:39:29,058 –> 00:39:32,198
Yeah, it’s probably a good personal policy to have.

566
00:39:32,738 –> 00:39:39,158
And you mentioned this, and that segues into another rule that’s important is,

567
00:39:39,298 –> 00:39:44,218
you know, when you’re hunting, especially in groups of two or more,

568
00:39:44,378 –> 00:39:47,918
you need to know where everyone is out in the range, out in the field.

569
00:39:47,918 –> 00:39:51,698
And so it’s important that you communicate where you’re going,

570
00:39:51,898 –> 00:39:56,398
where you are, and you’re sure not to aim in anyone’s direction, right?

571
00:39:56,498 –> 00:40:00,498
That can save a lot of heartache because you don’t want to be shooting across

572
00:40:00,498 –> 00:40:05,478
the field where your buddy is and him be shooting back across the field in your direction.

573
00:40:05,598 –> 00:40:09,258
So it’s important you communicate that, you stay where you say you’re going

574
00:40:09,258 –> 00:40:14,258
to be, and if you do move, you communicate that and you’re not shooting in a

575
00:40:14,258 –> 00:40:17,238
direction where you know or think your buddies may be.

576
00:40:17,958 –> 00:40:22,398
Well, a good way of doing that too, again, going out to the field and especially

577
00:40:22,398 –> 00:40:25,898
in a field that I’ve not been in. I’ve been in South Georgia hunting pig before.

578
00:40:25,978 –> 00:40:30,938
And, you know, I like to go out the day before the day, the morning of early

579
00:40:30,938 –> 00:40:34,858
and walk where we’re going to go and, you know, establish where everyone’s going

580
00:40:34,858 –> 00:40:39,138
to be set up at. So I know my zone of fire and everyone else’s zone of fire.

581
00:40:39,278 –> 00:40:43,538
So we’re not, like you mentioned, not firing back into an area where we know someone may be.

582
00:40:43,898 –> 00:40:47,758
And that’s very important, right? So, again, it’s important to be familiar with

583
00:40:47,758 –> 00:40:49,218
the terrain that you’re going to be hunting in.

584
00:40:49,558 –> 00:40:54,418
Yeah, that’s a very good point. And I think it’s awesome that you go out and

585
00:40:54,418 –> 00:40:59,478
do a pre-check of the area and get familiar with it ahead of time because that just helps.

586
00:41:00,198 –> 00:41:04,738
This is where the keeping your gun on safe rule really comes in.

587
00:41:04,738 –> 00:41:08,938
I think hunting is especially important, especially when you’re in groups and

588
00:41:08,938 –> 00:41:13,318
you might be out there trudging through the woods together. Keep your firearms on safe.

589
00:41:13,578 –> 00:41:15,558
Most hunting rifles that I’m

590
00:41:15,558 –> 00:41:19,878
aware of all have external safeties and while nothing’s a hundred percent.

591
00:41:21,153 –> 00:41:25,613
Having that firearm unsafe, it’s not a tactical situation.

592
00:41:26,173 –> 00:41:29,613
Bambi’s not going to be jumping out to mug you from behind a tree.

593
00:41:30,113 –> 00:41:35,253
You’re not trying to go on a split seconds notice.

594
00:41:35,433 –> 00:41:40,533
You’ve got time to flip that safety off when the time does come to shoot.

595
00:41:40,733 –> 00:41:43,953
It’s not like you’re shooting a whole lot when you’re out hunting anyway.

596
00:41:44,073 –> 00:41:48,473
You’re waiting to make a kill shot. You’re not shooting 20, 30 rounds,

597
00:41:48,733 –> 00:41:53,473
you know, a box of 50 downrange to target practice like you are at the range.

598
00:41:53,633 –> 00:41:57,853
You’re shooting sometimes nothing, no shots.

599
00:41:58,053 –> 00:42:03,633
So keeping that gun on safe, the safety engaged until you need it is important

600
00:42:03,633 –> 00:42:04,713
when you’re out hunting.

601
00:42:05,133 –> 00:42:10,213
I agree. I definitely agree. And to be honest with you, when I’m hunting and

602
00:42:10,213 –> 00:42:13,913
I’m in a hide and I have a bolt-action rifle, a lot of times I don’t even chamber

603
00:42:13,913 –> 00:42:15,353
a round until I’m ready to fire.

604
00:42:16,033 –> 00:42:19,613
Yeah, good policy to have. Again, there’s no urgency.

605
00:42:20,033 –> 00:42:24,833
It’s not tactical. It’s not self-defense. It’s not concealed carry.

606
00:42:25,653 –> 00:42:30,333
It’s okay if you don’t chamber that round until you come into that field of

607
00:42:30,333 –> 00:42:36,113
big, beautiful bucks or whatever, or hogs, whatever it is you’re trying to kill.

608
00:42:36,493 –> 00:42:39,013
Some of these are still pretty good.

609
00:42:39,633 –> 00:42:43,893
Never climb over anything with a loaded gun in your hand or on your person.

610
00:42:44,093 –> 00:42:49,393
You know, if you’re by yourself, just go ahead and put your rifle through to

611
00:42:49,393 –> 00:42:52,913
the other side on the ground or prop it up on the fence.

612
00:42:52,973 –> 00:42:56,093
Again, you want to make sure it’s on safe.

613
00:42:57,253 –> 00:42:59,353
There may not even be a round chambered,

614
00:42:59,353 –> 00:43:02,113
doesn’t really need to be a round chambered when you’re hunting.

615
00:43:02,393 –> 00:43:07,153
If you’re with a partner, hold their firearm for them, let them go over the

616
00:43:07,153 –> 00:43:09,553
fence or under the fence, whatever through the fence,

617
00:43:09,893 –> 00:43:17,613
hand them their firearm and then hand them your firearm and then you go through that fence.

618
00:43:18,073 –> 00:43:23,353
Don’t try going through a fence or climbing a tree into your tree stand with a loaded weapon.

619
00:43:23,353 –> 00:43:28,033
And so I would extend this to say that when you’re going up into your tree stand,

620
00:43:28,273 –> 00:43:33,893
don’t don’t hoist your firearm up loaded, unload it, put it on safe,

621
00:43:34,113 –> 00:43:35,873
then bring it up with you. Right.

622
00:43:35,973 –> 00:43:40,033
But don’t carry it on your back loaded and certainly don’t cross or go through

623
00:43:40,033 –> 00:43:42,533
or under a fence with with your firearm.

624
00:43:42,693 –> 00:43:44,893
Get it to the other side and then go through. room.

625
00:43:45,493 –> 00:43:50,593
Absolutely. You should, you should not be climbing any type of obstacle out

626
00:43:50,593 –> 00:43:52,993
in the field with a loaded weapon around in the chamber.

627
00:43:53,453 –> 00:43:59,193
Right. So, you know, I don’t think I’ve experienced that now.

628
00:43:59,273 –> 00:44:03,733
I’ve, you know, climbed up in the heights before and I make sure, you know.

629
00:44:04,393 –> 00:44:09,993
All according to what weapon I may have at the time, if it’s an assault rifle I may have with

630
00:44:10,073 –> 00:44:13,473
me for whatever reason you know magazines out both

631
00:44:13,473 –> 00:44:16,313
blocks of the rear and you know get where

632
00:44:16,313 –> 00:44:19,113
i need to go and then when i get up there you know

633
00:44:19,113 –> 00:44:21,713
usually any good hunter is going to be in

634
00:44:21,713 –> 00:44:24,773
the hide well before he thinks the game’s coming so he

635
00:44:24,773 –> 00:44:28,193
can make as much noise as he needs but once he’s settled in you know some time

636
00:44:28,193 –> 00:44:32,693
goes by you know it really won’t make a difference but the last thing you want

637
00:44:32,693 –> 00:44:38,013
to do is climb over friends climb up into a hide with the with a round in the

638
00:44:38,013 –> 00:44:41,533
chamber because just because it’s unsafe if the weapon happens to fall does

639
00:44:41,533 –> 00:44:42,973
not mean it’s not going to go off.

640
00:44:44,182 –> 00:44:48,642
Absolutely. And there’s been some accidental discharges, we know,

641
00:44:48,762 –> 00:44:51,062
with firearms, even with safeties on.

642
00:44:51,202 –> 00:44:57,302
That firing pin gets released and hits that primer and it doesn’t even necessarily

643
00:44:57,302 –> 00:44:59,302
require the trigger to be pulled.

644
00:45:00,702 –> 00:45:05,202
Old going back and we’ve talked about this one previously but you know if you trip or fall,

645
00:45:05,702 –> 00:45:10,862
check your weapon make sure it’s still in good working condition and most importantly

646
00:45:10,862 –> 00:45:16,922
make sure that barrel is free of obstructions if by chance it were clogged and

647
00:45:16,922 –> 00:45:19,962
you weren’t paying attention and were to pull the trigger because you thought

648
00:45:19,962 –> 00:45:24,902
you had the shot of your life on that 20 point buck,

649
00:45:25,122 –> 00:45:31,682
and your barrel was clogged of mud or whatever, rocks, and you pulled the trigger,

650
00:45:31,882 –> 00:45:33,622
you’d have a bad day on your hand.

651
00:45:33,782 –> 00:45:37,202
It is likely that gun’s going to blow up, the barrel’s going to blow up,

652
00:45:37,282 –> 00:45:44,842
and at very least, scare you to death, probably hurt you pretty bad, and it could kill you.

653
00:45:44,942 –> 00:45:50,762
So if you do fall, first of all, be situationally aware, pay attention,

654
00:45:51,082 –> 00:45:54,182
try to reduce your clumsiness.

655
00:45:54,762 –> 00:46:01,042
But if you do fall, don’t just assume your firearm’s fine, especially if you know you did drop it.

656
00:46:01,082 –> 00:46:04,342
Pick it up, inspect it, make sure it’s in good working order.

657
00:46:04,462 –> 00:46:07,862
But most importantly, make sure that barrel is free of obstruction.

658
00:46:08,982 –> 00:46:13,662
Absolutely. You know, hunting, I don’t think I’ve gone through terrain or had

659
00:46:13,662 –> 00:46:20,722
a situation where I had a chance of getting debris or anything down my barrel.

660
00:46:20,782 –> 00:46:25,022
I’m not saying that it can’t happen, but in the service, being in the field,

661
00:46:25,142 –> 00:46:27,182
that happened quite often.

662
00:46:27,602 –> 00:46:35,042
It was second nature for us to clear the weapon and make sure that the bore

663
00:46:35,042 –> 00:46:37,342
was clear before we fired.

664
00:46:38,302 –> 00:46:44,122
A lot of times we had a round in the chamber, so empty the chamber, drop the magazine,

665
00:46:45,242 –> 00:46:50,462
knock the weapon, check the bore, and reload before you before you engage because

666
00:46:50,462 –> 00:46:54,442
you’re right if you don’t do that and you pull the trigger you’re more apt to

667
00:46:54,442 –> 00:47:00,002
hurt yourself and the folks around you absolutely and so you know if you are

668
00:47:00,002 –> 00:47:04,662
super clumsy or you know accidents do happen you trip on that slippery route.

669
00:47:06,062 –> 00:47:12,162
Whatever it is that caused you maybe to fall down be sure you’re in control of that weapon,

670
00:47:13,313 –> 00:47:19,833
Be sure that that barrel remains pointing in a safe direction and not towards

671
00:47:19,833 –> 00:47:21,933
your buddy or anything you don’t want to shoot.

672
00:47:23,253 –> 00:47:28,673
To your point, if you’re carrying it unloaded, then it’s less of an issue.

673
00:47:28,933 –> 00:47:33,333
And if it’s on safe, that’s even better. But at the end of the day,

674
00:47:33,573 –> 00:47:37,533
a gun barrel only needs to be pointing in a safe direction.

675
00:47:37,873 –> 00:47:40,873
And so when you fall, it’s important.

676
00:47:40,873 –> 00:47:44,253
It’s just like if you’re carrying an axe, you know, I learned in the Boy Scouts,

677
00:47:44,253 –> 00:47:48,673
when you’re carrying an axe and you trip and fall, you need to be aware of where

678
00:47:48,673 –> 00:47:53,473
that axe blade is and, you know, pay attention to that at all times because

679
00:47:53,473 –> 00:47:55,533
you don’t want to wind up falling on the axe blade.

680
00:47:55,633 –> 00:47:57,813
Well, the same applies to the guns, right?

681
00:47:57,953 –> 00:48:01,873
You don’t want to fall and the barrel of the gun wind up pointing straight at your buddy’s head.

682
00:48:03,313 –> 00:48:09,153
And the last one is, you know, the short version is, is when in doubt, don’t take the shot.

683
00:48:09,153 –> 00:48:11,853
And you know this goes back to the

684
00:48:11,853 –> 00:48:14,853
basic rules be sure of your target and what’s beyond

685
00:48:14,853 –> 00:48:17,493
it you know if you’re not sure your buddy’s not on the

686
00:48:17,493 –> 00:48:20,193
field across from the 20 point buck that you’re

687
00:48:20,193 –> 00:48:23,033
trying to take the shot at then you don’t need to be taking the shot

688
00:48:23,033 –> 00:48:25,753
i think you talked about a story when you

689
00:48:25,753 –> 00:48:28,833
were hunting once where you weren’t you you heard and

690
00:48:28,833 –> 00:48:31,693
you were pretty sure there was something out ahead of you but

691
00:48:31,693 –> 00:48:34,713
because you couldn’t see clearly what it was you

692
00:48:34,713 –> 00:48:37,453
weren’t going to just shoot and so i think

693
00:48:37,453 –> 00:48:40,533
that’s a important to remember when you’re out hunting too

694
00:48:40,533 –> 00:48:43,333
you if you don’t know what you’re shooting at

695
00:48:43,333 –> 00:48:49,313
or you are are you’re not sure what’s beyond what you’re shooting at or if you

696
00:48:49,313 –> 00:48:54,973
know that something that’s beyond what you’re shooting at shouldn’t get shot

697
00:48:54,973 –> 00:49:00,493
then you shouldn’t take the shot and that’s uh oh yeah the story was we We were

698
00:49:00,493 –> 00:49:02,133
out pig hunting, and, you know,

699
00:49:02,273 –> 00:49:05,033
we’re out down by the 20,

700
00:49:05,253 –> 00:49:08,553
and, you know, there shouldn’t be anything else out there other than, you know, game.

701
00:49:08,693 –> 00:49:13,613
And it was dusk, and I saw several figures come through my scope,

702
00:49:13,633 –> 00:49:17,953
and I had to be pig, but I wasn’t 100% sure.

703
00:49:18,573 –> 00:49:22,973
And I did not take the shot until my buddy was able to.

704
00:49:23,093 –> 00:49:26,033
It just so happened he was walking up and had a green light,

705
00:49:26,093 –> 00:49:29,233
and he was able to illuminate the area, and then I took the shot,

706
00:49:29,353 –> 00:49:31,893
right? Right. And, you know, most hunters won’t do that.

707
00:49:31,953 –> 00:49:34,673
I can tell you that right now. They probably would have taken that shot,

708
00:49:34,773 –> 00:49:36,293
but I’m just a little bit more cautious.

709
00:49:36,333 –> 00:49:42,233
You know, everything told me that 95 percent sure is probably,

710
00:49:42,333 –> 00:49:45,533
you know, something I could do that some wild pig or something.

711
00:49:45,593 –> 00:49:49,013
But in my gut, I just could not pull that trigger. Yeah.

712
00:49:49,453 –> 00:49:51,193
Yeah. It’s better safe than sorry.

713
00:49:52,050 –> 00:49:56,430
So this next topic I think is important because we’re all talking about guns.

714
00:49:56,490 –> 00:49:59,330
Well, you got to get a gun at some point, so you got to go look at them.

715
00:49:59,370 –> 00:50:04,510
You’re hopefully going to buy one or n number of firearms before it’s over with.

716
00:50:05,030 –> 00:50:08,070
I have a couple myself. I’ve done this a few times.

717
00:50:08,810 –> 00:50:14,490
Gun safety is just as important at the gun shop as it is anywhere else.

718
00:50:14,610 –> 00:50:18,890
And as a matter of fact, it’s kind of a fine line between safety and etiquette

719
00:50:18,890 –> 00:50:20,030
because Because everyone in that

720
00:50:20,030 –> 00:50:24,730
shop potentially stands in the way of you really trying out that weapon.

721
00:50:25,290 –> 00:50:31,350
And so you’ve got to be very conscientious about where you’re pointing a weapon in the gun shop,

722
00:50:31,570 –> 00:50:37,550
being sure that you’re not pointing the muzzle at someone when you’re checking

723
00:50:37,550 –> 00:50:41,090
it out, especially when you’re dry firing and testing out the trigger.

724
00:50:41,090 –> 00:50:47,950
And you also want to show some etiquette, have some respect for the persons

725
00:50:47,950 –> 00:50:50,070
working behind the counter as well.

726
00:50:50,190 –> 00:50:55,290
So this is my list of gun safety rules for the gun shop.

727
00:50:55,470 –> 00:51:02,090
And, of course, the top four rules apply always because even an unloaded gun

728
00:51:02,090 –> 00:51:04,530
should be treated as though it was loaded.

729
00:51:04,810 –> 00:51:10,930
First of all, make sure any firearm that you’re going to be handling in a gun shop is empty.

730
00:51:11,090 –> 00:51:15,550
If it’s a revolver, you know, you’re going to be opening up the cylinder,

731
00:51:15,670 –> 00:51:17,770
making sure there’s no rounds in the cylinder.

732
00:51:17,790 –> 00:51:21,630
If it’s a semi-automatic, you’re going to drop the magazine or at least at the

733
00:51:21,630 –> 00:51:26,250
very least pull the slide back and ensure the magazine doesn’t have any rounds

734
00:51:26,250 –> 00:51:28,070
and that there’s no rounds in the chamber.

735
00:51:28,290 –> 00:51:32,330
If it’s a rifle, you’re going to make sure there’s no rounds in the chamber

736
00:51:32,330 –> 00:51:35,570
and or the magazines out of it as well.

737
00:51:35,570 –> 00:51:41,330
Well, and, you know, as we were talking about earlier, and I joke about often

738
00:51:41,330 –> 00:51:43,350
redundancy is your friend.

739
00:51:43,810 –> 00:51:48,430
I said that before. And so, you know, there’s going to be a lot of handling

740
00:51:48,430 –> 00:51:51,530
of firearms back and forth between people in a gun shop.

741
00:51:51,770 –> 00:51:54,930
The person behind the counter is going to hand you a gun.

742
00:51:55,490 –> 00:51:59,110
You may hand the you’re going to hand the gun back to the person behind the

743
00:51:59,110 –> 00:52:03,450
counter. But before that, you may pass the gun off to your buddy that’s shopping

744
00:52:03,450 –> 00:52:07,550
with you or looking with you, and then he’s going to give it either back to

745
00:52:07,550 –> 00:52:09,510
you or back to the person behind the counter.

746
00:52:09,630 –> 00:52:15,210
And so this is where redundancy, this is one area where redundancy comes in, and it’s important.

747
00:52:15,410 –> 00:52:20,090
So what you should expect as a shopper when you go into a gun shop and you want

748
00:52:20,090 –> 00:52:24,330
to look at pistols, rifles, whatever, is that person behind the counter should

749
00:52:24,330 –> 00:52:26,090
ensure that that weapon is clear.

750
00:52:26,090 –> 00:52:28,710
They’re going to open the bolt, they’re going to pull back the slide,

751
00:52:28,910 –> 00:52:33,410
they’re going to open up the cylinder and make sure there’s no ammunition in

752
00:52:33,410 –> 00:52:35,850
that gun before they hand it off to you.

753
00:52:36,450 –> 00:52:42,130
When you get that gun, you’re going to make sure that you’re cognizant of where

754
00:52:42,130 –> 00:52:46,830
that barrel is, where that muzzle is at all times, and that you don’t flag anyone.

755
00:52:46,990 –> 00:52:50,450
And by flagging, we mean pointing that gun at anyone. Right.

756
00:52:50,907 –> 00:52:56,087
And, you know, that ties over to the trigger, right?

757
00:52:56,247 –> 00:53:00,407
A lot of times you want to test the trigger pull on a firearm to see what it

758
00:53:00,407 –> 00:53:04,027
feels like, to see what the travel is, to see what the reset is,

759
00:53:04,247 –> 00:53:09,267
to see what it feels like when it goes click, when the firing pin goes click,

760
00:53:09,327 –> 00:53:12,767
and then what the reset feels like when you let it go again.

761
00:53:12,767 –> 00:53:18,627
Again, you need to make especially sure of where that muzzle is and ensure you’re

762
00:53:18,627 –> 00:53:22,207
not pointing at anything or anyone, especially in the gun shop,

763
00:53:22,347 –> 00:53:25,027
that you’re not wanting to shoot.

764
00:53:25,167 –> 00:53:29,227
Plus, other people in the shop never appreciate it when you point a gun at them.

765
00:53:29,367 –> 00:53:33,987
The redundancy comes in because when I pass that firearm either back to the

766
00:53:33,987 –> 00:53:38,547
person behind the counter or to my buddy, I’m going to check even though I quote

767
00:53:38,547 –> 00:53:43,067
unquote know that weapon’s unloaded, I’m going to check, and I always do,

768
00:53:43,227 –> 00:53:48,687
I’m going to check briefly to see and make sure that firearm still is unloaded

769
00:53:48,687 –> 00:53:50,827
before I pass it to the next person.

770
00:53:51,007 –> 00:53:55,447
And even though we know that weapon’s unloaded, it’s just courtesy.

771
00:53:56,107 –> 00:54:00,447
It’s just courtesy. They’ve done it for you. You do it to them to show them

772
00:54:00,447 –> 00:54:04,147
that you’re conscientious and that you’re safety-oriented,

773
00:54:04,147 –> 00:54:07,347
you’re safety minded and that’s where the redundancy

774
00:54:07,347 –> 00:54:10,967
comes in and then the last one i’m gonna say and

775
00:54:10,967 –> 00:54:15,827
then you can add what you want dennis is never unholster your firearm in a gun

776
00:54:15,827 –> 00:54:19,587
shop unless you’ve gotten permission you’ve asked and gotten permission to do

777
00:54:19,587 –> 00:54:24,887
so they kind of take offense to that and you may not have the sort of response

778
00:54:24,887 –> 00:54:30,347
that you like if you were to unholster your firearm without asking first.

779
00:54:31,607 –> 00:54:36,887
I agree. And a lot of gun stores now have that in there, that all firearms need

780
00:54:36,887 –> 00:54:43,287
to be holstered, right, or in some sort of container or something when entering the store.

781
00:54:43,427 –> 00:54:46,847
And I think that just puts everyone at a peace of mind, right,

782
00:54:46,927 –> 00:54:50,727
rather than someone coming in with a pistol in their hand.

783
00:54:50,807 –> 00:54:56,427
I think you might be greeted differently if you do that. Yeah. Bad news.

784
00:54:58,107 –> 00:54:59,947
And so, you know,

785
00:55:00,972 –> 00:55:05,412
That’s a short list. Of course, you’re following all gun safety rules at all

786
00:55:05,412 –> 00:55:07,532
times, especially those four, right?

787
00:55:07,652 –> 00:55:11,432
But those are kind of the ones that pop into my head when I’m in a gun shop

788
00:55:11,432 –> 00:55:12,652
and I’m looking at weapons.

789
00:55:12,812 –> 00:55:17,212
But, you know, part of that is the flip side of the coin, right?

790
00:55:17,512 –> 00:55:24,792
And part of gun shop safety is being aware of what others are doing around you, right?

791
00:55:24,952 –> 00:55:30,792
And And sometimes that may mean that you need to step back or forward out of

792
00:55:30,792 –> 00:55:36,292
the way of someone that’s not keeping an eye of where the muzzle of the firearm

793
00:55:36,292 –> 00:55:37,592
that they’re handling is.

794
00:55:37,892 –> 00:55:43,432
And, you know, safety is always the responsible, you know, it’s always the responsibility

795
00:55:43,432 –> 00:55:45,972
of you that it’s on both ends. Right.

796
00:55:46,072 –> 00:55:51,372
So you always need to be situationally aware and paying attention to others

797
00:55:51,372 –> 00:55:56,972
because, you know, The cat that’s up at the counter checking out the new spring-filled

798
00:55:56,972 –> 00:55:58,632
pistol. I don’t know why he’d be doing that.

799
00:55:58,712 –> 00:56:04,572
Spring-filled pistol, he may not be even aware that the muzzle of that pistol

800
00:56:04,572 –> 00:56:05,792
is pointing right at you.

801
00:56:05,852 –> 00:56:09,572
And you’re just standing at the counter eyeballing the Glocks next to him.

802
00:56:10,012 –> 00:56:15,492
So it’s your job to pay attention to that and know, hey, you’ve got the option

803
00:56:15,492 –> 00:56:19,972
to either confront him and say, hey, be mindful of the muzzle of that gun.

804
00:56:19,972 –> 00:56:25,192
Gun or, you know, just go ahead and take the effort yourself to back up out

805
00:56:25,192 –> 00:56:31,352
of the way and then maybe decide to tell, tell them to pay better attention to what they’re doing.

806
00:56:31,432 –> 00:56:34,512
But you know, the, the onus is on you at the end of the day,

807
00:56:34,552 –> 00:56:36,812
a gun safety. And so it works both ways.

808
00:56:37,452 –> 00:56:39,932
You just had to go there with spring full and clock, didn’t you?

809
00:56:42,392 –> 00:56:45,512
They’re both great guns. They really are. Yeah.

810
00:56:46,112 –> 00:56:49,832
So let’s talk about kids for a minute, Right. And we said at the beginning,

811
00:56:49,892 –> 00:56:54,252
I think I said, I know I said at the beginning of my very first podcast when

812
00:56:54,252 –> 00:56:56,012
we first talked about gun safety.

813
00:56:57,083 –> 00:57:01,983
I said, you know, the cool part, the interesting part of this discussion on

814
00:57:01,983 –> 00:57:06,443
gun safety is it applies not just to the gun community,

815
00:57:06,603 –> 00:57:12,203
but also for the gun opposition, right?

816
00:57:12,283 –> 00:57:16,423
Those that don’t want guns, those that want to limit guns, those that don’t

817
00:57:16,423 –> 00:57:17,903
have anything to do with guns.

818
00:57:18,443 –> 00:57:23,303
It applies across the board because, especially as a parent or otherwise,

819
00:57:23,683 –> 00:57:25,643
you kind of need to know what to do.

820
00:57:25,643 –> 00:57:29,923
You need to know, even if you’re not handling the firearm directly yourself,

821
00:57:30,323 –> 00:57:36,843
you kind of need to know how to go about handling them or telling someone how

822
00:57:36,843 –> 00:57:38,103
to handle them appropriately.

823
00:57:38,383 –> 00:57:42,743
So gun safety affects us all and we should all know how to do it.

824
00:57:42,803 –> 00:57:47,463
So I say that for those that may otherwise think that this doesn’t apply to

825
00:57:47,463 –> 00:57:48,603
them, but it really does.

826
00:57:48,603 –> 00:57:59,483
And so I say that because part of safe gun ownership is teaching children what to do.

827
00:57:59,643 –> 00:58:04,823
And when they get old enough, how to handle a gun safely.

828
00:58:06,383 –> 00:58:10,003
And of course, at that point, the normal gun safety rules apply.

829
00:58:10,003 –> 00:58:15,363
But what happens to really young children or children that know nothing about

830
00:58:15,363 –> 00:58:18,923
guns yet because their parents don’t have anything to do with them or maybe

831
00:58:18,923 –> 00:58:20,603
just haven’t discussed it with them yet?

832
00:58:21,023 –> 00:58:28,583
Or what happens when a family that’s not a proponent of guns has a friend stay

833
00:58:28,583 –> 00:58:32,963
over, has their children stay over at a friend’s house that maybe does have

834
00:58:32,963 –> 00:58:34,863
guns in the house? What should they do?

835
00:58:35,363 –> 00:58:38,403
What should they do? What do you tell them? and so

836
00:58:38,403 –> 00:58:41,463
you know instead of thinking through this i just

837
00:58:41,463 –> 00:58:44,423
defaulted to the nra program i think it’s fantastic

838
00:58:44,423 –> 00:58:47,343
for what it is and again if you got a kid old enough to

839
00:58:47,343 –> 00:58:50,303
be learning about guns or handling guns then it’s

840
00:58:50,303 –> 00:58:55,563
not going to apply to them but i think for super young children or for children

841
00:58:55,563 –> 00:59:01,163
who’s never gonna learn about guns directly because their parents don’t want

842
00:59:01,163 –> 00:59:05,503
anything to do with them i think this program’s great and so the nra has a program

843
00:59:05,503 –> 00:59:08,043
called eddie the eagle Have you ever heard of this before?

844
00:59:08,523 –> 00:59:14,423
Yeah. So it’s basically, well, it is three simple steps.

845
00:59:14,743 –> 00:59:21,243
Number one is stop. If a child comes across a gun, they should just stop, freeze in their tracks.

846
00:59:21,743 –> 00:59:26,863
Number two is do not touch. Whatever you do, there’s no reason for you to touch that firearm.

847
00:59:27,123 –> 00:59:30,003
You’ve seen it. You stop. You don’t touch it.

848
00:59:30,063 –> 00:59:35,623
And you go get an adult and tell them. And then hopefully they’ll know what to do.

849
00:59:36,676 –> 00:59:40,596
Well, this podcast benefits those that wouldn’t otherwise know what to do,

850
00:59:40,656 –> 00:59:44,876
because if they listen to this, then those adults that that child goes and tells

851
00:59:44,876 –> 00:59:46,696
will hopefully know what to do.

852
00:59:47,436 –> 00:59:51,296
But it’s important that they don’t touch the gun, especially if they don’t know

853
00:59:51,296 –> 00:59:53,916
what they’re doing, if they haven’t learned about firearms yet.

854
00:59:54,356 –> 01:00:01,536
And that goes for the group of kids, too, right? Because sometimes peer pressure comes into play.

855
01:00:01,816 –> 01:00:03,536
But I think that’s a pretty good program.

856
01:00:04,636 –> 01:00:08,156
Yeah, I think so. So, you know, it’s great to teach the kids,

857
01:00:08,256 –> 01:00:12,556
but I think further steps of prevention is if you know that you have children,

858
01:00:12,696 –> 01:00:18,576
especially children that are not your own, in your home and you have guns out,

859
01:00:18,756 –> 01:00:23,216
which a lot of homes do for home protection, that you put them up.

860
01:00:23,316 –> 01:00:29,316
I can tell you right now that any time I have, yes, especially when children

861
01:00:29,316 –> 01:00:34,736
are in the house, I put my guns in the safe. I don’t even want to take a chance about it.

862
01:00:34,756 –> 01:00:39,896
Whether the kid will or will not touch, I don’t care. I don’t want to take a chance.

863
01:00:41,616 –> 01:00:47,716
Of all the news stories that touch me the most is those where you hear these young kids, brothers,

864
01:00:48,356 –> 01:00:53,376
sisters, cousins, happen to come across a weapon and they shoot a family member

865
01:00:53,376 –> 01:00:56,896
because they found a gun and they want to see how it worked.

866
01:00:57,216 –> 01:01:00,876
And that could be avoided simply by locking that gun up. Right.

867
01:01:01,496 –> 01:01:05,896
Good gun ownership. I think that’s I think that’s the priority there first.

868
01:01:06,516 –> 01:01:10,676
And then second, teaching the children about, you know, how to what to do if

869
01:01:10,676 –> 01:01:14,376
they see a gun. Yeah, that’s an excellent point.

870
01:01:14,496 –> 01:01:19,256
You know, that’s kind of like there’s three steps for the kids to follow.

871
01:01:19,356 –> 01:01:23,216
There’s really one step in that scenario for the adults to follow.

872
01:01:23,356 –> 01:01:25,056
And that’s when kids are around.

873
01:01:25,216 –> 01:01:30,656
Keep your guns locked up. And that would prevent all kinds of all kinds of things.

874
01:01:30,656 –> 01:01:34,256
So while we’re on the subject of kids and guns, a lot of times,

875
01:01:34,356 –> 01:01:40,716
more often than not, the question comes up, well, when should I talk to my kids?

876
01:01:41,156 –> 01:01:46,836
And there’s not a particular age to begin that discussion, I don’t think.

877
01:01:46,836 –> 01:01:49,416
I think parents know their children best.

878
01:01:49,496 –> 01:01:56,376
If they’re going to introduce guns to their children, they know best likely when they can do that.

879
01:01:56,476 –> 01:02:01,796
Hopefully the child is showing some signs of maturity and willingness to follow

880
01:02:01,796 –> 01:02:03,916
rules and instructions.

881
01:02:04,316 –> 01:02:07,936
But beyond that, it’s really up to the parents to figure out what’s best.

882
01:02:08,216 –> 01:02:10,396
But to your point again, yeah.

883
01:02:11,470 –> 01:02:17,090
Locking up your firearms is the go-to safety rule to follow for adults when

884
01:02:17,090 –> 01:02:18,030
there’s children around.

885
01:02:18,450 –> 01:02:25,970
Yeah, I agree. And I think that age can be a guideline on determining when it’s

886
01:02:25,970 –> 01:02:30,130
best to introduce your child to a gun if that’s what you intend to do.

887
01:02:30,130 –> 01:02:33,510
But I think you hit it on the nose when you said that maturity,

888
01:02:33,710 –> 01:02:38,270
I think maturity plays a big role because I’ve seen some nine-year-olds that

889
01:02:38,270 –> 01:02:43,510
are a lot, you know, mature and willing to take instruction and, you know, understand.

890
01:02:43,590 –> 01:02:46,890
And I’ve seen 14-year-olds, 15-year-olds, not so much.

891
01:02:47,070 –> 01:02:50,010
Yeah. You know, I wouldn’t trust them with a gun. Right.

892
01:02:50,450 –> 01:02:57,110
I think the first time that I ever shot, I know it was with my dad and my mom’s dad, my granddad.

893
01:02:57,430 –> 01:03:01,870
I think I was nine years old was the first time I shot.

894
01:03:01,910 –> 01:03:05,830
I think I shot 22s and a 12 gauge, believe it or not.

895
01:03:08,510 –> 01:03:12,750
That’s funny because although I told you I was raised in the South Bronx,

896
01:03:12,850 –> 01:03:17,130
the first time I shot a weapon was in the Marine Corps. And it was like a drug to me.

897
01:03:18,070 –> 01:03:22,750
Yeah. Once I got into it, I was like, oh, I have to have this.

898
01:03:22,930 –> 01:03:25,290
It’s a lot of fun. It’s not all

899
01:03:25,290 –> 01:03:31,950
about self-defense and tactical this and tactical that and use for intent.

900
01:03:32,430 –> 01:03:37,750
It’s a lot of fun. I find it to be stress relieving. It’s a lot of fun to shoot

901
01:03:37,750 –> 01:03:39,290
targets and challenge yourself.

902
01:03:39,710 –> 01:03:42,410
There’s an element of bonding.

903
01:03:43,130 –> 01:03:48,090
I think you and I have a great time shooting. I know as an RSO,

904
01:03:48,290 –> 01:03:53,830
I actually enjoyed watching other people shoot and enjoy the activity,

905
01:03:54,130 –> 01:03:55,750
the sport, whatever you want to call it.

906
01:03:56,490 –> 01:04:03,590
Yeah, it could be a drug of sorts. It can be addictive for sure.

907
01:04:03,770 –> 01:04:09,310
I mean, even today, although we’re not actively RSOing, I find myself stepping

908
01:04:09,310 –> 01:04:12,750
back from the line and kind of observing what’s going on with other folks.

909
01:04:12,750 –> 01:04:15,510
And, you know, talking with people about guns and give them some pointers.

910
01:04:15,650 –> 01:04:18,630
And, you know, what people are doing is it’s a community.

911
01:04:18,850 –> 01:04:22,270
Yeah, it is a community. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

912
01:04:22,970 –> 01:04:28,210
And we want to make it a safe community. Just a random safety rule.

913
01:04:28,390 –> 01:04:32,050
I don’t know if you want to call it a safety rule. I just call it a safety no-no.

914
01:04:32,370 –> 01:04:37,470
And, you know, we’ve even seen and heard some high-ranking political figures

915
01:04:37,470 –> 01:04:41,730
that clearly don’t know what they’re talking about even offer it as a suggestion.

916
01:04:41,730 –> 01:04:47,270
And that’s warning shots or just shooting guns into the air and we see a lot of.

917
01:04:48,568 –> 01:04:54,948
Let’s say third world groups, individuals shooting guns wildly into the air

918
01:04:54,948 –> 01:04:59,088
at celebration of weddings and parties or just intimidation tactics.

919
01:04:59,348 –> 01:05:04,028
And again, we’ve had high ranking political officials here stateside suggest

920
01:05:04,028 –> 01:05:08,748
that to scare off bad guys, you just fire a shot in the air,

921
01:05:08,828 –> 01:05:10,188
a warning shot off in the air.

922
01:05:10,248 –> 01:05:13,948
Well, warning shots are generally illegal.

923
01:05:17,248 –> 01:05:20,548
So that they’re more probably

924
01:05:20,548 –> 01:05:23,688
more often than not ineffective of scaring off

925
01:05:23,688 –> 01:05:27,368
any bad guy and serving any such purpose but the

926
01:05:27,368 –> 01:05:32,448
most important reason if the law wasn’t enough to keep you from doing it is

927
01:05:32,448 –> 01:05:37,168
that everything that goes up most must come down and there’s actually been a

928
01:05:37,168 –> 01:05:42,168
lot of people killed from stray bullets you know not knowing what’s beyond your

929
01:05:42,168 –> 01:05:44,808
target and shooting anyway can get kids.

930
01:05:45,028 –> 01:05:47,848
We’ve seen kids killed in the news, right?

931
01:05:49,068 –> 01:05:53,808
We’ve heard stories of that, but you know, if you shoot a bullet or a bunch

932
01:05:53,808 –> 01:05:56,528
of buckshot in the air, it’s got to come down.

933
01:05:57,328 –> 01:06:02,228
And I’m not going to debate trajectory and velocity of buckshot versus lead

934
01:06:02,228 –> 01:06:07,288
bullets coming back down after having fired a warning shot, but those bullets

935
01:06:07,288 –> 01:06:08,468
have to come down somewhere.

936
01:06:08,548 –> 01:06:12,108
And when they do, they’re going to get, they’re going to hit and they’re going to hit hard.

937
01:06:12,928 –> 01:06:16,248
And I was always amazed because I shot a lot of .22 growing up,

938
01:06:16,248 –> 01:06:17,808
target practice and hunting.

939
01:06:18,128 –> 01:06:24,108
And I was always amazed that a .22 long rimfire has a range.

940
01:06:24,208 –> 01:06:28,868
Of course, it’d have to be ideal, but it has a range of up to a mile and a half.

941
01:06:30,568 –> 01:06:37,768
A mile and a half away, a .22 can reach. A .22 hollow point can go to a mile and a half away. way.

942
01:06:38,268 –> 01:06:44,328
So, you know, imagine walking down the street and suddenly getting killed because

943
01:06:44,328 –> 01:06:50,048
some idiot a mile and a half away shot his 22 off in the air or shot and missed

944
01:06:50,048 –> 01:06:54,788
a squirrel in the tree and it came down and killed you.

945
01:06:55,248 –> 01:07:02,108
So warning shots, shooting guns in the air are not as fun as it may seem, it’s not a good ideal.

946
01:07:02,528 –> 01:07:07,108
It’s illegal most everywhere, so far as I know. And I’m,

947
01:07:08,274 –> 01:07:11,494
you could wind up hurting if not killing someone in doing so.

948
01:07:11,654 –> 01:07:17,994
So just as a sidebar, safety tip there, no warning shots, no shooting guns in the air, please.

949
01:07:18,814 –> 01:07:26,094
Well, that’s back to do not pull the trigger unless you intend to destroy your target, right?

950
01:07:26,194 –> 01:07:29,434
So if you’re shooting the gun in the air, you have no idea what the target is.

951
01:07:30,074 –> 01:07:34,574
Absolutely. Or what’s beyond any target you would be shooting at. That’s correct.

952
01:07:35,114 –> 01:07:41,534
So a last part, we’re almost done here, but the last thing that I wanted to

953
01:07:41,534 –> 01:07:46,394
talk about is cleaning your weapon and the safety around that.

954
01:07:47,714 –> 01:07:52,374
It’s my opinion that a clean weapon is a safe weapon, or at least a safer weapon.

955
01:07:52,634 –> 01:07:58,454
So I think cleaning a weapon, having a clean gun is the right thing to do and

956
01:07:58,454 –> 01:07:59,954
certainly a safe thing to do.

957
01:07:59,954 –> 01:08:06,694
It has to do with keeping that firearm in good working order and you know when

958
01:08:06,694 –> 01:08:10,634
you clean your firearm it gives you an opportunity a really good opportunity

959
01:08:10,634 –> 01:08:12,114
to get familiar with it too,

960
01:08:12,974 –> 01:08:19,314
and you know cleaning and having a clean firearm a clean weapon better ensures

961
01:08:19,314 –> 01:08:23,594
that when you do pull the trigger it actually works and goes bang when the time

962
01:08:23,594 –> 01:08:25,934
comes so there’s a lot of reasons.

963
01:08:26,834 –> 01:08:30,174
As to why you should clean your gun.

964
01:08:30,674 –> 01:08:34,234
When I was growing up and when I first started shooting, and I know when I got

965
01:08:34,234 –> 01:08:41,034
my first .22, which I think it was Christmas of when I was 13, a long time ago,

966
01:08:41,734 –> 01:08:46,174
I was taught, and it seemed like it was kind of an industry thing too,

967
01:08:46,294 –> 01:08:49,914
that you should come home and clean your weapon after every single time you

968
01:08:49,914 –> 01:08:52,594
shoot it, regardless of how many rounds you put through it.

969
01:08:53,385 –> 01:08:57,265
And so, you know, regardless of whether or not you follow that rule or not,

970
01:08:57,325 –> 01:08:59,865
the idea is that you should keep your firearm clean.

971
01:09:00,005 –> 01:09:05,625
And so I admit I own it. I don’t clean my guns every single time I come home from the range.

972
01:09:05,845 –> 01:09:11,425
You know, a lot of my firearms that I have, I know will continue to shoot for

973
01:09:11,425 –> 01:09:16,785
several, several hundred rounds before shutting down due to being dirty.

974
01:09:17,165 –> 01:09:21,025
With that being said, I don’t let them go indefinitely. I do keep them clean,

975
01:09:21,125 –> 01:09:26,025
especially ones that I carry, concealed carry, for personal defense reasons.

976
01:09:26,305 –> 01:09:32,365
But keeping your gun is part of keeping it being safe, in my mind.

977
01:09:33,365 –> 01:09:36,765
Yeah, and even if you don’t do a thorough cleaning, you should at least punch

978
01:09:36,765 –> 01:09:39,705
the bore, wipe it down, get the carbon off of it, right?

979
01:09:39,945 –> 01:09:43,645
Yeah. It’s just good for the gun. You don’t necessarily have to do a detailed

980
01:09:43,645 –> 01:09:44,745
cleaning after every shoot.

981
01:09:44,805 –> 01:09:49,265
But at a minimum, I keep a rag in my range bag.

982
01:09:49,865 –> 01:09:54,805
And before I put any of my weapons back into the case or, you know,

983
01:09:54,805 –> 01:09:58,985
the sleeve that I have it in, I wipe it down, you know, slide up,

984
01:09:59,025 –> 01:10:02,905
wipe it out, make sure it’s clear and then put it, put it away.

985
01:10:03,065 –> 01:10:06,925
Right. That’s at a minimum. You should be doing that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

986
01:10:07,585 –> 01:10:11,425
And, you know, as far as safe handling of the firearm, when you’re actually

987
01:10:11,425 –> 01:10:14,025
cleaning it is before you start to clean.

988
01:10:14,085 –> 01:10:19,445
And I know here recently I read or saw a story online, something about the fact

989
01:10:19,445 –> 01:10:23,965
a guy had shot himself or someone sitting around him nearby because he didn’t

990
01:10:23,965 –> 01:10:27,365
check the weapon before he went to clean it and pulled the trigger or something.

991
01:10:27,445 –> 01:10:31,265
But you need to ensure that that weapon is clear, unloaded.

992
01:10:31,265 –> 01:10:36,845
The cylinder’s empty if it’s a revolver the chamber’s empty if it’s a rifle

993
01:10:36,845 –> 01:10:41,505
the bolt back whatever the case may be the semi-automatic the semi-automatic

994
01:10:41,505 –> 01:10:46,305
rifle or pistols the magazines remove the bolts back the slides back you need

995
01:10:46,305 –> 01:10:49,605
to make sure that weapon is free and clear of ammunition.

996
01:10:50,684 –> 01:10:56,604
And I take it a step further, and I would suggest there’s actually three cases

997
01:10:56,604 –> 01:11:05,624
for this, but I recommend cleaning the firearm in a completely separate room for where your ammo is.

998
01:11:06,044 –> 01:11:10,604
Or if you clean in a different room, leave your ammo wherever it was, right?

999
01:11:10,864 –> 01:11:14,644
Don’t have the ammo even in the vicinity of where you’re cleaning that firearm.

1000
01:11:14,884 –> 01:11:19,944
You can’t use the firearm anyway when you’re cleaning it, so it’s not like you need the ammo.

1001
01:11:19,944 –> 01:11:23,084
Just do it in a separate room so i

1002
01:11:23,084 –> 01:11:26,164
think there’s three cases for separating ammo

1003
01:11:26,164 –> 01:11:29,084
as in you being in a totally different space

1004
01:11:29,084 –> 01:11:31,824
from where the ammo is again does it

1005
01:11:31,824 –> 01:11:37,164
seem like overkill yeah but with safety and firearms they’re not toys i argue

1006
01:11:37,164 –> 01:11:43,504
there is no overkill there is need for redundancy and there is no overkill i

1007
01:11:43,504 –> 01:11:47,584
would say that when you’re first get a firearm and you’re getting familiar with

1008
01:11:47,584 –> 01:11:49,644
it, there’s no reason to have ammo nearby.

1009
01:11:49,764 –> 01:11:52,804
Unless you’re at the range getting ready to shoot it and getting familiar with

1010
01:11:52,804 –> 01:11:55,124
shooting it, there’s no reason to have ammo nearby.

1011
01:11:56,424 –> 01:11:59,884
Don’t have ammo. Play with that gun. Follow the manual.

1012
01:12:00,604 –> 01:12:06,084
Make sure you’re getting some sense of how that weapon performs operationally.

1013
01:12:06,184 –> 01:12:09,664
When you’re cleaning that firearm, when you get home from shooting it the first

1014
01:12:09,664 –> 01:12:13,064
time, you should clean it just to help you further get familiar with it.

1015
01:12:13,104 –> 01:12:18,784
But again, Again, leave the ammo wherever the safe is or wherever you lock it all up at.

1016
01:12:19,224 –> 01:12:24,024
And then lastly, when you dry fire, there’s benefits to dry firing,

1017
01:12:24,144 –> 01:12:29,004
which we can talk about another time, but there’s benefits to dry fire practice with your firearms.

1018
01:12:29,124 –> 01:12:33,504
And you certainly shouldn’t have ammo in the same room where you’re dry firing

1019
01:12:33,504 –> 01:12:37,444
to eliminate any chance of there being an accident with live ammo.

1020
01:12:38,544 –> 01:12:41,364
One of the things and cleaning the weapon

1021
01:12:41,364 –> 01:12:44,544
is that people should be familiar with

1022
01:12:44,544 –> 01:12:47,264
the solvents right that they’re using you know

1023
01:12:47,264 –> 01:12:49,864
again just like your ammo that you’re using if you’re going to

1024
01:12:49,864 –> 01:12:54,904
clean your weapon familiar with the proper solvents to use right do your research

1025
01:12:54,904 –> 01:12:59,764
do what you can use on your weapon if it’s chrome plated or nickel plated whatever

1026
01:12:59,764 –> 01:13:03,824
it is that you’re doing and you got plastic grips you know make sure that whatever

1027
01:13:03,824 –> 01:13:08,144
you’re using to clean your weapon should be used to clean that particular weapon.

1028
01:13:08,804 –> 01:13:13,824
Just don’t, you know, I’m honest with you, again, back in the service,

1029
01:13:13,884 –> 01:13:16,644
we were playing weapons with soap and water, right?

1030
01:13:16,764 –> 01:13:21,184
But, you know, I’m oiling it down too, right? But that’s extreme.

1031
01:13:22,319 –> 01:13:27,239
So just become familiar with the proper cleaning tools for your particular weapon.

1032
01:13:27,919 –> 01:13:32,519
Yeah, that’s important. And I think on those same lines, I would extend safety

1033
01:13:32,519 –> 01:13:37,839
to include ventilation because we know a lot of solvents, to your point,

1034
01:13:37,899 –> 01:13:41,839
that are used to clean firearms are very caustic.

1035
01:13:42,199 –> 01:13:45,819
They can stink up the place. Those fumes are not good.

1036
01:13:45,819 –> 01:13:51,699
And so a lot of those cleaners and cleaner lubricant protectants,

1037
01:13:51,719 –> 01:14:00,459
CLPs as they call them, solvents, they’ll warn you to use only in well-ventilated areas.

1038
01:14:00,659 –> 01:14:03,559
But how many of us go outside to clean?

1039
01:14:03,879 –> 01:14:08,099
Well, we probably don’t. But you do need to be cognizant that some of that stuff

1040
01:14:08,099 –> 01:14:13,239
is pretty strong and has some pretty toxic fumes at times.

1041
01:14:13,239 –> 01:14:19,639
At the same time, there’s some alternatives that do not, but that’s a good point.

1042
01:14:19,719 –> 01:14:23,759
That all comes back to the safety elements of cleaning your firearm.

1043
01:14:24,539 –> 01:14:28,799
Yep, absolutely. You know, in the cleaning, I just thought about this too.

1044
01:14:30,199 –> 01:14:35,899
Lubricants. You see, I think we’ve seen folks come out, buy a weapon brand new.

1045
01:14:35,939 –> 01:14:40,839
It’s got the shipping grease on it, and they just go right into firing a weapon.

1046
01:14:40,839 –> 01:14:42,539
And I think it’s important that,

1047
01:14:42,559 –> 01:14:46,179
again, you would just make sure that your weapon’s lubricated properly.

1048
01:14:46,519 –> 01:14:55,499
I think if I was to see a malfunction in the range, I would say third to half

1049
01:14:55,499 –> 01:15:00,179
of it is probably because the weapon’s not well-maintained and mostly because it’s dry.

1050
01:15:01,668 –> 01:15:04,628
I think that’s important, right? So in cleaning your weapon and maintaining

1051
01:15:04,628 –> 01:15:08,268
your weapon, make sure that you have the proper lubricants on there.

1052
01:15:08,728 –> 01:15:12,748
I’m thinking back through the experiences that just comes up to mind.

1053
01:15:13,228 –> 01:15:19,688
No, absolutely. And that just plays into that part of why keeping a clean weapon

1054
01:15:19,688 –> 01:15:26,708
is important is because it does allow it to perform optimally in the way that it’s supposed to.

1055
01:15:27,008 –> 01:15:30,408
And lubricant certainly plays a big role into that.

1056
01:15:30,408 –> 01:15:33,248
That yep so yeah we’ve

1057
01:15:33,248 –> 01:15:36,828
talked about the rules we’ve talked about firing range

1058
01:15:36,828 –> 01:15:40,008
safety rules gun shop safety rules hunting safety

1059
01:15:40,008 –> 01:15:45,488
rules rules that even small children should be able to follow or be aware of

1060
01:15:45,488 –> 01:15:50,508
and what parents need to know more than likely and then you know the the importance

1061
01:15:50,508 –> 01:15:55,408
of cleaning and the safety around that i think it was a good discussion yeah

1062
01:15:55,408 –> 01:15:59,408
me too i i’m excited Excited that we finally got through the rest of this.

1063
01:15:59,528 –> 01:16:04,968
You know, it’s good that we covered in detail those first four because they are so important.

1064
01:16:05,128 –> 01:16:10,068
You know, again, I said it in the first podcast, the treat all guns as if they

1065
01:16:10,068 –> 01:16:11,268
were loaded at all times.

1066
01:16:11,308 –> 01:16:14,348
It just sets the precedence for everything else.

1067
01:16:14,408 –> 01:16:19,188
But it’s good to do a deep dive and understand that there are others that need

1068
01:16:19,188 –> 01:16:21,568
to be accounted for and that you should follow.

1069
01:16:22,028 –> 01:16:26,148
And that, you know, there’s a place for redundancy. there’s

1070
01:16:26,148 –> 01:16:29,048
a place for folks that aren’t supporters of guns

1071
01:16:29,048 –> 01:16:32,848
to be familiar with gun safety rules and

1072
01:16:32,848 –> 01:16:35,868
you know the importance of upkeep and keeping

1073
01:16:35,868 –> 01:16:39,688
your your firearms clean and maintained all plays

1074
01:16:39,688 –> 01:16:42,528
a role in safety but going back to what

1075
01:16:42,528 –> 01:16:46,528
you said or i should give credit to cooper is

1076
01:16:46,528 –> 01:16:49,748
that you know safety is ultimately what happens between

1077
01:16:49,748 –> 01:16:54,348
your two ears and i couldn’t agree more over that and i think that’s a great

1078
01:16:54,348 –> 01:16:58,888
note to end on yeah well thank you for having me Jim. I appreciate it Denis

1079
01:16:58,888 –> 01:17:04,148
i appreciate it uh thanks thanks for doing this again uh now that we now we

1080
01:17:04,148 –> 01:17:08,508
can say we’re finished up with gun safety finally at last and uh maybe we can

1081
01:17:08,508 –> 01:17:09,628
do something in the future.

1082
01:17:10,960 –> 01:17:32,075
Music.